no-stride

One advantage is it keeps you from over-striding.

Ben

The no stride may work for guys in the bigs but I dont like it for young players--- I see the stride as part of the system that creates power---no stride to me is almost hitting flatfooted

Once the heel of the front foot touches the ground, you should be in the same position regardless whether a stride was used or not.

Ben, we teach no-stride. We seem to have several players that can generate a lot of power. I believe in that system to the point that I have my own child hitting that way. The results have been a high average and above average power. We have a dozen posters that can and will post why they think various systems work. The key then is to get your swing to the point that you hit the ball with your body and not your arms or unconnected parts of your body. I've found that we can be "on time", be compact, and have to ability to recognize spin doing what we do. JMHO!

CoachB25, you will always be successful....Less hands and arms and more connection will always work.....

Would you stop a player that has a stride like A-Rod. Would he be better without it? Almost every coach my kid ever had wanted to change him and get less stride. However, he hits frequently and long. Would you change him? Here is the menu
1. No stride
2. Almost no stride. Turn the knee in, hit.
3. Leg kick and go
4. Traditional 4-7" stride, leg low to ground
5. Negative stride (Bagwell)

Would you change all hitters to no stride?

I don't post often because my baseball knowledge is lacking. However, my son, has struggled since the beginning of the HS season. With CoachB's assistance he has eliminated the stride and has been been hitting with more confidence. A widse man once said "good one less thing to worry about" (Forrest Gump). Get the heel down and hit the ball. Simplifies things. This may not be necessary for all hitters, but is working for mine.

My son also uses the "No Stride" approach thanks to his hitting instructor. He eliminated all the unnecessary forward movement prior to the swing. Now he stays back, reads the pitch longer, rarely strikes out and still hits with enough power.

There are different approaches for different hitters.
I had the pleasure of watching a 5'8" 150 lb guy driving 400 footers into the stands a few years back. He used no stride, but a system of hinges, hips, shoulder, knee and ankle. He coiled and loaded very efficiently and exploded toward the ball, Quick hips, shoulders closed hands inside the ball, nice extension follow thru, head always right on the ball. I asked this 50 something guy to give me some advice for my high school players. He was happy to, came to the school and worked with us, then hired me as an instructor. His name is Denny Doyle. A great man who cares about kids and loves teaching. He had a nice 11 yr career and could always hit for a little guy.
I know all of the Pujols fans will say he wasn't a great hitter, but I for one know that to put on the uniform in the show, you Have to be a great hitter, actually 1 of the top 7-800 in the country.
I do not change hitters to a no-stride approach unless a kid is young and has too much movement with his stride foot, too long a stride or too much head movement due to his stride.
It can work well when a players grasps it, and the stride can work just as well.
Ths approach gave me a new appreciation toward hitting and allows me to be flexible as an instructor.

BBPapa, I didn't read anyone saying that all hitters must be no-stride. Some hitters have traditionally had an incredibly high leg kick that I don't like. They were getting paid to play. It worked for them. We instruct, we adjust, we try to improve and sometimes we change, but only when a hitter comes looking for those things and seeks improvement.

quote:

I for one know that to put on the uniform in the show, you Have to be a great hitter, actually 1 of the top 7-800 in the country.

Coachric,

I like what you have to say. If I may, a bit of a correction in the above statement. Should read... actually 1 of less than 400 (rest are pitchers) in the World

For the most part I believe the above to be correct at any given time other than a few in foriegn countries and a few on there way up to the Big Leagues.

Not many Albert Pujols, but not that many Denny Doyles either if you think about it. 11 years does not happen by accident!

You are absolutely right PG, probably 1 of 400 or so. I really appreciate guys like Doyle who give back in some way or another and guys like those of the PG staff that afford hope and opportunity.

No stride hitting is probably the most predominant system being taught today. It is one reason power numbers are down. I like it for Pujols and some others, but most kids and even grown players are not beasts. I still maintain the following.

(1) Look for simple (no stride, little hand movement, etc.) that can hit at least 33% of all hits for extra bases.
(2) Look for players who can hit in three-dimensional space with movement at least 33% extra base hits to total hits.
(3) Look for speed that can hit the ball down and get to first any way they can.

Most players should not be taught no stride.

baseballpapa, I'm glad you believe in what you belive in. Of course I don't agree. I believe in our system and it has worked. Our power numbers are extremely good for a high school team. Of course, you might argue that those doubles and triples would be HRs if they were to stride. Each to their own. Regarding your question about changing hitters. I don't ever change a hitter until I've watched them and allowed them to either have success or failure doing what they do. Then, I step in. Personally for me, I believe so much in what we do that I'd never do anthing differently.

Bluedog, I don't understand why anyone would want to hit any other way. As you well know, hitting a ball with your body is much more efficient than just using arms or "extenstion" or... Side note, we coach my girl's softball team in the same manner. One of our girls today hit a major bomb out of the park doing what we teach. Again, it's about being on time and using your body. JMHO!

quote:

Of course, you might argue that those doubles and triples would be HRs if.......

I see coaches argue this and I consider them to be complete fools......

BD

Is that because they argue and disagree with you?

I have seen coaches ruin a player's season with this stupid tactic....More than once....

Far too many coaches overcoach because they don't know any better.....

baseballpapa-

there is no correlation between the "no-stride" approach and having to be a beast.... and the "no-stride" approach and power numbers being down... (what power numbers??? [whose?])

otherwise there would prob need to be a relationship between length of stride and power... which is absurd.

Diablo,

Are you saying a player who uses a stride would hit as fast (hard) if they did not stride? Would A-Rod and Griffey do better to not stride? How about Will Clark?

Guys, there is only 1, thats right, 1 big league hitter who doesn't stride. Jim Edmonds. All the rest are striders. They may use a no stride technique, some of them, but they are all striding except Edmonds.

Length of stride has nothing to do with power. Power comes from torque and from momentum. A longer stride doesn't equate to more momentum and more power.

I guess all you NON STRIDERS would teach all the pitchers to not stride when they throw and all the postion players to not stride when they throw as well.

Is it really the stride thats the problem or is it the teacher/ coach that doesn't know how to teach STRIDE ON TIME thats the problem?

Agreed, except length of stride may translate to force of contact.

quote:

Originally posted by Vance34:
Is it really the stride thats the problem or is it the teacher/ coach that doesn't know how to teach STRIDE ON TIME thats the problem?

Guess you've got me on that one. It couldn't be that I just believe in one more than the other. :]

I'm sure you believe in the one you can teach! But its the one you can't teach that all the best hitters in the world are using! Do you even understand the terms load and unload? Sorry for my what looks like sarcasim, I'm just disappointed in how all the coaching in AMERICA is killing the game of baseball. Baseball is a game of momentum. A game of Movement. Why are all the coaches making all the American players stand still to play the game. Go to Latin America or the Dominican and watch how all those kids move their bodys when they play and we over here complain because American Players are getting less and less chances to play AMERICA's GAME!!!!!!!!

However PAPA, more than likely it will not!

V34: If it is inefficient it will not, however, if I step and punch I can generate more momentum than if I stand still or if I step a little. Too much and I cannot efficiently rotate through the punch.

V34 I still agree with you. We spend so much on lessons to get slappers. I pulled the plug on paid lessons when he was 13. The only reason coaches are getting some power is metal, thin walls, high-tech bats. Most coaches, including my son's high school coach that played pro ball would never teach his swing. However, his coach told him he is the best hitter he has ever coached. He hits 1 homerun per 14 ABs and 40-45% of his hits are extra base hits. He strides, he moves, he hits.

baseballpapa-

again, stride does not equal power... not even close... if your theory was even half way right, then explain Bagwell's reverse-stride??

and i can show you 100 video clips of a boxer knocking a guy out without striding... they just create a great amount of torque in body (by counter-rotating torso/thighs)... and then explode....

Then why do baseball players stride? Your saying all would be better by not striding. Stride produces momentum and an object in motion is easier to get in motion than an object from a dead stop. Also, when the hands stay back and the player strides it creates torque (or distance) that also creates power.

Diablo, have your kids hit a ball with no stride off a tee on a field. Measure the distance. Then let them stride and hit and report back which ball went further.

With metal bats you get more contact and less strikeouts without striding, but it does cause loss of power. If I were a high school coach (or even college) I might teach no to little stride because more contact equals more wins. However, the players are not prepared to hit with wood. I always told my kid I am NOT teaching him to be a good high school player.

Diablo, your on the right track. But stay away from that counter rotation stuff. Good hitters load the body from the front hip and they unload the body from the hip as well. I call it proper posture. Guys that over stride have no idea how to load the body properly so they rely solely on linear movement to create their momentum.

Lets use the boxer analogy already used. A boxer that knocks a guy out with very little stride to punch is using his body optimally to generate momentum. How? Well he loads the body and he unloads the body from the middle, from the hips. BUT, he also does something else correctly. He rotates into the punch without pulling his punch arm elbow down to his side. SO, he has created both a quick punch and a punch with power because he started the punch from his hips and not his feet or his arms.

There are many LONG STRIDERS in the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.

PAPA, I agree about the aluminum bat and contact and you to have a good grasp. Torque is created by keeping the shoulders square while the hip opens. If keeping the hands back help keep the shoulders square, Then, thats a good thing.

Its become the AMERICAN WAY. STAND STILL AND STRIDE REALLY EARLY THEN SLAP AT THE BALL. AMATUER COACHING in AMERICA is not slowly, but QUICKLY killing the game for the American players.

Papa,

Following your logic....


Why don't golfers stride to hit a golf ball?

Go back and look at the Albert Pujols thread and the video of him hitting. That is the "no-stride" technique. Noone has professed that this is a no foot movement technique. Simply that starting the swing in the position you would end up in if you took a stride is a simpler method. You use a simpler trigger mechanism (small movement of the foot...NOT a stride) in place of the stride or leg lift. Watch the video of Pujols and then the Jeter video that is also posted there. In that swing he double taps his foot before the leg lift. My point is that you want to teach a swing that a player can learn and understand. The more mechanical pieces you add to it, the more difficult it is to master and comprehend.

This is similar to the change over the past few years in pirching deliveries from the older style of lifting your arms over your head to a simpler motion with less movement (ala Pedro Martinez). The older methods don't disappear, but newer ones come along and a few use them. If these pioneers are sucessful, others will follow. Look at Andruw Jones....He went back to a wider stance and much smaller movement of the front leg last season. The reason was balance. The result...51 HRs last year and a pace to hit near 40 this year. Doesn't seem to me that there is a loss of power there.

You fell into my trap. Look at Happy Gilmore. He runs at the golf ball.

basbeallpapa- I never said all would be better if there was no striding.... I said stride length does not equal power - and it still doesn't... you said there is a relationship between stride length and power - not so... too much of a stride is easily a bad thing (lack of balance just name one bad thing in an over stride...)

yes, stride produces momentum... but so does sneezing....
momentum is nothing more than mass x velocity... and we are talking about the velocity you get your upper body going in the swing.... and it is an object in motuion stays in motion...

and i agree about torque in the swing... but you get torque (as well) (which is an agent of rotation) as you slightly counter rotate your torso (front shoulder slightly down and in) as your hips are exploding when they initiate your swing. kinda like the lure at the end of your rod going back and before it reaches its furthest point back, it is getting yanked forward (torque in the rod) by the handle of the rod traveling forward....

I am not saying by any means that my way is the right way or the best way... i am saying that no-stride does not mean lack of power... i have over 50 players i have coached since they were in high school who are currently playin gin college... and i had four drafted this year... about 10% (of guys in college) are no-striders... it is not for everyone.... never said it was...

and you also foregot to mention that
metal bats = bad mechanics.... too many arms and hand hitters... that is why they fail when they finally face quality college pitching and or have a chance to swing wood bats, and can't... i hate to quote Ted Williams, but it Ain't the Arrow, it's the Indian.....

metal bats do not equal more contact... the barrels are the same width as wood.... people can't swing the wood, because they have aluminum mechanics...

Vance- then wouldn't it be true that if torque is created by keeping front shoulder square as hips open... that you would create even more torque if your front shoulder was slightly in (rotated) as hips opened??? That is where MLB measures it's toque angle in hitters.... the angle out the front of shoulder and the angle out the front of hip (front beingleftside of a RH hitter..)

Agree that stride does not necessarily equate to power. The key is using your middle properly in creating weight shift momentum to your front side...stride or no stride.

Don't agree with counter-rotation...it's more a matter of creating tension/resistance in loading the shoulders which will whip around in following the hips during rotation.

JMHO

It's very clear from all of the videos, that clearing the hips was the common thread with all of those great hitters generating power!! Their hips are cleared and lower body was facing the pitcher almost completely before the arms come through, there were several different strides/lengths. JMHO