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Expanded roster, and scholarship exemptions must come with this!
scholarship exemptions likely only help the big schools. Smaller don't have the budgets.
Give these organizations time to figure it out. It's a bigger problem- as some have pointed out - for those who are graduating, those who cant afford a graduate year.
I love this decision but (IMO) it’s is going to create a lot of disappointment because lots of these kids won’t be asked to come back because of incoming freshmen.
A lot of these kids can't afford or don't want to spend the money to come back, and it goes down the line I'm sure. My understanding is everyone gets a year of eligibility back. My son is committed to a school with 10 seniors (2 are grad students).
Anyway, until there is more clarity not much I can worry about now.
hshuler posted:I love this decision but (IMO) it’s is going to create a lot of disappointment because lots of these kids won’t be asked to come back because of incoming freshmen.
I didn't think about this. I guess the coaches might trim from each class to get rosters in line quickly. It could be brutal for the tail of the rosters.
... and I didn't think about underclassmen getting their year back as well. In my mind, it would be a consideration just for seniors. But, if true and all get another year, this could have more of an impact on recruiting than expected. It still seems the fair and right thing to do... but may certainly make life interesting for the next few incoming classes.
I sure wouldn't want to be committed to those schools with a huge recruiting class. That will be cut throat...
https://www.perfectgame.org/ra...uiting/Rankings.aspx
Already signed....how do they deal with that?
Verbals only....YIKES!!
Belts going to get tight for 22s
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nycdad posted:scholarship exemptions likely only help the big schools. Smaller don't have the budgets.
The decisions are based on the big programs. Always follow the money.
Wonder if they will grant an additional red shirt year for incoming freshman, a traditional red shirt year just in case and a "corona" red shirt year.
cabbagedad posted:... and I didn't think about underclassmen getting their year back as well. In my mind, it would be a consideration just for seniors. But, if true and all get another year, this could have more of an impact on recruiting than expected. It still seems the fair and right thing to do... but may certainly make life interesting for the next few incoming classes.
Why would it be only seniors? Everyone has been affected. The way I look at this: there will be more talented players than ever on each roster, at each level. Guys may need to transfer down a level, depending on what’s coming in behind them. But, at least guys will have that option (possibly). The top guys from top programs will be lost to the draft as usual. Other division 1 programs may become more competitive with higher RPI programs. It could make for a very fun to watch season. Domino effect for each level.
Eoker, it’s always cut throat. Coach will keep the players that he thinks will get the most wins. If you signed a LOI, it won’t matter. He’ll let ya know your services are no longer needed. “We’re going in a different direction.” Etc.
RoadRunner posted:Eoker, it’s always cut throat. Coach will keep the players that he thinks will get the most wins. If you signed a LOI, it won’t matter. He’ll let ya know your services are no longer needed. “We’re going in a different direction.” Etc.
Just more knives and more throats next year.
RoadRunner posted:Eoker, it’s always cut throat. Coach will keep the players that he thinks will get the most wins. If you signed a LOI, it won’t matter. He’ll let ya know your services are no longer needed. “We’re going in a different direction.” Etc.
It is, but this goes back to what's often said here, do your research about the program you're going into.Obviously you can't research this, but IMO this is not the same situation as just going in and knowing you have to compete.
I don don't know what the answer is. I do this this is more likely to affect 2021s. Lots of seniors will already have jobs lined up.
Of course I'm biased having a 2020 and 2022, but would be nice to allow 2020s and 2021s a one time transfer under certain conditions, I'm not sure exactly what those conditions would be, depends what the NCAA ends up doing.
Probably a stupid question, but the the statement from the NCAA specifies eligibility relief for D1 athletes. Any guess as to why it isn't "D1 and D2"?
Reading the NCAA website, it appears that the cancellation may affect some D2 athletes as well. Or am I reading it wrong?
"Division II student-athletes must complete their four seasons of competition within the first 10 semesters or 15 quarters of full-time enrollment."
Yep definitely cut throat. Didn't say it wasn't or wouldn't be. But I sure wouldn't want to be at a Vandy or Ark with 19-20 coming in each of the next 2 years classes. Ark loves their JUCO transfers, so does Tx A&M. A lot more guys fighting for roster spots there. The guys are going D1, it's always going to be cut throat and every year, they bring in more people trying to take your job.
It sucks for 2020s, even more for 2021 because they don’t have to honor those. Wondering if more HS will go in the draft that had planned to do college. If the push the draft, do the 2020s even get a choice? It’s a mess.
Curious how it'll work out for DIII guys going to grad school, like my son. He's eligible for a medical redshirt for this season, to boot, having just had wrist surgery. He's been accepted to several schools already, though no word yet from the one he applied to where he thinks he'd have the best chance to play.
jacjacatk posted:Curious how it'll work out for DIII guys going to grad school, like my son. He's eligible for a medical redshirt for this season, to boot, having just had wrist surgery. He's been accepted to several schools already, though no word yet from the one he applied to where he thinks he'd have the best chance to play.
Are you thinking he would get 2 additional years? That would be cool but I’d be surprised if they grant two for one messed up year.
He didn't play as a freshman, and is under the impression he has a year of eligibility because of that. If that's correct, the question becomes whether this "amnesty" and/or the medical redshirt/hardship waiver for this year would get him into the 6-years to play 4 crowd (he'd presumably have one year, no matter what).
He's in a team meeting about the season right now, we'll see if that provides any info.
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I would expect 2 years but no expert
It sounds to me like he had a “developmental” RS and medical/corona in 2 separate years? If so, I would think he would get 2 more years.
baseballhs posted:It sucks for 2020s, even more for 2021 because they don’t have to honor those. Wondering if more HS will go in the draft that had planned to do college. If the push the draft, do the 2020s even get a choice? It’s a mess.
I think this is right. It's really the worse for 2021's at this point. 2020's don't have it great but they have signed LOI's and have been accepted to their schools. The HS 2021 classes just might be very small relative to normal classes depending on the schools. 2020's though will have to play through a lot of players and some legit men who might be as old as 23 vs some kids who are 17! That is a mismatch. I think our sons just need to embrace the challenge. This is one heck of a life lesson for any Junior in HS to senior in college.
IDK, this concerns PO's more than PP's to me as they are more likely to get a decent scholarship. That said be it underclass or upperclass how many, unless really being looked at for the draft, are going to come back at 15k+ to play baseball. I love my kid but at that point he'd have to secure his own funding.
it’s an extra year to raise stock if you aren’t a top pick.
As a uncommitted 2021 RHP my heart is broken as all of the sacrifices and pain that I have endured to get to this point may have been for nothing. I have been in contact with a few mid-low D1 coaches and was excited for the summer to get more exposure but I bet most showcases will be canceled like PG has done. It was not easy to gain 8mph and 35lbs in 6 months but I was carried by my dream of playing D1 ball. I don’t know what is going to happen. Any insight?
11.7 scholarships going to get increased greatly for 2021 season as well as the 27 person limit and 25 % deal.
wonder what it will end up being? maybe they make it like football and Basketball.
RHP21 posted:As a uncommitted 2021 RHP my heart is broken as all of the sacrifices and pain that I have endured to get to this point may have been for nothing. I have been in contact with a few mid-low D1 coaches and was excited for the summer to get more exposure but I bet most showcases will be canceled like PG has done. It was not easy to gain 8mph and 35lbs in 6 months but I was carried by my dream of playing D1 ball. I don’t know what is going to happen. Any insight?
All of your 2021 competition is in the same boat, so you are not disadvantaged. Keep working hard, let this play out, and take advantage of appropriate recruiting opportunities when they become available. Things will work out, coaches will need a full roster of 2021s just like they do for each class.
RHP21 posted:As a uncommitted 2021 RHP my heart is broken as all of the sacrifices and pain that I have endured to get to this point may have been for nothing. I have been in contact with a few mid-low D1 coaches and was excited for the summer to get more exposure but I bet most showcases will be canceled like PG has done. It was not easy to gain 8mph and 35lbs in 6 months but I was carried by my dream of playing D1 ball. I don’t know what is going to happen. Any insight?
Don’t stop fighting. Don’t stop believing. What I’ve seen over the years as a travel coach and a parent is the players who want it and are legitimate prospects get what they want if they’re willing to fight for it.
Don’t stop fighting. Don’t stop believing. What I’ve seen over the years as a travel coach and a parent is the players who want it and are legitimate prospects get what they want if they’re willing to fight for it.
⬆️ ⏫ ⬆️ ⏫ ⬆️ The truth
wouldn't they just follow the "nonmedical hardship waiver" format? Give a blanket approval based on the circumstance, but still hold true the five year participation limit so that they don't have 24-25 year olds on their roster? maybe if you have previously redshirt (whether medical or not), then you most likely do not qualify. I guess we will just wait and see what they come up with.
I think you will see more guys try to draft out of high school now than deal with this mess and the extra competition and reduced playing opportunity and time. If that is the case or happens.
Why a blanket extra year for all 4 classes?
It isn’t like the MLB isn’t going to draft this year. I think the seniors came back for a reason. The didn't draft or didn't like their slot. They shouldn’t need another year. Juniors hoping to draft this year still have a chance to draft this or go back and draft after their senior. Sophomores, aren't affected. Freshman, aren't affected. Red Shirt Seniors, definitely not affected.
Yes, losing the remaining of the season sucks, BUT everyone got the benefit of fall ball and prep and spring season prep. Weight room, nutrition, pitching/batting coach....
How many team roster spots have seniors on them? Typically not many. And they typically finish school/baseball and try to draft and/or more likely finish up and get a job. You’re going to create a 4 year problem for the small number of seniors who also had an opportunity to draft last year but chose not to. There are still or would be MLB workouts, etc.....
I don’t get it.... help me understand this a bit better?
I agree with Eokerholm. If this were to truly play out, it would adversely impact more kids than it would help. But reality it, there are fewer non-RS seniors, some will get drafted and others will just move on with their lives. For those wanting the extra year (and can afford it) they’ll have to go the grad school route, and getting a roster spot won’t be guaranteed, despite the extra year of eligibility.
Every underclassman granted the extra year, will go through the same cycle, once seniors.
I think it’s a nice gesture that won’t have a material impact. Maybe CBI can create a list of college seniors, who have already used their 4 years, and we can see how it plays out when next year’s rosters are set.
Probably impacts those who wanted to get a fresh new start by transferring the most, as there will be a few more kids in that pool.
RHP21 posted:As a uncommitted 2021 RHP my heart is broken as all of the sacrifices and pain that I have endured to get to this point may have been for nothing. I have been in contact with a few mid-low D1 coaches and was excited for the summer to get more exposure but I bet most showcases will be canceled like PG has done. It was not easy to gain 8mph and 35lbs in 6 months but I was carried by my dream of playing D1 ball. I don’t know what is going to happen. Any insight?
Yeah, probably what you should do regardless of the Coronavirus, JUCO then DI.
So my son is a junior (2021) at a D1 school in the MAC. Assuming he graduates next year, I'm assuming he could come back as a grad player, in 2022 He currently receives a partial scholarship (like most) and the balance is covered with academic money. I'm guessing that if he comes back, he would need to come up with the $ for difference between his athletic scholarship, including the increase cost of grad classes, as his undergrad scholarship would be done? (right?) Lots of time to think about it. Just curious if anyone has a thought on this. Wondering how much financial sense does it make to come back for another year for baseball when not really pursuing a grad degree. He has a slight possibility of being drafted in late rounds RHP 93-95 FB 6'3" 225 lbs.
CTbballDad posted:I agree with Eokerholm. If this were to truly play out, it would adversely impact more kids than it would help. But reality it, there are fewer non-RS seniors, some will get drafted and others will just move on with their lives. For those wanting the extra year (and can afford it) they’ll have to go the grad school route, and getting a roster spot won’t be guaranteed, despite the extra year of eligibility.
Every underclassman granted the extra year, will go through the same cycle, once seniors.
I think it’s a nice gesture that won’t have a material impact. Maybe CBI can create a list of college seniors, who have already used their 4 years, and we can see how it plays out when next year’s rosters are set.
Probably impacts those who wanted to get a fresh new start by transferring the most, as there will be a few more kids in that pool.
Keep in mind a redshirt freshman is likely to be twenty-three heading to short season. There are very few outside pitchers who just found their 95 mph fastball.
Has there been an announcement that D3 players will get an extra year of eligibility, too? In that world, there aren't scholarship limits to contend with, and not many players who are thinking seriously about the draft.
Selfishly, as the parent of 2020 HS player going to a D3 next year, I'm wondering what the real impact of this will be. The selfish side of me doesn't love the idea of Jr. having up to ~25% more players to compete with for playing time than he would have otherwise, all older and more experienced than he is. I'm not arguing against an extra year of eligibility; just pondering what it will mean in practice.
If there is a recession, that could be a game changer. Staying in school to get a graduate degree or just pick up an additional major suddenly would look a lot more attractive. As I recall, grad school admissions ticked up considerably during the 2008 recession. Many (most?) members of the college class of 2020 already have jobs or grad school lined up. But some of those jobs could disappear if the economy takes a significant downturn.
And small colleges without many graduate study options may not be able to retain many 5th year players. So does that mean Tufts and other universities will be welcoming graduates from the Middleburys and Amhersts of the world?
So happy for players getting another year that lost this spring season; anxious about my son's situation as a 2021, not just for baseball but for getting into college, as well. SATs canceled, too. Who knows if all the APs he's been taking will have the tests on time. There is a big academic component to this as well. His school has closed in MD and they have ZERO online courses or any capability to grade because of lack of training and legal issues. What does that do to the academic year? The kid has worked so F'in hard to get smarter, stronger, gain weight and gain velo. Spring HS season is probably toast. I just keep telling him head down and keep working - now the season starts at Showball in Texas in early June. Fingers crossed. As a parent, we've tried to invest smart and time out his opportunities so he can show his best stuff. My son is fortunate in that we have the means to do this, but this is what the "Best laid plans of mice and men" really feels like. Tough, but not tougher than all the families that are suffering and will suffer a wide range of hardships across the next year. This just sucks for everyone, but I am happy the NCAA did what it did even if it complicates recruiting and rosters and scholarships. If it's meant to be, it's meant to be, I guess. As a Dad and husband, it's a bitter pill to swallow when my wife and I felt we were in such a great place and now...who the hell knows? I always told my son you might work harder than you've ever worked in your life and not get what you want. That's life. I guess its the work and discipline and effort that will last longer than this virus and what comes along the next few years. Stay safe everyone. Peace.
jonsmith posted:So my son is a junior (2021) at a D1 school in the MAC. Assuming he graduates next year, I'm assuming he could come back as a grad player, in 2022 He currently receives a partial scholarship (like most) and the balance is covered with academic money. I'm guessing that if he comes back, he would need to come up with the $ for difference between his athletic scholarship, including the increase cost of grad classes, as his undergrad scholarship would be done? (right?) Lots of time to think about it. Just curious if anyone has a thought on this. Wondering how much financial sense does it make to come back for another year for baseball when not really pursuing a grad degree. He has a slight possibility of being drafted in late rounds RHP 93-95 FB 6'3" 225 lbs.
Dang, with those measurables, you don’t think he had a chance to be drafted this year? Not to rub it in, but losing his junior year probably hurt him pretty hard
Chico Escuela posted:Has there been an announcement that D3 players will get an extra year of eligibility, too? In that world, there aren't scholarship limits to contend with, and not many players who are thinking seriously about the draft.
Yes, DIII extended a year of eligibility to everyone in a spring sport. I'd think this is mostly symbolic, since a lot of those schools don't really have 5th year players, though you can always plan for grad school early.
Eokerholm posted:I think you will see more guys try to draft out of high school now than deal with this mess and the extra competition and reduced playing opportunity and time. If that is the case or happens.
Why a blanket extra year for all 4 classes?
It isn’t like the MLB isn’t going to draft this year. I think the seniors came back for a reason. The didn't draft or didn't like their slot. They shouldn’t need another year. Juniors hoping to draft this year still have a chance to draft this or go back and draft after their senior. Sophomores, aren't affected. Freshman, aren't affected. Red Shirt Seniors, definitely not affected.
Yes, losing the remaining of the season sucks, BUT everyone got the benefit of fall ball and prep and spring season prep. Weight room, nutrition, pitching/batting coach....
How many team roster spots have seniors on them? Typically not many. And they typically finish school/baseball and try to draft and/or more likely finish up and get a job. You’re going to create a 4 year problem for the small number of seniors who also had an opportunity to draft last year but chose not to. There are still or would be MLB workouts, etc.....
I don’t get it.... help me understand this a bit better?
blanket extra year is due to an existing clause in the eligibility handbook which states nonmedical hardship waivers will be considered for players who are unable to participate with no more than participation in 30% of a teams scheduled spring games due to "circumstances beyond the student-athletes control"...I would think they (NCAA) would just use this as support for the approval given a player still remained within its "four out of five years" clause. My sons a JUCO soph, so not sure how this would impact him, but the season postponement definitely has thrown a wrench in the seasons plans.
Eligibility to play another year isn't the same as required to get a roster spot. Every single player, incoming and returning, will have to prove he deserves a spot next year. I figure that the returning seniors will boost the squad numbers in the fall and cuts will have to be made by spring. Most budgets can't absorb more than normal roster count, so I don't expect the cap to be increased.
I don't think the limits will go up because the AD's will not agree to it. They cannot afford it or want to afford it, even P5's. Not saying P5's can't but won't want to. They would have to buy new uniforms and the extra players would make the costs go up. Plus they really don't need them. You can't get 35 players playing time so you sure wouldn't be able to get 40 playing time. As someone suggested, they may give you the ability to travel with 30 or all 35 but that is about all. I think for four years they will expand the scholarship numbers because the SEC is required to keep everyone for their full time on scholarship so unless they make a provision they cannot cut them and their scholarship unless the player on scholarship chooses to leave. But who knows. it may change tomorrow or Tuesday, you get the point.
This is what maturity looks like.
This was fairly close to the conversation going on between my son and his other senior teammates when I hung out with a few of them last week after his surgery. A few are actually more actively exploring graduate school choices that might allow them to play (and my son already was), but realistically it's a lot more likely, especially for DIII guys, to just move on with their lives.
Some of son's teammates are likely to stay in MN, where townball is a big deal still, so there are also amateur opportunities to keep playing.
I know there are lots of conversations going on all at D3 schools about the extra year, plus 1 MBA are being looked at, adding a 2nd major and blowing it up fast, adding a minor and so forth. I know some that at are considering transfers etc.
For 2019 this could not have worked out any better. He had about 12 or so innings out of the bullpen as a true freshman and was set to make his debut as a weekend starter in what would have been yesterday's series finale. With the new 2020 draft rules he would've been a draft eligible sophomore - and now he'll be a draft eligible freshman next season. Assuming he doesn't get drafted and remains a contributor on the team he'll be able to milk a year or two of grad school out of the situation at the very least.
That being said, it's not pretty for everybody - in fact it's only going to get uglier, not just for the guys who were in their last year of eligibility, but redshirt juniors, early grads, and older guys on the roster. Even if the scholarship limit were bumped from 11.7, who is funding this? How are 50 guys going to fit on a roster? Schools who were not fully funded to begin with? Guys who are free to transfer as grad transfers?
Truth is that the seniors who are not potential pros or key contributors are not going to be welcomed back. And it sucks, but baseball was never in the cards moving forward and they likely need to start thinking about life without baseball. Unless I had a very specific role on the team and grad school was a legitimate option I would likely be walking away as well. I know two of the seniors on our team have already informed everybody they won't be coming back. They are starters, but not pro prospects and would rather die of coronavirus than spend another summer living with a host family playing in a summer league halfway across the country.
The only way I see this working is if the NCAA says all incoming freshmen must redshirt, the same way freshmen had to sit out years ago. But there is still the scholarship issue.
I can’t understand why redshirting all freshmen is the only option? If that were in play, I’m guessing most kids who have a draft option go, whether it’s the round they wanted or not, they would really consider it. If you say most seniors will leave, there is no reason to redshirt all the freshmen. If they were crazy pro options, they would have gone as juniors unless there was an injury.
son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.
oh another complication is this is housing time of year, apartments are being rented, new roommate groups established, kids being sent home and kids not knowing if or who is coming back next year makes it even more of Shit show then it typically is. Certainly not a major item but just adds to the fun...
PABaseball posted:
The only way I see this working is if the NCAA says all incoming freshmen must redshirt, the same way freshmen had to sit out years ago. But there is still the scholarship issue.
And then do what with 2021's when its there time, Redshirt them too? It would just keep rolling forward that way as you are just building up a backlog of players unless I misunderstand what you mean. What is the situation you are referencing from years ago where this happened? Would love to read up on that.
Gunner Mack Jr. posted:PABaseball posted:
The only way I see this working is if the NCAA says all incoming freshmen must redshirt, the same way freshmen had to sit out years ago. But there is still the scholarship issue.
And then do what with 2021's when its there time, Redshirt them too? It would just keep rolling forward that way as you are just building up a backlog of players unless I misunderstand what you mean. What is the situation you are referencing from years ago where this happened? Would love to read up on that.
Used to be freshman could not play college athletics, only practice. 1950’s/60’s.
if you know the actual date this changed, you are older than me!
phillyinNJ posted:son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.
How does that work with JUCO's? I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level?
Ok, so I went through each of the PG Top 25 schools for the 2020 Recruiting class's rosters and counted the exisiting roster spots that are Senior or RS-Seniors.
Average across the top 25 schools is only 3.64. I would bet if I went to the top 100 it would get down closer to 3.0
- So you're screwing with programs and the next 4 years of baseball for players and recruits for 3-4 guys that could have drafted as Juniors - if they were good or healthy enough.
- They've have 3+ years to prove their worth and develop their craft.
- They could still do a showcase and/or combine or something for the MLB draft to make up for the shorten season for those Seniors (RS and regular).
- This year's Juniors can still draft (in showcase/combine or not) and/or return for their normal Senior Year. So they're not affected.
- Sophomores and Freshman are/were not affected either . Those that got to play got some reps, those that didn't, didn't - but EVERYONE across ALL 4-5 CLASSES got the benefit of education, nutrition, strength training, fall ball and prep, spring ball prep, and the 15-17 games that were played this season.
- They still got the last 8 months of instruction and work with a pitching coach, hitting coach, batting coach and head coach.
- This year was not lost or not valueable.
Most of the seniors should have been planing for a job and/or graduate school by now as their primary or back up plan knowing their time was going to be up.
Why make such a mess of all of this? Move the Draft to the end of summer (so Juniors can draft if they want, or return to school.....and give them the summer to showcase and combine. No need to mess with ALL classes and the next 4 years of baseball, programs, recruiting, etc.
Giving them another year of eligibility doesn't guarantee them a roster spot either. There are cuts every year that are made.
Not everyone is on scholarship and for some schools that barely helps, so coming up with another year's worth of tuition is an additional hardship on players/families, for guys that if they were good enough, would/could/should have drafted already and were planning on it for a better slot this year or just moving on.
For example. When we sat down with Coach O'Connor at UVA on 11/1, if my son would have gotten their last arm slot, he told us he was practically out of money. So if he got any money it would only be 25%. Even after 25% and being out of state, across 4 years of school (at UVA you have to graduate in 4) that would be over $135,000 in loans.
So now a senior at UVA has to go to graduate school for their 5th year of eligibility. Now they'll get 2 degrees on the school and their dime now given time to graduate from grad school too, if they red shirted.
I like the summer draft idea posted online and the showcase/combine to give the scouts and guys time to show their stuff, be seen and draft before the Juniors have to return to campus.
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My so so school has 8 SR or R-SR on the current roster. Big impact here.
Agreed for your program, however, if they move draft to August before school starts they all will have a chance to showcase/combine and then decide and move on and not incur another year of school or delay the real world if they don’t draft...
And with just 3 months before Omaha and draft, I would have hoped they had back up plans in place...
Nothing is guaranteed in life but death and taxes. No one expects to get laid off, divorced, or cancer. Life happens....
Eokerholm posted:
Nothing is guaranteed in life but death and taxes. No one expects to get laid off, divorced, or cancer. Life happens...
Yes, this is correct and also applies to incoming players, no matter the age/year. NCAA is following their established rules. I’m sorry this has happened to all involved. But players all have choices. They all need to learn to compete, sooner or later, in baseball and in life. College coaches want to win. Be ready to help your coach win. If this is too “scary” for you, then you are probably not at the right level. Coronavirus or no coronavirus. I’m sorry if this sounds harsh. That is not my intention.
May be seniors only, according to a recent Kendall Rogers tweet
I have a D3 Freshman and a 2021 HS coming off an injury and hoping to get recruited. He was on track prior to injury and rehabbed and is back stronger than ever. Life is interesting around the house to say the least.
I would think those that have a previous redshirt (medical or nonmedical) wouldn't receive another year, would they? giving them 6 total years? will be interesting to see what the final specifics are on this once the dust settles.
Eokerholm posted:Ok, so I went through each of the PG Top 25 schools for the 2020 Recruiting class's rosters and counted the exisiting roster spots that are Senior or RS-Seniors.
Average across the top 25 schools is only 3.64. I would bet if I went to the top 100 it would get down closer to 3.0
Why do you think the average would decrease if you expanded? I actually would guess the # of seniors and rs-seniors increases at mid-major and lower D1s. Those rosters often have a lot of juco transfers, redshirts, and undraftable upperclassmen. My 2020 is headed to one such school, and they had maybe 11 this season (no idea yet how many desire to return). I heard from another mid-major D1 with 7 seniors that 5 are hoping to return.
I was just guessing because I didn’t want to count all 100 or check other conferences. Buy dayum....still doesn’t make sense to me. I still think this is just a senior thing and not everyone. Just because they’re eligible doesn’t mean they’ll get a spot.
I’m sure and hope it will all work out
d-mac posted:phillyinNJ posted:son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.
How does that work with JUCO's? I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level?
JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances.
adbono posted:d-mac posted:phillyinNJ posted:son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.
How does that work with JUCO's? I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level?
JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances.
As the CCCAA in CA isn't governed by the national Juco's, all the California Juco's are still in the waiting game. Season has not been canceled, but merely postponed. This is good in that hope for this season still remains (albeit diminishing daily), but bad in that there has been no official ruling on status of players and whether they will also be given a "do-over". Gotta believe they eventually will. At least my sophomore pitcher surely hopes so.
For any who might be interested, we're trying to keep our clients and subscribers updated on new developments through our weekly email newsletter, our Informed Athlete Facebook page, and our Twitter account, @InformedAthlete.
NCAA Division II has already given clear guidance to their member schools that any spring sport athlete who had their season cancelled due to COVID-19 can have another season of eligibility. (I've been shown a copy of what Division II sent out to each school.)
I haven't seen guidance from NCAA Division III yet that is as clear and detailed as Division II.
And, Division I has not finalized their guidance on this issue yet. They're still seeking input from the D1 conferences across the country, or least they were as of yesterday morning.
Finally, I was a guest on a podcast this week in which I and host Geoff Rottmayer talked about the impact of this situation on college athletes - not just in baseball but for all spring sports - at the two and four-year level, as well as on high school recruits. You can find the podcast here: https://baseballawakening.podbean.com/
latebloomer21 posted:adbono posted:d-mac posted:phillyinNJ posted:son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.
How does that work with JUCO's? I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level?
JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances.
As the CCCAA in CA isn't governed by the national Juco's, all the California Juco's are still in the waiting game. Season has not been canceled, but merely postponed. This is good in that hope for this season still remains (albeit diminishing daily), but bad in that there has been no official ruling on status of players and whether they will also be given a "do-over". Gotta believe they eventually will. At least my sophomore pitcher surely hopes so.
Season is now cancelled. Everyone gets their year back (CCCAA).
Rick at Informed Athlete posted:...
NCAA Division II has already given clear guidance to their member schools that any spring sport athlete who had their season cancelled due to COVID-19 can have another season of eligibility. (I've been shown a copy of what Division II sent out to each school.)
...
Apparently DII just changed their minds, and only Seniors will get another year of eligibility.
I can't see any way this is fair...
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LHP's Roady posted:latebloomer21 posted:adbono posted:d-mac posted:phillyinNJ posted:son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.
How does that work with JUCO's? I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level?
JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances.
As the CCCAA in CA isn't governed by the national Juco's, all the California Juco's are still in the waiting game. Season has not been canceled, but merely postponed. This is good in that hope for this season still remains (albeit diminishing daily), but bad in that there has been no official ruling on status of players and whether they will also be given a "do-over". Gotta believe they eventually will. At least my sophomore pitcher surely hopes so.
Season is now cancelled. Everyone gets their year back (CCCAA).
I hope you are right, but its not showing on their website nor their twitter feed.
Rick at Informed Athlete posted:For any who might be interested, we're trying to keep our clients and subscribers updated on new developments through our weekly email newsletter, our Informed Athlete Facebook page, and our Twitter account, @InformedAthlete.
NCAA Division II has already given clear guidance to their member schools that any spring sport athlete who had their season cancelled due to COVID-19 can have another season of eligibility. (I've been shown a copy of what Division II sent out to each school.)
I haven't seen guidance from NCAA Division III yet that is as clear and detailed as Division II.
And, Division I has not finalized their guidance on this issue yet. They're still seeking input from the D1 conferences across the country, or least they were as of yesterday morning.
Finally, I was a guest on a podcast this week in which I and host Geoff Rottmayer talked about the impact of this situation on college athletes - not just in baseball but for all spring sports - at the two and four-year level, as well as on high school recruits. You can find the podcast here: https://baseballawakening.podbean.com/
Thank you for this post and for the link to the podcast. I listened to it and learned something that specifically applies to my son’s situation. Would not have known it otherwise and it is helpful to know now as opposed to later.
T_Thomas, see the answer I just posted to your question in the other thread.
The CCCAA Twitter account is now showing through a link to their website that all spring sport seasons are cancelled and that student-athletes will have their season of competition restored.
The NCAA has not yet determined whether they will be revising any of their rules regarding transfers from two-year colleges.
adbono posted:d-mac posted:phillyinNJ posted:son just received the official email from his AD concerning the season cancellation at his JUCO...he will retain his soph status, but now season ending will only make it that much more difficult in the recruiting process...looks like recruiting will be turned to a virtual event as well.
How does that work with JUCO's? I assume all Sophomore's have to transfer out due to being done with their hours but get an extra year at the next level?
JuCo sophs will have the option to come back for a 3rd year if they choose to. At my sons school a couple are considering doing that b/c they are coming off injuries, are just now healthy, and don’t yet have a four year school to go to. Obviously there are academic challenges that go along with spending 3 years at a JuCo and I wouldn’t recommend that anyone do that under normal circumstances.
My son is looking elsewhere...he retained his soph eligibility and graduates with his AS in may, so as long as he can find a place to play and fits academically, he will be moving to a four year this fall.
So do they come back as a redshirt or their current class?
My son, who is committed to a Patriot League team got a call from the RC Friday letting him know none of the Seniors will return because they all have jobs. It was a relief to hear it and was what we suspected. The school prides itself on graduates having jobs before leaving school. This was one of the things that drew us to the school. That and the high starting salaries for most grads!
Kimb27 posted:My son, who is committed to a Patriot League team got a call from the RC Friday letting him know none of the Seniors will return because they all have jobs. It was a relief to hear it and was what we suspected. The school prides itself on graduates having jobs before leaving school. This was one of the things that drew us to the school. That and the high starting salaries for most grads!
That is good news (for your son and for the seniors). But keep in mind: Given the state of the economy, some of those job offers may be withdrawn between now and this summer. During the 2008 recession, grad school enrollments grew quite a bit. This may or may not affect your son's future college (and I hope it doesn't), but I expect some graduating seniors may find returning to school looks more attractive than it might have even a month ago.
Chico you may be right. But, grad school app deadlines have passed I think. So, that could be a problem, right?
Kimb27 posted:Chico you may be right. But, grad school app deadlines have passed I think. So, that could be a problem, right?
In most cases, I would think that's true. But there are options such as waiting to get one's bachelor's degree and enrolling in the fall to work on a second major or a minor, and then starting grad school in the spring semester. Or some programs might make space in a master's program for a good student who was suddenly jobless.
I'm not trying to be alarmist. Whatever happens, I assume your son will enter college this fall expecting to have to compete for roster space, and whether he is competing with any 5th-year seniors is beyond his control anyhow. My son is also starting college in 2020. I have told him he may be playing fall ball with some 23-year-olds that he didn't expect to see on the field. He told me it was no big deal--which is exactly what he ought to say (even if his old man is a little bit concerned).
c2019 posted:So do they come back as a redshirt or their current class?
I’m guessing they would use the redshirt term. A player has been referenced in the past by redshirt (eligibility year) since his academic year may be different.
However if a student is in his third year of academic attendance but on track to graduate he’s just called a junior athletically.
Eokerholm posted:Agreed for your program, however, if they move draft to August before school starts they all will have a chance to showcase/combine and then decide and move on and not incur another year of school or delay the real world if they don’t draft...
And with just 3 months before Omaha and draft, I would have hoped they had back up plans in place...
Nothing is guaranteed in life but death and taxes. No one expects to get laid off, divorced, or cancer. Life happens....
Food for thought.
https://www.baseballamerica.co...ft-signing-deadline/
If they uphold 30 day signing period, August draft might not be feasible.
Domino effect.
Does anyone know if, as we move forward, the 2020 season will have existed when looking back, eg for career stats, player bio, etc?
Smitty28 posted:Does anyone know if, as we move forward, the 2020 season will have existed when looking back, eg for career stats, player bio, etc?
Interesting thought.
Why wouldn’t it, ABs, R, OPS, Slugging, IP, K, ERA, WHIP why would that not count?
Smitty28 posted:Does anyone know if, as we move forward, the 2020 season will have existed when looking back, eg for career stats, player bio, etc?
Why wouldn't it? I just looked at my kid's page and it shows career stats including 2020.
Well one reason why it may or may not count is because it can affect career stats and record books. What normally happens to a players stats/record book from a partial year played, injured, then gets a medical RS? I do not know.
I just spoke to a current D1 player in the American Athletic Conference. His coaches are telling him there is a 70% chance that NCAA doesn’t give an extra year of eligibility to any D1 players. 30% chance for seniors only. Since MLB has already announced a draft of only 5-10 rounds D1 coaches already know that they will have more juniors returning than anticipated. The only decision that won’t result in roster chaos is for NCAA not to give any players an extra year. So my money is on that.
In that case, my suggestion is that any D1 baseball player (and any other D1 spring sport athlete) had better be contacting their school and conference SAAC representatives (Student-Athlete Advisory Council) to do all they can through social media to let their voices be heard before the vote on Monday.
Check out Twitter for a lengthy tweet from TCU baseball senior Haylen Green posted last evening as an example.
Rick at Informed Athlete posted:In that case, my suggestion is that any D1 baseball player (and any other D1 spring sport athlete) had better be contacting their school and conference SAAC representatives (Student-Athlete Advisory Council) to do all they can through social media to let their voices be heard before the vote on Monday.
Check out Twitter for a lengthy tweet from TCU baseball senior Haylen Green posted last evening as an example.
What do you think they will do with Hardship Redshirts Rick? Will these guys still be able to apply for them or will they try to dissolve that clause this year? Looking through the SEC teams almost every pitcher on every team except may 3-4 per team is eligible.
adbono posted:I just spoke to a current D1 player in the American Athletic Conference. His coaches are telling him there is a 70% chance that NCAA doesn’t give an extra year of eligibility to any D1 players. 30% chance for seniors only. Since MLB has already announced a draft of only 5-10 rounds D1 coaches already know that they will have more juniors returning than anticipated. The only decision that won’t result in roster chaos is for NCAA not to give any players an extra year. So my money is on that.
Players need to band via social media, create a petition, run it up to their representatives and start a class action suit against the NCAA and MLB.
The legal group that lead the lawsuit against the NCAA would probably love to have this case.
Rick at Informed Athlete posted:In that case, my suggestion is that any D1 baseball player (and any other D1 spring sport athlete) had better be contacting their school and conference SAAC representatives (Student-Athlete Advisory Council) to do all they can through social media to let their voices be heard before the vote on Monday.
Check out Twitter for a lengthy tweet from TCU baseball senior Haylen Green posted last evening as an example.
And what kid couldn't write that this year? My hs senior got 2 games. No prom, likely no graduation. Now many will get no freshman year either. It sucks. For everyone. No one else is getting a redo on their businesses, jobs, etc. This was a disaster, but everyone is being affected. If everyone gets another year, the only one that really get screwed are the incoming freshmen because they get to lose two years.
baseballhs posted:Rick at Informed Athlete posted:In that case, my suggestion is that any D1 baseball player (and any other D1 spring sport athlete) had better be contacting their school and conference SAAC representatives (Student-Athlete Advisory Council) to do all they can through social media to let their voices be heard before the vote on Monday.
Check out Twitter for a lengthy tweet from TCU baseball senior Haylen Green posted last evening as an example.
And what kid couldn't write that this year? My hs senior got 2 games. No prom, likely no graduation. Now many will get no freshman year either. It sucks. For everyone. No one else is getting a redo on their businesses, jobs, etc. This was a disaster, but everyone is being affected. If everyone gets another year, the only one that really get screwed are the incoming freshmen because they get to lose two years.
Difficult to compare College and high school eligibility.
Regarding hardship redshirts for athletes that meet the "normal" requirements for a hardship waiver due to injury or illness, I would certainly think that athletes will still be apply to those. I can't imagine the NCAA would take away an opportunity to use a waiver that's been "on the books" for many years.
I screen shotted an excerpt from the 3/20/20 information posted on the NCAA website. Based on what this says, I feel like NCAA is gonna defer the tough decisions to individual schools (maybe conferences). I am remaining hopeful that the NCAA will allow SA, no matter what age/year the opportunity to compete for a roster spot. The best players have earned that right. The incoming freshman that would have been drafted in other 6th round will compete for a spot against a junior that might have been drafted in late rounds. Sucks for everyone. But what would suck worse, is not even getting a chance to compete. 
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Rick at Informed Athlete posted:Regarding hardship redshirts for athletes that meet the "normal" requirements for a hardship waiver due to injury or illness, I would certainly think that athletes will still be apply to those. I can't imagine the NCAA would take away an opportunity to use a waiver that's been "on the books" for many years.
Question for you. What do you think the denominator will be for spring SA? The number of games the baseball team played, or the number of games that were scheduled? Or is it a specific set number for each division?
RoadRunner posted:I screen shotted an excerpt from the 3/20/20 information posted on the NCAA website. Based on what this says, I feel like NCAA is gonna defer the tough decisions to individual schools (maybe conferences). I am remaining hopeful that the NCAA will allow SA, no matter what age/year the opportunity to compete for a roster spot. The best players have earned that right. The incoming freshman that would have been drafted in other 6th round will compete for a spot against a junior that might have been drafted in late rounds. Sucks for everyone. But what would suck worse, is not even getting a chance to compete.
Yeah, sure, NCAA makes decision to give everyone another year of eligibility, then coaches have to come in and clean up the mess.
I heard it could go either way, I hope they vote not to give anyone another year of eligibility, because it just creates a very, very difficult situation and a lot of folks are gonna be pissed off at the coaches.
I believe in college over the draft, for most freshman, but if your son really wants to play professional ball and a team offers an opportunity, take it, make them pay for school or remainder. Because the opportunity may not ever come up again. Same for juniors, if you really want to go pro, money shouldn't be your priority.
JMO
Here's a link to an article in the Register on this and specifically related to baseball. Most of you may have understood this before, but it became much more clear to me after I read this. I think you can read up to 10 stories for free, so paywall shouldn't be an issue.
Iowamom23 posted:Here's a link to an article in the Register on this and specifically related to baseball. Most of you may have understood this before, but it became much more clear to me after I read this. I think you can read up to 10 stories for free, so paywall shouldn't be an issue.
Nice article and thank you for posting. I am not an expert, so I don’t understand how this would cost schools more $? I realize that certain conferences have their own rules about so called guaranteed scholarships, which they manage to work around every other non COVID 19 season. Granting the waiver within the current framework seems possible to me. Would there be more cuts? For sure. Would the P5 possibly have to adjust their so called guaranteed scholarships (which aren’t a guarantee anyhow), for a time? Maybe.
TPM posted:RoadRunner posted:I screen shotted an excerpt from the 3/20/20 information posted on the NCAA website. Based on what this says, I feel like NCAA is gonna defer the tough decisions to individual schools (maybe conferences). I am remaining hopeful that the NCAA will allow SA, no matter what age/year the opportunity to compete for a roster spot. The best players have earned that right. The incoming freshman that would have been drafted in other 6th round will compete for a spot against a junior that might have been drafted in late rounds. Sucks for everyone. But what would suck worse, is not even getting a chance to compete.
Yeah, sure, NCAA makes decision to give everyone another year of eligibility, then coaches have to come in and clean up the mess.
I heard it could go either way, I hope they vote not to give anyone another year of eligibility, because it just creates a very, very difficult situation and a lot of folks are gonna be pissed off at the coaches.
I believe in college over the draft, for most freshman, but if your son really wants to play professional ball and a team offers an opportunity, take it, make them pay for school or remainder. Because the opportunity may not ever come up again. Same for juniors, if you really want to go pro, money shouldn't be your priority.
JMO
If I remember correctly, your son is a coach? Perhaps you would feel differently about having an opportunity to compete if he was a player right now and not a coach? Maybe not. My son would love to be a HC someday. And yes it would be difficult for the coaches. But in the end they will all still be coaches and getting paid. They don’t have a 4 season limit. Nothing taken away from them, unless they perform poorly.
RoadRunner posted:TPM posted:RoadRunner posted:I screen shotted an excerpt from the 3/20/20 information posted on the NCAA website. Based on what this says, I feel like NCAA is gonna defer the tough decisions to individual schools (maybe conferences). I am remaining hopeful that the NCAA will allow SA, no matter what age/year the opportunity to compete for a roster spot. The best players have earned that right. The incoming freshman that would have been drafted in other 6th round will compete for a spot against a junior that might have been drafted in late rounds. Sucks for everyone. But what would suck worse, is not even getting a chance to compete.
Yeah, sure, NCAA makes decision to give everyone another year of eligibility, then coaches have to come in and clean up the mess.
I heard it could go either way, I hope they vote not to give anyone another year of eligibility, because it just creates a very, very difficult situation and a lot of folks are gonna be pissed off at the coaches.
I believe in college over the draft, for most freshman, but if your son really wants to play professional ball and a team offers an opportunity, take it, make them pay for school or remainder. Because the opportunity may not ever come up again. Same for juniors, if you really want to go pro, money shouldn't be your priority.
JMO
If I remember correctly, your son is a coach? Perhaps you would feel differently about having an opportunity to compete if he was a player right now and not a coach? Maybe not. My son would love to be a HC someday. And yes it would be difficult for the coaches. But in the end they will all still be coaches and getting paid. They don’t have a 4 season limit. Nothing taken away from them, unless they perform poorly.
2000 people have died as of today from this deadly virus and more to come. Thats killing me inside.
Yes,I feel terrible for the players just as I feel terrible for the coaches that also busted their rear ends getting their guys ready to compete. Endless hours. It sux for sure for everyone. Everyone.
But losing a year of eligibility for any sport, isn't the end of the world right now. Not with what's happening now.
Schools have made good on their scholarship commitments.
In the end, with or without an extra year, your son will get what he came to school for, his degree.
TPM wrote"
"But losing a year of eligibility for any sport, isn't the end of the world right now. Not with what's happening now...In the end, with or without an extra year, your son will get what he came to school for, his degree."
That's all that matters! Stay safe, folks!
TPM posted:RoadRunner posted:I screen shotted an excerpt from the 3/20/20 information posted on the NCAA website. Based on what this says, I feel like NCAA is gonna defer the tough decisions to individual schools (maybe conferences). I am remaining hopeful that the NCAA will allow SA, no matter what age/year the opportunity to compete for a roster spot. The best players have earned that right. The incoming freshman that would have been drafted in other 6th round will compete for a spot against a junior that might have been drafted in late rounds. Sucks for everyone. But what would suck worse, is not even getting a chance to compete.
Yeah, sure, NCAA makes decision to give everyone another year of eligibility, then coaches have to come in and clean up the mess.
I heard it could go either way, I hope they vote not to give anyone another year of eligibility, because it just creates a very, very difficult situation and a lot of folks are gonna be pissed off at the coaches.
I believe in college over the draft, for most freshman, but if your son really wants to play professional ball and a team offers an opportunity, take it, make them pay for school or remainder. Because the opportunity may not ever come up again. Same for juniors, if you really want to go pro, money shouldn't be your priority.
JMO
It's a business with human supply chain (Indentured).
Coaches understand people are always pissed off, will make the appropriate decisions for the team and their own survival.
They will cut some players and redshirt many or players will transfer.
Heller and the author are acting as though all D1 schools fully fund 11.7 scholarships. Not even close to realistic. Imagine what is going to happen to athletic funding when football stadiums are empty this fall. That is a very real possibility considering how quickly schools pulled the trigger pushing kids out the door at the start of this. They don’t want to be viewed as being a Petrie dish and helping to spread this disease. Frankly, how many of us are going to be chomping at the bit to get into a stadium any time soon?
The NCAA should just focus on the only thing that matters, and that is addressing the eligibility extension of current NCAA players impacted by this year’s NCAA decision to stop competition. The incoming freshmen have not done anything to be impacted, they still have 5 years of eligibility when they hit the door. Yes, the MLB draft decision throws a big wrinkle into things, but that isn’t something that should drive roster size or scholarship changes. Seniors who were on scholarship were not robbed of their final semester of scholarship, they received it. Extending eligibility is going to create a larger pool of players due to the reduced MLB draft and there will be more cuts, but you can’t tell me coaches can’t handle this. They do it every year.
collegebaseballrecruitingguide posted:Heller and the author are acting as though all D1 schools fully fund 11.7 scholarships. Not even close to realistic. Imagine what is going to happen to athletic funding when football stadiums are empty this fall. That is a very real possibility considering how quickly schools pulled the trigger pushing kids out the door at the start of this. They don’t want to be viewed as being a Petrie dish and helping to spread this disease. Frankly, how many of us are going to be chomping at the bit to get into a stadium any time soon?
The NCAA should just focus on the only thing that matters, and that is addressing the eligibility extension of current NCAA players impacted by this year’s NCAA decision to stop competition. The incoming freshmen have not done anything to be impacted, they still have 5 years of eligibility when they hit the door. Yes, the MLB draft decision throws a big wrinkle into things, but that isn’t something that should drive roster size or scholarship changes. Seniors who were on scholarship were not robbed of their final semester of scholarship, they received it. Extending eligibility is going to create a larger pool of players due to the reduced MLB draft and there will be more cuts, but you can’t tell me coaches can’t handle this. They do it every year.
Agreed.
How will The Equity Athlete Disclosure Act (EADA) will impact the decision?
Note, The Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act (EADA) is designed to make prospective students aware of a school's commitment to providing equitable athletic opportunities for its men and women students.
All spring sports will demand the same:
Baseball does not generate enough revenue.
Vanderbilt's 2019 EADA
Vanderbilt's 10 year Baseball Expense
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hshuler posted:
This is gonna be a disaster.
Some will like. Some will hate. Schools will figure it out. Now we debate the inequality it will bring.
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PitchingFan posted:Some will like. Some will hate. Schools will figure it out. Now we debate the inequality it will bring.
Sometimes where you stand depends on where you sit.
When do they decide for D2 and D3?
Opinions will vary based on P5 vs mid-major and by class, but all things considered, this seems like a good compromise. Roster sizes for 2021 will expand by the # of Corona seniors. The 11.7 limit will also increase for 2021 by the amount of scholarships given to Corona seniors, up to the % each senior had in 2020 down to 0%. All 2020 classes given the extra year, which should help the juniors hoping for MLB draft leverage.
So, there are going to be some large rosters in 2021, which means less playing time for a lot of kids, which could lead to more redshirts and transfers. Colleges with strong 2020 senior classes and the financial means to bring them back on scholarship ought to benefit as well.
I’m pretty sure D2 announced like a week ago. The explanation is on a recent thread here...
Can someone list the steps/things that need to be done? Does player have to request a waiver, where, do you only request when you want the extra year or do it ASAP, etc?
Thanks in advance
http://www.ncaa.org/about/reso...es-impacted-covid-19
I thought it was important to post a direct link to NCAA. I know things are difficult to find on that website.
CTbballDad posted:Can someone list the steps/things that need to be done? Does player have to request a waiver, where, do you only request when you want the extra year or do it ASAP, etc?
Thanks in advance
Look to your school’s coach and compliance officers for direction.
CTbballDad posted:Can someone list the steps/things that need to be done? Does player have to request a waiver, where, do you only request when you want the extra year or do it ASAP, etc?
Thanks in advance
The Council also will allow schools to self-apply a one-year extension of eligibility for spring-sport student-athletes, effectively extending each student’s five-year “clock” by a year. This decision was especially important for student-athletes who had reached the end of their five-year clock in 2020 and saw their seasons end abruptly.
“The Council’s decision gives individual schools the flexibility to make decisions at a campus level,” said Council chair M. Grace Calhoun, athletics director at Penn. “The Board of Governors encouraged conferences and schools to take action in the best interest of student-athletes and their communities, and now schools have the opportunity to do that.”
Solid decision. They did it right in my opinion.
I’m surprised by this. I thought they’d base their decision on what would affect the fewest # of athletes. I’m not sure if this plan does that.
There will not be any scholarship $ to give to returning seniors. NLIs have been signed by incoming freshmen and JuCo transfers. It will vary from school to school how the corona seniors are treated. Some will be weeded out and some will be welcomed back but I can’t see a situation where corona seniors play on scholarship. Roster sizes will increase but 11.7 won’t. Athletic Departments have already lost revenue due to no March Madness & a full college football season in 2020 is no sure thing either. I don’t see ADs encouraging extra players because it means extra expenses. JMO
It will depend a lot on the economy. If it comes back strong and there are plenty of jobs for 2020 grads -- and the offers already tendered are honored -- then I think most corona seniors will join the workforce. But if there are no jobs, then grad school and another year of baseball becomes an attractive option. The same thing will apply when the following classes graduate.
JCG posted:It will depend a lot on the economy. If it comes back strong and there are plenty of jobs for 2020 grads -- and the offers already tendered are honored -- then I think most corona seniors will join the workforce. But if there are no jobs, then grad school and another year of baseball becomes an attractive option. The same thing will apply when the following classes graduate.
Grad school cost $ too. Some undergraduate schools are already predicting decreased enrollment (as much as 20%), due to the virus and changes in economy.
Go44dad posted:
MLB/MLBPA/NCAA got together to strategize about the 2020 High School class.
You forgot WHO
adbono posted:Go44dad posted:
MLB/MLBPA/NCAA got together to strategize about the 2020 High School class.
You forgot WHO
Our 2020 sons just have to step up/man up. What else can you do? Did it get a little harder - you bet - what can they do - outwork others. No different than before just more guys to beat out. We've all been impacted in many ways known and unknown.
The only winners here are P5 schools who were already fully funded and can take on the additional costs to keep their corona seniors. They will likely have lights out pitching staffs and enough guys on the roster that the bottom half could have probably found a way into the top 50 RPI.
The best seniors we saw from the first 1/4 of the season will be back. I'm talking weekend starters, closers, everyday 1-9 guys. Or guys who really want to go to grad school (reasonable). The 20 AB guy who started on Sundays - gone. The middle reliever who had 7 innings through 16 games - gone.
I keep seeing celebration, but a lot of seniors who think they are coming back for one last ride will be told there's no money, that they're going to give the younger guy a chance, or that with the seniors coming back and basically no draft - there is a roster jam.
I know in our case (P5) probably 4 (of 9) exhausted eligibility guys would be welcome back. Do all four come back? Probably not, one is already 24. Maybe 2 sign for 20k and don't go to grad school. But the problem won't be finding a way to make a few extra guys on the roster work, it will be the fact that there is basically no draft this year and instead of 35 guys working for 22ish slots of field time there will be 48. There will be excessive amounts of transferring, PG years, Juco dropdowns, etc. College coaches meticulously recruit and budget down to the penny based on the notion that the draft is 40 rounds. MLB screwed the NCAA - no way around it. A lot of kids will not be able to go to college where they wanted because of the decision the MLB made.
I am all for beating up on MLB when it is logical but they didn't and shouldn't make any draft rules based on the college seasons or eligibility rules. They should make draft rules on what is best for their organizations and nothing else. Many times those 2 interest would be matching but this isn't one of them.
PABaseball posted:The only winners here are P5 schools who were already fully funded and can take on the additional costs to keep their corona seniors. They will likely have lights out pitching staffs and enough guys on the roster that the bottom half could have probably found a way into the top 50 RPI.
I think on the surface this looks correct, but not in functionality. First off P5 is a myth in baseball just look at what UCF did to Auburn (#8at the time), handled them in a sweep, or what Georgia Southern did to UGA (#3 at the time), handled them in a sweep. And I mean handled, neither of those SEC teams was competitive with the teams that swept them. The P5 only applies in so much as ESPN makes sure that the schools with bigger followings are ranked at the top. (BTW at least 2 of the 5 P5 conferences did not favor this). So the talent discrepancy is not there, only the perception.
What are the the issues that many P5s have with this, because it is not finances? First, they typically have few senior players, so few coming back. But even if all seniors come back, that is not the issue the P5 conferences have. There are two big issues for them in this.
#1) Over commitments - the 2020s have already signed NLIs, and the 2019s are all effectively Freshman next year. This means schools that over-commit in baseball( most of the SEC, ACC, PAC, B10, and B12) will have close to 40 freshman coming in next year per their listed PG commitments. And what about the 2021s that they already have verbals from. Sorry guys, no room at the inn, because those recruits won't likely be allowed to sign NLIs above there allotment of 11.7 in the fall signing period.
Non-P5 achools won't face this as much as they tend to not over-commit as much.
Theoretically, all of their sophomore classes and junior classes (except for those draftable in the first 5 rounds, which ain't a lot - even at Vandy) will be back. Heck, we have 1 pitcher on my son's team that got a med redshirt his freshman year, a true redshirt will he rehabbed TJ surgery last year and now will be in his Freshman year of eligibilty in his 4th year of college next year.
2.) Graduate transfers, non-scholy (walk-on transfers), and JUCO transfers. P5s scholys are guaranteed 4 years, other D1 schools don't universally follow these rules. That's right P5 are likely to have such a bottleneck (see point number 1) that they won't be able to go after some key JUCO transfers or grad transfers or walk-ons. But a number of graduating seniors and redshirt-seniors just got a year of eligibility back. They and the walk-ons (and every team has walk-ons, JUCO transfers that contribute significantly) will be able to transfer as they please, but P5s are unlikely to be able to scoop up a key player here and there as they have done in the past.
This is going to be a big lesson to some players, parents, coaches, and athletic departments: Be careful what you wish for, because you might get it.
Gunner Mack Jr. posted:adbono posted:Go44dad posted:
MLB/MLBPA/NCAA got together to strategize about the 2020 High School class.
You forgot WHO
Our 2020 sons just have to step up/man up. What else can you do? Did it get a little harder - you bet - what can they do - outwork others. No different than before just more guys to beat out. We've all been impacted in many ways known and unknown.
Dirty little unspoken secret in the rah rah world of sports...It’s about natural talent and the gift of genetics.
Tough to huddle up the little leaguers before practice and tell them they are small, slow and uncoordinated and you got stuck with them because you were late for the draft and the other dads got all the athletes.
Of course hard work is important. It’s just assumed to be the norm.
Ain’t no hill for a stepper.
PABaseball posted:The only winners here are P5 schools who were already fully funded and can take on the additional costs to keep their corona seniors. They will likely have lights out pitching staffs and enough guys on the roster that the bottom half could have probably found a way into the top 50 RPI.
The best seniors we saw from the first 1/4 of the season will be back. I'm talking weekend starters, closers, everyday 1-9 guys. Or guys who really want to go to grad school (reasonable). The 20 AB guy who started on Sundays - gone. The middle reliever who had 7 innings through 16 games - gone.
I keep seeing celebration, but a lot of seniors who think they are coming back for one last ride will be told there's no money, that they're going to give the younger guy a chance, or that with the seniors coming back and basically no draft - there is a roster jam.
I know in our case (P5) probably 4 (of 9) exhausted eligibility guys would be welcome back. Do all four come back? Probably not, one is already 24. Maybe 2 sign for 20k and don't go to grad school. But the problem won't be finding a way to make a few extra guys on the roster work, it will be the fact that there is basically no draft this year and instead of 35 guys working for 22ish slots of field time there will be 48. There will be excessive amounts of transferring, PG years, Juco dropdowns, etc. College coaches meticulously recruit and budget down to the penny based on the notion that the draft is 40 rounds. MLB screwed the NCAA - no way around it. A lot of kids will not be able to go to college where they wanted because of the decision the MLB made.
Exactly what I meant when I said this is gonna be a disaster. Everybody is playing a big hand of poker, and no matter who you are you just got dealt a card that makes your odds of winning a whole lot worse.
old_school posted:I am all for beating up on MLB when it is logical but they didn't and shouldn't make any draft rules based on the college seasons or eligibility rules. They should make draft rules on what is best for their organizations and nothing else. Many times those 2 interest would be matching but this isn't one of them.
Not blaming MLB for shortening the draft, I'll be the first to agree that 40 is way too long. When non baseball players start getting drafted just for fun that's when you know it's a waste of time. But we also know the number isn't 5.
A change this drastic should not have gone into effect until a few years down the line. In other words if they said we're going with 20 rounds in 2020, 10 rounds in 2021, and 5 in 2022 I wouldn't have anything negative to say. But kids turned down money last year, kids turned down money the year before, kids turned down life changing money out of high school because they knew a 40 round draft would be there the next year. And now 3 months before the draft, not only did they cut it down by 35 rounds, they also cut the slot rounds in half which is arguably the bigger issue. If you're not a top 200 prospect you just pretty much became irrelevant in the eyes of MLB scouts.
Either way, they did screw college programs. Of course it's not their problem, but the entire landscape of college baseball changed because of this decision. So yes they did screw the NCAA, whether that is their concern or not.
Pedaldad posted:PABaseball posted:The only winners here are P5 schools who were already fully funded and can take on the additional costs to keep their corona seniors. They will likely have lights out pitching staffs and enough guys on the roster that the bottom half could have probably found a way into the top 50 RPI.
I think on the surface this looks correct, but not in functionality. First off P5 is a myth in baseball just look at what UCF did to Auburn (#8at the time), handled them in a sweep, or what Georgia Southern did to UGA (#3 at the time), handled them in a sweep. And I mean handled, neither of those SEC teams was competitive with the teams that swept them. The P5 only applies in so much as ESPN makes sure that the schools with bigger followings are ranked at the top. (BTW at least 2 of the 5 P5 conferences did not favor this). So the talent discrepancy is not there, only the perception.
I don't disagree with you. But P5 still applies in baseball as it relates to funding, resources, and facilities, not necessarily talent. Outside of the P5 schools there aren't a ton of fully funded programs. So when I say that the only winners who are P5 who were fully funded and can afford corona seniors - it is because only a select handful of schools (all P5) will be able to do this.
P5 ≠ talent, P5 = more $. There are plenty of mid majors with more talent than P5s
And yes Georgia Southern is a pretty good mid major program plenty capable of beating quality teams. But if you put them in the SEC I highly doubt they finish higher than Georgia in the standings. Doesn't mean Georgia Southern is bad, but also doesn't mean they are better than Georgia. Georgia Southern would have lost a series to an opponent they should have beat at some point this season too. Works both ways.
Gunner Mack Jr. posted:adbono posted:Go44dad posted:
MLB/MLBPA/NCAA got together to strategize about the 2020 High School class.
You forgot WHO
Our 2020 sons just have to step up/man up. What else can you do? Did it get a little harder - you bet - what can they do - outwork others. No different than before just more guys to beat out. We've all been impacted in many ways known and unknown.
If your son is a 2020 HS senior and is committed to a D1 program I would advise you to take a hard look at the current roster. My son is a JuCo Sophomore and I spent this morning going thru that exercise. Here is what the landscape will look like at the school he is committed to - assuming that all 10 seniors return (which is realistic in this case) and all 18 2020 recruits report to campus in the fall: 53 total players (unmanageable). 32 pitchers (competing for 22 roster spots) 21 pos plrs (competing for 13 roster spots) 10 corner IF (competing for 4 roster spots) That is insanity and you can bet your a$$ that I’m looking for other options. ANY freshman waliking into a situation like that thinking they will be on the 35 man roster is out of touch with reality. EVERY 2020!HS senior that is going into a situation like that should be on the phone right now looking for a JuCo where they can play for the next 2 years while this widespread roster logjam thins itself out.
If your son is a 2020 HS senior and is committed to a D1 program I would advise you to take a hard look at the current roster. My son is a JuCo Sophomore and I spent this morning going thru that exercise. Here is what the landscape will look like at the school he is committed to - assuming that all 10 seniors return (which is realistic in this case) and all 18 2020 recruits report to campus in the fall: 53 total players (unmanageable). 32 pitchers (competing for 22 roster spots) 21 pos plrs (competing for 13 roster spots) 10 corner IF (competing for 4 roster spots) That is insanity and you can bet your a$$ that I’m looking for other options. ANY freshman waliking into a situation like that thinking they will be on the 35 man roster is out of touch with reality. EVERY 2020!HS senior that is going into a situation like that should be on the phone right now looking for a JuCo where they can play for the next 2 years while this widespread roster logjam thins itself out.
Sent you a PM as this is not our situation. I do hear what you are saying and realize many unforeseeable things will occur. The thing I don't get is why every senior will return to the school to which your son committed. They weren't drafted as juniors, yeah they got robbed of their senior year but won't a bunch of seniors (in consultation with parents) realize that it might be time to start in the real world vs paying for another year of school. Of course, the real world job market is a freaking mess right now too. I am sure every poster here knows multiple people who have lost their jobs. Hopefully it will be just for a month or two though.
"Play in School" on Twitter just posted something I've been thinking awhile now regarding the extra year of eligibility. Like he said, may not be a popular opinion, but someone has to be the adult in the room. Here's what he said:
"Nearly every 2020 Graduating Senior should move on with their life & not return for another year of school & baseball. Incurring another year of tuition of $20,000 to $60,000 in order to play another 60 games of baseball is far from prudent. Every single day I hear about the $1.6 Trillion in student loan debt that our country is in. It is crippling people. It is keeping people from buying homes, from getting married, from starting families, from investing in their futures. And suddenly, there's an event that is going to entice kids to make an emotional decision that 5, 10, 20 years from now they will still be paying for. It is not prudent. The number of college seniors being drafted in the Top 5 rounds is very small. Making the "MLB Draft" a pretty poor excuse for returning. I'd tell you to go play in the DR or Mexico or straight up train all year instead of paying for another year of tuition. Are you on a full ride? Heck yeah! Go back! It will be the best year ever for you! Are your parents wealthy? Can they stroke a $50k check without batting an eye? Heck yeah! Go back! It will be the best year ever for you! I'm sure there are several "exceptions". There always are. But "exceptions" are just that. The *majority* of 2020 Graduating Seniors should hang of the spikes & join the real world. It's ok. If anything, that story may actually help you in the interview process."
I've been thinking the same thing a lot. It's also another reason that you should choose the school you attend as if baseball (or any sport) is NOT part of the equation. In other words, would you be happy/successful there if you didn't get to play for any number of possible reasons (injury, bench, etc...)? 4yrs vs 40. It brings home the PRIMARY reason for going to college - to get an education that will provide learning, growth, personal satisfaction & the ability to make a living and stand on your own two feet.
PABaseball posted:The only winners here are P5 schools who were already fully funded and can take on the additional costs to keep their corona seniors. They will likely have lights out pitching staffs and enough guys on the roster that the bottom half could have probably found a way into the top 50 RPI.
I would say that any school that can afford scholarships for their corona seniors is at an advantage. They can bring back the high performing seniors plus honor their NLIs for the 2020 high school grads.
Everyone else should be putting a better product on the field since they're all recruiting from a pool of 5 years worth of players as compared to 4 in a normal year. Very generally, no one in that group is at a real advantage since it's the same for everyone. On a case by case basis, some schools will benefit due to having top corona seniors who can afford to go to school for another year.
Which makes me wonder about the fall semester. Can corona seniors skip the fall semester if they don't need the credits?
I have spent the last couple of days looking at scenarios at our school. I think almost the entire team from this year will be back. There are a couple of guys who will be drafted but one fell from top 5 to projected 22 by PG. I won't be surprised to see him come back to make the jump back to top 5 or maybe even #1. The other two in top 200 are #45 and #98. There is 1 senior that got married this year so he might move on. The other two I would not be surprised to see them come back. I think you will get guys who come back at many P5's because of the hope of making the playoffs and a chance at CWS. I think there will be very little room for all except top 3/5 2020's for next spring. The catch with only having 3 seniors is the numbers only move to 38 and 30 which I think they will be 37/29. Not much room and 18 in 2020 class from HS and however many juco guys coming. I'm sure it will be that way and worse at most P5's and many mid-majors.
Go44dad posted:Gunner Mack Jr. posted:adbono posted:Go44dad posted:
MLB/MLBPA/NCAA got together to strategize about the 2020 High School class.
You forgot WHO
Our 2020 sons just have to step up/man up. What else can you do? Did it get a little harder - you bet - what can they do - outwork others. No different than before just more guys to beat out. We've all been impacted in many ways known and unknown.
Dirty little unspoken secret in the rah rah world of sports...It’s about natural talent and the gift of genetics.
Tough to huddle up the little leaguers before practice and tell them they are small, slow and uncoordinated and you got stuck with them because you were late for the draft and the other dads got all the athletes.
Of course hard work is important. It’s just assumed to be the norm.
Ain’t no hill for a stepper.
The first step to being a top athlete is pick your parents wisely. Sunday night I watched a 1992 interview with Bobby Orr, Ted Williams and Larry Bird. Bird had just retired. All three recognized early they had natural gifts. All three said they outworked everyone because 1) they wanted to get the most out of their gifts and 2) there were plenty of other very talented athletes in their game.
John Saunders, former ESPN announcer played D1 college hockey. He said his kids had the talent. But because he provided them with a cushy upbringing they lacked the drive to be a major college athlete.
If college baseball were blackjack the college players who aren’t draft prospect studs and 2020 recruits should feel like they have 20 showing and the dealer has an Ace up.
You know what you have. But you don’t have all the answers. There are going to be some personal decisions that feel good at the time and turn out to be disastrous.
RJM posted:Go44dad posted:Gunner Mack Jr. posted:adbono posted:Go44dad posted:
The first step to being a top athlete is pick your parents wisely. Sunday night I watched a 1992 interview with Bobby Orr, Ted Williams and Larry Bird. Bird had just retired. All three recognized early they had natural gifts. All three said they outworked everyone because 1) they wanted to get the most out of their gifts and 2) there were plenty of other very talented athletes in their game.
John Saunders, former ESPN announcer played D1 college hockey. He said his kids had the talent. But because he provided them with a cushy upbringing they lacked the drive to be a major college athlete.
I used to tell my kids that if they were "one in a million" talents (in school or sports), that meant there were eight million people in the world just as good as them. (Not to mention another 10 or 20 million who may just want want success more than you do. )
Ummmm....
Signed,
8th grade math teacher
jacjacatk posted:Ummmm....
Signed,
8th grade math teacher
Yes I meant to say 8 thousand. I am trying to work from home while also posting here. Clearly that is at least one thing too many.
old_school posted:I am all for beating up on MLB when it is logical but they didn't and shouldn't make any draft rules based on the college seasons or eligibility rules. They should make draft rules on what is best for their organizations and nothing else. Many times those 2 interest would be matching but this isn't one of them.
Sad but true.
Gunner Mack Jr. posted:adbono posted:Go44dad posted:
MLB/MLBPA/NCAA got together to strategize about the 2020 High School class.
You forgot WHO
Our 2020 sons just have to step up/man up. What else can you do? Did it get a little harder - you bet - what can they do - outwork others. No different than before just more guys to beat out. We've all been impacted in many ways known and unknown.
Man up? Outworking others may or may not work. Best to look at the those returning players stats, if they have the innings, then the coach will most likely lean on them, especially in conference play.
History normally repeats.
Facts are stubborn things.
CollegebaseballInsights posted:Gunner Mack Jr. posted:adbono posted:Go44dad posted:
MLB/MLBPA/NCAA got together to strategize about the 2020 High School class.
You forgot WHO
Our 2020 sons just have to step up/man up. What else can you do? Did it get a little harder - you bet - what can they do - outwork others. No different than before just more guys to beat out. We've all been impacted in many ways known and unknown.
Man up? Outworking others may or may not work. Best to look at the those returning players stats, if they have the innings, then the coach will most likely lean on them, especially in conference play.
History normally repeats.
Facts are stubborn things.
This ! X 1000
The number of college seniors being drafted in the Top 5 rounds is very small. Making the "MLB Draft" a pretty poor excuse for returning. I'd tell you to go play in the DR or Mexico or straight up train all year instead of paying for another year of tuition. Are you on a full ride? Heck yeah! Go back! It will be the best year ever for you! Are your parents wealthy? Can they stroke a $50k check without batting an eye? Heck yeah! Go back! It will be the best year ever for you! I'm sure there are several "exceptions". There always are.
And IMO this is likely what will happen with most current SRs that have enough credits to graduate. The 2022 season will be trickier, and probably the most difficult to navigate for all players, as far as earning playing time.
MidAtlanticDad posted:PABaseball posted:The only winners here are P5 schools who were already fully funded and can take on the additional costs to keep their corona seniors. They will likely have lights out pitching staffs and enough guys on the roster that the bottom half could have probably found a way into the top 50 RPI.
I would say that any school that can afford scholarships for their corona seniors is at an advantage. They can bring back the high performing seniors plus honor their NLIs for the 2020 high school grads.Everyone else should be putting a better product on the field since they're all recruiting from a pool of 5 years worth of players as compared to 4 in a normal year. Very generally, no one in that group is at a real advantage since it's the same for everyone. On a case by case basis, some schools will benefit due to having top corona seniors who can afford to go to school for another year.Which makes me wonder about the fall semester. Can corona seniors skip the fall semester if they don't need the credits?
How will corona seniors be listed on the school websites: C-SR ? lol
PABaseball posted:old_school posted:I am all for beating up on MLB when it is logical but they didn't and shouldn't make any draft rules based on the college seasons or eligibility rules. They should make draft rules on what is best for their organizations and nothing else. Many times those 2 interest would be matching but this isn't one of them.
Not blaming MLB for shortening the draft, I'll be the first to agree that 40 is way too long. When non baseball players start getting drafted just for fun that's when you know it's a waste of time. But we also know the number isn't 5.
A change this drastic should not have gone into effect until a few years down the line. In other words if they said we're going with 20 rounds in 2020, 10 rounds in 2021, and 5 in 2022 I wouldn't have anything negative to say. But kids turned down money last year, kids turned down money the year before, kids turned down life changing money out of high school because they knew a 40 round draft would be there the next year. And now 3 months before the draft, not only did they cut it down by 35 rounds, they also cut the slot rounds in half which is arguably the bigger issue. If you're not a top 200 prospect you just pretty much became irrelevant in the eyes of MLB scouts.
Either way, they did screw college programs. Of course it's not their problem, but the entire landscape of college baseball changed because of this decision. So yes they did screw the NCAA, whether that is their concern or not.
I think you missed my point. Not only do schools in the Sunbelt, AAC, C-USA, etc. (such as Coastal Carolina, UCF, South Florida, GA Southern, South Alabama, East Carolina, Southern Miss, Tulane, UC-Fullerton, etc.) have equivalent talent, but they have the followings to support baseball. What they don't have is the scholy and commit burden of most P5.
Let's not forget that the NCAA gave the schools discretion relative to Seniors. But don't focus on on Seniors. Seniors don't really matter in this scenario(school discretion). It's the 2020 class and 2021 class. I like to use Vandy because they are such an easy target, but they are characteristic of most P5, which have 4-year scholarship commitments. Everyone got a year of eligibility. So counting toward the 27 and 35 next year Vandy has potentially:
Returnung juniors -8. Sophomores -9. Freshman -16. Incoming Freshman - 18.
This effectively gives them 34 Freshman in next years class. This is a real problem. Not that they and many others don't deal with this every year. But they aren't going to have that many drafted this year(5-10 rounds vs 40). Then, hold on to your hat, they have 22 commits in the 2022 class. There will be nowhere to put people because others are in the same situation.
Now, take a look at South Alabama, a team that relies heavily on Juco transfers:
Returning Juniors - 21. Sophomores - 5. Freshman - 3. Incoming Freshman 9.
S.Alabama currently only has 6 commits for 2021. So tell me who does this favor. The talent spillover from the P5 is going to be a windfall to programs like S. Alabama. Additionally P5 schools have agreed to offer scholys for 4 years. Most other conferences and schools are free to renew annually with adjustments up or down. These schools frequently already took scholys away from seniors. So for a year, yeah P5 will get some seniors back, but do most really want them? They will have no room to add key JUCO transfers. They will have to let a lot of talented commits and walk-ons go. A lot of talented guys that are seniors and juniors at overcommitted institutions will be hunting for a place to go, because guys aren't getting drafted. Like I said, be careful what you wish for.
And if rumor is true and NCAA dispands the "sit out rule "for all transfer athletes in good academic standing, not just walk-ons, it will get very interesting this summer.
Sorry my response was not meant for your post, but an earlier one.
Son’s school sent an email stating they will not be granting the waiver. Surprised as they don’t have scholarships, graduate programs nor do they typically roster the full 35. Looks like they will grant a waiver for those wishing to transfer.
I interpret their decision is based on not wanting 5 year undergrads, impacting their graduation rate stats, financial aid, etc.
Decision seems to only impact draft leverage, but that’s hardly an occurrence from either the school or conference.
Curious to see if we’re the only ones in this camp...
CTbballDad posted:Son’s school sent an email stating they will not be granting the waiver. Surprised as they don’t have scholarships, graduate programs nor do they typically roster the full 35. Looks like they will grant a waiver for those wishing to transfer.
No graduate school there, right?
I’m sure someone has ask this earlier, but I’m getting lazy.
What are your opinions on the effect on NLI in 2020 and HS recruiting.
For some, weigh in on the MLB Draft for HS players.
Could this be a year where HS players are left in the cold?
BaseballBUDDY posted:I’m sure someone has ask this earlier, but I’m getting lazy.
What are your opinions on the effect on NLI in 2020 and HS recruiting.
For some, weigh in on the MLB Draft for HS players.
Could this be a year where HS players are left in the cold?
All of this has been covered. Just do a little reading in other threads
Phone calls are being made to college guys. Son got his last night. Short version: You are good but you know you will have to work even harder to find playing time. Whether there is summer ball or not, come in August ready to compete along with everyone else. Make sure you keep grades up and keep lifting, throwing, and hitting. Will stay in contact as we go through this together.
I'm sure almost every college baseball player is as anxious as mine was when that phone rang and it was his HC. No matter where you think you are there is always the small amount of doubt and for some it will be legitimate doubt and a few will be caught by surprise.
PitchingFan posted:Phone calls are being made to college guys. Son got his last night. Short version: You are good but you know you will have to work even harder to find playing time. Whether there is summer ball or not, come in August ready to compete along with everyone else. Make sure you keep grades up and keep lifting, throwing, and hitting. Will stay in contact as we go through this together.
I'm sure almost every college baseball player is as anxious as mine was when that phone rang and it was his HC. No matter where you think you are there is always the small amount of doubt and for some it will be legitimate doubt and a few will be caught by surprise.
Yep, and some aren’t gonna believe it until it happens to them
My son and I have spent a lot of time talking about his friends on his team and guys he has played with. Wondering who will stay and who will go. Who will be redshirted next year. Who will change schools or just drop baseball all together. The interesting part is they are not talking to each other about those things because they don't want to be the one who suggests a bad thought to their friends because as we all know baseball players are superstitious. But as we talked after his call last night, the reality is everyone cannot come back and everyone come in. He has guys he has played against and with that are coming in to his program this year, some on scholarship, some preferred walk-on, and at least one he knows was going to be a true walk-on. I told him the term preferred walk-on somewhat just went out the window this year. I think a lot of coaches are going to tell guys "That preferred status we talked about is no longer relevant. You will have to work extra hard this fall to earn any chance of staying in the spring."
PitchingFan posted:My son and I have spent a lot of time talking about his friends on his team and guys he has played with. Wondering who will stay and who will go. Who will be redshirted next year. Who will change schools or just drop baseball all together. The interesting part is they are not talking to each other about those things because they don't want to be the one who suggests a bad thought to their friends because as we all know baseball players are superstitious. But as we talked after his call last night, the reality is everyone cannot come back and everyone come in. He has guys he has played against and with that are coming in to his program this year, some on scholarship, some preferred walk-on, and at least one he knows was going to be a true walk-on. I told him the term preferred walk-on somewhat just went out the window this year. I think a lot of coaches are going to tell guys "That preferred status we talked about is no longer relevant. You will have to work extra hard this fall to earn any chance of staying in the spring."
Any 2020s that walk on to a D1 program in fall of 2020 are going to walk off 90 days later
I would not say across the board that applies. My son was talking to his future P5 D1 coach last night. They still have a spot for him next year as a preferred walk-on. Their roster numbers still look good even with the smaller MLB draft. I agree you do need to do research. Earlier yesterday before his call we were going through all of the juniors and incoming freshman trying to research how many would still be picked in the draft to guesstimate the roster size next year.
TXsportsdad posted:I would not say across the board that applies. My son was talking to his future P5 D1 coach last night. They still have a spot for him next year as a preferred walk-on. Their roster numbers still look good even with the smaller MLB draft. I agree you do need to do research. Earlier yesterday before his call we were going through all of the juniors and incoming freshman trying to research how many would still be picked in the draft to guesstimate the roster size next year.
Don't forget the guys who will sign as free agents for $20,000. I feel like a good number of current juniors and seniors would take this deal if they're primarily going to college to play baseball. I haven't heard anything about how many players teams are likely to sign this way. There should be some real bargains out there this year.
Pedaldad posted:
"I like to use Vandy because they are such an easy target, but they are characteristic of most P5, which have 4-year scholarship commitments. Everyone got a year of eligibility. So counting toward the 27 and 35 next year Vandy has potentially:
Returnung juniors -8. Sophomores -9. Freshman -16. Incoming Freshman - 18.
This effectively gives them 34 Freshman in next years class. "
What you are missing is this:
The 9 sophomores from this season are what is left from a 22 man recruiting class of 2018's after 1 year in the program. I would say for programs like Vandy, Arkansas, etc this is more a business as usual situation. Any kid headed to Vandy as part of a 22 man recruiting class better already know he is swimming with the sharks....if he doesn't it's a failure on him to do some basic research.
The programs that don't already run this way are in for a shock though.
How many seniors will come back anyway? I guess the coaches will tell most seniors that they can come back but there is no scholarship money left except for a few good ones who are very good but not good enough to be drafted in those 5 rounds.
Of course some seniors with affluent parents might still come back because their parents pay for a year of baseball but many probably won't come back because they can't afford to.
22and25 posted:The 9 sophomores from this season are what is left from a 22 man recruiting class of 2018's after 1 year in the program. I would say for programs like Vandy, Arkansas, etc this is more a business as usual situation. Any kid headed to Vandy as part of a 22 man recruiting class better already know he is swimming with the sharks....if he doesn't it's a failure on him to do some basic research.
The programs that don't already run this way are in for a shock though.
Yes it is business as usual for the usual offenders, but they will not benefit from this. 6 players of that Vandy 2018 class signed contracts. That's not happening this year. Nor are there going to be as many of their junior and sophomore eligible players drafted. They effectively will have 30+ freshman next year. The 11.7 increase is only for 1 year. The spillover of talent to the other conferences is going to be incredible. You can still only go up to 35 spots for freshman through juniors. Desirable Juco transfers, and transfer spots will be going to other D1 programs(mostly outside P5) .
https://www.fox13memphis.com/s...WFIE6IKFDDZ36DU2VJM/
Here is a link to a good article outlining the problem. NCAA said to players and coaches, "alright you tell us we got to do this. Here it is. Now deal with it.
22and25 posted:Pedaldad posted:
"I like to use Vandy because they are such an easy target, but they are characteristic of most P5, which have 4-year scholarship commitments. Everyone got a year of eligibility. So counting toward the 27 and 35 next year Vandy has potentially:
Returnung juniors -8. Sophomores -9. Freshman -16. Incoming Freshman - 18.
This effectively gives them 34 Freshman in next years class. "
What you are missing is this:
The 9 sophomores from this season are what is left from a 22 man recruiting class of 2018's after 1 year in the program. I would say for programs like Vandy, Arkansas, etc this is more a business as usual situation. Any kid headed to Vandy as part of a 22 man recruiting class better already know he is swimming with the sharks....if he doesn't it's a failure on him to do some basic research.
The programs that don't already run this way are in for a shock though.
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Vanderbilt 2020 Distribution by Position
Vanderbilt 2019 Distribution by Position
Vanderbilt 2020 Player Attrition (Compares 2020 vs 2019)
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