I think everyone can agree that everyone on the Perfect Game list are very talented players with bright futures ahead. I also believe that Perfect Game is one of the best organizations for showcasing and evaluating players talent. That being said I think we can also agree that they can only evaluate players that they know about. There are some very talented players scattered throughout Maryland. One could argue that Calvert Hall is loaded with prospects which happens to be one of the best teams in the state,and no I'm not from Calvert Hall.
My point is that there is so much talent in this state you could have 50 players on that list and some would still argue about who are the best. Everyone has different opinions. I would be willing to bet there are some very good prospects that most of you have never heard of and would not rate them at all just because you have never seen them play. I think everyone should just congratulate these players as being SOME of the best players in the state and not be offended if your son or someone you know wasn't on the list.
Just my opinion.
Banditsbb
quote:Originally posted by banditsbb:
I think everyone can agree that everyone on the Perfect Game list are very talented players with bright futures ahead. I also believe that Perfect Game is one of the best organizations for showcasing and evaluating players talent. That being said I think we can also agree that they can only evaluate players that they know about. There are some very talented players scattered throughout Maryland. One could argue that Calvert Hall is loaded with prospects which happens to be one of the best teams in the state,and no I'm not from Calvert Hall.
My point is that there is so much talent in this state you could have 50 players on that list and some would still argue about who are the best. Everyone has different opinions. I would be willing to bet there are some very good prospects that most of you have never heard of and would not rate them at all just because you have never seen them play. I think everyone should just congratulate these players as being SOME of the best players in the state and not be offended if your son or someone you know wasn't on the list.
Just my opinion.
Banditsbb
banditsbb: Very well said.....
I would also agree with banditsbb...
However, I also believe there is some correlation between how many PG events you attend (read: money paid to PG) with how high your ranking is.
I highly doubt that if some stud went to ONLY ONE of their sanctioned events (meaning they know about him) he would be ranked nearly as high as a comparable kid that went to every possible event.
Let's face it - they're in it to make money and they wouldn't do too well if they had very few repeat customers. And repeat customers get "perks"..
just my thoughts...
However, I also believe there is some correlation between how many PG events you attend (read: money paid to PG) with how high your ranking is.
I highly doubt that if some stud went to ONLY ONE of their sanctioned events (meaning they know about him) he would be ranked nearly as high as a comparable kid that went to every possible event.
Let's face it - they're in it to make money and they wouldn't do too well if they had very few repeat customers. And repeat customers get "perks"..
just my thoughts...
baseballguyMD3 --
Regarding your "thoughts" ---- your hypothsis has some merit regarding the "pay to be seen" reference --- but if you look at the top 100 high school kids ranked -- they appear legit ---- I think as you work your way down the rankings some of the players noted would not have been recognized nor ranked if they had not participated in several PG events. In some cases, although a player attended multiple PG events his ranking did not elevate ---
Regarding your "thoughts" ---- your hypothsis has some merit regarding the "pay to be seen" reference --- but if you look at the top 100 high school kids ranked -- they appear legit ---- I think as you work your way down the rankings some of the players noted would not have been recognized nor ranked if they had not participated in several PG events. In some cases, although a player attended multiple PG events his ranking did not elevate ---
quote:Originally posted by Trepfan:
baseballguyMD3 --
Regarding your "thoughts" ---- your hypothsis has some merit regarding the "pay to be seen" reference --- but if you look at the top 100 high school kids ranked -- they appear legit ---- I think as you work your way down the rankings some of the players noted would not have been recognized nor ranked if they had not participated in several PG events. In some cases, although a player attended multiple PG events his ranking did not elevate ---
yea, but we are only talking about Maryland here.
If a certain pitcher from the WCAC produces similarly to what he has in past seasons and ends up as an honorable mention selection within his school league -- will the first and second team pitchers selected ahead of him be immediately promoted to major league rosters?
After all, the PG events he paid to attend has him ranked "really high".
banditsbb said it best when he points out that we should 'celebrate' the acccomplishments and recognition of all of the players from our state. Who is ranked and where is inconsequential. Tons of MD kids are going on to play in college, this may be the best overalll class so far!
After all, the PG events he paid to attend has him ranked "really high".
banditsbb said it best when he points out that we should 'celebrate' the acccomplishments and recognition of all of the players from our state. Who is ranked and where is inconsequential. Tons of MD kids are going on to play in college, this may be the best overalll class so far!
For one who has both worked with numerous recruiters and scouts, and has known many for years, let me start by saying all these ratings are biased to say the least. All of the recruiters and scouts I know realize this. One is only mentioned on certain sites if the pay to join. trust me the colleges and pros know who the players are out there. I applaud any group who tries to push our young men out there but really the truly great ones are already known. There really is not the need to "pimp" them out there.
Spike,
Part of this I agree with and part I don't. That is why you have to be really careful what showcases you attend. Many are there just to get your money plain and simple. Others like Perfect Game are very well respected by colleges (can't speak for scouts because I don't know any).
I believe this statement is very demeaning to a parent who takes their kid to a showcase. I also believe it carries no weight. I will use my sons area as an example since this area I'm familiar with. My son plays for a public school in Baltimore county. Although there are some very good county teams most are not. There are some excellent players in the county that will get no recognition because they will not be seen by anyone other then family and friends at High School games.
I will use my son as a example. I would be willing to bet that no one knows who he is on this site. Last February my son attended a Perfect Game State Showcase. It was his first showcase and he hit 86 on a stalker gun(age 15). Later that year he was pitching in a high school game and I noticed a parent from the other team gunning the pitchers (juggs gun). After the game he asked me if my son was the pitcher for our team. He told me he was throwing 89 mph in the 7th inning (had 14 k's that game). I can guarantee that nobody other than parents saw him pitch that day. Yet because of the Perfect Game Showcase we have recieved many questionnaires and some e-mails from colleges and coaches. We were also contacted by two out of state teams about pitching for them in the Perfect Game Tournament in Jupiter Florida in Oct. for last year. My son has also been to the Southern Maryland pitchers camp. If my son threw in the nineties you would probably be right and not need to go somewhere to be seen, but that isn't the case.
Here is a e-mail from a D-1 college in Maryland sent to us for our son. I will not show who it is from because I don't know if they would get mad at my son for showing it.
"Let me know when he starts throwing in games next fall and I would like to come see him throw. When he starts throwing in games you have to make sure there are some sort of pitch counts. We make sure all of our pitchers are on pitch counts, start at 50-60 pitches in late Feb. to a max of 120 in May. Personally I wouldn't let one of our pitchers go higher than 120. We gradually build up our pitchers from when they start throwing in mid-January to the end of our season in late May. Here is link to a website that looks at pitch counts and pitcher abuse at every Division I school in the country. http://boydsworld.com/data/2007_teams_pap.html
I've been to Perfect Game the last two falls. All the big-time players from all over the country are there.. There are like 20 fields at the complex and they have games going on at all the fields from morning to sunset. Talk to you soon!"
My son is a junior recovering from Tommy John surgery and one of his goals are to pitch in the P.G. Game in Florida next Oct. That is why the coach was talking about Perfect Game. IT seems this coach finds it worth his time to go all the way to Florida to watch players at Perfect Game.
I think in the end it's up to each parent to choose what's best for their child. Saying that because they pay to go to a camp or showcase is the only reason they are graded the way they are is uncalled for. Just if you choose to attend a camp or showcase do your homework. Sorry for the long post.
Banditsbb
quote:let me start by saying all these ratings are biased to say the least.
Part of this I agree with and part I don't. That is why you have to be really careful what showcases you attend. Many are there just to get your money plain and simple. Others like Perfect Game are very well respected by colleges (can't speak for scouts because I don't know any).
quote:There really is not the need to "pimp" them out there.
I believe this statement is very demeaning to a parent who takes their kid to a showcase. I also believe it carries no weight. I will use my sons area as an example since this area I'm familiar with. My son plays for a public school in Baltimore county. Although there are some very good county teams most are not. There are some excellent players in the county that will get no recognition because they will not be seen by anyone other then family and friends at High School games.
I will use my son as a example. I would be willing to bet that no one knows who he is on this site. Last February my son attended a Perfect Game State Showcase. It was his first showcase and he hit 86 on a stalker gun(age 15). Later that year he was pitching in a high school game and I noticed a parent from the other team gunning the pitchers (juggs gun). After the game he asked me if my son was the pitcher for our team. He told me he was throwing 89 mph in the 7th inning (had 14 k's that game). I can guarantee that nobody other than parents saw him pitch that day. Yet because of the Perfect Game Showcase we have recieved many questionnaires and some e-mails from colleges and coaches. We were also contacted by two out of state teams about pitching for them in the Perfect Game Tournament in Jupiter Florida in Oct. for last year. My son has also been to the Southern Maryland pitchers camp. If my son threw in the nineties you would probably be right and not need to go somewhere to be seen, but that isn't the case.
quote:trust me the colleges and pros know who the players are out there.
Here is a e-mail from a D-1 college in Maryland sent to us for our son. I will not show who it is from because I don't know if they would get mad at my son for showing it.
"Let me know when he starts throwing in games next fall and I would like to come see him throw. When he starts throwing in games you have to make sure there are some sort of pitch counts. We make sure all of our pitchers are on pitch counts, start at 50-60 pitches in late Feb. to a max of 120 in May. Personally I wouldn't let one of our pitchers go higher than 120. We gradually build up our pitchers from when they start throwing in mid-January to the end of our season in late May. Here is link to a website that looks at pitch counts and pitcher abuse at every Division I school in the country. http://boydsworld.com/data/2007_teams_pap.html
I've been to Perfect Game the last two falls. All the big-time players from all over the country are there.. There are like 20 fields at the complex and they have games going on at all the fields from morning to sunset. Talk to you soon!"
My son is a junior recovering from Tommy John surgery and one of his goals are to pitch in the P.G. Game in Florida next Oct. That is why the coach was talking about Perfect Game. IT seems this coach finds it worth his time to go all the way to Florida to watch players at Perfect Game.
I think in the end it's up to each parent to choose what's best for their child. Saying that because they pay to go to a camp or showcase is the only reason they are graded the way they are is uncalled for. Just if you choose to attend a camp or showcase do your homework. Sorry for the long post.
Banditsbb
quote:Originally posted by banditsbb:
Spike,quote:let me start by saying all these ratings are biased to say the least.
Part of this I agree with and part I don't. That is why you have to be really careful what showcases you attend. Many are there just to get your money plain and simple. Others like Perfect Game are very well respected by colleges (can't speak for scouts because I don't know any).
quote:There really is not the need to "pimp" them out there.
I believe this statement is very demeaning to a parent who takes their kid to a showcase. I also believe it carries no weight. I will use my sons area as an example since this area I'm familiar with. My son plays for a public school in Baltimore county. Although there are some very good county teams most are not. There are some excellent players in the county that will get no recognition because they will not be seen by anyone other then family and friends at High School games.
I will use my son as a example. I would be willing to bet that no one knows who he is on this site. Last February my son attended a Perfect Game State Showcase. It was his first showcase and he hit 86 on a stalker gun(age 15). Later that year he was pitching in a high school game and I noticed a parent from the other team gunning the pitchers (juggs gun). After the game he asked me if my son was the pitcher for our team. He told me he was throwing 89 mph in the 7th inning (had 14 k's that game). I can guarantee that nobody other than parents saw him pitch that day. Yet because of the Perfect Game Showcase we have recieved many questionnaires and some e-mails from colleges and coaches. We were also contacted by two out of state teams about pitching for them in the Perfect Game Tournament in Jupiter Florida in Oct. for last year. My son has also been to the Southern Maryland pitchers camp. If my son threw in the nineties you would probably be right and not need to go somewhere to be seen, but that isn't the case.
quote:trust me the colleges and pros know who the players are out there.
Here is a e-mail from a D-1 college in Maryland sent to us for our son. I will not show who it is from because I don't know if they would get mad at my son for showing it.
"Let me know when he starts throwing in games next fall and I would like to come see him throw. When he starts throwing in games you have to make sure there are some sort of pitch counts. We make sure all of our pitchers are on pitch counts, start at 50-60 pitches in late Feb. to a max of 120 in May. Personally I wouldn't let one of our pitchers go higher than 120. We gradually build up our pitchers from when they start throwing in mid-January to the end of our season in late May. Here is link to a website that looks at pitch counts and pitcher abuse at every Division I school in the country. http://boydsworld.com/data/2007_teams_pap.html
I've been to Perfect Game the last two falls. All the big-time players from all over the country are there.. There are like 20 fields at the complex and they have games going on at all the fields from morning to sunset. Talk to you soon!"
My son is a junior recovering from Tommy John surgery and one of his goals are to pitch in the P.G. Game in Florida next Oct. That is why the coach was talking about Perfect Game. IT seems this coach finds it worth his time to go all the way to Florida to watch players at Perfect Game.
I think in the end it's up to each parent to choose what's best for their child. Saying that because they pay to go to a camp or showcase is the only reason they are graded the way they are is uncalled for. Just if you choose to attend a camp or showcase do your homework. Sorry for the long post.
Banditsbb
Hey Bandidsbb I think you are over reacting to these comments. I see that you have a Junior so this means you are still new to this. I think you better put your seat belt on and get ready for the ride.
Recruiting is heartless. Even the coaches will tell you that. As far as your letter it is nice but the only letter that will matter is the signed letter of intent.
For every event your son attends he will get anywhere from 10 to 50 letters. Some will be hand written and some will look like they just went to your son but come next Fall when it matters you will be lucky if many of these coaches remember who he is. Don't take it personally they just move on to the next thing. Sorry but it is just the way it is.
Here is some advice for you.
1) Stop looking at the guns. Each brand says something else.
2) He better develop a 2nd and 3rd pitch that he can throw confidently.
3) Forget High School. It doesn't matter what he does there just have fun and play the best he can. All county, all state, all whatever. All doesn't mean anything in the big picture.
4) Find a good summer team. - Good competition.
5) Find him the best Fall Showcase team he can find to compliment the PG Showcases. You need both.
6) List 5 to 10 schools that he wants to go to. Ones that are realistic. Have HIM contact the coach - not you. Short email telling them that he is interested in that school and where he will be playing (or phone call). Most College coaches will make an effort to come see him. Be truthful. if you throw 88 don't say 90.
7)Visit the schools and take the tour. When you are done ask your son if he could see himself going to that school if he gets hurt and can't play baseball.
It sounds like your son will have many options. be patient.
One more thing. As far as the letter goes you better check out the 120 pitches even if he works his way up. That is too much for a 16 or 17 year old.
I hope what I wrote was helpful.
I think you mistook my words. I agree the parent should be out there doing what ever he can to get the kids exposed. The pimping I was talking bout are the numerous give me $500 or so and I will get you kid seen. Granted PG and a few others are very respectable but there are some out the that I feel are scams. As for high school you are right. Kids in this area really dont get seen in hs, it is all about the right fit in a summer team. You are also correct that Baltimore County as a whole is not the best. Your high school coach should be out getting those extra games and tourny's, scrimmages with the best he can find. Sorry I did not make make statement clear.
Mdbaseballcoach,
Not over reacting at all and hope it doesn't seem that way. I also am not unfamiliar with the recruiting process. The point of the post had nothing to do with my son, and only tried to use him as a example. IF he plays college ball or not will be up to him. My point is that there are different avenue's that players take to reach their goals. For someone to say that all players grades are biased to me is uncalled for.
Very good advice that I totally agree with, and no I don't speak for him. I have coached long enough to know that parents are one thing the coach doesn't want to deal with. I would imagine that parents have caused many players to not be recruited.
Those pitch counts are for college teams. The reason the coach gave me that link was because my son threw 148 pitches in the game before he tore his ucl (tore it in next game). The reason for the high pitch count was the 14 k's but also 7 walks. I was very upset and told the pitching coach so. Many coaches advise the parents to just sit back and watch the game and let the coaches coach. As a parent you don't want to interfere because you don't want to cause your son problems. So I agree with your statement that coaches want to hear from the player and not the parent. Just be sure that the coach is someone you want your son to play for and that the school you choose is the best fit for your son. If they have talent they will also have options.
Banditsbb
quote:Hey Banditsbb I think you are over reacting to these comments. I see that you have a Junior so this means you are still new to this. I think you better put your seat belt on and get ready for the ride.
Not over reacting at all and hope it doesn't seem that way. I also am not unfamiliar with the recruiting process. The point of the post had nothing to do with my son, and only tried to use him as a example. IF he plays college ball or not will be up to him. My point is that there are different avenue's that players take to reach their goals. For someone to say that all players grades are biased to me is uncalled for.
quote:Here is some advice for you. 1-7
Very good advice that I totally agree with, and no I don't speak for him. I have coached long enough to know that parents are one thing the coach doesn't want to deal with. I would imagine that parents have caused many players to not be recruited.
quote:One more thing. As far as the letter goes you better check out the 120 pitches even if he works his way up. That is too much for a 16 or 17 year old.
Those pitch counts are for college teams. The reason the coach gave me that link was because my son threw 148 pitches in the game before he tore his ucl (tore it in next game). The reason for the high pitch count was the 14 k's but also 7 walks. I was very upset and told the pitching coach so. Many coaches advise the parents to just sit back and watch the game and let the coaches coach. As a parent you don't want to interfere because you don't want to cause your son problems. So I agree with your statement that coaches want to hear from the player and not the parent. Just be sure that the coach is someone you want your son to play for and that the school you choose is the best fit for your son. If they have talent they will also have options.
Banditsbb
Spike,
I totally agree with your last post. There are very many showcases that will tell you anything and lead the players on. Thats why you better do your homework or just chock it up as a family vacation.
Banditsbb
I totally agree with your last post. There are very many showcases that will tell you anything and lead the players on. Thats why you better do your homework or just chock it up as a family vacation.
Banditsbb
Enough with the love fest already! Al...can you step in here before the heavy breathing starts?
Just kidding...good discussion. 1-7 were really good and accurate as all get out!
Just kidding...good discussion. 1-7 were really good and accurate as all get out!
quote:Originally posted by banditsbb:
Mdbaseballcoach,
quote:Hey Banditsbb I think you are over reacting to these comments. I see that you have a Junior so this means you are still new to this. I think you better put your seat belt on and get ready for the ride.
Not over reacting at all and hope it doesn't seem that way. I also am not unfamiliar with the recruiting process. The point of the post had nothing to do with my son, and only tried to use him as a example. IF he plays college ball or not will be up to him. My point is that there are different avenue's that players take to reach their goals. For someone to say that all players grades are biased to me is uncalled for.
quote:Here is some advice for you. 1-7
Very good advice that I totally agree with, and no I don't speak for him. I have coached long enough to know that parents are one thing the coach doesn't want to deal with. I would imagine that parents have caused many players to not be recruited.
quote:One more thing. As far as the letter goes you better check out the 120 pitches even if he works his way up. That is too much for a 16 or 17 year old.
Those pitch counts are for college teams. The reason the coach gave me that link was because my son threw 148 pitches in the game before he tore his ucl (tore it in next game). The reason for the high pitch count was the 14 k's but also 7 walks. I was very upset and told the pitching coach so. Many coaches advise the parents to just sit back and watch the game and let the coaches coach. As a parent you don't want to interfere because you don't want to cause your son problems. So I agree with your statement that coaches want to hear from the player and not the parent. Just be sure that the coach is someone you want your son to play for and that the school you choose is the best fit for your son. If they have talent they will also have options.
Banditsbb
Banditsbb - 14 Ks is no reason to let a player at 16 or 17 or 18 for that matter go 148 pitches. The majors won't let their guys go that much why should a 16 year old who is still growing.
I am sure you learned from this experience and feel terrible for not stepping in. Yes a coach doesn't want to hear from parents because most of the time the parent thinks that little Johnny should get more playing time.
At 16 you need to watch the pitch counts and step in if you have to. Tell your son that he has to say no. Ask for a meeting before the season starts to discuss a limit to how many pitches your son will throw. No matter who is winning the game.
Your high school coach may get the win but your son will end up never playing again.
I know that some on this board will say that going 148 pitches is OK...but that has never been and will never be my philosophy.
Pitching is a tearing down process. The elevated mound causes loss of strength in the legs. In the later innings, once a pitcher loses his legs, he immediately induces more stress on his shoulder and elbow.
Even a pie thrower (an 18 year old lefty who throws 75-78), who most people say "can throw forever", needs to come out at some point.
Another factor we consider during the summer is how much a pitcher threw for his high school team in the spring.
Pitching is a tearing down process. The elevated mound causes loss of strength in the legs. In the later innings, once a pitcher loses his legs, he immediately induces more stress on his shoulder and elbow.
Even a pie thrower (an 18 year old lefty who throws 75-78), who most people say "can throw forever", needs to come out at some point.
Another factor we consider during the summer is how much a pitcher threw for his high school team in the spring.