Need advice

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Originally posted by Mizzoubaseball:

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Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
The boy has improved the last 3 years yet the coach is "ignoring" him?
There is more to this story that I think you should find out.
I would talk with your son first to make sure there was nothing else left out in his explanation that could prove embarassing.
Then talk to the coach to see what is going on.
Just staying out of it won't make it better.

Others have offered great advice on this subject, so I wont offer the same advice you already have heard. So my advice to you on this board is to never listen to the advice that this guy gives you. It seems every message board has the one guy who has to go against the flow on every subject. He is that guy here. Probaby in your best interest not to listen to him.

If every instinct he's ever had has been wrong ...

Do the opposite

quote:

Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:

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Originally posted by YoungGunDad:
I'm not on here as much lately for a variety of reasons until ball cranks up.

Im not even sure I know who bostonbulldog is but all I can say to that response is "WOW"!

YGD

It's fairly straightforward. So a guy who becomes head coach of a baseball team automatically "knows best"?

How many stories have we heard of high school head coaches riding one of their pitchers until their arm blows out? Or taking the catcher halfway through the game and using him as a pitcher?

The only reason for a parent to intercede is physical or emotional abuse. Even then be careful. Approaching coaches regarding position and playing time is taboo.

You have brought up a very common issue in HS athletics. I believe you have a couple of options here:
1) Schedule a meeting with the coach to find out where he stands in the coaches mind not necessarily in the here and now as that seems obvious but also ask about the past you gave examples of and ask about his role in the future.
Consider the HS coaches roll. His job is to win and to win now so if he doesn't see your son helping with that goal, it will be tough to crack the lineup.

2) Find a very qualified former pro with good references from other clients and ask him to evaluate your son to get good, un-biased
feedback about where your son stands as a ball player compared to others his age. Many people mistake statistics with projection. This means just because a kid puts up good numbers he may not project well long term against other kids his age because of his physical attributes. Coaches are always impressed with "tools" and you need to get a good baseline of where your son stands.

3) Do nothing and let him play. My dad played Division 1 and then when I was in HS he just sat back and was a great encourager in my career but he never second guessed my coach or made comments about other players. He just let me play and would work with me when asked. I had to "put my head down and work hard" to make my own way.

4) Put your son in the best situation to succeed. Help him by getting the feedback afore mentioned and then work on the specific deficiencies with him either through encouraging him to practice on his own, weight training, diet, etc. or getting him with a good personal instructor. Make sure this is something he wants and not just you.

good question...

Brandon

Excellent post agamennone1. And for me, your #4 was my particular emphasis.

Our fathers were from a generation that didn't interfere with our sports. After spending time in foxholes they didn't see where a little adversity in sports would hurt us. In fact, they figured it would help. My father was a veteran and a D1 athlete until he got injured. Until I was a college prospect he never said more than "good game" or get 'em next time" in any sport I played. Even when he saw promise in high school he never disected a game after the game. It waited until the next day and I was in the right mood.

Furry - I cant give you any specific advice but I can tell you that if he stays in the game - this wont be the first time that he has to navigate around (or through) some roadblocks.

You can spend your time debating whether the coach is right or wrong (IMO - a total waste of time) or you can encourage him to keep grinding. Keep working hard, keep striving to get better and use the roadblock as additional motivation - and not as an excuse.

Good luck !

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Originally posted by RJM:
Our fathers were from a generation that didn't interfere with our sports. After spending time in foxholes they didn't see where a little adversity in sports would hurt us. In fact, they figured it would help. My father was a veteran and a D1 athlete until he got injured. Until I was a college prospect he never said more than "good game" or get 'em next time" in any sport I played. Even when he saw promise in high school he never disected a game after the game. It waited until the next day and I was in the right mood.

My father was a WWII vet and I wished he would have been more involved when I played baseball. I needed some motivation when I went through a terrible baseball year at 14.

When my son hits high school next year I will ask the baseball coach to watch the pitch count and don't pitch my son the same game as he catches. And as a backup plan my son and I will have a secret sign to alert him when he reaches a predetermined pitch count so if the coach doesn't pull him he can fake arm soreness.

I don't want my son getting ruined because I am trusting the coach to doing what's best for the team.

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Originally posted by bostonbulldogbaseball:
…I don't want my son getting ruined because I am trusting the coach to doing what's best for the team.

Its really just that simple. Parents can’t transfer responsibility of their child to someone else. They can give someone else authority to make decisions, but the responsibility for those decisions always rests with the parents.

If you don’t want to be the parent, why not just turn the kid over to the coach and let him raise the kid?

.

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Originally posted by Furrybear:
Let me start by saying hello to everyone, as this is my first post here. Seems like there is a lot of info on this board that is helpful with my son's high school experience. Now, lets get to the reason why I'm here.

My son, has been playing freshman ball now for 2 years (started as a 8th grader) and now just started his sophmore year in highschool. He ended his first season hitting .250, his second above .300 and last leason was named MVP hitting above .450 and ranking 1st in every offensive category. Also while he developed last year, he was platooned between freshman and JV. Sounds good so far, right? Well, We are in the beginning of Fall ball and he was placed with the freshman team. He hit leadoff last year, he is hitting 8th. He is struggling a bit, but he always starts slow. The Varsity coach is outright ignoring him in school and will not acknowledge him at all. I am dumbfounded because i cannot for the life of me understand what is going on. A couple things of note: A) The kid works hard in practice and on his own, hence his improvement shown. His drive to succeed is impressive as he has only started playing when he was 12. B) He is a truly a good kid, as was pointed out by an umpire in yesterdays game that recognized him and also wondered why he is not playing. C) My wife and I are very supportive of the program. I even helped coached of an on the last two seasons. D) He is the only player to bring sponsorship to the program and the highest contributor financially to the program via fundraising.

I am not expecting any special treatment at all whatsover. I have always taught him to put his head down and work hard and things will fall in place, and he has. I just dont understand what is going on. Can anyone help in how we, Him or us, can address or handle this situation? We have never experienced this before. Thanks in advance of any advice given.

Let me just say that you should listen carefully to the advice these folks give you. Read there comments and wait a few days and read them again. I have learned that it might not be what I wanted to hear, but was what I needed to hear. We all want the best for our sons, however there are a lot of dynamics that go into coaching a high school team that we as parents do not always understand. Sometimes we cannot separate the emotions and think rationally. It sounds like your son has done well, but right now is struggling a bit. I would not be hung up on the stats right now. Freshman and JV stats do not mean that much. If he is down about this have him talk to the coach. Also this is fall ball..... a lot can change between now and next spring. I mean he is not injured right? He has hit a bump in the road, support him but don't run to the coach, believe me, I have been in your shoes this is not a huge deal. Mostly likely the varsity coach is not ignoring him, he has a varsity team to run.

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Originally posted by Furrybear:
Well, Furry jr is certainly not helping his cause at the plate, went 0-2, grounder to third(which he almost beat out) and another K. For whatever reason, he doesnt seem comfotable at the plate, maybe thinking too much, i dont know. Lack of confidence? He's leadoff most of his life because of his speed. He is starting, but in CF (for the first time ever) and playing some at 2B (his natural position) behind a younger player. No one is hitting on the team, literally, but of course my focus is on my own. I have taken the advice to not mention anything to the varsity coach which is filling in this weeks games becasue the JV guy coached football during the week...He seems to be ok mentally and wants to continue to work on his swing to "get back on track"... Thank you all for your insight and advice.

I found him a personal trainer but the kid wasnt reliable. When he did work with him, he seemed to think that we was fine, just needed some refining. I have to find someone else. It may be time to change his hitting coach though. Is this a good thing although i think his issue is upstairs. What do you all think?

I think you're thinking and worrying too much.

Furrybear

If your son shares your thoughts on his own play or you share your thoughts with him, such as:

"not helping his cause at the plate
went 0-2
another K
doesnt seem comfotable at the plate,
Lack of confidence?
It may be time to change his hitting coach though"

He is probably mentally in the worst place an athlete could be. So to your question:
"i think his issue is upstairs. What do you all think? "

It's most probably a big part of his problem, but the panic I feel from your posts has to be felt by your son. I promise you that him feeling your panic does not help at all. And I'm not saying you are a bad father at all, we have all done it, I have done it. My advice, tell your son not to worry about who is playing in front of him, about if he will make the team, if the coach likes him, about his last at bat, his next at bat..... but rather to enjoy the day of baseball that he has in front of him. Its a great game that he seems to love to play...mentally allow him to love the game again by just allowing him to play the game. If you do not, it will probably get worse.

In baseball, if you are thinkin you are usually stinkin. Hope this post makes sense.

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i think his issue is upstairs. What do you all think? "

I don't think it's the kid's issue.

Have you ever missed a game? It might be the time to take a day off.

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He is no longer on my team

You just made the most important move ever, you are now on HIS team.

His team needs a proud dad , his team needs a loyal fan,his team needs a milkshake on the way home,all things he is saving for YOU.

catchersdad

http://www.thepostgame.com/blo...htmare-sports-parent

This has been posted on this site before, but here you go. Next time he brings up a mistake that he made or complains about going 0-4, be prepared to tell him that you are not concerned because he is a good ballplayer. Everyone commits errors - question is, how do you (player) act afterwards?

After practice or a game let your son talk. If he doesn't talk, he doesn't want to discuss it at that time. Learn this is not a good time to analyze his game. As they get older sometimes they've had enough from the coaching staff. They don't want to hear it from dad, too.

Furry, my son had a terrible high school experience all four years, from injuries to injustice/politics but in the end, after just one season of high school Varsity he had 3 D1 offers and was vindicated by his refusal to quit or be driven out. It was character forming and painful and never once did I approach the coach! I wanted to kill him but it wasn't my roll.

Honestly, the advice you have received has been really good. Let him work it out and stay away for a while if you can't help yourself in worrying too much about results. JV isn't the end of the world for a sophomore. Let it ride and take a break from the worry and maybe he will too.

quote:

Originally posted by calisportsfan:
Furry, my son had a terrible high school experience all four years, from injuries to injustice/politics but in the end, after just one season of high school Varsity he had 3 D1 offers and was vindicated by his refusal to quit or be driven out. It was character forming and painful and never once did I approach the coach! I wanted to kill him but it wasn't my roll.

Honestly, the advice you have received has been really good. Let him work it out and stay away for a while if you can't help yourself in worrying too much about results. JV isn't the end of the world for a sophomore. Let it ride and take a break from the worry and maybe he will too.

Was your son a starting pitcher in high school?

No he was not. Regardless, he had a bad high school experience but hopefully walked away being very well equipped to face the ups and downs of college ball and work through them. He is no stranger to adversity and I am more proud of that then any home run he has ever hit!

To be honest I'm not really worried about injustice or politics. Been through that already with two older sons.

I'm more concerned with my sons arm health seeing as he could end up being the starting pitcher at some point in high school.

I will have my son on a travel team anyway.

I don't think Furry bear is concerned with overuse.
His concern is lack of attention,which his son will get when he does great things on the field.

A problem some players have when they feel they are on the short end of justice is they do more complaining than preparation. An opportunity to get one at bat or one inning on the mound can be life altering. But the player must be mentally and physically prepared for that moment rather than in a funk.

A friend of mine's son was drafted in the 38th round. He spent every opening day of his minor league career on the bench. Every year by May 1st he was a regular. He was moved from position to position each year. Some years he played all over. But whatever it took he was mentally and physically ready to take advantage of the first at bat.

Good points RJM. You can spend your time and efforts preparing to take advantage of an opportunity or complaining about not getting an opportunity. Look if a parent going to a coach and complaining about playing time actually gets their son playing time what does that say about the coach? And who is the kid that gets less playing time because someone's Mom or Dad went to the coach? When do his parents show up at the coaches front door?

I remember one year a parent wanted to meet with me about his sons lack of playing time. I told the parent to have his son come see me first since the player had yet to speak to me. The next day after practice the player came to me and said he wanted to play more. I asked him if he thought he had earned more playing time with his performance in practice. He said no. I asked him if he thought he had earned more playing time with his performance in the games. He said no. I then asked him why I should reward him with more playing time. He said he didn't know. I then explained to him that everyone on the team and in the stands wanted to play. But I had to play the players that earned the playing time. And playing time was a reward for performance and work ethic. I had already explained to him earlier in the year why he was not starting. I had already explained to him what I thought he needed to do to earn more playing time earlier in the year. The pressure was coming from his Dad.

I then told the player if he wanted to meet with me and his Dad to go home and ask his Dad if the next day after practice was good. The next day I asked the player if his Dad was coming by after practice. He said he forgot to talk to his Dad. So that night I called the players Dad. The Dad was upset with me and said he had asked for a meeting but I had not got back with him. So I explained the talk I had with his son and I requested a meeting with the player and Dad two days later on a day off "Sunday" afternoon.

When the Dad walked in he had this look on his face like he was ready to unload on me. The player looked like he was about to throw up. I felt so sorry for the player. The Dad started off talking about the other players on the team starting and how his son was a better player than they were. How he had played in front of them all the way leading up to HS and how his son was an All Star and these kids never made All Stars. He also went on to say that I was killing his kids chance to get a scholarship and I was killing his desire to play the game. When he got finished I asked his son in front of his Dad if he thought he had earned a starting spot on the team. "No sir." I then asked him if he had performed in practice and games as well as the players starting in the outfield ahead of him. "No sir." I then asked him if I had explained to him what he needed to do to earn more playing time. "Yes sir."

The Dad looked like he wanted to crawl under the desk. The player looked like he still wanted to puke. I then looked the Dad in the eye and said "Nothing you say or do is going to change anything as it relates to who plays and who does not play. Your son will get what he earns I promise you that. And I could careless who was the better player 5 years ago, 5 months ago, five days ago or five minutes ago. The player I believe is the best player when I make out the line up card is going to play. When your son is one of those players I promise you he will be in the line up that day."

I then went on to explain I was not going to discuss any other persons son with him. That I wouldn't do that to his son and I wasn't going to discuss someone else's son with him.

That was this players Jr year. He did not come out for the team his Sr year. His Dad still tells everyone in our small town that his son would have, should have, could have but didn't because of his HS coach. And that changes what?

Maybe if Dad had just told his son to work hard, fight for what he wanted, things would have been different. Maybe the player would have been motivated to get better. Maybe the player would have had a good HS baseball experience. Maybe the Dad would have enjoyed going to the games and watching his son when he got in games which he did many times. Instead he was a bitter man and had a miserable experience.

When my son has experienced tough times in this game I have always stayed true to what I believe. "The coach makes out the line up card. He is going to play who he believes is the best option. It doesn't matter what I think I am not the coach. It doesn't matter what the fans think they are not the coach. So what you have to do is convince him that you are the best option. What's that going to take? Do you know? If you don't know find out. If you do know or once you find out then do it. Convince the coach you are the best option. Do whatever you have to do to get in the line up. Do what ever you have to do to get better. Fight for it. If it matters that much to you then let your actions show it. Its not the coaches job to make you like him. Its your job to make him like you. And in like, I mean want you in the line up. So stop talking and start working."

If I thought I could go to a coach and earn something for my son I wouldn't do it. Why would I want my son to get something he should have to earn because I ran to a coach? How could he feel any pride in that? How could I? And if I thought he played for a coach that would put someone in the line up based on a parent coming to them and complaining ahead of another player who had earned it I would get away from that coach ASAP.

The player at the HS level and beyond should go to the coach and find out what he needs to do. If he doesn't already know. He then has a decision to make. Am I willing to do it? Am I capable of doing it? Then its up to the player. Parents, you can't get it for your kid once he reaches a certain level of the game. I know many times you have had the ability to manipulate the situation. But at some point and time its going to be simply up to him. That can be very hard for some people to grasp hold of. But sooner or later you have no choice. You can play the should have, could have, would have game the rest of your life. People will stand there and hear your words. But they are not listening. Its a story often told but no one wants to hear it.

And that pretty much sums up why I call you Coach - and will do so the rest of my life.

Any youngsters out there should read what Coach May has to say - and really think about it. Let it soak in. That is the best advice I could give any young person who comes to this great site - regardless of the sport they play (or any other endeavor they are pursuing).

My boys never played for Coach May - and I only have met Coach about 3 times. And I enjoyed every second of it.

But I can tell you - for whatever it is worth - that this is an individual that a young person wants to listen to. And should listen to.

Coach May - fortunately - is willing to share his thoughts about baseball and give all of us the benefit of his experience - but make no mistake about this. It is way more than preparing oneself for the game of the baseball.

His posts provide valuable lessons about preparing oneself for adult life - regardless of what your goals and/or endeavors are - free from the parents demons and regrets and the way they act them out.

That is why I will always call him Coach.

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. His Dad still tells everyone in our small town that his son would have, should have, could have but didn't because of his HS coach. And that changes what?

The only people who pay any attention to this stuff is other parents of the coulda, woulda, shoulda club. Everyone else glazes over, nods politely and can't wait to get away.

My son and I had the opportunity to join the woulda, coulda, shoulda club in basketball. After starting at point on the freshman team the varsity coach determined soph year there was no sense putting time into a kid already playing two varsity sports, missing all the optional workouts and not playing in a summer basketball league. After a day of shock my son and I decided being cut was an opportunity for him to train for baseball over the winter. Both of us attended the basketball games. When either of us were told he was screwed we responded it's allowing him to focus on baseball. The coach, who I consider a friend said I took it far better than parents of less talented players. The reality it no one who matters wants to listen to the complaining.

That's why they have travel ball.

I've also heard a coach (not school ball) say he played the best during a game and I know for a fact that wasn't true. Not that it affected my kid any but it was obvious the coaches word didn't mean much.

If there were more coaches like Coach May the game would be more enjoyable.

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The player at the HS level and beyond should go to the coach and find out what he needs to do. If he doesn't already know. He then has a decision to make. Am I willing to do it? Am I capable of doing it? Then its up to the player. Parents, you can't get it for your kid once he reaches a certain level of the game. I know many times you have had the ability to manipulate the situation. But at some point and time its going to be simply up to him. That can be very hard for some people to grasp hold of. But sooner or later you have no choice. You can play the should have, could have, would have game the rest of your life. People will stand there and hear your words. But they are not listening. Its a story often told but no one wants to hear it.

I kind of had a feeling along the similar line but Coach May confirmed it. No matter what 'elite' teams the kids were when they were young, it did not necessary translate into success when they are into their senior year of HS. This is simply because when they were young, parents were the ones pushed them and fought for them, play time and position and teams. When they are in HS and college, they have to prove it by themselves and that's a big difference. So my rationale is to start the process while sons were young and let them prove to the coach they can play. I just sat back and cheered the loudest from the stand. The times I talked to coaches were for safety reasons, arm sore, pitch counts, injuries. I want to see the desire to play coming from within, not because of me.

'

[.

Furrybear, is your son's HS program a small to med size program? Trying to digest your concerns.

quote:

Originally posted by Furrybear:
He proceeded to explain his and his staffs experience, what they offer and the cost. He also said he has a summer program he'd like to have him play on. Next he mentioned something interesting, that most recruiters are focusing more on summer teams rather than the high schools. Kinda makes sense but never heard that before.

Be careful about having your son evaluated by someone who can make money off the potential he sees. They're not always honest. They sometimes put a carrot out there that's reachable if you're just willing to invest money on your son with them.

Furry, travel ball is more important because good teams tend to play at events that allow college coaches to go and see many talented players as opposed to the high school season when the college teams are in season too putting coaches time at a premium and by attending a high school game they typically are only seeing one player.

Way more opportunities at the club level if you play for the right team and in the right events. Careful research before you write checks is important

I think at this point you should save yourself some time and aggrevation by just letting your son enjoy the game. Evaluations are fun, especially when you hear what you want to hear but what will help him now and in the future is quality instruction for both offense and defense. Enjoy the game, it will become business soon enough and you will find yourself looking for the t ball field enjoying all the errors made by the players as I do.

Furry,

When I first started posting on HSBBW Bum, Jr. was a sophomore in h.s. They put him on J.V. while some of the other players who I thought were unworthy (parents did a lot of smooching the coach, donating, fundraising, etc.) were put on varsity.

At the time it p***** me off.

Fast forward. Bum, Jr. concentrated on becoming the best baseball player he could. I could write a book on the things he did between his sophomore season and senior season but the point being, he decided to train so hard his talent couldn't be denied.

And it wasn't.

You have a choice. Worry about these other players and the "politics" of h.s. baseball or help develop your player (your son) into a talent that can't be denied.

Talent. Does he have it? Forget about the players in h.s. H.S. baseball is wonderful, but his competition, should he want to go onto the next level, is not in h.s.

When Bum, Jr. was 15, 16, I did a lot of research into the pitching speeds of players a few years older than him. I became obsessed with velocity (Bum, Jr. is a pitcher) and was just like you, concerned about politics at the h.s. level.

As it turned out, my worries were unfounded.

Your player either has talent or not. Does he? Focus on his competition at the next level, not the current. Forge ahead.

Good luck.

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