No one can say VA high schoolers lack opportunities in D1 baseball

Not the highest number of all states. Baseballclearinghouse.net has listings by state of all colleges with the type of program. Appears, if I counted correctly, that California has 23 D1 programs,Texas has 19 and our neighboring state, North Carolina, has 17(Applachian, Campbell, Davidson, Duke, East Carolina, Elon, Gardner-Webb, High Point, NC AT&T, NC State, UNC-Greensboro, UNC-Ashville, UNC-Chapel Hill, UNC-Charlotte, UNC-Wilmington, Wake Forest, and Western Carolina.)

The NCAA website also has the breakdown by state. They have CA at 24, followed by NY with 20, Texas with 19, NC with 18, and Florida, LA, Ohio with 13 each.

Interesting post.

If we're looking at "opportunity" then it also becomes a function of population. It would be predictable that California would have the most D1 schools - they also have the largest population of the 50 states.

When factoring in the top 5 states and adjusting for population then Virginia's 13 D1 programs for roughly 7.5 million residents (1 for every 575,000 people) would rank it as 2nd only to North Carolina's 17 programs for it's 8.5 million residents (1 for every 500,000).

When compared to California (1 per 1.56 million), Texas (1 per 1.23 million) or Florida (1 per 1.20 million) then the Mid-Atlantic ares seems like a pretty good place to be a High School player.

Only a couple weak D-II programs ? No JUCO to speak of except a couple.

It would be really interesting for someone to do a spreadsheet that would show,

in state players receiving scholarship
vs
out of state players receiving scholarship

for the Virginia schools. I would think that most out of state players would be receiving an athletic scholarship. (if nothing else to compensate for the out of state tuition)
In other words, some schools have over 50% of their players from out of state, while others have very large percentages of in state students.

It would be nice to see a couple of the smaller schools (DII's etc) start to have baseball programs IMO

1943, Not sure the information to make such a spreadsheet is available to the public. For D1 schools, roster limits are, I believe, 35 players but yet only 27 can have scholarship money and those 27 must have a minimum of 25% (with some limited exceptions) but there is no maximum (other than 100%) as long as the total equivalents does not exceed 11.7. Academic money does not count against the 27 equivalents. That means that 8 are not on athletic scholarships but might be on academic scholarships. Don't think access is available to know which players have no money, which have 25%, which have 100% and which have somewhere in between.

Scholarship money will drive you crazy when compared to other college sports,wrestling,basketball,and football.Speaking of football I read where the two worst teams in college football played one another this past weekend at Foreman Field in Norfolk,Va.Yea, UVA lost to itself 0 to 0.(ha-ha)

quote:

Originally posted by Nomadad:
Scholarship money will drive you crazy when compared to other college sports,wrestling,basketball,and football.Speaking of football I read where the two worst teams in college football played one another this past weekend at Foreman Field in Norfolk,Va.Yea, UVA lost to itself 0 to 0.(ha-ha)

Wrestling??? I would definitely not lump wrestling in with football and basketball in terms of available scholarships. A fully funded baseball program has 11.7 full rides (I believe) while wrestling is only allowed 9.9. Not only that, wrestling is, without a doubt, one of the sports hardest hit by the ridiculous interpretation of Title IX. With less than 90 D1 programs left in the entire country, wrestling scholarships are among the hardest to obtain

Is Richmond the only private school on the list? Their roster only has six Virginia guys out of 30, but they also have some issues that are kind of unique. It's definitely a high end school academically (although no more so than UVA or W&M), plus you have to be a D1 baseball player. But the biggest issue is that you have to be able to afford a school where tuition (before any financial help) is going to be in the $50,000 neighborhood. If you look at their roster, you'll notice a large northeast flavor. My guess is that if you looked at all in state schools' roster, they probably have the biggest recruiting footprint out of necessity.

Isn't Liberty University a private school?

Yes, Liberty is private.

quote:

Academic money does not count against the 27 equivalents.

Only if the player receives no athletic money as well. For instance: If a player gets a 25% athletic scholarship and a 50% academic scholarship then they actually count as a .75 against the teams 11.7

On top of that, if the player also qualifies for need based financial aid then that counts too. This is why you'll often have a coach tell you that you can take your financial aid package OR your scholarship but not both.

Classic case of the NCAA using no common sense in it's policies.

JMO, Please provide the NCAA rule cite that supports your statement. I have been advised by coaches from at least three different institutions, as well as by an NCAA compliance officer at a fourth (in Virginia), that academic money which meets the NCAA definition of academic money does not count against the 11.7 EVEN if the baseball player also receives athletic money. I believe the definition of academic money is:

15.5.3.2.2.1 Academic Honor Awards. Academic honor awards that are part of an institution’s
normal arrangements for academic scholarships, based solely on the recipient’s high school record and awarded independently of athletics interests and in amounts consistent with the pattern of all such awards made by the institution, are exempt from an institution’s equivalency computation, provided the recipient was ranked in the upper 10 percent of the high school graduating class or achieved a cumulative grade-point average of at least 3.500 (based on a maximum of 4.000) or a minimum ACT sum score of 105 or a minimum SAT score of 1200 (critical reading and math).

JMO,

This is definately a confusing topic, but I am of the same understanding as you..

There has been some other discussion on this issue.. and its all pretty confusing..

Thanks for clearing that up.

Wish the sun would come out!!!

But since it is not, I have done some more math.
Going back to the original subject of the post.

According to the posted rosters for the Virginia D1 programs, an "out of state" high school kid, has almost an even chance of playing at one of our great Virginia programs as an "in state" high school player. VMI has the largest percentage of Virginia kids, while Richmond has the lowest percentage.
I am absolutely amazed. If I did the math correct, there are only 420 roster spots in the whole state for D1 baseball. Of those spots, only 237 players are from Virginia. There are more high school baseball players in just the beach.

Please let the sun come out!!!!

Wow…I guess the cup is half empty for you…

Considering that many of the top players in the state go D1 out of state or the JUCO route for a variety of reasons, I’d say 237 Virginians playing baseball for our D1 schools is pretty impressive. Sure, if you want to count the entire rosters of the 11 schools in VB, there are “more high school baseball players in just the beach”, but don’t you think that is skewing the numbers just a bit? Most schools have a handful of players (at best) with D1 talent and that number is reduced further by those that do not qualify academically, choose to play out of state, other sports, or not at all.

Are you suggesting that our D1 school rosters should be a higher percentage of Virginians? While VMI has done a remarkable job this year with a high percentage of local talent, I think if you try and handcuff our programs with such a restriction, rather than have a school ranked #1 in the country, you’ll likely have most schools struggling to reach .500 (similar to that school at the other end of the VA spectrum).

I don’t know, maybe I’m used to looking at the plight of wrestlers…where there are only 6 D1 schools in the state and a grand total of 84 in the entire country. From my perspective, the D1 opportunities in baseball are pretty good…guess that’s one of the reasons I was happy my son chose baseball over wrestling

Sorry.but I do not understand your line of thinking.The #1 team in the country(now Arizona State)is and or was holding that position because of out of state players or are you arguing your own point with yourself by using VMI and the good recruiting they have done recently (in state) to prove yourself wrong?Certainly the "other end of the spectrum"team has had a quality program for some time and has a substantiated past of placing Coaches and players in the Majors,as with many programs the wins and losses can be a roller-coaster ride. or are you trying to pass yourself off as a wise old-timer with a good grasp of how things are done or should be done to become #1 Whatever the case good-luck to all the Virginia schools and programs.Especially,those with more than 50% in state players

Mr. Taylor,

Nothing to do with my beer, just an accurate evaluation that suprised me.

Using the beach players was in fact only to put the number in perspective.

In fact, there are many beach players that go to D1 schools and either ride the pine, or see very little PT.

Too bad your kid wasn't named Olanowski, then he could have gone wherever he wanted to wrestle.

By the way, while VMI has the most in state, Richmond has the fewest. I don't understand your last post, Richmond(the other end of the spectrum) is over .500 according to your first post.

Nomad- What's to understand? If you're having trouble, I'll break it down for you:

1. 237 players on VA D1 rosters is good and gives our HS players with D1 talent a good opportunity to play within the state should they choose to do so.

2. Handcuffing our D1 programs by trying to require them to have more in-state players on their rosters would not be good and would lead to less competitive teams....surely you don't have to be "wise old-timer" to understand that. VMI has done a great job thus far with largely local talent, but I'd bet Coach Ikenberry would agree with me.

BTW, UVA is still #1 in both the Baseball America and Rivals Polls

Rivals

BA

quote:

Originally posted by 1943 yankees:
Mr. Taylor,

Nothing to do with my beer, just an accurate evaluation that suprised me.

Using the beach players was in fact only to put the number in perspective.

In fact, there are many beach players that go to D1 schools and either ride the pine, or see very little PT.

Too bad your kid wasn't named Olanowski, then he could have gone wherever he wanted to wrestle.

Who said anything about beer?

Now you say there are many beach players that "either ride the pine, or see very little PT"...Now you seem to be making my point. Do you want our D1 schools to bypass top out-of-state talent in favor of more beach (or other in-state) players or not?

BTW, as good as John and Eric were, neither had their pick of schools (although Missouri and MSU are both fine schools)...and my son did just fine sticking with baseball

I only stated a fact. I made no mention of "bypassing" or offering to a kid just because he is "in state". Some people always seem to take what is said and attempt to distort(to twist) the information.

It was a simple analogy.

FYI, the beer statement was intended to offer humor to those people sending me PMs.

"...I am absolutely amazed. If I did the math correct, there are only 420 roster spots in the whole state for D1 baseball. Of those spots, only 237 players are from Virginia. There are more high school baseball players in just the beach."

Terribly sorry to have misinterpreted the intent of your post. I appologize

Thank you!

We just need a NASA satellite to do a fly over.


The son is out but went 2 for 3 and I know if the wind wasn't blowing in he would gone out.


Have a good season!



drill

Looks like there might need to be an adjustment to the top of this list! Great job VMI!!!!

Yeah...I guess we can move ODU up to #12 now as well

Why would you say that?

Maybe you're right. They are now 1-1 with NSU and their 16-21 record probably doesn't warrant moving them out of the celler just yet

Thanks for acknowledging I am right, again. Your shots against ODU are duly noted and quite honestly expected, by more than just me.

This post is about VMI going up in the rankings not about you. For the love of god they are 29-5.

My glass is still Half full.

Lynn Metheny

Jeesh. Somebody through a bucket on you two. Ok, ODU is down. UVA and VMI are up. What goes around. There was a time, albeit some time ago when ODU used to take those "world series" from UVA. The origianl point of the thread was that VA's high schoolers get all the chances they want at the D1 level, right?

Thanks for throwing the bucket on me!

You are absolutely correct in your assumption.

ODU 30-21-2 against UVA

My glass is still half-full.

I see Taylor is still upset VMI pounded on UVA,or is it the Cox ranking? We have one of those,just can't be happy for the other kid's.We are very aware and happy for UVA's recent accomplishment's,but they choked on VMI and with your approach we will all be celebrating UVA's big victory in Omaha,or not! Go Deacon's-He's more fun.

Nomadad- Don't try and paint me with that brush. I am very happy for the success VMI is having this season...especially given the number of local kids contributing. I even congratulated them on the thread you started on their big win. 1943 chose to dig up this almost two week old thread instead of posting there...why do you think that is?

I do appologize for letting her get to me and bringing ODU into this though. They certainly don't deserve that.

In addition to the original post thought of Virginia kids playing for public or private schools in Virginia, I'd like to know how many Virginia kids are on rosters for the 301 D1 baseball schools (non-Virginia) across the country. My guess is they are well represented, but I can't figure out a quick and easy way to figure it out. There has to be a way to get that number.

Having a balance of kids who stay home to play D1 and go out of state to play D1 (or any level for that matter) shows a very strong baseball state in my mind. Virginia baseball players are going to go out of state for many, many differnt reasons.

Is it even possible for a grown man to think that VMI winning over UVA is about his created thread on a high school baseball forum? I guess so!!!! Guess I could have started a new thread,

Mr. Taylor's UVA team suffers a terrible loss moving them below VMI on his created rankings of the Virginia D1 teams.
There, I went down to your level!

Nomad, I posted on this thread because VMI should now be at the top of the list, quite simple.