New class system, allows for more movement- who goes up and who goes down?

From what I have heard its that West is moving down because like you said they lost Bedford, and possibly Goffstown because their population is low enough but they would be one of the schools to petition to play up for L baseball. I don't think that Plymouth would be a competitive team because moving up from M-L in my opinion is a major leap compared to I-L but obviously Portsmouth would be a good fit for this and eventually Bedford would be they have some very good ball players in their system.

Ironwill obviously you know what is going on in Class L.....is there any truth to Goffstown going down in all sports but it would only make sense for them to petition for L baseball... heard this possibly happening next year(2011) season....any truth?

ABC Plymouth is CLass I not M. I haven't heard of baseball going to Divisions over Class. Were can I find this information, is there already Divisions set up?

From what I have been told that decsion has not been made yet about Goffstown baseball. I believe the NHIAA has not set the enrollment number yet to decide where the cutoff line is. It will be very hard to petition down, but I suspect West has a legit case.
I can't see Goffstown moving to Division 2, IMO.

Ironwill can you answer my question please.

try this past week union leader....

Iron,

I talked with Hop at the football game on Friday. He said he got your message. I game him my 2 cents about scheduling the game. He said something about now the rules have changed he can do more things? I had no idea what he was talking about.

Sounded like he was more infavor of playing you in the scrimmage. We won't be as stong this year, it would have been more fun the last two years but I think it would be great for both teams.

To confirm, both our sceduled scrimmages last year were rained out - he said all teams were limited to two scrimmage dates?

here is what i got from my AD regarding the changes in all of NH high school sports not just baseball and softball.

Starting for 2010-2011, we will no longer classify schools as L,I,M,or S. They will now be classified as Div. I , II , III , and IV. By classifying schools in divisions it will allow schools to petition up as many levels as they want in a particular sport and also to petition down one level. In order to be allowed to petition up or down a team must meet certain criteria which the NHIAA will make public shortly but one of the major criteria's is the record of the team over the last 5 years.

Monty,
I ran into that with Kingswood. Apparently that was only a Class I thing. Class L teams could have as many scrimmages as they wanted (I had 10 last season). I suspect- I can't prove this- the I restrictions had something to do with Plymouth having close to 20 (according to their coach) scrimmages.
I know Hop wasn't dodging me, if it came out that way I definitely retract it- but I feel it would have been great games both years....
I hope to hear from him soon.
Plus, I would like to meet you and your son!

Iron,

Never gave it a thought about Hop dodging you although he is set in his ways. All teams should face the best competition they can, thats the only way to get better.

We are looking forward to meeting you also.

Here is the article from the Union Leader...

CONCORD – In a move aimed at giving schools greater freedom to place individual teams in specific divisions, the New Hampshire Interscholastic Athletic Association's governing council yesterday voted to revamp its classification system.

Currently, some sports are broken into classes, others into divisions, but beginning with the next academic year, Class L will become Division I, Class I Division II, Class M Division III and Class S Division IV, with schools with the largest enrollment in Division I.

The change isn't simply one of name. Also beginning next year, inter-division games and matches in sports currently operating under a class format will count in the standings. Sports already operating under a division format -- including football, hockey and girls' volleyball -- won't factor inter-division games into their standings until the next two-year scheduling cycle, beginning in 2012-13.

In what may be the biggest change, schools will be allowed to petition to move individual teams up or down in division. Under current policy, each school's athletic program shares a common classification within the L-I-M-S format.

Divisions will be based on enrollment, and moving a team up or down -- especially down -- won't be easy. Petitions must be approved by the NHIAA's classification committee and a 21-member council comprising principals, athletics directors, other administrators and coaches.

It was the council that approved the changes by majority vote yesterday, acting on a proposal brought forth by the NHIAA's classification sub-committee.

Steve Beals, principal at Laconia High, helped lead the ad hoc classification committee and develop yesterday's PowerPoint presentation, which stemmed from the NHIAA's annual meeting held last month.

Patrick Corbin, the NHIAA's executive director, gave his stamp of approval throughout the process, aimed at providing more parity among all sports.

"I'm certainly impressed with the dialogue and the fact people worked very hard on this. The direction is clear: We're moving toward a more equitable system of classification," Corbin said.

Other changes that will take effect for the two-year scheduling cycle beginning in the 2012-13 school year:

--The classification committee will use student enrollment, win/loss records and competitive history over a four-year span to determine divisions.

--Sport-specific committees at that point may recommend a new number of divisions for their respective sports.

Any teams beginning next fall will be allowed to petition to a division with a higher or lower base enrollment.

The issue of teams petitioning to move up or down has been the source of some concern across the state, with some administrators fearful of schools dropping down to feast on teams from schools with smaller enrollment. Corbin believes this won't be an issue.

"In my opinion, you will see very few downward petitions," Corbin said. "You'd have to meet some serious criteria to explain why you can't play at your current level. We'll be looking at feeder systems, competitive history, etc."

The NHIAA's classification committee will meet with sport-specific committees and discuss or reject petitions. Then recommendations will be presented to the council for final approval at its annual December meeting.

Dave Gosselin, athletics director of Manchester's public schools for 10 years, immediately recognized potential benefits from the changes.

"I personally think for teams from (Manchester High) West, who've been feeling the pinch of losing Bedford kids and losing teams (from lack of participation), this will be a good thing," Gosselin said. "Some schools and some programs, for whatever reason, get pounded all the time. This way makes it more competitive for everybody. This will give some teams a fighting chance."

Bob Royce, athletics director at Pinkerton Academy in Derry, said the revised classification format could use some tweaking -- and that will happen -- but overall it's a positive move for the NHIAA.

"The system we went through was very fair. Hey, now it's done and let's try to make it work the best we can," Royce said. "It's charting new territory in our state."

Football is already in Divisions and it isn't working, example, Plymouth is in D4, they have not lost a game in the last 5 seasons. This will be number 6, again they are 7-0 going into the playoffs and they kill everyone. Kennett (D4) plays John Stark (D3) every year, Kennett wins by at least 21 points. I think this system will allow connected coaches and schools to pick what divisions they want to be in so they can win. You will schools like Portsmouth and St. Thomas both Class I, want to be in D2, when they should be D1.

Fivehole...you have one problem with your argument...both Portsmouth and St. Thomas are Class I...Not Class L. The new alignment will also look at recent records and feeder programs. They say it will be very difficult to move down a division. Moving to 4 divisions will certainly improve football, not sure of the impact on the other sports.

Sandwich,
Football has 6 divisions, they re-did the divisions prior to last season. That was when Souhegan moved to D3. Plymouth should most likely be in D2. But I can see the same thing happening in baseball. AD's and coaches aren't some much concerned about the level of play, its about a winning program, so AD's and coaches with the right connections will play in the divisions they want to be in, and maybe not the division they SHOULD be playing in.

I was under the impression that all sports would have 4 divisions, however, if you read Gary Fitz's Telegraph article today, he says the following
"Instead of classes we’ll have divisions in every sport. The number of divisions per sport will be determined by each sport’s separate committee.
"

If they keep six divisions in football, then probably very little will change. Another factual item...Souhegan never moved...they have always been D3. When they realigned, it was Portsmouth that dropped from D2 to D3, and Plymouth that dropped from D3 to D4. Those changes have allowed both Souhegan and Plymouth to dominate their respective divisions for the past two years, where clearly, both could play at the D2 level and be competitive in football.

This is great I remember arguing with my college roommate and college teammate about the difference between Class L and the other Classes, from my understanding the best teams will be in Division 1 no arguements can be had, because if your team is really that good they will be playing in Division 1 correct?

Actually I just heard from a very reliable source that both Goffstown and West are moving down to Division 2. West due to the bedoford situation and Goffstown due to the enrollment number set by the committee placing them in D2. Portsmouth is also rumored to be staying in D2.
This news surprised me, but what can you do?

I think this is a good move. Going to Divisions will all schools with good feeder programs and successful individual sport history to move up, ie BG, Exeter, Souhegan, Plymouth in football, Portsmouth in baseball.

I can only speak from a Portsmouth perspective, if we had to move up in football our program would fold after a few years, we don't have the numbers and we would get crushed in an upper division. We have been ok the last three years but other than few teams, the competition has not been great In DIII, is there a Div II.5?

In basketball we could have competed up the last three years but watch out for this year, it could get ugly. The last few years we had 4 of 5 starters who only played basketball. That era has ended.

In baseball we would have been ok going up in 06,07 and 08. We can probably be fairly competitive in D-I for a few more years, as baseball is the towns most participatory sport (not saying we would win).

quote:

Originally posted by Ironwill:
Actually I just heard from a very reliable source that both Goffstown and West are moving down to Division 2. West due to the bedoford situation and Goffstown due to the enrollment number set by the committee placing them in D2. Portsmouth is also rumored to be staying in D2.
This news surprised me, but what can you do?

West would be moving down to Div 2, but Goffstown would actually be moving back up...they are currently in Div 3. Goffstown will be a doormat in Div 2 football...they are a mediocre D3 team now at best.

In baseball and other sports I believe that Goffstown is Class L. Defintely in baseball, them moving to D2 is a bit disappointing with them being such a solid baseball program, as a fan I like the talent they bring to the league.

quote:

Originally posted by LJ Sandwich:
West would be moving down to Div 2, but Goffstown would actually be moving back up...they are currently in Div 3. Goffstown will be a doormat in Div 2 football...they are a mediocre D3 team now at best.

Actually Goffstown is moving down as a whole sports program (outside of football apparently). They just miss the cut-off enrollment number for a division 1 school, which was reset this year. Goffstown is in Class L in all other sports, just not football.

The NHIAA move from "Classes" to "Divisions" only affects those sports which are currently divided into "Classes" - Baseball, Softball, Basketball, S****r, Field Hockey, Cross Country, Indoor & Outdoor Track.
The other sports like Football, Hockey and Lacrosse were already classified by Division.
Every 2 years the NHIAA re-classifies schools - they establish the cutoff for each class/division - in the past Class L was for schools with enrollment of 1201 and above. Goffstown's enrollment has recently been in the 1200-1300 range. I believe Ironwill is referring to the fact that the NHIAA has established a new number for Class L (now Division I)for those sports that used to be divided into classes and the new number is higher than Goffstown's current enrollment. The advantage of moving to divisions is that Goffstown can now petition to move up to Division I in Baseball (if they desire) without affecting any of the other sports.

an example of the petitioning up is Bishop Guertin, I believe if you look into it you will see they are under the previous cut off of enrollement of 1,000. This does not apply to the previously mentioned Football, Hockey or Lacrosse.