Update...the last few posts were responses to a very long parent bitch and moan rant posted yesterday, since deleted.
THANKS! Glad that post is gone!
I can understand it being tough for parents who, once their kids get into HS find playing time or even getting a roster spot difficult. I can sympathize. As they get older, it gets harder, so they have to take that as a catalyst to work harder. My son did. Especially in a highly competitive HS program. There literally is no off season.
We started summer ball last weekend and played in a pretty competitive tournament, got knocked out in the semis by a team of really old (I guess we call them grey shirts?) 2019s, many of whom were already committed to major D1 programs or play/have played for Team USA - we hung right there but you could clearly see a size/strength/skill advantage. My son's team is newly formed, there are a few players from his school, a few from a neighboring school with a good program, and the rest are a collection from other schools. Having never seen the boys in action, the coach took the first couple of games as an opportunity to get the boys into the game and up to bat to really assess their skills. Once bracket play started, it was the usual suspects out there playing. If you see players who are the starters on HS and then in travel ball, under different coaches, it's a pretty good indicator that multiple coaches think that player is the best player available, at that time. We all know that, but it bears repeating. I know that is hard for some boys and parents to accept at times, especially when they see a new team as an opportunity as a fresh start, a new chance to impress the coaches. I have tremendous sympathy for that. But ultimately the cream always rises to the top (in 99% of the cases...may not be statistically accurate). That doesn't mean there isn't a chance. Injuries happen, situations arise. Be ready, make an impact when you have your opportunity and let that coach know that you can be counted upon when the time comes. That builds value.
Cherokeeplayer posted:RJM posted:When I look back at my son's high school conference I believe all the team's coaches knew their stuff. This is from a watching them coach games perspective. There was one I didn't think too much of as a person based on his game day behavior. One of my travel player's dads told me I was right about him as a person.
So what is worse? A high school coach who isn't a quality baseball guy or isn't a quality human being? Personally I wouldn't want my kids around poor role models in high school.
It's not as clear cut as quality human being or quality baseball guy. Even the best human being, when in over their head because they are clueless, can turn into a clearly frustrated human being.
Head Coach former D1 guy, has a plan, knows his people.
JV coach, hired this year because they needed someone from the district and he said he played baseball back in high school, the guy was about 50. While he did stay the complete season he made it clear about 3 weeks before it ended (season was 6 weeks long) that he wouldn't be back next year. 4-21 was the JV record this year. Varsity made it to the state championship game.
There isn't always a connection between the varsity and JV record. Some varsity programs deplete the JV talent. While the coach may not have been good at his job it's not a good example.
SanDiegoRealist posted:I can understand it being tough for parents who, once their kids get into HS find playing time or even getting a roster spot difficult. I can sympathize. As they get older, it gets harder, so they have to take that as a catalyst to work harder. My son did. Especially in a highly competitive HS program. There literally is no off season.
We started summer ball last weekend and played in a pretty competitive tournament, got knocked out in the semis by a team of really old (I guess we call them grey shirts?) 2019s, many of whom were already committed to major D1 programs or play/have played for Team USA - we hung right there but you could clearly see a size/strength/skill advantage. My son's team is newly formed, there are a few players from his school, a few from a neighboring school with a good program, and the rest are a collection from other schools. Having never seen the boys in action, the coach took the first couple of games as an opportunity to get the boys into the game and up to bat to really assess their skills. Once bracket play started, it was the usual suspects out there playing. If you see players who are the starters on HS and then in travel ball, under different coaches, it's a pretty good indicator that multiple coaches think that player is the best player available, at that time. We all know that, but it bears repeating. I know that is hard for some boys and parents to accept at times, especially when they see a new team as an opportunity as a fresh start, a new chance to impress the coaches. I have tremendous sympathy for that. But ultimately the cream always rises to the top (in 99% of the cases...may not be statistically accurate). That doesn't mean there isn't a chance. Injuries happen, situations arise. Be ready, make an impact when you have your opportunity and let that coach know that you can be counted upon when the time comes. That builds value.
Problem is many of the sayings we read here are just not true when applied to HS ball. HS coaches don't always have to win to keep their job. They don't always play the best 9. And sometimes the don't play the kids that can hit. Thus, sometimes the cream doesn't rise to the top. Parents and players new to HS need to go in with there eyes wide open and be aware of what is happening around them. Sometimes coaches are stubborn, biased, and just plain bad coaches. Control what you can is good advice but doesn't help with the frustration of being in one of these bad situations.
Golfman25 posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:I can understand it being tough for parents who, once their kids get into HS find playing time or even getting a roster spot difficult. I can sympathize. As they get older, it gets harder, so they have to take that as a catalyst to work harder. My son did. Especially in a highly competitive HS program. There literally is no off season.
We started summer ball last weekend and played in a pretty competitive tournament, got knocked out in the semis by a team of really old (I guess we call them grey shirts?) 2019s, many of whom were already committed to major D1 programs or play/have played for Team USA - we hung right there but you could clearly see a size/strength/skill advantage. My son's team is newly formed, there are a few players from his school, a few from a neighboring school with a good program, and the rest are a collection from other schools. Having never seen the boys in action, the coach took the first couple of games as an opportunity to get the boys into the game and up to bat to really assess their skills. Once bracket play started, it was the usual suspects out there playing. If you see players who are the starters on HS and then in travel ball, under different coaches, it's a pretty good indicator that multiple coaches think that player is the best player available, at that time. We all know that, but it bears repeating. I know that is hard for some boys and parents to accept at times, especially when they see a new team as an opportunity as a fresh start, a new chance to impress the coaches. I have tremendous sympathy for that. But ultimately the cream always rises to the top (in 99% of the cases...may not be statistically accurate). That doesn't mean there isn't a chance. Injuries happen, situations arise. Be ready, make an impact when you have your opportunity and let that coach know that you can be counted upon when the time comes. That builds value.
Problem is many of the sayings we read here are just not true when applied to HS ball. HS coaches don't always have to win to keep their job. They don't always play the best 9. And sometimes the don't play the kids that can hit. Thus, sometimes the cream doesn't rise to the top. Parents and players new to HS need to go in with there eyes wide open and be aware of what is happening around them. Sometimes coaches are stubborn, biased, and just plain bad coaches. Control what you can is good advice but doesn't help with the frustration of being in one of these bad situations.
Sometimes I think the conflict comes in the debate over who's the cream. I may think my son is, and that he should rise to the top. I may be wrong. I absolutely think my son is one of the best nine, and I could be wrong. And I could think our coach is just horrible and doesn't know what he's doing, but I could be wrong.
Iowamom23 posted:Golfman25 posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:I can understand it being tough for parents who, once their kids get into HS find playing time or even getting a roster spot difficult. I can sympathize. As they get older, it gets harder, so they have to take that as a catalyst to work harder. My son did. Especially in a highly competitive HS program. There literally is no off season.
We started summer ball last weekend and played in a pretty competitive tournament, got knocked out in the semis by a team of really old (I guess we call them grey shirts?) 2019s, many of whom were already committed to major D1 programs or play/have played for Team USA - we hung right there but you could clearly see a size/strength/skill advantage. My son's team is newly formed, there are a few players from his school, a few from a neighboring school with a good program, and the rest are a collection from other schools. Having never seen the boys in action, the coach took the first couple of games as an opportunity to get the boys into the game and up to bat to really assess their skills. Once bracket play started, it was the usual suspects out there playing. If you see players who are the starters on HS and then in travel ball, under different coaches, it's a pretty good indicator that multiple coaches think that player is the best player available, at that time. We all know that, but it bears repeating. I know that is hard for some boys and parents to accept at times, especially when they see a new team as an opportunity as a fresh start, a new chance to impress the coaches. I have tremendous sympathy for that. But ultimately the cream always rises to the top (in 99% of the cases...may not be statistically accurate). That doesn't mean there isn't a chance. Injuries happen, situations arise. Be ready, make an impact when you have your opportunity and let that coach know that you can be counted upon when the time comes. That builds value.
Problem is many of the sayings we read here are just not true when applied to HS ball. HS coaches don't always have to win to keep their job. They don't always play the best 9. And sometimes the don't play the kids that can hit. Thus, sometimes the cream doesn't rise to the top. Parents and players new to HS need to go in with there eyes wide open and be aware of what is happening around them. Sometimes coaches are stubborn, biased, and just plain bad coaches. Control what you can is good advice but doesn't help with the frustration of being in one of these bad situations.
Sometimes I think the conflict comes in the debate over who's the cream. I may think my son is, and that he should rise to the top. I may be wrong. I absolutely think my son is one of the best nine, and I could be wrong. And I could think our coach is just horrible and doesn't know what he's doing, but I could be wrong.
Not really. It's pretty easy actually. Performance. Who's performing. If a kid isn't performing, next man up.
Agree with Golfman, however I have also seen (in youth baseball) kids stay in the lineup batting leadoff when they had no business being there. It does happen, however once that player is removed from that protective environment reality often sets in...
SanDiegoRealist posted:Agree with Golfman, however I have also seen (in youth baseball) kids stay in the lineup batting leadoff when they had no business being there. It does happen, however once that player is removed from that protective environment reality often sets in...
We like to call that player "coaches kid" in youth baseball ;-)
Kevin A posted:Everyone has their own decisions to make. I can tell you right now if the HS told my kid to ...lets say....move to Rt field and not be a catcher? My son would politely decline and if it means leaving the team he would. It is different if he was a catcher/pitcher and the coach saw him as one or the other, which seems to be the case here. Coach saw him as a pitcher and the player saw himself as a catcher. Maybe the other catchers were comparable and he needed a pitcher. Compliments to the player for making the hard choice.
It's not really comparing apples to apples, asking a catcher to switch to pitching vs asking that catcher to play other positions. Maybe a kid has a great arm, but if the kid is a catcher and he's asked to pitch when he sees a future in catching...nope, sorry, it's probably not in the best interest of his arm health. Catching already takes a toll on an arm. A catcher throws way more than a pitcher because they can catch every game, despite the velo difference (except for all the throwdowns). Pitching, welp, you don't know if your arm has 27,000 pitches in it, or 2700. But when you pitch, you're inching closer to the possible end of using your arm. Not exactly ideal when you see a future in catching. And the kicker is there is no way to know for sure. Funny things happen to arms every day.
But if my 2018 catcher son was asked to play RF, he'd throw off his mask and run out there faster than the other outfielders and enjoy showing off his athleticism in a different manner. The plus in that too, is that he gives his knees a break. Play 3rd, 2nd, 1st? Done coach. Service with a smile! There is no reason to have your kid leave a team because you think he owns that spot. Truthfully, a player should be able to play several different spots and be ready to do so cheerfully. Get signed to college at catcher, and then guess what happens will be they get a better catcher. If your son wanted to play, RF might be the only place for him, take it or leave it? Take it! Take it with a smile and sense of gratitude. At least that's what I tell my son. But he's athletic enough to play anywhere.
CaCO3Girl posted:SanDiegoRealist posted:Agree with Golfman, however I have also seen (in youth baseball) kids stay in the lineup batting leadoff when they had no business being there. It does happen, however once that player is removed from that protective environment reality often sets in...
We like to call that player "coaches kid" in youth baseball ;-)
Just like Domingo Ayala says! HAHA!
My son has been a PO the past two years in college. He was asked to take some BP toward the end of this past season. After seeing him hit, he was asked how he felt about playing OF in addition to pitching. He hasn't played OF since he was 12 but he said absolutely that he'll give it a shot in the fall. Any opportunity to play every day is a good opportunity
These post game comments about being a "team" by Coach Deggs of SHSU seem very, very appropriate in this thread:
https://twitter.com/BearkatVid/status/874114867946549248/video/1
infielddad posted:These post game comments about being a "team" by Coach Deggs of SHSU seem very, very appropriate in this thread:
https://twitter.com/BearkatVid/status/874114867946549248/video/1
AMEN !!!!!!
BaseballParent23 posted:Kevin A posted:Everyone has their own decisions to make. I can tell you right now if the HS told my kid to ...lets say....move to Rt field and not be a catcher? My son would politely decline and if it means leaving the team he would. It is different if he was a catcher/pitcher and the coach saw him as one or the other, which seems to be the case here. Coach saw him as a pitcher and the player saw himself as a catcher. Maybe the other catchers were comparable and he needed a pitcher. Compliments to the player for making the hard choice.
It's not really comparing apples to apples, asking a catcher to switch to pitching vs asking that catcher to play other positions. Maybe a kid has a great arm, but if the kid is a catcher and he's asked to pitch when he sees a future in catching...nope, sorry, it's probably not in the best interest of his arm health. Catching already takes a toll on an arm. A catcher throws way more than a pitcher because they can catch every game, despite the velo difference (except for all the throwdowns). Pitching, welp, you don't know if your arm has 27,000 pitches in it, or 2700. But when you pitch, you're inching closer to the possible end of using your arm. Not exactly ideal when you see a future in catching. And the kicker is there is no way to know for sure. Funny things happen to arms every day.
But if my 2018 catcher son was asked to play RF, he'd throw off his mask and run out there faster than the other outfielders and enjoy showing off his athleticism in a different manner. The plus in that too, is that he gives his knees a break. Play 3rd, 2nd, 1st? Done coach. Service with a smile! There is no reason to have your kid leave a team because you think he owns that spot. Truthfully, a player should be able to play several different spots and be ready to do so cheerfully. Get signed to college at catcher, and then guess what happens will be they get a better catcher. If your son wanted to play, RF might be the only place for him, take it or leave it? Take it! Take it with a smile and sense of gratitude. At least that's what I tell my son. But he's athletic enough to play anywhere.
HS is a short season and you play with what you get. A lot of times you might put your second best player at a spot in over your best player at that spot because he is also your best at another spot. So you might ask a SS to play CF, and put the no. 2 SS in -- because that gives the best chance for the team to win. 20 or so games later, you're doing something different anyway.
infielddad posted:These post game comments about being a "team" by Coach Deggs of SHSU seem very, very appropriate in this thread:
https://twitter.com/BearkatVid/status/874114867946549248/video/1
Sounds like he lives what he preaches. I'm good with that. But, there are a lot of guys out there that don't.
What my wife & I tell our kid is "be so good that there can be no doubt in the coach's mind that you should start".
It goes along the lines of "hustle all out down the line, don't leave it in the Umpire's hands on a bang bang play at 1st"
Same with "swing at that close pitch with 2 strikes. Don't leave it up to the Umpire."
I realize that some players work and prepare to the absolute best of their ability and get every ounce of ability out of their God-given potential and are still left on the Bubble as far as playing time. I truly believe that a vast majority of players simply don't work to their full potential. For them: want more playing time? Work harder.
Golfman25 posted:infielddad posted:These post game comments about being a "team" by Coach Deggs of SHSU seem very, very appropriate in this thread:
https://twitter.com/BearkatVid/status/874114867946549248/video/1
Sounds like he lives what he preaches. I'm good with that. But, there are a lot of guys out there that don't.
You may be right in your thoughts.
That was not the reason I posted it though.
I have never understood any player or their parent having a "me first" attitude.
"I'm not going to pitch because I'm going to be a college catcher."
Who says? Would you like a seat on the bench or a place on the mound?
When I coachedthrough 16u I told players there are nine positions "out there" that are all better than a seat "in there." Every kid interested in college baseball ball (most of them) got invited to play on quality 17/18u teams. No one was harmed in the making of college baseball players.
Golfman25 posted:infielddad posted:These post game comments about being a "team" by Coach Deggs of SHSU seem very, very appropriate in this thread:
https://twitter.com/BearkatVid/status/874114867946549248/video/1
Sounds like he lives what he preaches. I'm good with that. But, there are a lot of guys out there that don't.
Of course. But the speech was about the PLAYERS, the importance of having a bunch of TEAM FIRST team players. And Infieldad's reference was to suggest that PLAYERS learn what it means to be a TEAM PLAYER in a team sport. And, of course, much of what the player learns comes from the examples set, first by the parent, and as well by the coach.
If my son was a player who has a coach or teammates that don't show by their actions that they are "team first", I would still want my son to do the right thing and show that HE is still a team player, no matter what. Wouldn't you?
I sure as heck would not offer up excuses to my son that it's OK not to be a team player because others are not, would you?
Bad coach? Do the right thing by your teammates and team anyway.
Bad teammates? Do the right thing by your teammates and team anyway.
Bad work mates? Bad family members? Bad day? Same. Same. Same.
Put others first. Always do the right thing.
PS - Oops, sorry IFD, typing at the same time. Hope I didn't take too many liberties with my assumptions.
here's an example of a kid who was a HS catcher, then tried pitching: Thomas Eschelman (spelling?). Check his college stats. pretty amazing. Good coaching guess.
Goosegg posted:here's an example of a kid who was a HS catcher, then tried pitching: Thomas Eschelman (spelling?). Check his college stats. pretty amazing. Good coaching guess.
Goosegg, Eshelman was amazing at Fullerton, especially as a freshman and sophomore when he probably was in the top 5 pitchers in all of college baseball, while standing 82-85 during games. Our son was a hitting coach in the Big West during that time. I remember talking to him about his game planning when they faced Eshelman. At the time I believe the ERA was under 1.00 but even more amazing was K's to BB. If I remember right Eshelman was near 100 innings and had around 105K's and 3 walks. Needless to say, Fullerton played/plays the ultimate team type game, with advancing runners being a priority whether you bat 1, 4 or 9 in the order.
He's added velo since - but sacrificed that 40:1 ratio!
We speak of "tools" in evaluating players; to me that means that the more tools the better - eshelman is the perfect illustration - so when you get a chance to develop additional skills (like playing a new position), think long and hard if the answer is anything other than yes. The ebbs and flow of the baseball river are many; eventually everyone runs out of time. The more skills, the more tools, and you can possibly squeeze more time on the river. Always add to your skill set when asked (health allowing).
And, there is a single key for all college hitters: if you hit, you play; doesn't matter if you can't catch a fly ball. For fielders, that is true - maybe, possibly - at SS and catcher. At catcher you need, if hitting isn't plus, a guy who can allow his pitchers to throw any pitch, anytime will get love.
Anyway, my rambling point is when asked to go outside the present skill set - health excepted - do so because you never know where the baseball river takes you.
Golfman25 posted:infielddad posted:These post game comments about being a "team" by Coach Deggs of SHSU seem very, very appropriate in this thread:
https://twitter.com/BearkatVid/status/874114867946549248/video/1
Sounds like he lives what he preaches. I'm good with that. But, there are a lot of guys out there that don't.
Great story, after going 400 plus days out of a job, he got a second chance, and he gives his players second chances too. He understands now how you give back to the game and he teaches his players to do as well.
That means that you do whatever is asked of you for the TEAM.
Golfman25 posted:infielddad posted:These post game comments about being a "team" by Coach Deggs of SHSU seem very, very appropriate in this thread:
https://twitter.com/BearkatVid/status/874114867946549248/video/1
Sounds like he lives what he preaches. I'm good with that. But, there are a lot of guys out there that don't.
Great story, after going 400 plus days out of a job, he got a second chance, and he gives his players second chances too. He understands now how you give back to the game and he teaches his players to do as well.
That means that you do whatever is asked of you for the TEAM.
Follow up story on Tom Eshelman and his PC.