@PitchingFan posted:I ran a consulting company mainly for churches going through the interim process. I can tell 100s of stories just like you have described. When people tell me they don’t want God the first question I ask is what did a church do to you
Most of the people I know who won't go near a church were raised Catholic. I attended a Catholic funeral mass this week. All the rise, on your knees and be seated is a good workout. 
@TerribleBPthrower posted:One of my main issues with this is the way Deion handled it. No need to live-stream that. He basically live-streamed firing/cutting them. Imagine if you're the QB's parents and you're watching that. I get what he was thinking by doing it, I just personally lost respect for him for doing it.
The QB's father is a former NFL QB. He knows its a business. I'm betting his son and he had already discussed and planned transferring before Sanders spoke a word.
It wasn't a shock Karl Dorrell got fired. He's now wrecked two PAC 12 programs with his poor coaching and recruiting. He's a good guy who should be an assistant.
@RJM posted:The QB's father is a former NFL QB. He knows its a business. I'm betting his son and he had already discussed and planned transferring before Sanders spoke a word.
It wasn't a shock Karl Dorrell got fired. He's now wrecked two PAC 12 programs with his poor coaching and recruiting. He's a good guy who should be an assistant.
I knew that, but there are other QB's too. Just a really bad approach IMO. I have no problem pulling them aside or even doing it without the camera. Those kids were super excited to get to meet the coach who was going to turn their program around only to tell them to hit the portal instead.
I am still trying to figure out how he got away with meeting with the Colorado team, filming it and still coaching JSU.
That's just wrong.
Because JSU wants him that bad. They want the undefeated season so they let him do what he wanted. I have seen other coaches do it. I've always thought it was classless when a coach took a new job and did not finish out with his old team. I understand both sides but I understand JSU gave him permission.
I will say not a fan of the social media stuff but I am old. i don't see the need for putting everything out there but maybe that's why no one has approached me about giving me money for my social media.
@PitchingFan posted:Because JSU wants him that bad. They want the undefeated season so they let him do what he wanted. I have seen other coaches do it. I've always thought it was classless when a coach took a new job and did not finish out with his old team. I understand both sides but I understand JSU gave him permission.
I will say not a fan of the social media stuff but I am old. i don't see the need for putting everything out there but maybe that's why no one has approached me about giving me money for my social media.
What lessons are they teaching these young men?
The entire fiasco went bad.
For those of you critical of Sanders, it has come to light that JSU may have not honored some financial aspects of his contract. Keep in mind this is after he used a decent percentage of his coaching salary to improve the facilities. If what is being discussed is true, not only would he be justified in leaving, it would take a man of high character not to go public with the information.
Sanders has a net worth of about 40m and is going to CU that does not have the funds in place to guarantee his salary. Too much controversy.
Let's see how that works out.
Colorado University has a 2 billion dollar endowment and plenty of affluent donors that like athletics. So yeah, we will see how it works out. My money is on Sanders.
@adbono posted:Colorado University has a 2 billion dollar endowment and plenty of affluent donors that like athletics. So yeah, we will see how it works out. My money is on Sanders.
Donors have to abide by NCAA and conference rules, bylaws, etc.
I don't believe endowments and gift giving covers coaches salaries.
Universities tend to find a way to use their money however they want. You seem to want to talk about all the reasons you think it won’t work. I see it differently. I think it will work. Time will tell.
@adbono posted:For those of you critical of Sanders, it has come to light that JSU may have not honored some financial aspects of his contract. Keep in mind this is after he used a decent percentage of his coaching salary to improve the facilities. If what is being discussed is true, not only would he be justified in leaving, it would take a man of high character not to go public with the information.
I can't find any info regarding the above statement, other than he used his own money, which he has enough of, voluntarily, to make improvements and he will owe JSU 300k on his buyout. He obviously didn't leave for more money as there is only a discussion and no actual contract.
Can you provide any info on what you wrote?
If there is controversy, why would anyone be surprised. He has done his share to help create it, IMO.
People greatly admired what he set out to do, not what he is doing now and how he went about it. IMO, they have a right to be critical and to Colorado as well.
Not only that, he is sending notice to the college football world, watch out, I am coming to get your guys, like he is angry and out to punish.
I just don't find that appealing.
I never said it wouldnt work. I question, like many others do, his original intent going to Jackson and then leaving in the manner in which he is.
@RJM posted:Most of the people I know who won't go near a church were raised Catholic. I attended a Catholic funeral mass this week. All the rise, on your knees and be seated is a good workout.
My single parent dad worked nights and didn't go to mass, but I was expected to go and return with the program as proof. Before I got smart enough to just go into the hall where they served donuts and coffee after mass and grab a free donut and a left behind program I dutifully attended mass by myself. I was around 10 or 11 when priest engaged me in a conversation at front of the church while I was attempting to make my getaway (note to self, use the side exits going forward). Anyway, I asked him if we could reorder the mass - "Could we do all the standing first, because it's the hardest, then do all the kneeling stuff next, because it's the second hardest and then be able to just sit for the rest of the mass?" I think I got a chuckle and the father, and he said that if he did that, everyone would be asleep by the end of mass... I think this was and indication that I was headed toward my career in operations management and a continuous improvement mindset.
If you spent anytime in a Catholic school (or know someone that did) and have never seen this from Dave Allen I highly recommend it: Dave Allen on Religion
Dave Allen was great, here's one on teaching his kid how to tell time: Teaching to tell time
Sanders had a bonus clause in his contract that was tied to ticket sales/attendance. It appears that Jackson State my have gotten shady to avoid paying the bonuses. Jackso State is denying this, of course. But I believe Sanders is more honest that the university administration at Jackson State - or anywhere else for that matter. Also, Sanders owes half of the 300k for leaving before the end of his contract - not all of it
@adbono posted:Sanders had a bonus clause in his contract that was tied to ticket sales/attendance. It appears that Jackson State my have gotten shady to avoid paying the bonuses. Jackso State is denying this, of course. But I believe Sanders is more honest that the university administration at Jackson State - or anywhere else for that matter. Also, Sanders owes half of the 300k for leaving before the end of his contract - not all of it
I haven't seen any of that maybe you can share that info.
Sanders will owe half of the 300k only if Ashley Robinson remains the AD.
Maybe Sanders is honest but his integrity is suspect.
If a baseball coach did this many of you would not have kind words to say.
Why is this different?
Is this what you are talking about?
@TPM posted:I can't find any info regarding the above statement, other than he used his own money, which he has enough of, voluntarily, to make improvements and he will owe JSU 300k on his buyout. He obviously didn't leave for more money as there is only a discussion and no actual contract.
Can you provide any info on what you wrote?
If there is controversy, why would anyone be surprised. He has done his share to help create it, IMO.
People greatly admired what he set out to do, not what he is doing now and how he went about it. IMO, they have a right to be critical and to Colorado as well.
Not only that, he is sending notice to the college football world, watch out, I am coming to get your guys, like he is angry and out to punish.
I just don't find that appealing.
I never said it wouldnt work. I question, like many others do, his original intent going to Jackson and then leaving in the manner in which he is.
@JucoDad posted:My single parent dad worked nights and didn't go to mass, but I was expected to go and return with the program as proof. Before I got smart enough to just go into the hall where they served donuts and coffee after mass and grab a free donut and a left behind program I dutifully attended mass by myself. I was around 10 or 11 when priest engaged me in a conversation at front of the church while I was attempting to make my getaway (note to self, use the side exits going forward). Anyway, I asked him if we could reorder the mass - "Could we do all the standing first, because it's the hardest, then do all the kneeling stuff next, because it's the second hardest and then be able to just sit for the rest of the mass?" I think I got a chuckle and the father, and he said that if he did that, everyone would be asleep by the end of mass... I think this was and indication that I was headed toward my career in operations management and a continuous improvement mindset.
If you spent anytime in a Catholic school (or know someone that did) and have never seen this from Dave Allen I highly recommend it: Dave Allen on Religion
Dave Allen was great, here's one on teaching his kid how to tell time: Teaching to tell time
I was at a mass this week for a friend. I think the Catholic Church is in cahoots with the dry cleaners to remove pants creases with all the kneeling. 😁
It may not be nice but if a baseball coach did it I would not have a problem with it. That is why I tell everybody to have a Plan B. As long as you’re trying to play the game, you better have a Plan B. And probably a C and D. It is no different than what we tell people all the time. You better know how long the couches been there and how successful they’ve been. Because if they have not been winning, they will probably be replaced.
These are all rumors to the entire situation going around also stated in the article.
As I stated Sanders has always been surrounded by some controversary. I don't feel badly for him or the schools involved, but the players.
As I said a few posts back, let's see how this pans out.
@PitchingFan posted:It may not be nice but if a baseball coach did it I would not have a problem with it. That is why I tell everybody to have a Plan B. As long as you’re trying to play the game, you better have a Plan B. And probably a C and D. It is no different than what we tell people all the time. You better know how long the couches been there and how successful they’ve been. Because if they have not been winning, they will probably be replaced.
Everyone should have a plan B, we all know that.
And we all know if you don't win, you are gone.
I would be a little nervous if I were the AD at Colorado.
@RJM posted:I was at a mass this week for a friend. I think the Catholic Church is in cahoots with the dry cleaners to remove pants creases with all the kneeling. 😁
I'm pretty sure I ducked a backhand when I told my dad I was giving up Catholicism for lent in my early teens. Getting your hands smacked with a ruler, mouth washed out with soap or forced to kneel on rice by a nun in parochial school was a unique experience. Being Catholic is something that's impossible to shed, you're either practicing or not practicing but it's always there...
@JucoDad posted:I'm pretty sure I ducked a backhand when I told my dad I was giving up Catholicism for lent in my early teens. Getting your hands smacked with a ruler, mouth washed out with soap or forced to kneel on rice by a nun in parochial school was a unique experience. Being Catholic is something that's impossible to shed, you're either practicing or not practicing but it's always there...
Jon Stewart had a great line about absolution. He said the great thing about being Jewish is getting absolution at wholesale prices. One day (Yom Kippur) and you’re absolved. It takes Catholics forty days.
@PABaseball posted:I really only have two issues
1. Telling the kids to transfer without individual meetings first.
2. Naming his son the starting QB
I get it, you have to let him bring in his own staff and do it his way but below a pretty bizarre comment to make coming from an FCS school. You want to get rid of some guys, assess the situation, talk to the roster about expectations and playing time and go from there. Not being given a chance to compete is beyond unfair.
“We got a few positions already taken care of because I’m bringing my own luggage with me,” “And it’s Louis, OK?”
College Football for the most part has become a 7 or 7 drill.
Didn't Lincoln Riley do the same with Caleb Williams when he went to USC?
A head coach that is trying to make a quick impact will bring his play caller (extension of HC) to run his offense. In this case its Deion's son.
@TPM posted:Donors have to abide by NCAA and conference rules, bylaws, etc.
and in todays NLI world the relevance is exactly what? the rules are muddle nobody knows what they are, how would you even enforce a rule that isn't clear? it is the wild west out there right now and if you don't think schools / coaches are moving funds or directing the movement of funds well God bless!!
@old_school posted:and in todays NLI world the relevance is exactly what? the rules are muddle nobody knows what they are, how would you even enforce a rule that isn't clear? it is the wild west out there right now and if you don't think schools / coaches are moving funds or directing the movement of funds well God bless!!
That’s exactly what I meant when I said that schools have a way of using their money to get what they want.
An endowment has to have a specific legal purpose and only after that then funds from the investments can be used.
NIL has nothing to do with endowments.
Please explain how coaches use funds that do not belong to them without oversite.
Endowments are part of the university fund raising and they come more restrictions, but you already know this. I think where we differ is the creativity that can be used to work around rules that are say inconvenient.
I have seen much in over the years in sports, business and life in general the way accounting and attorneys, creative thinkers, people who don't mind operating in the "gray area" or follow the "spirit of the rule" as opposed to the letter. This world isn't black and white and where there is money to be made creativity will flourish.
Blanket statements about who has to abide by said rules is just factually and historically incorrect.
@PitchingFan posted:“LSU is the prime example of how a new coach comes in, in today's world and makes changes to get new results.”
I have no dog in this fight. Just found this curious. I don’t know the new coach at LSU. But to say he came in and changed things to get new results?? Not sure what that means. Since 1990, no player that played at LSU for 4 years missed a trip to Omaha. Let that sink in. The baseball culture at LSU was set by Skip. Any future coach is just trying to live up to that. The new coach did clean house. But it’s gonna be pretty difficult to improve the culture of baseball at LSU to get new results. LSU has won the CWS 6 times since 1991and has made 18 appearances overall. I’m not tooting LSU baseball horn, just saying that example might not have been the best. No disrespect, but LSU baseball is NO COMPARISON to Colorado football.
Unless I read something wrong. They have not been to CWS since 2017. That would be a down time for them. Before that the longest time without getting to CWS was 3 years back to, as you say 1990. I did not say they were bad in respect to all baseball but just to their level of success. You can't say that Johnson did not revamp the roster last year and got a lot of guys out of the transfer portal to make sure they win. It was not a shot at LSU but just a statement that he was given a large sum of money to buy the best team out there to win another National Championship and he spent his money wisely in the transfer portal. Now we will see if the money was well spent in results. He was given the money with the task of "getting new results" as to an article written about LSU baseball in their own paper. I just quoted them that he was to get new results.
@PitchingFan posted:It was not a shot at LSU but just a statement that he was given a large sum of money to buy the best team out there to win another National Championship and he spent his money wisely in the transfer portal.
The fact that is completely accurate says something about the state of college sports in general. It is now just another minor league system, that apparently pays better!!
I posted in the original NIL thread that this would change the face of college sports forever, maybe it is better maybe it is worse but you can throw the history out it is a new world.
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:Didn't Lincoln Riley do the same with Caleb Williams when he went to USC?
A head coach that is trying to make a quick impact will bring his play caller (extension of HC) to run his offense. In this case its Deion's son.
I do not have an issue with him bringing his son in. Sanders is a HOF player, he has the credibility to decide if his son is talented enough to play there. I'm sure his son will do well at the next level. That being said, there are some pretty big differences between what happened at USC and what is happening at Colorado.
1. Caleb Williams was moving from P5 program to P5 program, something Sander's son is not doing. USC is in a less competitive conference and has not had anywhere near the success OU has had in recent years. Sander's kid will be moving up essentially two levels. Williams was already extremely impressive as a true freshman after winning the starting job.
2. Williams was not named the starting QB prior to his transfer. Other QBs on USC's campus had the option to stay and fight it out (which would have been a poor choice for them). At Colorado, there will not be a fight, the result of the race has already been determined without Sanders evaluating whether maybe one of these other kids is talented enough to take over. Williams was a proven stud and a Heisman favorite for the following year. Sanders named his kid the starting QB despite never having played the higher level comp.
It's the equivalent of a D2 coach coming and saying this is my son, he's your new catcher. Sure there are plenty of high quality D2s, some better than plenty of D1s. And yeah he may be good, but how about we find out first before handing him the job. Same applies to their competitive FCS school and talented players.
When you just name your kid the starting QB without assessing the current QBs, without seeing what other QBs are in the portal, it doesn't look like you have the best interest in the program. It looks like you have the best interests of the family.
Question
who is his agent?
Bob
@PABaseball posted:I do not have an issue with him bringing his son in. Sanders is a HOF player, he has the credibility to decide if his son is talented enough to play there. I'm sure his son will do well at the next level. That being said, there are some pretty big differences between what happened at USC and what is happening at Colorado.
1. Caleb Williams was moving from P5 program to P5 program, something Sander's son is not doing. USC is in a less competitive conference and has not had anywhere near the success OU has had in recent years. Sander's kid will be moving up essentially two levels. Williams was already extremely impressive as a true freshman after winning the starting job.
2. Williams was not named the starting QB prior to his transfer. Other QBs on USC's campus had the option to stay and fight it out (which would have been a poor choice for them). At Colorado, there will not be a fight, the result of the race has already been determined without Sanders evaluating whether maybe one of these other kids is talented enough to take over. Williams was a proven stud and a Heisman favorite for the following year. Sanders named his kid the starting QB despite never having played the higher level comp.
It's the equivalent of a D2 coach coming and saying this is my son, he's your new catcher. Sure there are plenty of high quality D2s, some better than plenty of D1s. And yeah he may be good, but how about we find out first before handing him the job. Same applies to their competitive FCS school and talented players.
When you just name your kid the starting QB without assessing the current QBs, without seeing what other QBs are in the portal, it doesn't look like you have the best interest in the program. It looks like you have the best interests of the family.
Caleb Williams situation is simple. Officially or unofficially named, he was the starting QB day
He already ran Lincoln Riley's offense, so the other QBs had little to no chance.
Deion Sanders basically did the same thing, his son knows how to run his offense.
I think it all boils down to whether or not you like Deion Sanders as a former player, as a coach, and as a person. Deion is a polarizing personality so not many people are ambivalent about him. I happen to like him. IMO he was an incredible player, has shown that he is a good coach (even w/o a ton of experience), and looks to be an effective leader of young men. So I see nothing wrong with anything he has done. However, if you feel differently than I do and don’t like Sanders there is plenty to pick away at if you are so inclined.
@PitchingFan posted:If it happened and my son was a catcher, he would be in transfer portal. Life is not fair. Always have a plan B. I may not like it but again I would respect the honesty. I can’t get that people can’t respect the truth.
I think they can, but would prefer integrity and a fair shot.
Do you really think when a coach brings in a high profile transfer that there is truly a fair shot? I think most of the time when a coach brings in a high profile player, that position is his in all sports. I am one of the few, obviously, who appreciates coaches who tell it like it is rather people will like it or not. If you don't have a plan for me in my job or my son in baseball then tell me so I can move on rather than lead me on. I appreciate coaches who tell players that they don't have a plan to use them. I've also learned that most of those coaches will also do a good job of helping players find a place to land, not all, but most.
In Deion Sanders professional career he does not stay in one place more than 5 yrs.
Now here is a interesting slant.
Deion's son was a 4 star recruit. Dad wanted him to player SS, I mean QB. So he told Jackson State, I'm the pied piper baby. I can bring $$$ to Jackson and the HBCU because I'm Prime Time.
Using whatever resources available he's made the program vastly improved, better exposure to HBCU, better talent. all benefited.
Deion was successful, he might have left after the 2021 season but loss in the championship.
By going to Colorado, it serves 2 purposes:
1 - Primetime coaching for next 3 to 5 yrs.
2 - Son professional aspirations (maybe a Tyron Taylor type), QB (jet offense) or slot receiver.
@CollegebaseballInsights posted:Caleb Williams situation is simple. Officially or unofficially named, he was the starting QB day
He already ran Lincoln Riley's offense, so the other QBs had little to no chance.
Deion Sanders basically did the same thing, his son knows how to run his offense.
Not disputing that. Williams was transferring from a more competitive program in a stronger conference. Sanders will be doing the opposite, his son will be climbing essentially two levels.
Williams had proven himself as a heisman level QB a year ago. Sander's kid has not done that.
Williams was better than everybody on the USC roster. There is a chance Sander's son is not. For him to be named the starter without proving himself is not putting the program's best interests first. If you can't see the difference I don't know what to say.
Is he better than the other options? Probably. Should he have been handed the starting job without proving he's the guy? No.
That is my only argument. Sanders is a HOF player, he knows what he is doing. The way he's doing it does not sit well with me. Wish them all well next season.
CBI;
Please note the agency for Dion Sanders. It is "show business" with U of Colorado the stage and Dion the "Conductor"
Bob
