New Findings

I hope and expect TALENT is what put them in the top 50 instead of their place of birth. I did notice some foreign born players in MILB that were unpolished that had exceptional raw talent.
Fungo

Yes, I like those numbers, just selfish towards the USA players. But thats how it is.

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Hmmmm? I think it best that we check their birth certificates very, very closely!


.

I demand a recount !!

I am good enough and doggone it, I demand a recount

I know in some countries that a certain percentage of players on the teams have to be native to that country. We do not have any such rule correct?
So I guess technically we could have a team of Dominicans playing a team of Japanese.

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Would that qualify as "out-sourcing"?

cadDAD



If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free!



.

Hey careful, in my line of work those are very scary words!

Out-sourcing.....yikes......one day all of the HSBBW moderators may be based in Bangalore.

Did anyone see the "30 Days" episode where the American guy went and spent 30 days working in a call-help-center in India? Interesting stuff.

But, yes, I'd say those numbers surprise me. Didn't read the article, but saw a headline the other day that spoke of a new baseball academy being built in Brazil. Korea already is one big baseball academy, but many of the players simply lack the size. Will someone in India now decide it's a great place to put up a baseball academy? And China - out of those teeming masses, how many 'naturals' are out there somewhere? It's almost mind-boggling.

Guys:

Isn't this what we want? The spread of the greatest game ever to every corner of the globe? As long as the Sox keep signing the best pitchers our of Asia, I'm good with it!

Me too, as long as the Cubs keep signing the best outfielders.

Oh, wait...

quote:

Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
Me too, as long as the Cubs keep signing the best outfielders.

Oh, wait...

It's a bitter pill...or so I'm told...can you say Carlos Quentin?

Sorry I can't help it, when I see lists like this.

More than half or 23 of the 41 born in the USA attended the PG National Showcase. 30 of the 41 born in the USA played in the PG WWBA Championship in Jupiter.

Before anyone gets excited, we had nothing to do with how good they are or that they made this list. Just proud of the fact we got to see them and know them.

quote:

Originally posted by CPLZ:

quote:

Originally posted by Holden Caulfield:
Me too, as long as the Cubs keep signing the best outfielders.

Oh, wait...

It's a bitter pill...or so I'm told...can you say Carlos Quentin?

Can you say "I think I'll hit myself with a baseball bat today and miss the rest of the season?"

Wow, those are definitely interesting numbers. I wonder if it is a fluke or a trend.. I guess we'll see next year. It makes me wonder if the spread of top travel ball has finally given U.S. players the upper-hand. Thanks for sharing.

I've heard that 25% of major league players are from Southern California. Does anyone have stats to confirm/deny that?

90% of the men that tried camels prefered woman.now that's troubling.

I don't care where they're from, I'm just happy this post is still in English and I can read it. '

Fungo

That statement is becoming more critical every minute.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
I don't care where they're from, I'm just happy this post is still in English and I can read it. '

Amen!

quote:

Originally posted by 20dad:
90% of the men that tried camels prefered woman.now that's troubling.

What about guys who tried Marlboros?

quote:

Originally posted by PGStaff:
Sorry I can't help it, when I see lists like this.

More than half or 23 of the 41 born in the USA attended the PG National Showcase. 30 of the 41 born in the USA played in the PG WWBA Championship in Jupiter.

Before anyone gets excited, we had nothing to do with how good they are or that they made this list. Just proud of the fact we got to see them and know them.

Yet there are folks on message boards, not so much here anymore, that insist that the only way to get on a PG list, or drafted for that matter, is to pay a showcase fee. It boggles the mind sometimes.

Dad04,

Thanks,

I don't post on any board except ours and "mostly" this one. I've found that the people here, like yourself, are by far the most knowledgable. To be honest, it's just a better more experienced crowd and for the most part nicer people.

I've often said and others have confirmed that a player doesn't have to pay anything to be ranked by us. We just need to see the player, but not necessarily at one of our events. It just so happens that our major emphasis is always to get the top players to our events and we usually accomplish that. So in the end I can see where someone might look at the results and think that you have to pay. Truth is we do make mistakes even with players who have attended our events. Sometimes our mistake involves the fact that we have ranked players too low or not at all that actually did attend.

One of my close friends who periodically views this site once mentioned to me that I'm stupid for telling people they don't need to attend a PG event. He said that it would be better if everyone thought they actually did have to go to a PG event in order to be ranked.

So maybe, on those other boards, the people saying those things are indirectly doing us a favor. Perhaps you could thank them for us? On here, I would rather stick with the truth because there are too many people here who actually know the truth.

That truth is... There is no such thing as any single event that is so important that it will harm a player who doesn't attend. That obviously includes Perfect Game events. And no one can pay to be ranked or be unranked for not paying!

BTW,

41 of the 41 we had ranked.
Obviously some did not attend a PG event.

I only frequent one other high school board, not the PG board so much anymore, but I agree the intelligence quotiant is definately different here. Less agendas here also, I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
I don't care where they're from, I'm just happy this post is still in English and I can read it. '

I care where they're from. MLB, in its purest form, should be a meritocracy. But MLB is a business and doesn't see it that way.

If MLB was an honest meritocracy, the players in the Minor Leagues and Major Leagues would reflect much more closely the demographics of the major college feeder program. But MLB passes over many of these kids as they fill their Minor League system with 50% plus foreign players. Most of these foreign players are not very good and the stats TRHit showed bear this out.

Many people think that MLB is doing the right thing by going to these countries and setting up shop to give the kids from these countries a helping hand. But I say, why isn't MLB giving my son a hand as well. Here in N.J., MLB doesn't offer a single program for kids. There is no assistance for High Schools or Colleges. There may be a program in the inner cities because MLB felt it prudent to avoid the negative publicity, but overall, MLB offers nothing to 99% of American kids.

In fact, MLB actually takes away from our kids as it strives to be artificially all-inclusive.

But as much as I disagree with the way MLB runs its business, I am even more amazed and disheartened at how many people on this site support their immoral and probably illegal practices.

Dear Old Dad,
You may, after my post think I am one of those that supports their immoral and illegal practice.

FWIW, due to NCAA rules, no professional team can offer any assistance to any HS or college player for free.

Here's my thoughts. First, I have seen over the past several years the emergence of scout teams. Good scout teams, run by real good scouts who want to help young players develop the skills needed to advance to pro baseball. That didn't even exist when my son was in HS.

Why should MLB dump money into programs when so many players in the US have so many other options in life? How many HS players actually participate in just one sport in HS? Would you want to put time, money and effort into a project if you most likely would not get a return on your investment?

Why should they do anything when most players out of high school will not accept their apprentice salary to go play, for obvious reasons (low pay) and most head off to college.

Where would they get the players to field the teams?

I know that this is very hard to understand, perhaps because of where I come from there is much diversity. I understand because most people here won't take half of the jobs (maybe not lately due to economy ) others will take (for less pay). Not sure about where you come from, but here, americans don't change sheetsm clean toilets in hotel rooms, clean bathrooms and floors, dump garbage for minimum wage, etc. Same way with entry level pro baseball for most HS players. It's not a life many american teens are accustomed to living, or will accept, sleeping on coaches or air mattresses, ham sandwiches because you can't afford the rent or food in certain towns. College may be a better option for many to grow and mature, more of the american way of life and a bit easier to adjusts to, losing some of your comforts from home.

I remember seeing a program on Hanley Rimerez, when he was very young his father enrolled him in one of the schools very far from their home. I personally couldn't do that and I suppose neither could most of us so that is why they seek out other avenues to look for players. BTW, he lives with his parents along with his wife and child in Miami, after being seperated from them for so many years. Would your kids do that, NO WAY. Would I want to do that, NO WAY.

Just some thoughts on your post.

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
Most of these foreign players are not very good and the stats TRHit showed bear this out.

Wow, I doubt that. Baseball is a business and they are going to hire the best. If they do not, they are going to PAY by fielding a losing team.

There is probably no doubt that in some respects an American ballplayer is at a disadvantage to due to weather (perhaps) and the utilization of foreign academies, etc. but he is also at an advantage by refining his skills in college, exposure through showcases, and skill-development by playing on select Summer teams.

Truly, as baseball becomes more "international" it also opens up a lot of opportunities for American players to play professionally in other countries, perhaps offsetting the competition these players face at home.

Now, if we could just export it to the Middle-East. Perhaps then the only bombs that fly would be over the right-field wall.

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
Most of these foreign players are not very good and the stats TRHit showed bear this out.

Wow, I doubt that. Baseball is a business and they are going to hire the best. If they do not, they are going to PAY by fielding a losing team.

Bum, I hate to be the one to tell you the bad news. But many MLB owners couldn't care less if their team wins or loses. Making as much money as they can off of the team is the only goal of many owners.


TPM, I respect your views but I don't understand why you keep saying that American kids won't play baseball for small wages. You have mentioned it before in another thread and I couldn't disagree with your views more. I also don't think you should be speaking for the kids.

My son had a pro tryout during the summer before starting college and the scout running the tryout showed no interest in him and offered him nothing. So why shouldn't my son choose to go to college. He will develop and grow there and if he produces at a high enough level, MLB may give him an opportunity then. And believe me, whatever offer they make him he would jump at it.

quote:

Here's my thoughts. First, I have seen over the past several years the emergence of scout teams. Good scout teams, run by real good scouts who want to help young players develop the skills needed to advance to pro baseball. That didn't even exist when my son was in HS.

tpm
in all fairness,these players were very good when they joined the scout team. if these scouts grabbed kids out of the phone book ,then i'd be impressed.

i think you are talking about the higher draft picks. out of the 1500 kids that are drafted,that doesn't really speak to the masses.imho. most don't have a full boat scholly to fall back on.

i truly believe for most,not all. drafted players it isn't really about the money. it's more about the chance,it's usually only A chance. a one time shot to impress. that can be the deciding factor.am i ready? is this where i belong? not so much money.


most publications don't write about the 20th round kids ,unless they have made it. there are more kids that sign for little money,than big money. just my opinion though.

It's still the "Great American Pastime", it's just the "Pastime" has a new meaning!

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
Bum, I hate to be the one to tell you the bad news.

No, no.. please do enlighten me.

quote:

Originally posted by Bum:

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
Bum, I hate to be the one to tell you the bad news.

No, no.. please do enlighten me.

No, no Bum, enlighten ME, please!

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
TPM, I respect your views but I don't understand why you keep saying that American kids won't play baseball for small wages. You have mentioned it before in another thread and I couldn't disagree with your views more. I also don't think you should be speaking for the kids.

My son had a pro tryout during the summer before starting college and the scout running the tryout showed no interest in him and offered him nothing. So why shouldn't my son choose to go to college. He will develop and grow there and if he produces at a high enough level, MLB may give him an opportunity then. And believe me, whatever offer they make him he would jump at it.

I respect your views too but here'a a question. If the scout noticed and the team drafted your son, would he have signed and given up college for no bonus money?
Would he be willing to come home in the off season after every part of his body aches from a long season and gone to work for 4-5 months, also while having to condition and get ready for the new season to begin? Would he have been happy in rookie complex ball, up at 6am, done by 1pm with nothing to do until 6 am the next day, maybe for a year or two out of HS, depending on the drafting teams lower levels.....for nothing.

Most of our kids, when faced with reality, do not want to do the above out of HS, unless there is some money attached or you can possibly supplement his living expenses. Would your son, let's say for an example the star ss in HS, be happy sitting as the second or third string most games?

So that's why the complex and lowest rookie teams are filled with international players, they will do it. They eat rice and beans everyday to save money for when they go back home. I am not sure but mine couldn't live on rice and beans.

As far as talent, I really can't compare, most of son's team milb rosters are not foreign born. But I have seen some pretty talented foreign born players on other teams who did NOT attend college. I am happy to see that most prospects are american, but do remember one thing, most teams do not let top foreign prospects come here until they are older, then have some catchup to do. JMO.
I am under the impression that the emergance of scout teams has produced some really good players over the past several years, and I also agree that showcases and skill camps have helped improve our players skills.

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
No, no Bum, enlighten ME, please!

Ok, I'll try. The fact is, most MLB teams LOSE money on a year-to-year operating basis. To a lot of these owners their team is a trophy and their pride would not let them accept losing on a consistent basis. They are in the public spotlight with reporters, friends, other owners.. they do, in fact, want to win even if they lose money that year. And they can, because they are extremely rich guys.

Besides, the real money is when they sell the team a few years down the road. And guess what--a winning team can be sold for far more.

Now, some are more pragmatic than others when spending money--Oakland comes to mind--but there is no way you can convince me this business is not about winning. Winning sells tickets. Tickets equals revenue. If I can win with 25 guys from Guatemala I will. 25 Americans. 25 circus clowns. Whatever it takes.

quote:

Originally posted by TPM:

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
TPM, I respect your views but I don't understand why you keep saying that American kids won't play baseball for small wages. You have mentioned it before in another thread and I couldn't disagree with your views more. I also don't think you should be speaking for the kids.

My son had a pro tryout during the summer before starting college and the scout running the tryout showed no interest in him and offered him nothing. So why shouldn't my son choose to go to college. He will develop and grow there and if he produces at a high enough level, MLB may give him an opportunity then. And believe me, whatever offer they make him he would jump at it.

I respect your views too but here'a a question. If the scout noticed and the team drafted your son, would he have signed and given up college for no bonus money?
Would he be willing to come home in the off season after every part of his body aches from a long season and gone to work for 4-5 months, also while having to condition and get ready for the new season to begin? Would he have been happy in rookie complex ball, up at 6am, done by 1pm with nothing to do until 6 am the next day, maybe for a year or two out of HS, depending on the drafting teams lower levels.....for nothing.

Most of our kids, when faced with reality, do not want to do the above out of HS, unless there is some money attached or you can possibly supplement his living expenses. Would your son, let's say for an example the star ss in HS, be happy sitting as the second or third string most games?

So that's why the complex and lowest rookie teams are filled with international players, they will do it. They eat rice and beans everyday to save money for when they go back home. I am not sure but mine couldn't live on rice and beans.

As far as talent, I really can't compare, most of son's team milb rosters are not foreign born. But I have seen some pretty talented foreign born players on other teams who did NOT attend college. I am happy to see that most prospects are american, but do remember one thing, most teams do not let top foreign prospects come here until they are older, then have some catchup to do. JMO.
I am under the impression that the emergance of scout teams has produced some really good players over the past several years, and I also agree that showcases and skill camps have helped improve our players skills.

TPM,

Foreign players are not supermen, able to withstand hardships orinary American men cannot. They don't run faster, jump higher or leap tall buildings in a single bound. But they do get more help along the way from MLB, which is one of my issues with MLB.

As for my son, his mom was born and raised in Costa Rica before coming to America. He and the rest of our family have eaten rice & beans many many times. It's not too bad if you soak the beans for 24 hours first.

It's hard for me to say what choice my son would have made had MLB made him an offer out of H.S. But I do know that if MLB makes him an offer out of college, any offer, he will take it. And he will love every minute of every day as a Professional baseball player, whether he is sore from playing every day or restless because he is riding the pine. Whether he is getting up at 5:00a.m. or working a job and working out in the offseason. He will love it.

quote:

If I can win with 25 guys from Guatemala I will. 25 Americans. 25 circus clowns. Whatever it takes.

I'm just curious how many of these "Non-Americans" that take a spot from a kid who opted to go the college route to get an education actually end up getting an education themselves. Does MLB guarantee these kids an education if baseball doesn't work out.
Do the kids go back to their respective countries and play streetball again because they are no use to society either here or over there. I would love to see what happens to these kids that were brought over here at the "whatever it takes mentality" and failed because athletics did not work out and academics were never an option.

quote:

Originally posted by Dear old Dad:
It's hard for me to say what choice my son would have made had MLB made him an offer out of H.S. But I do know that if MLB makes him an offer out of college, any offer, he will take it. And he will love every minute of every day as a Professional baseball player, whether he is sore from playing every day or restless because he is riding the pine. Whether he is getting up at 5:00a.m. or working a job and working out in the offseason. He will love it.

You are not getting my point.

You stated that you don't know what your son would have done out of HS. He would have had to think about it obviously like most, because he had options. This has nothing to do with signing out of college, most of our players don't think twice about signing as juniors or seniors out of college and the signing bonus becomes less important. Most (I say most) college signees go into leagues playing against those of their age in the short season leagues. When son was drafted, most of the players on his team were college guys. Short season out of college is a good transition for them. There is no transition between HS and complex rookie ball, unless you have gotten a bonus for that transition. By 22-23 they have learned how to budget, be responsible, condition and eat well, and understand how to fill the voids by not getting in trouble and show up on time for work. That's why we sent our so college first.
If they have to supplement their salary, it's much easier finding a job, then 18 out of HS. They return to school to finish their degrees, having only a semester or two or left with degree in hand. The homesick period passed by years ago.

Those options that our kids have is a reason why milb is loaded with foreign born players, they don't have the options and milb needs players to field their teams. They are willing to particiapte in the lower levels of milb where most of our kids won't. That's why MLB does what it does in international poor countries where they have no other options. If drafting out of HS is a no brainer, everyone of our kids would have signed right out of HS. Just take a look at some teams and notice that half of their draft HS class doesn't sign, they head off to college. Take a look at most complex rookie or first level low A rookie teams, many are rostered with foreign orn players. The MLB parent team needs players for their prospects.

BTW, as you go up the through the system you might find that tends to thin out (more international players). Some teams are so unwilling to give young HS prospects a decent signing bonus, you don't see more americans until you reach AA.

You feel that milb should prepare our sons better for a professional life, I do not agree. Why should they take the time and money to do so when a 17,18 year old has other options to consider?

As a potential employer, I know that I am not going to invest $$ in a future potential employee if he isn't going to consider working for me later on. Would you?

I hope you get my point.

TPM,

I am inclined to agree with you that our H.S. kids have other options than going into the lower levels of professional baseball and failing because they couldn't handle everything that goes with it.

But what excuse does MLB have for not drafting more D1 college kids? Every year talented American college kids don't get drafted because the minor leagues have so many foreign players. Are all these foreign players better than the many excellent D1 players that MLB passes over? I don't think so. The minor leagues could and should have many more american players. But the politics of MLB will not let that happen.

I have no doubt that I could find two pitchers from D1 ball not drafted that are much better players than the two kids from India who currently have professional contracts. Did I mention that the kids from India have never played baseball? Ever!

I hope you get my point.