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I saw this on a morning news show...I like!
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I saw this on a morning news show...I like!
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I know people disagee, but I think it is a good idea. The facial area is still vulnerable obviously but this is an improvement.
Although the idea of promoting safety and reducing catastrophic injuries is admirable, I don't see how a pitcher can pitch and keep this thing on his head. A pitcher adjusts his hat after almost every pitch as it is. The extra weight will be bothersome and likely make the hat coem off the head easier. I guess I'd have to see someone use it and then give a review before making final judgement.
It sure was good to see the recent news that Gunnar was once again playing.
It sure was good to see the recent news that Gunnar was once again playing.
quote:Originally posted by ClevelandDad:
I know people disagee, but I think it is a good idea. The facial area is still vulnerable obviously but this is an improvement.
No disagreement here, even with the BBCOR, I have seen several balls whiz by or hit the pitcher who was not in a position to protect himself.
I also think they need face protection as well.
Only 4 games this HS season & I've already seen a pitcher drilled in the ribs with a line drive. Could've been much worse, the kid is tough as nails and stayed in the game. As the dad of a promising Soph/varsity pitcher that is the one thing I worry most about.
During one game Sunday our pitcher took a wicked shot off his back and then the opposing pitcher was actually hit so hard in the glove that it knocked it completely off his hand! Can't imagine either results had it been prior to BBCOR.
I'm going to be the one to disagree here. I don't like the helmet for the pitchers. I hate the fact that pitchers get hurt and they take a chance on every pitch but you can't get rid of all the risk that comes with the game.
No offense guys but this helmet would not have helped either of the guys you just talked about. When will it stop? Will we have pitchers out there with full body armor?
What happens when a fielder gets a mean bad hop and gets hurt? Will we start to look to protect them?
Kid gets hit with a fastball on the hand and breaks a bone - will they now have special batting gloves to wear?
I'm all for protecting players and improving the safety of the game. I just don't see this as being the answer.
No offense guys but this helmet would not have helped either of the guys you just talked about. When will it stop? Will we have pitchers out there with full body armor?
What happens when a fielder gets a mean bad hop and gets hurt? Will we start to look to protect them?
Kid gets hit with a fastball on the hand and breaks a bone - will they now have special batting gloves to wear?
I'm all for protecting players and improving the safety of the game. I just don't see this as being the answer.
When my son was a freshman he was in a hard plastic brace due to a back injury but was cleared to play in the field. Interestingly, the brace helped him get in the habit of bodying up and by the time the brace came off the habit was ingrained.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
I'm going to be the one to disagree here. I don't like the helmet for the pitchers. I hate the fact that pitchers get hurt and they take a chance on every pitch but you can't get rid of all the risk that comes with the game.
No offense guys but this helmet would not have helped either of the guys you just talked about. When will it stop? Will we have pitchers out there with full body armor?
What happens when a fielder gets a mean bad hop and gets hurt? Will we start to look to protect them?
Kid gets hit with a fastball on the hand and breaks a bone - will they now have special batting gloves to wear?
I'm all for protecting players and improving the safety of the game. I just don't see this as being the answer.
Coach - I am sensitive to the slippery slope arguments but I don't believe they carry much water here. All you have to do is look at the hitters. Why are they wearing helmets or do you think we should get rid of those as well?
Baseball remained unchanged for about the first 100 years and the only safety feature they added was helmets for hitters and no one seems to be complaining about that nor has it led to full body armor. It's obivous that a tragic accident will occur one day and it can/might be avoided.
There will always be "some" risk. After Mike Coolbaugh was killed, baseball instituted helmets for coaches. Ironically, he was killed when the ball hit him in the neck and a helmet would not have avoided that injury.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
I'm going to be the one to disagree here. I don't like the helmet for the pitchers. I hate the fact that pitchers get hurt and they take a chance on every pitch but you can't get rid of all the risk that comes with the game.
No offense guys but this helmet would not have helped either of the guys you just talked about. When will it stop? Will we have pitchers out there with full body armor?
What happens when a fielder gets a mean bad hop and gets hurt? Will we start to look to protect them?
Kid gets hit with a fastball on the hand and breaks a bone - will they now have special batting gloves to wear?
I'm all for protecting players and improving the safety of the game. I just don't see this as being the answer.
I side with you on this coach. My son is a pitcher and I cannot see him wearing one of these. Can't protect players from everything that may happen. If you take the number of pitches that are thrown during the course of a year from LL to MLB vs. the number of times someone is hit in the head, the odds of it happening are really quite miniscule.
quote:Coach - I am sensitive to the slippery slope arguments but I don't believe they carry much water here. All you have to do is look at the hitters. Why are they wearing helmets or do you think we should get rid of those as well?
I would say it's the odds. A batter is infinitely more likely to get hit by a pitch than a pitcher is likely to be hit by a comebacker. Just the nature of what a pitcher does and the proximity of the batter to the plate. I would think it was also a matter of what was possible with materials at the time.
That being said, I think that the helmet is kind of cool. I also hope companies continue to innovate in the name of safety. I can see a day when people cringe at the thought of pitchers not wearing helmets but it will continue to take innovation in technologies to make that a reality.
I think that helmet is a great first step.
Many of the devastating injuries in baseball history have been pitched or batted balls that struck the face.
I would ask Easton what data they relied on to design this particular helmet. How many pitchers are injured by batted balls that strike them on the forehead, temple, and other areas covered by this helmet?
Are they trying to manage a known risk or are they just getting to market first with a product, believing that their marketing departments can convince someone somewhere to decree its use?
How many injuries would this helmet have prevented or mitigated if it had been in universal use throughout the high school, college, and pro ranks last year? What would have been the value of that prevention/mitigation compared to the cost of helmets for all the players?
I suspect the cost:benefit ratio would have been astronomical:microscopic.
I am in favor of improving safety when you're really improving safety. I'm not in favor of increasing the costs of playing without improving safety.
I would ask Easton what data they relied on to design this particular helmet. How many pitchers are injured by batted balls that strike them on the forehead, temple, and other areas covered by this helmet?
Are they trying to manage a known risk or are they just getting to market first with a product, believing that their marketing departments can convince someone somewhere to decree its use?
How many injuries would this helmet have prevented or mitigated if it had been in universal use throughout the high school, college, and pro ranks last year? What would have been the value of that prevention/mitigation compared to the cost of helmets for all the players?
I suspect the cost:benefit ratio would have been astronomical:microscopic.
I am in favor of improving safety when you're really improving safety. I'm not in favor of increasing the costs of playing without improving safety.
CD I understand where you're coming from and won't say you're wrong. I'm for making advancements that will help protect the players because it's the right thing to do. We should keep helmets for batters because it is the most vulnerable area on a hitter. Plus the chances of getting hit with a fastball to the head is much more likely than a pitcher getting hit to the head.
Let me try to explain my point this way - I really wasn't going for the typical slippery slope argument of this leads to that that leads to this and so on. I don't see this helmet as really making a huge difference in protecting a pitcher. Will it help - without a doubt but we need to go about this in a better way.
The best example is the Coolbaugh tragedy. Something bad happened and the powers that be react without really thinking things through. This guy gets killed the the freakest of accidents and they react by making everybody wear a helmet that would have done nothing to prevent this tragedy. Where is the logic in that?
Another example which is probably flimsy is in education. We have to do all this stuff that makes no sense and doesn't work because "if it helps just one kid then it's worth it". I'm sick and tired of hearing that statement. If we're working that hard to help just one kid then we need to re-evaluate what we're doing to come up with something that will help more than just one. To tie it in with this situation are we really helping pitchers out with this helmet versus something else we could do that would be more beneficial? Is this worth it "if it just helps one pitcher"?
The thing I forsee and I guess this is the slippery slope people think of the Sandberg kid got hurt so we now have a helmet. What if this year a kid gets hit in the chest with a linedrive and dies from that - do we now come up with a sleek looking chest protector? Next year a kid has a kneecap shatter due to a linedrive and we respond with some kind of shin guard.
This is how we handle situations - everyone gets in an uproar and the powers that be make some sort of kneejerk decision without really thinking it through.
The batting helmet has proven it works and makes hitters safe but it's not 100% foolproof. I really see the day very soon where a kid gets hit in the face and facemasks come along because "it will help save one kid".
Like I said I'm not against helping out players to be more safe but I have no idea what the solution would be. If I knew then I would without a doubt share it with everyone.
Let me try to explain my point this way - I really wasn't going for the typical slippery slope argument of this leads to that that leads to this and so on. I don't see this helmet as really making a huge difference in protecting a pitcher. Will it help - without a doubt but we need to go about this in a better way.
The best example is the Coolbaugh tragedy. Something bad happened and the powers that be react without really thinking things through. This guy gets killed the the freakest of accidents and they react by making everybody wear a helmet that would have done nothing to prevent this tragedy. Where is the logic in that?
Another example which is probably flimsy is in education. We have to do all this stuff that makes no sense and doesn't work because "if it helps just one kid then it's worth it". I'm sick and tired of hearing that statement. If we're working that hard to help just one kid then we need to re-evaluate what we're doing to come up with something that will help more than just one. To tie it in with this situation are we really helping pitchers out with this helmet versus something else we could do that would be more beneficial? Is this worth it "if it just helps one pitcher"?
The thing I forsee and I guess this is the slippery slope people think of the Sandberg kid got hurt so we now have a helmet. What if this year a kid gets hit in the chest with a linedrive and dies from that - do we now come up with a sleek looking chest protector? Next year a kid has a kneecap shatter due to a linedrive and we respond with some kind of shin guard.
This is how we handle situations - everyone gets in an uproar and the powers that be make some sort of kneejerk decision without really thinking it through.
The batting helmet has proven it works and makes hitters safe but it's not 100% foolproof. I really see the day very soon where a kid gets hit in the face and facemasks come along because "it will help save one kid".
Like I said I'm not against helping out players to be more safe but I have no idea what the solution would be. If I knew then I would without a doubt share it with everyone.
Other thoughts as the parent of a pitcher the follow thru mechanics are very important. Like CAdad said they have to be in a position to protect themselves. The helmet minimizes a certain amount of force transfer but concussions can still occur ( The Twins Justin Morneau ). The defensive ready position is the best protection a pitcher can have. They can avoid the ball or use the glove. The head is only one of many vital body parts.
quote:Originally posted by coach2709:
Kid gets hit with a fastball on the hand and breaks a bone - will they now have special batting gloves to wear?
Not a bad idea. You'd better get on it before Nike reads this.
The New Helmet must be Ultra Light Weight otherwise in my opinion...I don't see it catching on.
quote:Not a bad idea. You'd better get on it before Nike reads this.
Franklin already has one.Yadier Molina had one a couple years ago after he broke his hand. It's a big pad that is attached to the dorsal side of the hand.
quote:Originally posted by TDad:
The defensive ready position is the best protection a pitcher can have. They can avoid the ball or use the glove. The head is only one of many vital body parts.
I agree with the above. Injury is a risk to anyone, any position. Things happen but if a pitcher learns proper mechanics for defense it minimizes the chance of injury.
I actually do think that this is a good idea for young pitchers who do not have the reaction time that more experienced pitchers do.
Odd Co-incidence. Just read Twins catcher Danny Lehman needs an MRI after being hit in the head on a follow thru by the Carinal batter Yadier Molina yesterday.
I have pitched a long time and so far managed to avoid ever being struck in above the waist, sinkerballer's luck I suppose. I do not want to be insensitive, but I'm for now opposed to this helmet.
I have had a facial injury from baseball, and that was playing infield. Ball hugs the ground, hops up, rearranges my teeth and breaks my jaw. Some things are just unavoidable I suppose.
I have had a facial injury from baseball, and that was playing infield. Ball hugs the ground, hops up, rearranges my teeth and breaks my jaw. Some things are just unavoidable I suppose.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TDad:
The defensive ready position is the best protection a pitcher can have. They can avoid the ball or use the glove. The head is only one of many vital body parts.
I agree with the above. Injury is a risk to anyone, any position. Things happen but if a pitcher learns proper mechanics for defense it minimizes the chance of injury.
I'm sorry but the idea that one has enough time to react defensively to block the baseball in time, at the College/Pro level is proposterous! I know, TPM, that you are a mother of a professional pitcher. Is your son telling you that if positioned in an "athletic" position that he can react quick enough to catch a squared up line drive to the head by a professional hitter? He can no more do that than a hitter can dodge a perfectly placed 95mph fastball.
I would suggest that the best defensive position to protect yourself IS NOT perfectly squared facing the hitter even if you have placed your glove directly in front of your face. As someone else said, "there are a few other vital areas."
I'm not sure that I'd wear the helmet but after taking one to the noggin and being forced to face recovery time off for facial reconstructive surgery, I'd probably change my mind, just as Tony Conigliaro would about wearing a batting helmet had he had the option some 40 years ago.
There is an obvious risk everytime you set foot on the mound, and you are well aware of this risk. Same rule of thumb applies for all positions in all sports. Am I sympathetic of the unfortunate individuals like the ones previously mentioned, like Gunnar Sandberg in the LA Times article? Absolutely. But they, too, recognized the risk of their actions prior to setting foot on that mound. I don't believe the helmet pictured would do as much to help as it would as a detriment to the pitcher's ability to perform. To be honest, hats are annoying enough and fairly unnecessary in the larger scheme of things, especially related to pitching. But to add additional mass and weight to that hat? And to have it cover such little space? There's a pros and cons factor in this situation in my opinion. As a college pitcher, I wouldn't wear something like that. Maybe if the technology was more enhanced and more protective I'd rethink it. Call it thick-headed (no pun intended), or a lack of empathy on my part (I've never taken one off the head), but I wouldn't wear it.
I think the style of the helmet seems strange and something that would not catch on. I would expect that they would cover the entire head not just the forehead. I have been hit in the head just throwing BP, and been hit numerous times during a game. Besides one concussion, I have been pretty lucky. Even with a helmet you can get hit in the face or anywhere else causing a serious injury. But then again that could happen to a 1st of 3rd basemen. John Olerud use to wear a helmet playing first base and that is a position that you expect the ball and are in a ready position at all times unlike a pitcher, things happen so fast you have no time to react sometimes. There is always going to be a risk, I just took my experiences and learned not to throw anything hitters can hit 
John Olerud suffered a brain aneurysm while doing a morning workout during his college season at Washington State University in 1989. His doctors advised him to wear a helmet when doing anything on the field in order to protect against any type of collision that would involve in contact with the skull.
I'm going to side with the politically incorrect crowd. This helmet is an unnecessary burden, expense and a false sense of security.
People nowadays want to be protected from every little thing that could possibly hurt them. It's impossible.
I'm sure if you could run the numbers, the odds of serious injury or death are minute.
People nowadays want to be protected from every little thing that could possibly hurt them. It's impossible.
I'm sure if you could run the numbers, the odds of serious injury or death are minute.
Prime9,
I am not sure how to answer the question that you have asked.
What do you propose a pitcher does after he lands, turn his head and look the other way? If you did that, how do you protect the rest of your body that is exposed?
It is my opinion that the best defense for a pitcher is not a helmet, but to learn properly how to be prepared defensively, I am not saying that it will always work to your benefit.
ML batting practice spring training, you might be swurprised to see some pretty big Big Leaguers not wearing helmets during batting practice, which tells me they don't wear them in season because they like them but because it is required.
I am not sure how to answer the question that you have asked.
What do you propose a pitcher does after he lands, turn his head and look the other way? If you did that, how do you protect the rest of your body that is exposed?
It is my opinion that the best defense for a pitcher is not a helmet, but to learn properly how to be prepared defensively, I am not saying that it will always work to your benefit.
ML batting practice spring training, you might be swurprised to see some pretty big Big Leaguers not wearing helmets during batting practice, which tells me they don't wear them in season because they like them but because it is required.
I admit, I haven't read the whole thread., but...
Interesting comment to me.
As a parent of a pitcher who has suffered exactly what you described, I say $hit happens . I'm glad this option has been developed and if a player wants to wear one, go for it!
My son wears protective glasses now in MiLB (doctor's orders!
) and did in college too after his accident. I doubt he'd wear this helmet, but I guess I haven't asked him either.
And...as a parent of a HS pitcher who plays in a tough league against a lot of future D1 hitters, I am very happy about the new bat regulations.
That was the bigger fish to fry IMO.
quote:I'm not sure that I'd wear the helmet but after taking one to the noggin and being forced to face recovery time off for facial reconstructive surgery, I'd probably change my mind...
Interesting comment to me.
As a parent of a pitcher who has suffered exactly what you described, I say $hit happens . I'm glad this option has been developed and if a player wants to wear one, go for it!
My son wears protective glasses now in MiLB (doctor's orders!
) and did in college too after his accident. I doubt he'd wear this helmet, but I guess I haven't asked him either.And...as a parent of a HS pitcher who plays in a tough league against a lot of future D1 hitters, I am very happy about the new bat regulations.
That was the bigger fish to fry IMO.
Where does it stop? Whats next? Rubber baseballs? Protective head gear that covers the entire face except the eyes? Total body gear for hitters? I mean we could probably make it really safe to play the game. We could put barriers up between the outfielders so they can not collide. We could do even more. We could require all hitters to wear facemasks, elbow guards, shin guards, etc etc.
If a kid wants to wear this I have no problem with it. But do we make it a rule that every pitcher must wear one? And if not why not? Is a 16 year old kid in a position to make that kind of decision? Does the coach do it? Do the parents decide? Where does it stop? How far do we go in our attempt to take all the possible dangers out of the game? What happens to the game?
Regulations, requirements, etc etc. I never want to see a kid get hurt. I cringe at the thought of it. It breaks my heart to see it and hear about it. Just some thoughts.
If a kid wants to wear this I have no problem with it. But do we make it a rule that every pitcher must wear one? And if not why not? Is a 16 year old kid in a position to make that kind of decision? Does the coach do it? Do the parents decide? Where does it stop? How far do we go in our attempt to take all the possible dangers out of the game? What happens to the game?
Regulations, requirements, etc etc. I never want to see a kid get hurt. I cringe at the thought of it. It breaks my heart to see it and hear about it. Just some thoughts.
Coach May- I get frustrated at the amount of warnings and ejections that have been occuring as a recent trend in the MLB. Now all of a sudden I throw a fastball inside and it hits the guy in the arm...and because he stares at me for a split second...the ump rules that neither I nor the opposing pitcher can throw the ball inside again for fear that we'll be ejected if we hit someone.
This is after this contraption started appearing... http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/...y.1_crop_340x234.jpg
Like I said I'm all for safety. But when safety contraptions, like Bonds's unnecessarily huge arm guard, begins to change the way the game is approached and the way a player plays the game, then I believe we've crossed a line.
This is after this contraption started appearing... http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/...y.1_crop_340x234.jpg
Like I said I'm all for safety. But when safety contraptions, like Bonds's unnecessarily huge arm guard, begins to change the way the game is approached and the way a player plays the game, then I believe we've crossed a line.
I think this one would work much better.
quote:Originally posted by BBLEFTY21:
John Olerud use to wear a helmet playing first base
I remember Richie Allen wearing one in RF to protect himself from bad throws... from the bleachers.
I'd sooner wear a sponge ducktaped to my forehead under an oversized baseball cap than wear a bicycle helmet while playing defense in a baseball game. Sorry.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:quote:Originally posted by BBLEFTY21:
John Olerud use to wear a helmet playing first base
I remember Richie Allen wearing one in RF to protect himself from bad throws... from the bleachers.
Josh Beckett should wear one to protect him from his own coach!
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Activity in the research lab has not slowed...
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- "Where does it stop?"
Activity in the research lab has not slowed...
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quote:Originally posted by BOF:
I think this one would work much better.
Now that is funny.
Personally I am not sure how I feel about this subject.
I was lucky and never hit in the head/face with a comebacker. Then again I was hit in a few other spots. Knock on wood, and thank God, my son has never been hit in the head either, but has also had his share of bruises.
I wonder from a mechanical/practical standpoint how it could affect a pitchers mechanics. As we all know the head is the single heaviest pound for pound part of body. Any excess movement can cause inaccuracy, so if this device adds weight(which it presumably does), it might cause some issues.
If this protective device can be shown to prevent catastrophic injury then I think it merits further investigation. However that is a far cry from mandating it's use.
I'll have to look into this subject more regarding statistics because I do not honestly know how many pitchers it would help.
Then again if your son is the one who gets hit, percentages will mean nothing.
This discussion reminds me of the people that get upset when an atm fee is raised by a 50 cents rather than being outraged that you work almost the first five months to pay taxes on the year. When was the last time you saw a pitcher seriously injured after a hit to the head and then take a look around and see how many pitchers require surgery on their elbows or shoulders in high school and college each year. Where should the focus be?
quote:I'm going to be the one to disagree here. I don't like the helmet for the pitchers. I hate the fact that pitchers get hurt and they take a chance on every pitch but you can't get rid of all the risk that comes with the game.
Coach you are right in that you cannot get rid of all the risk. However, have you never heard of risk management?
I'm not making a case for wearing these things, but if someone decides to err on the side of safety, is there really a problem with that? Someone had to be the first to wear a batting helmet, a hockey mask and so forth. Girl softball pitchers often wear a protective mask.
On this subject; Luis Salazar, a Braves Minor league coach, was struck by a line drive today off the bat of Brian McCann while seated in the dugout. He has been air lifted to the hospital. MLB baseball is late to the party with protective guards in front of the dugouts. I guess it probably isn't worth doing to protect an occasional terrible accident like this.
Who said earlier, we should worry more about Pitcher TJ and shoulder surgeries since they occur more frequently. Hmmm, have any of those proved to be life altering?
I think I'll lock myself in my basement so nothing bad can ever happen to me.
Prime9 I have heard of risk management and sometimes if err on the side of safety as a kneejerk reaction to an isolated case can be more detrimental to actually accomplishing something that will be even better.