Nothing but curve balls

That is a tough one, I feel your pain.  Jr. was pitched the same way last seasons...he would get nothing but the junk.  What makes it worse is the pitcher who can "unexpectedly" throw the heater in....really messes with the timing, and VERY hard to practice.  The only example of someone who employed a good strategy against being pitched around (which is basically what this is), was Barry Bonds.  He was as disciplined as I've ever seen...he never chased bad pitches, and his only strategy was:  hit the hanging curve (don't chase anything but the center cut curve ball), punish any fastballs when you get them, and the third option, which he did often - take the walk.

i hate seeing kids pitched around in HS, but it happens...great compliment to your boy, but frustrating, and not much fun!

IMO - only way to practice this is live arm, and by someone who can spin it good, while mixing in the occasional fastball.

good luck!

My son moved to the front of the box challenging pitchers to throw fastballs or risk him catching the breaking ball early.

The only known cure for this is learn to hit the curveball. No big secret here. As the father of a son who was also' pitched around' in HS the thing to learn is not get yourself out by expanding the zone unnecessarily. One very good drill is soft toss from directly behind the plate as this will force him to keep hands back. Play catch with a pitcher and have him throw curveballs to your son to sharpen recognizing the spin. Just a few ideas that seemed to work for my own son. And congrats on the respect shown to him!

All good and useful replies. Thank you.

A double-A coach recently told JP that one key ... is to consciously lay off the low stuff.His exact quote was "Don't chase low."

That's helped.

Since we all know you can't run from it, what IS the key to having the patience to hit the curve ball well consistently (bacdoor - you may have summed it up with the Bonds example ... just looking for other thoughts).

jp24, is your son seeing the spin and recognizing curve ball early but  not able to stay back with his hands or is he not seeing the curve ball at all or very late? omm's thoughts are pretty solid if it is the latter.

Bonds is pretty unique because reportedly he could see the spin and recognize curve ball almost out of the pitchers hand and he was so quick and short(and really powerful) to and through the ball.

I wonder if steroids heighten the senses? 

My thoughts, may be useless, but would also to really increase focus on visual recognition.  Study, study, study and watch-really watch- pitchers throwing. The arm slots. Increase time spent on focusing on the ball coming out of the pitcher's hand. Study video tape of alot of pitchers. Have him spend even more time on the bench and on deck studying the pitcher throwing. Look for anything that could be a tip.  Early and successful recognition could help with the patience issue.

On top of that...and this may seem weird...but make sure he is up to date with an eye doctor visit.  You never know...I have heard many positive stories of players where success followed after making sure their prescription was correct and vision was properly taken care of.

 I know this is "out of the box" and nothing to do with mechanics, but I really believe a good hitter can "see the baseball" better than most.

haha read my mind exactly...posted before me, but same thoughts as well

How good of a fastball hitter is he?  If it's going to be rare to sneak a fastball by him I would look for curve first just to recognize pitches.

How to learn how to hit the curve

1.  Back soft toss as Oldmanmoses said

2.  High soft toss from side - basic soft toss but have the feeder throw it about chin high.  Have him trigger when feeder hand is coming down before coming up to toss.  This separates the trigger from the swing and helps to keep the hands back.  A lot of young / overanxious hitters want to start the swing as soon as the front foot has triggered.  When you do that anything that breaks or changes speeds will eat you alive.

3.  L-screen curve tosses - have him about 10 - 15 feet away from L screen.  Have the feeder sit on a bucket and lob balls over the screen to get that "hump" action.  At this distance they can put some spin on the ball without losing accuracy.  Once again make sure they are keeping their hands back from their trigger.  This drill isn't perfect and I wouldn't spend a lot of time on it.  But it does serve as a good intro to the break of the curve whether it be break into the zone or out of the zone.  Hope you can understand what I'm talking about.

4.  I like the idea of catching someone throwing curves.

5.  Similar to number four - have your son put a helmet on, grab a bat and stand in when a pitcher is throwing a bullpen.  Have him call out the pitches, location and ball or strike.  Early on you can tell him what pitch is coming but at some point transition to having him recognize it.

Jp....I think the main way to hit the curve consistently is to be able to pick it up early.....if you can't read it early, it's a hit and miss proposition.  Take it from a pitching guy who teaches how to avoid hitters from picking it up until it's too late.  If your boy can pick it up then more than half of the battle is won...then he can focus on staying back, and like the AA coach said, only hit the mistakes up in the zone.

Few HS pitchers are good at disguising the curve ball...use this to your advantage.  Watch the pitcher like a hawk when warming up... VERY few HS pitchers throw a good plus curve ball...almost all do something to tip the pitch...different arm angle, different release point, and most slow the arm and body down versus when throwing fastballs.  Once he is good at picking these "tips" up, then I am confident he will crush the mistakes, which at this level there will be many.  I PREACH to Jr., that his off speed pitches should be thrown out of the zone, but make them look like fastballs that are strikes.  Few can do that, so make it as simple as you can...recognize the pitch first, then if the ball is up, look to crush, if the pitch is down let it go....if they don't miss "up" take your base.   Picking up the pitch is critical.

Excellent points James, not useless at all.

Coach2709...I like number 2.... Many can't stay back...while I'm not a fan of many drills, I think this will help in waiting...once your weight is transferred to your front foot too early, you're done....this will help with that.  Thanks for sharing.

ALL OF THIS is good. More context:

- JP does have eye issues. Wears contacts; so we're always trying to stay a step ahead on that front. I had a chance to chat with Tony Larussa last year about JP .. and he passed along one piece of advice: "Tell him one thing: 'See the ball, hit the ball.'"

Well then ... seeing it kinda matters. But it's always a question.

- An ex MLB'er who was good at the plate told me recently that VERY FEW batters can REALLY pick up the spin. My gut tends to believe that.

- Studying the pitcher before he comes to the plate?? This is my BIGGEST frustration. He doesn't -- and honestly, it frustrates the you-know-what out of me. If he goes on, I'm assuming coaches will INSIST on it. P-L-E-A-S-E!!! But at barely 16, playing varsity ... he just doesn't - no matter how hard Dad tries. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Here's the thing: JP will get K'd on balls that bounce in the dirt a foot outside  sometimes, and it pisses him off. Good! It should, because the pitcher kicked his ass! He always improves as the season goes on, but he still gets suckered too often.

And to boot: He actually came home after a tourney last week ... incredulous, saying: "They threw me 10 curve balls in a row!" I just shook my head and told him: "And they will: as long as you chase, and until you make them pay."

The funny thing was his response: "In summer ball (he played in Jupiter at 15) they don't! They challenge hitters."

I get that (and 2709: He can hit fastballs and hanging curves; it's his gift). But ... in the summer, pitchers are BETTER .. and ... they are usually trying to show scouts their stuff.

So ok. I get that. But GAMES (like HS games) are all about WINNING -- and if you lack plate discipline ... watch out, boy.

'Cause that's BASEBALL. And you'd d better figure it out.

I worked with my son on this from the age of 10.  Bouncing a ball from behind the L-Screen to teach him to wait back, a drill he still does now.  Several of the other drills that were also mentioned as well.  

We also worked on reading the pitcher from his delivery point and pitch spin.  He has become very proficient at reading the spin and with his ability to hit curves, sliders and change ups because of it.  He can usually tell when the curve is coming from the pitchers release point.  On occasion he won't be able to but will pick up the spin. Fortunately all of this has not sacrificed his ability to identify a fastball.  

He also hits with a guy that throws several minutes of just curves and then mixes them in with fastballs.  

He's learned to stay back and drive them to right center.

So far he's only had to deal with guys that max out in the 83-86 range.  Hopefully this will continue as he moves along.

All good hitters go thru this. Adjust to the pitcher. Guess and look for the "high curve"ball. Use your batting helmet look thru the ear hole to the pitcher for his tipping of pitches. Clemente, Aaron, Williams, Delmon, Torii were "foxes" at the plate.

They "set up" the pitchers. It can be a beautiful game with inner arrogance

Bob

"founder of Area Code Baseball and Goodwill Series

when my son was taking pitching lessons I would ask his coach to show me how to throw curve balls for BP.  He showed me and I would practice and after a few years I'm OK at it. So I'll throw curve balls and sliders to my son and then mix it in with fast balls and change ups (Vulcan and Split Finger). My goal is to have TJ surgery when I turn 60 so I can brag to other old farts.  I figure throwing curve ball BP will get me there

The drills and recognition of the pitch are long term keys, but we are big fans of " see the ball , hit the ball". If he is up there and it is in his head he is at a disadvantage. In our area there are very few pitchers that can consistently throw it for a strike, they generally use it as a pitch for the batter to chase out of the zone. So looking for your pitch in your zone until two strikes is the key. My son tries to let the curve ball go unless either it is hung over the plate or he has two strikes , then he is in protect mode . He of course has had a couple of memorable flails at the curve out of the zone but generally does not offer.

An added benefit is we have noticed the umpires also don't generally give the late breaking ball that catches a corner of the plate to the pitcher, so not offering early increases your chances you will get a pitch to handle as the count goes in your favor.

jp,

I bet your kid can pick up a CB... unless the pitcher has a dynamite change-up, too (rare in HS). He doesn't have to pick up the spin to recognize the velocity drop. If so, I think the quickest, easiest and most effective thing he could do immediately is to not swing at any CBs until he has 2 strikes. If the pitcher can throw it for strikes, more power to him.

If he can stay disciplined in this approach it will serve 4 purposes:

1) he'll get ahead in the count more

2) he'll see more fastballs (see #1)

3) he won't get as frustrated during his AB

4) he'll get a couple of looks at the CB before he has to swing at it

If this approach works for him, then I would slowly add in some hacks at the hangers, but I wouldn't do that until he sees a benefit from not swinging at all.

Good luck!

jp24.

Sent you a PM.

Moses;

When Delmon Young signed his first year and played in the Arizona Fall League, his father called me. Bob, do you know what Delmon age 18 did today?

No, Larry, what did he do? Larry said Delmon swung at a pitch outside on purpose.

The pitcher threw the same pitch and Delmon hit it off the right field wall.

Clemente and Aaron used to do this.

When you see a "full white" ball = curve. Red dot = slider and 1/2 ball = fast ball.

Split finer and change you guess.

Bonds looked for the "red seams".

Not all hitters have above average eye sight, but a young hitter can try to fine focus and he will have results.

"relax concentration"

Bob

Doesn't this approach kick the can down the road, so to speak?  I mean, if a player never swings at a curve ball how is he going to learn to hit it?  Isn't it better to learn this as early as possible, rather than pushing it off to college?

Front flips with a high arc.  Makes the hitter stay back.  Find somebody who can throw curves to him.  It just a matter of seeing more and adjusting.

Smitty28, you could be right. But the way I read it, his biggest problem isn't missing CBs in the zone, it's laying off of unhittable CBs.

Hitting the curve ball is easy if you have the right magic. 

This is right. He can hit a hanger. It's the deliberate outside-the-zone pitch he struggles with.

Off to first District game. Send good vibes, my HSBBW FAMILY!!!

LOL no offense but everyone struggles with these pitches.

Now that I've read more it does seem more to be a discipline / recognition issue.  Best way to get a fastball to hit is learn to get walked on curve balls out of the zone.  He just needs to work on separating the trigger from the swing to keep his hands back and driving a hittable curve ball to the opposite field.

Hope he had a good day with a win.