Well-done Tom. You've done an outstanding job of validating my point. You have snookered yourself on the golf plane analysis so you've resorted to your usual tactic of throwing out an ivory towers worth of useless verbiage at your conundrum to distract attention away from your faux pa.
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as hardy points out, that is how most people conceptualize swinging at a baseball
No Tom. Hardy's pretty clear on what he says notwithstanding your ever present desire to tell us what he means.
Hardy:
"The actions of the arms in the one -plane downswing is very similar to that of a baseball swing .That is, at the top of the backswing, your left arm is across your chest with your right behind you, folded with the elbow pointing slightly behind you. Now if you look at the great power hitters in baseball. you'll see that from this position, they turn their shoulders and upper torso as hard and fast as they can toward the coming pitch.
"The torso is like an inner of centripetal force whose movement activates the bat, which recieves the outer or centrifugal effect when this force and its effects are applied correctly, the bat comes thru with crashing speed to meet the ball."
"Its the same principle in the one plane golf swing. You dont throw your arms and club at the ball; rather they get thrown around by the turn of the shoulders and torso."
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that is the same way it makes sense to many people when they think about how they should take a baseball hack. but the mlb pattern is different which is why traditionally you here players say;
Keep telling us what everybody else means Tom. We'll be sure not to pull back the curtain and actually look.
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so when Barry says he swings down, that is an important feel for him regardless of what slaught shows him on video.
You forgot to let everyone else in on the rest of the story. He went to Arod and showed him how he doesn't swing down. This wasn't about feel or cues. It was about what they thought they were doing vs. what they actually did (what actually happens in a real swing Tom) quantified via video.
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the golf experience shows that there are 2 patterns that work via the kinetic link in golf. two very different patterns that should not be confused or mixed.
i think it is most likely that there are also 2 patterns in the hitting swing.
Tom, this is progress. This is a new admission for you.
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i am as certain as possible there is not just one, which appears to be the pcr belief.
I don't know what "pcr belief" means. You throw that around in a pejorative way for reason we are both familiar with. It's a poor approach for you to take. PCR has always been an analysis tool for me to break down amateur hitters and compare them to elite hitters. It's not a set of drills or a teaching method. I don't think it was meant to be that.
My belief is that there are hitters like Bonds and Sheffield and there are guys like Juston Upton, Beltran, Thomas, Burrell, A. Ramirez, Hunter.... They all do some things very much the same in terms of how they unload the swing. What happens during the unloading phase seems pretty universal to me. Those things are foundational and are a must teach. There is commonality in the loading sequence of these hitters with some variance. The pre-load rhythm is often different between hitters. I don't discourage that rhythm in young hitters or their loading pattern in general. I will try to help them optimize it or suggest alternatives that might fit them better. My approach is very much influenced by Englishbey.
You may not like ***** and you may have legitimate reason for that dislike. But the hitter most associated with ***** is R.Stock and he is no doubt an elite level baseball player with an elite level swing. Stock senior attributes his son's success in the box to what he learned from *****. Any discussion or assertion beyond that is absurd on its face.
