No sports for Bowdoin until 2021

@BackstopMom posted:

It seems most likely that barring a vaccine,  there really won’t be any sports in the Ivy League or at HA schools this year. If that proves to be true, how will that affect baseball at any of these schools since it will essentially mean that they won’t play for two consecutive seasons (considering the fact that last season was dramatically cut short)? On a separate note, how will this affect sports, particularly in the Ivy League, overall?  In recent years, there has been discussion of taking legacies and athletes out of the equation in Ivy League admissions.  Doubtful they’ll ever get rid of the former but will this disruption ultimately lead to the latter?

I was going to write back that some high academics will continue to have sports but just found some new info that spooks me a bit.  My son is at a school in the NEWMAC conference (d3) which is basically all in Massachusetts with one in CT.  Not all are high academic schools in conference but they announced they will play sports in all seasons but no travel and only in conference for now.   The one school I was most worried about was MIT.  I just noticed that they did just cancel all fall sports yesterday.  They have not made decisions on winter yet.  My sons school did announce fall practice plans for baseball and has announced they plan to play all seasons.  They gave themselves the out of course - following the data.  The virus here in the NorthEast is under control for now. 

Side thought- I assumed the virus would weaken in the summer and come back in the fall winter.  It didn't weaken in summer - its in the south in the middle of the summer.  So why do we expect a second (or third) wave to occur in the fall / winter when it can occur now?  Perhaps the virus can live longer in colder temps and the risk is just higher.  Just an observation.   

Gunner, I think the main concern about fall/winter is that people spend a lot more time inside then.  So instead of gathering in places like beaches, parks and outdoor patios, they are more likely to be in enclosed spaces.  

I'm not making a prediction or a recommendation, but it would not surprise me to see some schools switch to all-remote classes in the next few weeks (or all-remote except labs and other activities that just cannot be done via Zoom).  Maybe they take Cornell's route and invite students to live on campus anyway?  But the tea leaves don't look positive to me--infection and hospitalization trends in many states, increasing faculty objections, students and parents having second thoughts about the appeal of socially distanced college now that they see the rules that will apply.  

At this point, it looks as though I am going to be paying tuition, room & board to send two kids to private universities so they can take most of their classes online from their dorm rooms and eat dining hall take out.  Seems like the main reason students would be interested in that arrangement is because they assume they can party despite rules trying to prohibit that.  

@Chico Escuela posted:

Gunner, I think the main concern about fall/winter is that people spend a lot more time inside then.  So instead of gathering in places like beaches, parks and outdoor patios, they are more likely to be in enclosed spaces.  

I'm not making a prediction or a recommendation, but it would not surprise me to see some schools switch to all-remote classes in the next few weeks (or all-remote except labs and other activities that just cannot be done via Zoom).  Maybe they take Cornell's route and invite students to live on campus anyway?  But the tea leaves don't look positive to me--infection and hospitalization trends in many states, increasing faculty objections, students and parents having second thoughts about the appeal of socially distanced college now that they see the rules that will apply.  

At this point, it looks as though I am going to be paying tuition, room & board to send two kids to private universities so they can take most of their classes online from their dorm rooms and eat dining hall take out.  Seems like the main reason students would be interested in that arrangement is because they assume they can party despite rules trying to prohibit that.  

I just sent checks for both my kids so they are going even if the schools won't let them on campus..... I will just have them live with RJM or Glofisher.  For me, the next few weeks are key to understand how this massive spike in cases filters through hospitalizations, to ICU to deaths by age group.   The spike started around June 10th so we are a month past and data should start telling us more information now. 

This is going back to what colleges can afford to take the financial hits and which ones can't.  The hits are coming if they restrict access to campus or only allow kids to do all remote learning.  I doubt the administrators have forgotten this but I can tell you the parents will be asking for Williams type discounts if it's remote learning.  

@Chico Escuela posted:

 

At this point, it looks as though I am going to be paying tuition, room & board to send two kids to private universities so they can take most of their classes online from their dorm rooms and eat dining hall take out.  Seems like the main reason students would be interested in that arrangement is because they assume they can party despite rules trying to prohibit that.  

To the party comment how great is this from Tulane:

Dear Student,

Over the weekend, in spite of our pleas to the contrary, many of our students living in New Orleans chose to have parties and large gatherings where social distancing wasn't being practiced and face masks weren't being worn. They then saw fit to post this all-over social media. This comes on the heels of national news attention about super spreader events. These events were disruptive to our neighbors and drew a lot of very negative attention to Tulane. The behaviors of the student hosts and those who chose to attend these parties was disrespectful, selfish and dangerous and not in line with Tulane values. This type of behavior is indefensible and truly shameful.

For those of you who are returning students, as you know, we are incredibly lucky that Tulane is in a city that is unlike any in the country, a city where culture and community matter and one that honors difference. After an initial surge of infections, the citizens of New Orleans came together to flatten the curve of this pandemic and reduce infections to a rate that allowed for our city to begin reopening. The actions of the individuals over the weekend were very publicly disrespectful to the Tulane University community and to the people of New Orleans, and have the potential to undermine our significant progress against this deadly disease.

The calculation is simple - If you want to have a residential experience at Tulane in the fall, you have to behave differently. This means, no large gatherings (+15 people), and at all times wearing masks in public spaces, practicing social distancing and washing your hands. We are finishing our complete enforcement plan for the fall, but it is clear that this message had to be delivered immediately. DO NOT HOST PARTIES OR GATHERINGS WITH MORE THAN 15 PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE HOST. IF YOU DO, YOU WILL FACE SUSPENSION OR EXPULSION FROM THE UNIVERSITY. All gatherings, of any size, must observe appropriate social distancing and attendees should wear masks. There is no room for error here. People’s lives depend on your adherence to these rules. They aren't just nameless, faceless people – they are our people.

So please, make decisions with this in mind. We understand that it requires a different way of thinking about and approaching life – but we believe our students are conscientious enough and mature enough to adhere to the public health expectations of Tulane and the City of New Orleans. If we didn't, we would not be reopening. We need everyone's help to have a safe fall. Hold your friends and peers accountable and reach out when you need help with that. You can report problematic behavior by using our online report system <https://t.e2ma.net/click/f8ykqc/rlp77lb/f4nlwi>. These reports are received in real time. You can also call the Tulane University Police at tel:504-865-5381.

Do you really want to be the reason that Tulane and New Orleans have to shut down again?

Given the typical college experience these days, if all schools turn to an enforcement model of expelling violations such as what happened at Tulane, admission to even the most selective schools will become much easier.  We have a Webinar with my son’s school this week and they’ll be going over the rules, but as we’ve read them so far it appears that his freshman experience will look more like that in 1820 than 2020.  Currently, he’s not happy about that, but he’s willing to give it a try.  

No parties at Tulane?  Mind blown... 

A university can, as a legal matter, restrict off campus parties as part of an enrollment “contract.”  But if those parties don’t violate state/local rules, it’s going to be a heck of a lift to actually expel any student living off campus.  Or maybe students will wise up and stop documenting parties on social media? (I know, that really seems impossible.)

The Tulane letter refers to “hosting” parties. Find a friend who is a recent grad or just not affiliated with Tulane and party at his/her place—no violation?  Folks living near campus could make some coin with an AirBnB-type arrangement for parties.  

I would like to be proven wrong, but I don’t expect any of these new policies to have much bite.  My working assumption is that my kids will violate social distancing requirements regularly at school this fall. I am not happy about that, but am resigned to it. For now at least. 

Higher education is delusional....they are going to get a hair cut they never saw coming from several directions. Granted it is about 30 years to late but in a weird painful way it could save them from themselves. One of the greediest, self-serving and pompous industries that has never been through an adjustment...it will be fun to watch. 

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

Side thought- I assumed the virus would weaken in the summer and come back in the fall winter.  It didn't weaken in summer - its in the south in the middle of the summer.  So why do we expect a second (or third) wave to occur in the fall / winter when it can occur now?  Perhaps the virus can live longer in colder temps and the risk is just higher.  Just an observation.   

I was thinking about this, but consider this.

1) The South and West are generally nice in the Spring, while the Northeast is cold

2) The Northeast is nice in the summer, while the South and West are too hot

So, where the weather is nicer, more people our outside, so they don't spread it as much.  BTW, I claim no expertise on this, but just going with my own side thought on a side thought.

@Gunner Mack Jr. posted:

To the party comment how great is this from Tulane:

Dear Student,

Over the weekend, in spite of our pleas to the contrary, many of our students living in New Orleans chose to have parties and large gatherings where social distancing wasn't being practiced and face masks weren't being worn. They then saw fit to post this all-over social media. This comes on the heels of national news attention about super spreader events. These events were disruptive to our neighbors and drew a lot of very negative attention to Tulane. The behaviors of the student hosts and those who chose to attend these parties was disrespectful, selfish and dangerous and not in line with Tulane values. This type of behavior is indefensible and truly shameful.

For those of you who are returning students, as you know, we are incredibly lucky that Tulane is in a city that is unlike any in the country, a city where culture and community matter and one that honors difference. After an initial surge of infections, the citizens of New Orleans came together to flatten the curve of this pandemic and reduce infections to a rate that allowed for our city to begin reopening. The actions of the individuals over the weekend were very publicly disrespectful to the Tulane University community and to the people of New Orleans, and have the potential to undermine our significant progress against this deadly disease.

The calculation is simple - If you want to have a residential experience at Tulane in the fall, you have to behave differently. This means, no large gatherings (+15 people), and at all times wearing masks in public spaces, practicing social distancing and washing your hands. We are finishing our complete enforcement plan for the fall, but it is clear that this message had to be delivered immediately. DO NOT HOST PARTIES OR GATHERINGS WITH MORE THAN 15 PEOPLE, INCLUDING THE HOST. IF YOU DO, YOU WILL FACE SUSPENSION OR EXPULSION FROM THE UNIVERSITY. All gatherings, of any size, must observe appropriate social distancing and attendees should wear masks. There is no room for error here. People’s lives depend on your adherence to these rules. They aren't just nameless, faceless people – they are our people.

So please, make decisions with this in mind. We understand that it requires a different way of thinking about and approaching life – but we believe our students are conscientious enough and mature enough to adhere to the public health expectations of Tulane and the City of New Orleans. If we didn't, we would not be reopening. We need everyone's help to have a safe fall. Hold your friends and peers accountable and reach out when you need help with that. You can report problematic behavior by using our online report system <https://t.e2ma.net/click/f8ykqc/rlp77lb/f4nlwi>. These reports are received in real time. You can also call the Tulane University Police at tel:504-865-5381.

Do you really want to be the reason that Tulane and New Orleans have to shut down again?

When these same people allow protests they lose all credibility.  Who listens to this after watching the news night after night?

@Viking0 posted:

I was thinking about this, but consider this.

1) The South and West are generally nice in the Spring, while the Northeast is cold

2) The Northeast is nice in the summer, while the South and West are too hot

So, where the weather is nicer, more people our outside, so they don't spread it as much.  BTW, I claim no expertise on this, but just going with my own side thought on a side thought.

People get infected by influenza during summer months. Just not as easily because:

1. Herd immunity

2. Vaccination

2. People are out and about with a good portion of them being outside.

C-19:

1. Novel virus

2. No vaccination

I can’t help but sense the irony as I enjoy watching my son and other college baseball players play summer collegiate-league ball this summer around the country all the while knowing he may not play ball next Spring!

Of course, if fall baseball workouts are a go in some form, I guess I will have to send my kid to campus if only for those.  Doesn’t seem like a great bargain. 

At my son’s school, he will be required to sign a document stating that he will comply with all the rules or be sent home.  He will download an app where he will keep track of daily COVID symptom status. He’ll also be required to keep a daily contact list of everyone he comes in contact with each day for contact tracing later if necessary. If he leaves campus for any reason (which is highly discouraged), he will be COVID tested upon return.  He can’t have any outside guests without prior approval.  Those are the basics.  We’ll learn more later. 

I will say that in this environment, as an entering freshman, I am grateful that he’s on the baseball team.  It gives him a ready made group of kids he’s already getting to know.  They are developing a sense of teamwork already feeling that while they’re in a strange situation, they’re in this together. Perhaps that will benefit them later as a team.  I certainly would hate to send a kid off to school in this environment not knowing a soul.  It’s already designed to be very isolating.  It would feel more like going off to a minimum security federal prison than a college. I know it’s the best these schools can do under the circumstances, but I wonder the long term impact on higher education.

BackstopMom  -- this sounds very similar to the plan announced by our son's school. They have a hybrid plan and  they're working on infrastructure.  At this point the big question is will the county and state let them reopen.  A couple of weeks ago that didn't concern me. Now it does.

From what I have seen, every school is doing much the same thing.  Which makes sense—best practices shouldn’t vary much. (But those best practices still seem unlikely to stop kids from being kids, IMO.)

@BackstopMom posted:

He will download an app where he will keep track of daily COVID symptom status. He’ll also be required to keep a daily contact list of everyone he comes in contact with each day for contact tracing later if necessary. If he leaves campus for any reason (which is highly discouraged), he will be COVID tested upon return.  He can’t have any outside guests without prior approval.  Those are the basics.  We’ll learn more later. 

 

Hmm. I need to do some research on some companies to invest in. "Burner phones" are getting ready to be extremely popular to more than just the intelligence, criminal, and terrorism organizations!!!

This pandemic has made me realize the importance of a residential college education that I never thought about before. The importance of face-to-face instruction because of the little interactions that occur before and after class, and outside of class, between students and between students and professors. The vital importance of living in a place where everyone is engaged in the same activity, everyone is taking classes, doing homework, taking exams. The rest of it - sports, extra-curriculars, lectures, etc. - are very important too, but at base is the contact with other students in your classes.

Son's school is not bringing any students to campus this fall, I am furious. He needs to get away from home, to be living and learning with others. Never mind the baseball aspect - where is he going to train? How is going to our local gym to lift going to be safer for him than being on campus? So right now, those of you with sons who are being brought back to quarantined campuses, consider yourselves lucky.

Ivy League has cancelled fall sports.

@anotherparent posted:

Ivy League has cancelled fall sports.

Of course they have. Expect the same fate for spring sports. 

@anotherparent posted:

Ivy League has cancelled fall sports.

Wow, just wow. I read on their site that they will not lose a year of eligibility, tho. I guess they must be concerned about the football backlash that would create!

47 cases linked to frat parties at Cal (see link). The next several weeks are going to make or break a lot of schools’ current plans to bring students back to campus this fall, IMO. 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/ba...navirus-15395626.php

@RoadRunner posted:

Wow, just wow. I read on their site that they will not lose a year of eligibility, tho. I guess they must be concerned about the football backlash that would create!

Won't lose a year of eligibility but did they lift the undergraduate athletes only restriction? If not, they'd have to graduate in 5 or pick up a second major. 

@Chico Escuela posted:

47 cases linked to frat parties at Cal (see link). The next several weeks are going to make or break a lot of schools’ current plans to bring students back to campus this fall, IMO. 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/ba...navirus-15395626.php

It is running through HS and College aged kids now throughout the country (except where it already hit them hard).  IMO, this may be better than waiting for them to come together on College campuses to spread it around.   It will happen one way or another unless we shut everything down again.    

@Chico Escuela posted:

47 cases linked to frat parties at Cal (see link). The next several weeks are going to make or break a lot of schools’ current plans to bring students back to campus this fall, IMO. 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/ba...navirus-15395626.php

Ah yes, linked to Cal parties.  No mention that there were BLM protests in Berkeley 2 weeks ago, but of course trackers aren't allowed to ask that question.

@Smitty28 posted:

Ah yes, linked to Cal parties.  No mention that there were BLM protests in Berkeley 2 weeks ago, but of course trackers aren't allowed to ask that question.

Do you have a link re: your claim about trackers?  I’d like to see it— that’s one I have not heard, but I’m willing to learn. 

@Chico Escuela posted:

Do you have a link re: your claim about trackers?  I’d like to see it— that’s one I have not heard, but I’m willing to learn. 

I did a quick google search and picked one at the top.  This started in NYC...

https://www.thecity.nyc/corona...id-fears-of-new-wave

@Smitty28 posted:

I did a quick google search and picked one at the top.  This started in NYC...

https://www.thecity.nyc/corona...id-fears-of-new-wave

 

Thanks.  I had not read about that (and it's disturbing).  

O.k., folks, let's get real.  I'm assuming that they traced these particular cases to fraternity parties because that's where those kids had all been.  I also assume (but I could be wrong) that kids in fraternities are not the most likely to have been protesting.

I was very disturbed by protesters without masks, and by people saying that it was o.k. for any reason.  It does have to be said, though, that for quite a while people have known that the virus spreads more easily inside than outside.  It makes it easier to justify outdoor protests (and baseball games) than indoor activities.  But, I agree that it doesn't make it right not to wear masks (although baseball players aren't wearing masks either).

I do think that by the time that college classes start, many students will have been exposed to the virus already.  That makes it harder to take that some schools aren't bringing back all (or any) of their students.

@anotherparent posted:

I do think that by the time that college classes start, many students will have been exposed to the virus already.  That makes it harder to take that some schools aren't bringing back all (or any) of their students.

I think "many" is likely to be a large absolute number, but a small fraction.  (I'd guess less than 10%).  There are roughly 19.9 million college students in the US.  

U Washington had an outbreak of 121 cases last week, traced mostly to fraternities.  The U of Southern California just cut back on plans for in-person classes.  I think a lot of schools are watching the news and stats nervously right now.

I still expect both my kids to go to their respective colleges in August.  Gotta admit, I also expect to see at least one of them home before Thanksgiving because their schools have decided to go back to all-remote.

Schools can go to remote, they can take away sports, they can close the dorms, they can make any kind of ridiculous rules they want. But the bottom line is this:  college students are going to gather. The ones living off campus are NOT going home, I promise. They are better off carrying on with organized extracurriculars.  I know mine goes out of his way, in season, to stay well, especially the last 2 years. When institutions (such as Big 10) make random rules, they lose credibility with the students (and parents). 

@Smitty28 posted:

Ah yes, linked to Cal parties.  No mention that there were BLM protests in Berkeley 2 weeks ago, but of course trackers aren't allowed to ask that question.

MS-NBC and CNN pushed a story people who watch Fox are catching COVID at a higher rate. I called my doctor’s office the first time I was in a trace line. The nurse asked a bunch of questions. None of them were what news cable station do you watch.

I was told protesting is a cause worth dying for. But going out for anything else was going to kill grandma. So, is protesting a cause worth killing grandma?

@RJM posted:

I was told protesting is a cause worth dying for. But going out for anything else was going to kill grandma. So, is protesting a cause worth killing grandma?

GLM

Grandma’s Life Matters 

@adbono posted:

GLM

Grandma’s Life Matters 

Unless she is a Trump supporter 

I’m sorry. GLM was taken a long time ago. When my son was in LL years ago GLM was “good looking mom.”

@RJM posted:

I’m sorry. GLM was taken a long time ago. When my son was in LL years ago GLM was “good looking mom.”

I only ever took one GLM pick. It didn't work out. She drove up in a convertible before the first game and proceeded to tell me her son would no longer be playing due to his horrific school grades. That was my first and last GLM pick.

@RJM posted:

MS-NBC and CNN pushed a story people who watch Fox are catching COVID at a higher rate. I called my doctor’s office the first time I was in a trace line. The nurse asked a bunch of questions. None of them were what news cable station do you watch.

RJM, that's because your doctor and nurse watch Fox.

(j/k)

because both their colleges have essentially banned socializing in groups larger than 6, as well as requiring students to stay on campus my guys are leaning heavily toward studying online and living at a spot where they can socialize with their teammates. COVID be d*mned I guess.

rjm, I sent you a pm

@smokeminside posted:

because both their colleges have essentially banned socializing in groups larger than 6, as well as requiring students to stay on campus my guys are leaning heavily toward studying online and living at a spot where they can socialize with their teammates. COVID be d*mned I guess.

Exactly. Human nature. No way we are stopping it folks.