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@PABaseball posted:

Does it matter?

Application deadlines start coming up in November. At a certain point I'd be more worried about deciding where I'm applying early decision/action and finishing the common app than I would be about getting more video to schools who have already sent NLIs out.

I think it matters for the HS junior - meaning, it it's true, then the HS junior knows that he needs to really ramp up his recruiting efforts to have something in place before November of his senior year.

If you'd asked me that a month or 2 ago, I'd be inclined to agree that it's largely accurate.  But the year of Covid has continued to humble me in many ways; many things have not panned out the way I guessed.  In many cases, things were worse than my guess, but in a crazy turn of events, baseball recruiting has been far better off than I feared.  I'm smack dab in the middle of the country - Omaha, NE - and commitments continue to roll in almost every single day.  I figured 2021 commitments around here would be VERY rare after signing day last week, but at least a half dozen more kids have committed in the last week.  Some to good JUCO programs.  And I still anticipate a lot of 2021s to commit over the coming weeks and months.  There are still some very good players available around here and I've seen less talented guys already commit.

I realize that there are exceptions out there, but check this out.  Last week, my son signed his LOI alongside 4 guys on his high school team.  3 of the 5 are guys I NEVER saw playing college ball in normal/non-Covid years, yet they signed to decent programs last week.  Now, are they being offered to help fund the program/university?  Possibly.  Will they have long college ball careers?  Not likely.  But I was under the impression that Covid was going to push guys like that out.  Everyone keeps talking about how ALL 5 levels of college ball are going to be significantly better due to Covid, so I was prepared to see ALL fringe and even some solid players be left without a chair at the table by now.  But I've seen nothing to indicate that up to this point.  I've been worried about a lot of my son's 2021 peers, but those worries have all been put to rest (at least for now).  I'm not naïve enough to think all will be fine, but from my perspective and all I've seen around here, the projected carnage seems to be delayed.  Last week at my son's LOI signing ceremony (it wasn't just baseball players), the Principal said it was their largest number of commits ever.  Maybe the bad news will come pouring in over the coming weeks, but up to this point?  Everything I've seen looks great and better than I'd anticipate in NORMAL times.  And keep in mind that we are not in a baseball hotbed of talent.  There's certainly talent here, but the Midwest population is obviously tiny compared to other places.  I expected broken 2021 hearts everywhere I looked, but that's FAR from the case right now.  I'm happy to be wrong!

Disagree.

Really depends on the players profile and projectability and other factors such has how many conversations and "irons in the fire" he has going as well as other circumstances. COVID certainly complicates the situation. Mine did not commit until May 1st of his Sr year, given this was awhile ago (2011). I know the recruiting calendar is more compressed now but he had coaches watching him pitch/play (2 way player) during the spring break HS tournaments. Now the player may have to be lining up JC options as a back up but my son had programs telling him they needed to see what would happen in the draft...which was summer before school started. Maddening - yes, but there are all kinds of options late in the game. 

There were all kinds of options late in the game in 2011.  Not so much now. Top level JuCos are done with 2021 recruiting. D1s have been in an extended Dead Period and have overflowing rosters already. A new recruiting class is the last thing they need. Lots of D3 schools won’t play at all in 2021. Recruiting isn’t a high priority for them right now either. Roster cuts in next 30 days will send a wave of players looking for a new home which will be much harder for them to find than in previous years.

Probably depends too if your son has relationships with any programs (except maybe JuCo). I have heard of kids making rosters late but that is stressful. it’s always nice to be able for your son to send an email/text the recruiting coach to see where they are at.
My son signed his LOI late October to a NAIA school. His other school he was looking at wasn’t to the point of making him an offer to after the first of the year.
So, as stated here..lots of offers going out throughout the year.

Some of it depends on how badly a young man wants to have a chance to play in college. What is he willing to give up college wise. There are some programs, Mostly in the lower division who have little to no recruiting budgets. Some of these programs have to wait for players to find them. And some take all comers.

What do the young men have to sacrafice?

  • Maybe the schoold does not have the major that they are interested in.
  • School is not a good fit.
  • Many of these schools are consitently at the bottom of their respective confrence.
  • Facilites may be poor.
  • And others.

Many times these situations just do not work out. And I would never suggest someone take one of these opporutnities, just for baseball.

Some of it depends on how badly a young man wants to have a chance to play in college. What is he willing to give up college wise. There are some programs, Mostly in the lower division who have little to no recruiting budgets. Some of these programs have to wait for players to find them. And some take all comers.

What do the young men have to sacrafice?

  • Maybe the schoold does not have the major that they are interested in.
  • School is not a good fit.
  • Many of these schools are consitently at the bottom of their respective confrence.
  • Facilites may be poor.
  • And others.

Many times these situations just do not work out. And I would never suggest someone take one of these opporutnities, just for baseball.

The, fallback question ... After all the sacrifices to say you played college ball does your dad own his own business and will hire you?

I know a kid whose father left no dollar unspent after the kid was a LL all star. The kid grew to 5’10” with mediocre foot speed and a puss arm. He was the #3 pitcher at a 1A high school. A baseball academy was always willing to take the money and place him on the B travel team. The kid was signed up for the full year round package.

He “walked on” at a losing D3 with poor facilities, mediocre academics and sat for four years. His father still brags his kid played for a prominent baseball academy and played college ball. The typical person hears “college ball” and envisions what they see on tv. In a few years the kid will take over dad’s business.

@RJM posted:

The, fallback question ... After all the sacrifices to say you played college ball does your dad own his own business and will hire you?

I know a kid whose father left no dollar unspent after the kid was a LL all star. The kid grew to 5’10” with mediocre foot speed and a puss arm. He was the #3 pitcher at a 1A high school. A baseball academy was always willing to take the money and place him on the B travel team. The kid was signed up for the full year round package.

He “walked on” at a losing D3 with poor facilities, mediocre academics and sat for four years. His father still brags his kid played for a prominent baseball academy and played college ball. The typical person hears “college ball” and envisions what they see on tv. In a few years the kid will take over dad’s business.

Sure. I mean there will always be those examples but for the most part, players have to have some talent or they don’t last 4 years as a general rule..I guess you do need BP catcher but... normally get cut for a JuCo transfer their junior year etc. . My son is a D3/NAIA talent level. He was getting all kinds of interest from these D3 schools out East that cost 40-50k a year tuition. His GPA is 4.14. Top 10 of his class. Went NAIA since within academics and athletics $$, was able to secure full tuition as a RHP. They have the same number of athletic scholarships as D1
Last thing...the HC he signed with asked him who else he was considering when we went for our visit last December. He warned us to be careful of programs that sign kids with big JV squads..he said they love kids with high GPA, keep big rosters, don’t get on varsity very quickly unless stand out right away.  Sure enough, his other A pick was doing that.

At our local HS during Special jr's Senior year, no less than 3 players signed in the late winter/early spring. Two were P's, one a position player. One was a HA.

   One of P's, after a rocky first year, was killing it in his second at a mid major, and there was talk of him being drafted if it weren't for the changes in the draft.



  So, while it is better to have something nailed down by Early Decision day, coaches are still looking...especially for P's that are projectable.

@medicineman posted:

Sure. I mean there will always be those examples but for the most part, players have to have some talent or they don’t last 4 years as a general rule..I guess you do need BP catcher but... normally get cut for a JuCo transfer their junior year etc. . My son is a D3/NAIA talent level. He was getting all kinds of interest from these D3 schools out East that cost 40-50k a year tuition. His GPA is 4.14. Top 10 of his class. Went NAIA since within academics and athletics $$, was able to secure full tuition as a RHP. They have the same number of athletic scholarships as D1
Last thing...the HC he signed with asked him who else he was considering when we went for our visit last December. He warned us to be careful of programs that sign kids with big JV squads..he said they love kids with high GPA, keep big rosters, don’t get on varsity very quickly unless stand out right away.  Sure enough, his other A pick was doing that.

JV players rarely make varsity. Next year 6-8 new preferred recruits come in. These are players the coach walk their applications through admissions. There are D3s where the coaches get pay bonuses for recruiting a certain number of full paid “recruits” whether or not they ever see the field. It’s revenue for the school.

A friend told me his son told him on the first day of D3 fall ball there were 27 players who thought they were recruited vying for 3 roster spots. Even though D3s don’t have roster limits this coach only kept 32. The 29 players with secure spots were either returning players or freshman legit preferred recruits.

This is a known baseball coach with a solid baseball reputation. It’s how the recruiting game is played. Making it to campus only means an opportunity to prove you belong.

Five years ago LHP son was seen in a great outing by Pitching Coach of Landmark D3 school. Visit was set up on campus with HC and top Asst. Told he was a recruit and expected to make team after Fall tryout. Fast forward 65 freshman show up for Fall. After a month and a half tryout son was last "recruit" cut.

Moral to the story, the school was a great fit regardless of baseball and academic scholarship money anyway and he had a great four years and met great friends. He got over disappointment but first semester grades were below average due to the stress of tryout. Some friends over the years quit program even quit program including a senior Captain before season.

Bottom line, I swear Coach was encouraged to get players into school to fill more seats for University regardless of them making team or not. He probably told 30 freshman the same thing when he met with them.

@RJM posted:

The, fallback question ... After all the sacrifices to say you played college ball does your dad own his own business and will hire you?

I know a kid whose father left no dollar unspent after the kid was a LL all star. The kid grew to 5’10” with mediocre foot speed and a puss arm. He was the #3 pitcher at a 1A high school. A baseball academy was always willing to take the money and place him on the B travel team. The kid was signed up for the full year round package.

He “walked on” at a losing D3 with poor facilities, mediocre academics and sat for four years. His father still brags his kid played for a prominent baseball academy and played college ball. The typical person hears “college ball” and envisions what they see on tv. In a few years the kid will take over dad’s business.

Yes, this is never a path I would suggest. Especially with no fallback. We say it often here. "would you go to the school, without baseball".

These D3 stories give me angina.  My 2023 is likely a D3 player.  Great grades.  Likely will have good test scores.  I don't want him being led along just because of his grades and ability to pay tuition.

Understandable..it’s why my son went NAIA. He looked at some D3’s in the area but with NAIA, we knew they really wanted him with the athletic $$ and Academic $$ they put on the table.  NAIA plays more games than than D3 per season and plays many of the same teams he was considering in the state (out of the conference). We he started out the process, didn’t consider NAIA..but as time went on..made total sense for him. Great schools..can do pre-med/play ball AND get full tuition covered. Can’t beat it for him.

These D3 stories give me angina.  My 2023 is likely a D3 player.  Great grades.  Likely will have good test scores.  I don't want him being led along just because of his grades and ability to pay tuition.

My son was recruited by quite a few D3's. We talked to people familiar with the programs and my son. He ruled out some based on their knowledge.

When talking to colleges it is very important to hear what the coach, is saying, and not what you hope to hear. Recruiters are very good at phrasing things in a way that allow recruits, to interpret things in a way, that may not be entirety true.

You will have opportunity turns into he will start, freshman year. In the recruits and parents mind.

Also find a program that loves you. You will know it when you experience it.

Do your due diligence and and things usually turn out fine. However that is never a guarantee. It's baseball after all.

The Top D3’s that usually compete for a National Championship are right now competing for the top D1 drop downs.  That is the up to the minute update in 2020.  Some very high level Power 5 recruited freshman have been cut in the last few weeks from their D1 and are weighing their options as to whether enroll at a JUCO or a D3.

I guarantee you, most D3 recruiting coordinators are way more excited about some kid that just got cut from LSU or Vanderbilt than any high school Senior.

”Go where you are loved” is more important than ever.  “Go where you will love the school regardless of Baseball” is equally important.

If you are a borderline D2/D3 guy, you are a D3 guy.

The Top D3’s that usually compete for a National Championship are right now competing for the top D1 drop downs.  That is the up to the minute update in 2020.  Some very high level Power 5 recruited freshman have been cut in the last few weeks from their D1 and are weighing their options as to whether enroll at a JUCO or a D3.

I guarantee you, most D3 recruiting coordinators are way more excited about some kid that just got cut from LSU or Vanderbilt than any high school Senior.

”Go where you are loved” is more important than ever.  “Go where you will love the school regardless of Baseball” is equally important.

If you are a borderline D2/D3 guy, you are a D3 guy.

Great advice: “Go where you are loved”.
My son was at a PBR as a sophomore at a NAIA school which was hosting and the coach there had a great speech that I over heard. I think it may have sunk in to my son at least. He said: “Every one wants to play D1. I get it, but it’s rarely. Most players who play college baseball don’t play D1. 2). Go to a school you want to got to college for first, play baseball second. Or least 50/50. If you got there just going to play baseball, you maybe disappointed. Make sure it’s a good fit for you and what you want to study. 3). Make sure the coach wants you. If you have a choice between two schools, go to the school where the HC coach wants you the most. (Actually was a BIG determining factor where he signed). It will make a difference. 4). Is playing time important to you? You will get more playing time on a D3 school rather than the last recruit on a D2 team. 5). Finally, he talked about NAIA college baseball..differences and similarities with NCAA.
Actually was good for us parents to hear also.

”Go where you are loved” is more important than ever.  “Go where you will love the school regardless of Baseball” is equally important.

This what many above have reiterated and I fully agree.  One of the difficulties though is you never really know where you are loved until it is too late.  A few of my son's teammates/friends were confident the coaches loved them due to encouraging words and actions.  When it got closer to opening season they started having second thoughts and by the following year they transferred out.  It could have been because  lack of talent, work ethics, team player, or others being that much better.  For that reason, I would probably give a little more weight to "go where you will love the school regardless of Baseball" since you never know when your baseball career may be over.  You are in control of what type of academic college experience you will experience and what type of degree in the end.  Others (coaches/scouts) may determine what type of baseball career you may have, that diploma nobody can take away.  It's will be an interesting ride though, enjoy it.

”Go where you are loved” is more important than ever.  “Go where you will love the school regardless of Baseball” is equally important.

This what many above have reiterated and I fully agree.  One of the difficulties though is you never really know where you are loved until it is too late.  A few of my son's teammates/friends were confident the coaches loved them due to encouraging words and actions.  When it got closer to opening season they started having second thoughts and by the following year they transferred out.  It could have been because  lack of talent, work ethics, team player, or others being that much better.  For that reason, I would probably give a little more weight to "go where you will love the school regardless of Baseball" since you never know when your baseball career may be over.  You are in control of what type of academic college experience you will experience and what type of degree in the end.  Others (coaches/scouts) may determine what type of baseball career you may have, that diploma nobody can take away.  It's will be an interesting ride though, enjoy it.

Wise words there, I fully agree

If at all possible, it is helpful to see some tangible things attached to the perspective that a recruit feels that the coaching staff truly does “love” him.  Significant academic scholarship money, help through Admissions with Early Decision.  Those types of things.  Even with all of that, there is still no guarantee of playing time, or of a long leash if a kid starts out 0 for 10 etc

Its important to remember, even at a lower level D3 etc, just about every kid on the team (certainly 98% of the athletes getting playing time) were one of the best players on their travel team or from their home town or from their high school program.

That kid on the mound in college with the filthy slider?  He doesn’t give a care about whether or not your son hit .400 in high school.  He’s going to set him up with a fastball up out of the strike zone and then make him chase the nastiness.  

As stated above.  Go somewhere with great professors who teach what you want to learn, where you feel at home on campus, where you can meet life long friends etc

(And work on hitting the fastball and laying off of the off speed stuff unless it hangs!)

One of the difficulties though is you never really know where you are loved until it is too late.

I brought “go where you are loved” to the board from a conversation I had with the father of a NC State player starting as a freshman about ten years ago. Other posters had provided the same tip using different verbiage.

At the time UNC was a far superior team. They were top five. I knew one kid there and another who had verballed.

I asked the father if UNC had shown interest. I figured if a kid can start as a freshman at NC State he must have been on UNC’s radar.

The father told me UNC had made an offer early post junior summer. He said it made them think. UNC is a superior school and a superior baseball program. But NC State had been contacting the kid every week since the beginning of the previous spring. NC State offered post soph summer. The son and then father decided NC State was a good school, a good program and they loved him. UNC was interested.

Last edited by RJM

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