Replies sorted oldest to newest
I get your point and in general I agree, but consider the runs scored by TCU after NCST had built an 8-1 lead.... eventually winning in 10... Crazy as it seems at this level - one wonders if any lead is truly safe, an error here or there and all of a sudden momentum swings the other way with a 7 spot... Who would've thunk it in that NCST game - even though TCU was the home team! And I don't have a dog in that fight - it was just the game that was on.
slotty,
I'm going to respectfully disagree. This is a one game playoff to advance to super regionals and Miami is up by 10 early in the game. In my opinion that is not enough of a cushion and too early to call it bush league. Possibly 15 runs in the 7th, then I think you may have a point if this happened later in the game. JMO.
Great run by Columbia and they represented the Ivy League well. I had my suspicions they were going to make a mini-run at the Regionals as this was one of the most talented and well rounded Ivy teams I've seen since I began following it. The biggest challenge is depth & experience when compared to an ACC team. Cornell ran into the same thing in 2012, we just ran out of bats, arms, and baserunners.
Slotty's post and the two blowouts yesterday raise questions about appropriate behavior in blowouts.
Miami-Columbia showed one approach (I didn't watch more than a couple cutaways into that game so I'm relying on Slotty's info for how the game was managed): the winning coach who won't take his foot off the gas pedal because no lead is ever truly safe and he wants his players to maintain focus to prepare for tougher games ahead. The double steal might have been about the coach looking forward, not looking backward.
Vanderbilt-Radford showed another approach: the winning coach who declares victory early and turns the late innings into a celebration. I felt bad for Radford yesterday as they received a historic beatdown (I know a couple of their players) and had to stand around as the game was repeatedly interrupted for ceremonial substitutions (e.g., Carson Fulmer being put in to left field for one play for the sole purpose of being substituted for and receiving a standing O from the fans and hugs from teammates.
If you're the losing team, would you rather the victors showed you the respect of continuing to compete as equals? Or would you prefer they eased up, even if it means turning you into a backdrop for an extended victory celebration?
Either way, the victors are subject to criticism.
And in both cases, the losers can't complain much because the answer would always be, "If you don't like it, play better."
Other thoughts?
Great question Swampboy. I much prefer the keep the pedal on the gas mentality & approach. Columbia came back to score 3 in the 7th (?) when the game was already lost and Miami put their foot down again to score some more. I respect both teams when the loser doesn't give up and neither does the winner.
In the case of Vanderbilt, their little celebration would have pissed me off. If I was on the mound, I would have let them know I wasn't happy and this isn't a tea party.
As always, JMO.
I've always been a fan of Vandrebilt... the school itself, the great baseball program, and Corbin. Nonetheless, I thought the lovefest and forced curtain calls last night were way over the top. You're Vanderbilt... you're supposed to win the regional that you're hosting. Fuller and Swanson milked every second of the proceedings fairly shamelessly... it went on ad nauseum... A procession of on field hugs one by one x2... all this while the game was still in progress. I know they've accomplished a lot in the past three seasons, but this was downright Jeteresque pomp and circumstance... a little too precious for me.
Between the self-adulation, the black uni's with white pinstripes, and the red white and blue uni's ... it gets hard to root for these guys.
Control the things you can control. You can't control what the other team does overall. So I'm with Swampboy on this one - if you don't like or want the other teams to run the score up or turn it into a circus like Vanderbilt did then play well enough they can't act that way. Nobody is going to tell me how to run my team because I'm going to do what's in my team's best interest. That being said we are not going to act like a bunch of clowns running around but if I feel we need insurance runs then we are going to get insurance runs. Let's say my bullpen is gassed and I'm left with a freshmen who hasn't pitched much this year - do I lay off the scoring and hope he can close it out or do I put up a few runs to help him out?
Look there are games when it's obvious you are the superior team and when that is the case then keep the game respectable. This is when bush league can be used to describe teams stealing when up. But when you're facing a good team then you got a job to do until the last out.
I was just venting.
I understand it's all a matter of perspective--if you're the team that's up by more than 2 grand-slams, it's your prerogative to run up the score any way you can. And if you're the losing team it's understandable if you take exception to it.
I guess the defenders here would have no problem with a team up by 10 runs bunting for a base hit?
Anyway I was glad that the Columbia pitcher subsequently threw over the heads of a couple of Miami batters to let them know that their approach wasn't appreciated. They didn't like that, but as the old saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
I would humbly suggest that in the playoffs (or in a playoff chase,) nothing is off the table.
I'd say it was bush-lite, and the HC can expect to take some (semi-justified) criticism, but it was only a little over the top.
Two different items here...
1) The spectacle of stopping down play to make a ceremony of pulling players off the field, as Vanderbilt did. The home crowd appreciated it I'm sure, Radford not as much. I think honoring outgoing players in this way can be fine... Just felt like Fulmer and Swanson milked it and it became way overblown.
2) Running up the score. As someone said, Miami's double steal up by 10 was pretty early in the game... I agree that teams can't risk letting off the gas too early.
But here's the thing in both cases... if you're Miami and Vandy, you need to be thinking about what's next... winning a Super Regional series. If you are embarrassing your opponent, as both schools did, you risk retaliation. One angry beanball, frustrated overly aggressive slide, etc... and you might find yourself without the services of a key player for the next round. Few players would intentionally try to injure someone, but things can happen very easily In that scenario.
JMO but I did not like either move and would bet upon reflection both the Vandy and Miami coaches if they had been on other side of field would have been pissed. Up double digits and executing a double steal reasonable chance the next batter gets drilled and things could get out of hand quickly.
As far as Vandy they would never have done it up 2-1 in the 9th so don't do it up by a couple of touchdowns. Plenty of time after for home team to salute their heros.
Don't have a problem with Miami's steal....ONLY because it was so early. Vandy was classless....and I'm shocked that Radford's players and coaches didn't make it known mroe that they thought the same thing. Running a player in for a play is one thing...perfectly legal and I'm fine with it....but taking 2 or 3 minutes to sub in a player for the sole purpose of hugs, high fives, waving to the crowd, etc is way too much.
With the majority here. Have watched enough college baseball over the years to see some pretty impressive (and a handful of astounding) comebacks; so, I agree that playing hard throughout a playoff game is acceptable.
Meanwhile, if I'd been in Radford's dugout, I'd have wanted to know why Senior Day's pre-game ceremony hadn't sufficed as an appropriate dose of accolades and showboating. "Chirping" would have been an exceedingly polite description of what one might have overheard from me as the team's Head Coach...and, yes, one of my pitcher's carefully selected, late inning pitches might have found its way a bit too far inside, leaving a few stitch marks on one of the opposing party-goer's hips.
I was just venting.
I understand it's all a matter of perspective--if you're the team that's up by more than 2 grand-slams, it's your prerogative to run up the score any way you can. And if you're the losing team it's understandable if you take exception to it.
I guess the defenders here would have no problem with a team up by 10 runs bunting for a base hit?
Anyway I was glad that the Columbia pitcher subsequently threw over the heads of a couple of Miami batters to let them know that their approach wasn't appreciated. They didn't like that, but as the old saying goes, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."
Trust me I understand your venting because I've been on the bad end of losses like this. It sucks and you can't do a thing about it except take it. I have no problem with what the Columbia pitcher did (except for the pitches near the head) by throwing at them. At the HS level I won't let my guys do this because it could go horribly wrong quickly. Still say it's something you control by winning or playing close.
I've been on the winning side of those games too and if it is an opponent I'm truly superior to I'll slow things down. If it's a team that is traditionally good and we got this lead then we are going all out.
Whitey Herzog was confronted in a post game interview about running with a big lead. His response: We'll stop running if they promise not to hit any homers.
If you are embarrassing your opponent, as both schools did, you risk retaliation. One angry beanball, frustrated overly aggressive slide, etc... and you might find yourself without the services of a key player for the next round. Few players would intentionally try to injure someone, but things can happen very easily In that scenario.
I agree, I was shocked that a pitch or two didn't end up in some ribs last night. The opposing teams down by 15-20 runs had little to lose and should be shown some respect. Save the celebrations for after the game.
FL shut out FL A&M 19-0. No grandstanding ocurred but it was rather sad but when you have run out of arms this can happen.
Its the NCAAs fault, regionals have no 10 run rule.
