Observations on WB v. Oscar Smith

Very nice observation sportsattorney, you obviously are an expert on crticizing teams and their play.
With that being said, OS baseball is on the rise, as opposed to the last say 20 years. They are a very young team that has had to make do with 1 senior and 4 juniors to start the season 3-1, albeit against your typical "bottom half of the SED" and played Hickory tighter then the 6-2 score would indicate. In case you were wondering errors do occur in pretty much every game played at each level and sometimes teams have a bad night against a good team, that's what happened here. I WAS at the game and the call in the first inning when WB 4 batter struck out looking twice but was somehow not rung up changed the entire game. Two dead nuts strikes down the middle and not a peep from the umpire, which led to the intial first 2 runs, but what are you gonna do? OS deserved to lose that game since the OF was working on their tans. You just keep pleasuring yourself to singing WB's praises, what a shockling insightful observation..."WB is a solid team." Really?

A little rough there councilor. Oscar Smith's program was in the dumps for a long time and they are showing signs of being ready to be competetive in baseball. God knows athletes aren't the problem but getting them early enough to polish them up to be at the top of the SED is a work in progress. Throwing strikes and catching the routine balls consistently are the hurdle they are trying to get over. Until they do they are probably going to be a 9-7 type team. Good enough to win thier share but against the WB, GB and NR types that just won't make as many mistakes they will struggle. It might be an exageration but if they win 10 games this year it might be the 1st time that's happened there in 15+years. Not the football team to be sure but definatly pointed in the right direction,

Well said luvbaseball, my observations exactly.

quote:

Originally posted by luv baseball:
God knows athletes aren't the problem but getting them early enough to polish them up to be at the top of the SED is a work in progress.

I think a lot of the success of the programs luvbaseball mentioned (WB, GB and NR) may be due to the youth league feeder systems that have been in place for decades. WBAC for WB, SCAA for GB and SYAA for NR (to some extent although it feeds into all three Suffolk high schools) where kids start learning the game of baseball at age 5. What league feeds into OS?

WB's test will be its next two games when it plays two teams (Great Bridge and Nansemond River) who currently are tied for second place in the SED standings.

Just call it like I see it my friend. Don't have a horse in the race or a dog in the fight. Obviously you do though.

quote:

Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
Very nice observation sportsattorney, you obviously are an expert on crticizing teams and their play.
With that being said, OS baseball is on the rise, as opposed to the last say 20 years. They are a very young team that has had to make do with 1 senior and 4 juniors to start the season 3-1, albeit against your typical "bottom half of the SED" and played Hickory tighter then the 6-2 score would indicate. In case you were wondering errors do occur in pretty much every game played at each level and sometimes teams have a bad night against a good team, that's what happened here. I WAS at the game and the call in the first inning when WB 4 batter struck out looking twice but was somehow not rung up changed the entire game. Two dead nuts strikes down the middle and not a peep from the umpire, which led to the intial first 2 runs, but what are you gonna do? OS deserved to lose that game since the OF was working on their tans. You just keep pleasuring yourself to singing WB's praises, what a shockling insightful observation..."WB is a solid team." Really?

I would even suggest that the next couple of weeks will challenge the WB team. According to this site, the combined records of the teams that WB has played thus far is 5-18. To their credit, Western Branch has beaten each of those teams very soundly. Over the next couple of weeks, they will face 4 clubs (within the district) who are a combined 14-6. This group includes three of the top four teams in the district. Challenging indeed!

If last night's game is your definition of "right direction" or "up and coming," I would hate to see "down and out." My observations were of last night's game. Not a general comment on the state of the "program."

quote:

Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
Well said luvbaseball, my observations exactly.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thesportsattorney:
Just call it like I see it my friend. Don't have a horse in the race or a dog in the fight. Obviously you do though. [QUOTE]Originally posted by SEDbaseball:

Well like I said, you have very insightful observations obviously, as well as too much time on your hands to be that detailed in your crticism and NOT have a "dog in the race".
The youth feeder leagues mentioned by WBreporter is spot on, OS has basically none, and anyone around youth PONY baseball knows WB dominates at that level as well, and those kids simply get better right up to JV ball. Our athletes play football basically.
Sportattorney, I do have a dog in the fight (I guess that makes me less qualified to respond...?)and I will defend these OS kids when i feel like they are being critcised (for being a young program on the uptick and losing to a perinneal powerhouse) by someone who should be chasing ambulances, not making "call em as I see em" scathing observations.

Been on both sides of the score. Found it to be neither fun nor beneficial. When on the winning side, get out of there as fast as possible or get the starters out of there asap. On the losing side, praise the good plays, correct the bad ones and move on.

Either way, it is not unlike other leagues or sports. You have some good teams, some middle of the road teams and some bottom feeders. Just a fact of life.

It's okay to disagree with my observations, but no need to be mean and resort to personal attacks.

quote:

Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by thesportsattorney:
Just call it like I see it my friend. Don't have a horse in the race or a dog in the fight. Obviously you do though. [QUOTE]Originally posted by SEDbaseball:

Well like I said, you have very insightful observations obviously, as well as too much time on your hands to be that detailed in your crticism and NOT have a "dog in the race".
The youth feeder leagues mentioned by WBreporter is spot on, OS has basically none, and anyone around youth PONY baseball knows WB dominates at that level as well, and those kids simply get better right up to JV ball. Our athletes play football basically.
Sportattorney, I do have a dog in the fight (I guess that makes me less qualified to respond...?)and I will defend these OS kids when i feel like they are being critcised (for being a young program on the uptick and losing to a perinneal powerhouse) by someone who should be chasing ambulances, not making "call em as I see em" scathing observations.

quote:

Originally posted by SEDbaseball:
Well like I said, you have very insightful observations obviously, as well as too much time on your hands to be that detailed in your crticism and NOT have a "dog in the race".

I am aware of Sportsattorney's identity; he has not sought to hide it. And, as he states, he does not have a dog in the fight. Has no child who has played for WB or any other high school team nor attended a high school nor would he have one playing for at least a decade. His insightful comments are from someone looking for potential pro talent. I have observed Sportsattorney attending SED games other than WB's and I understand that he will or has been attending games in other districts of the Eastern Region seeking to see the level of talent out there as he does represent professional athletes. I imagine he has attended more WB games than others, just as there were at least two scouts for pro teams at yesterday's game, because there is some talent on the WB team with potential pro ability.

His first posting in this thread gave me a chuckle to start my day, as I knew it would stir the pot. Being new to this web site, he does not realize that folks here don't like stark honesty but often prefer sugar-coated comments. Kinda like every player on every team getting a trophy.

He has not attended games regularly in past years so his commentary could only be of what he saw yesterday, not of the status of a program. I have been watching SED games for years and this is the first time that I can remember OS starting 3-2. In fact, I believe there were years when 3 may have been a number greater than their total number of victories for the season. So, yes, OS is improving and I hope they continue to improve because it is much more enjoyable to watch 1-run games, such as the Hickory / Grassfield game last night.

quote:

Originally posted by SEDBaseball: by someone who should be chasing ambulances, not making "call em as I see em" scathing observations.

BTW, it is personal injury attorneys who are accused of chasing ambulances, not business or transactional attorneys.

Three season's ago Oscar Smith was 0-18 in the district if I recall corectly and was not competetive in any phase prior to the current coach. If they navigate the season to an 8-8 or 9-7 finish and make the district playoffs I think any reasonable person would recognize that progress and call it a move in the right direction.

I also think Reporter is right when he talks about the feeder system which includes the travel ball that really is non existent in the OS district. So the staff there needs to get players in 8th grade and coach'em up. For this reason they will probably always be playing catch up and be rough around the edges. One of these days if the sport catches in the district watch out. If they start making the playoffs more kids will turn out and that 5'11" wideout with marginal prospects will become a killer CF and leadoff guy. Think about a team with 5-6 Garrett Brookes types running around. Mix in two live arms and you'll have something.

The majority of Oscar Smith's roster is made up of players from the Greenbrier middle school and Greenbrier baseball organization(GAA/Panthers). Unfortunately, they have to share this talent with Indian river which also draws from Greenbrier. Eventually, Greenbrier high school (centerville tnpk) will be built and the talented players from Greenbrier will all play together for one school.

Who knows maybe it will be built in time for my 2023 and 2025 to play there....

OSCAR SMITH SCOREKEEPER COMMENTS:
Here are some Oscar Smith FACTS & personal opinions that need to stated:
• The 2011 team walked 107 in 119 innings, an average of 6.3 per 7 innings.
• Thus far in 2012, pitchers have combined to walk 15 in 32 innings, an average of 3.3 per 7 innings. You don’t have to be a brilliant lawyer to realize that’s an improvement.
• Smith’s record is 3-2 thus far in 2012. In 2008-2009, under the last regime, the team was a combined 1-35. Last year the team was 2-16… meaning they have, in the first 2 weeks of this season, ALREADY improved on last year’s total wins.
• In 2010, the first year under the new coach, OS scored a TOTAL of 9 runs in their first 8 district games. In 2011, the most runs scored in a game were 8. In the first 5 games of 2012, OS has scored 9 runs twice and 10 runs once… again, that’s improvement.
• The 2012 team is starting 4 freshmen & 3 sophomores.
• The 2012 team lost a senior catcher (relocation) who started at that position and batted .330+ for the 2011 American Legion State Champion 280 Greenbrier team.
• There is only one player on the 2012 team starting at the same position as in 2011.
• The team that showed up yesterday at WB was NOT the same team that played their first 4 games. The young guys looked like young guys playing in their first “big” game.
• You say that that Oscar Smith’s team is very “bad”; then, you say “good teams” beat teams they are “supposed to”. Well… versus Lakeland, Deep Creek, & Kings Fork consider the following:
o Oscar Smith: 3 wins, 29 runs scored, 13 runs allowed
o Western Branch: 3 wins, 28 runs scored, 5 runs allowed.
• If you were at the WB game, you HAD to see that there were a few calls that completely changed the outcome of plays, innings, and momentum… as they do in most games.
• These OS young men have been busting their butts for the past 2-3 years to change the image and dynamic of the baseball program. For someone to see ONE GAME and make a new thread just to completely TRASH them is not only completely unneeded, but displays a maturity level lower than theirs! So, one thing at least they can know is that they conduct themselves in a manner MUCH more mature & honorable than some adults.
• You also contradict yourself twice, Mr. Attorney… 1) talking about “bad” versus “good” teams as displayed 3 bullets above… and 2) YOU say that you were not making a general comment about the status of the program when your very first sentence in your original post does that EXACT thing. Also, OS is in 5th place out of 10 teams currently… not in the “bottom half.”

• Also, I need to state facts about the OS Feeder program…

South Norfolk rec baseball was a strong and decently competitive organization in the 1980s and 90s. In around 2005-2006, the league was completely folded due to serious issues with those in charge of the league and the league’s money. Kids growing up in the South Norfolk area do not have a league to join, nor, in many cases, have the type of disposable income to be playing AAU baseball. Kids growing up in this area are simply not exposed to the game.
The majority of the kids playing for OS come from a small sliver of the Greenbrier area and come through Greenbrier rec leagues (50% of the kids from this league go to IR, 50% go to OS).

To Mr. Attorney, I would like to say… Maturity? Integrity? Maybe you should look those up in addition to “Pitching”!

SURPRISINGLY, to me, I find it difficult to imagine that someone would think it’s funny to laugh at someone generating a new thread that completely bashes a bunch of young ballplayers. That's not anything to chuckle about! Of course this individual thread would “stir the pot.” If this person went out of their way to create an individual thread about Western Branch after they lost 10-0 to Indian River a couple of years back and said that the WB pitcher, who won numerous games in his 4-year career, was clueless and terrible after watching that one single game where he and 2 others gave up 3 homeruns, etc… I’m sure this “professional baseball expert” would sound not only clueless, but pretty irritating to them as well. And, I’m even more certain that his thread would stir other people’s pots on here, given their own particular situations. He certainly wouldn’t sound so smart then because, as we all know, that WB player and that WB team were indeed NOT garbage! They simply had a bad night/bad game versus another team. Fact is… that happens! Now, I don’t claim to be an “expert,” but in my opinion, that’s exactly what happened last night.

Also…“Stark Honesty” would be to say that YESTERDAY, SPECIFICALLY, OS looked bad… to say that they are as horrible a baseball team as the football team is good (OS Football = Best in the entire State; so, OS Baseball = Worst in this area)… that’s not honesty, that’s irresponsible garbage and sounds like Limbaugh-opinionated radio talk to me.

I know some may consider this to be a “prejudicial rant”, but this is a statement of the FACTS as I know them and is for informative purposes only … and contains my thoughts & opinions, to which everyone is entitled!

Tiger59, a couple of comments responding to your posting.

1. Agree that there is no reason to start a separate thread regarding any game in the Southeastern District. A thread is started for each week so that information on games played during that week can be consolidated.

2. Sorry if my “chuckle” offended you. My “chuckle” was not because of who was the subject of the thread nor because of any particular comment being made. It could have been comments about Western Branch and I still would have chuckled if posted by Sportsattorney. The chuckle was because I (correctly) knew the nature of the comments would generate a lot of firey responses and I guessed that Sportsattorney, being new to the forum, would have no idea of the reaction it would engender. I suspected that Sportsattorney, who is surveying the local talent for possible pro level ability, might not be as sensitive to the feelings of parents, including those of a coach’s parent. You will have to admit that folks on this forum tend to like the information relayed to be sugar-coated, only telling the positives and not the negatives, even if the negatives are based in fact. An unreal world.

3. If you will research older threads, you will see that I have made positive comments about the progress brought to the OS baseball program by the new coach, your son. In fact, given how closely OS has played WB in a couple of recent games, I was surprised to hear of yesterday’s results.

4. If the “facts” you relay about the OS program are “facts” (dictionary def: something known to be true), then the progress of the program is making great strides. Your nonfactual (i.e., false) statement re some of the Western Branch / Indian River game played on April 16, 2010 (the year WB went to the state semi-finals) does cause me to question how accurately you relay “facts.” Yes, it is a fact that the score was 10-0, largely due to the complete game very effectively pitched for Indian River by Dean Ali and in part due to fielding difficulties of WB. It just wasn’t WB’s day - IR even turned a freakish triple play. However, c’mon. By your moniker it appears that you may have watched high school baseball in the area for a number of years. Do you REALLY think that Coach Wright would leave a pitcher on the mound to give up 3 home runs? I watched most, and I believe all, WB games during the seasons of 2008-2011 and NEVER saw a single pitcher give up 3 homeruns and it did not happen that day as you falsely stated. Thompson pitched 3 innings, gave up 1 homerun, a 2-run homerun; Cassidy pitched 2 innings and gave up 1 home run, a 3-run homerun; Bradshaw gave up a solo homerun in the 6th inning. NO pitcher gave up three homeruns, nor did any single pitcher give up 10 runs. And whether a pitcher gave up a homerun is not subjective, it is a fact. I truly hope the “facts” you relayed about OS are more accurate than the “facts” you relayed re the April 10, 2010 WB / Indian River game.

quote:

Originally posted by WB Reporter:
Tiger59, a couple of comments responding to your posting.

1. Agree that there is no reason to start a separate thread regarding any game in the Southeastern District. A thread is started for each week so that information on games played during that week can be consolidated.

2. Sorry if my “chuckle” offended you. My “chuckle” was not because of who was the subject of the thread nor because of any particular comment being made. It could have been comments about Western Branch and I still would have chuckled if posted by Sportsattorney. The chuckle was because I (correctly) knew the nature of the comments would generate a lot of firey responses and I guessed that Sportsattorney, being new to the forum, would have no idea of the reaction it would engender. I suspected that Sportsattorney, who is surveying the local talent for possible pro level ability, might not be as sensitive to the feelings of parents, including those of a coach’s parent. You will have to admit that folks on this forum tend to like the information relayed to be sugar-coated, only telling the positives and not the negatives, even if the negatives are based in fact. An unreal world.

3. If you will research older threads, you will see that I have made positive comments about the progress brought to the OS baseball program by the new coach, your son. In fact, given how closely OS has played WB in a couple of recent games, I was surprised to hear of yesterday’s results.

4. If the “facts” you relay about the OS program are “facts” (dictionary def: something known to be true), then the progress of the program is making great strides. Your nonfactual (i.e., false) statement re some of the Western Branch / Indian River game played on April 16, 2010 (the year WB went to the state semi-finals) does cause me to question how accurately you relay “facts.” Yes, it is a fact that the score was 10-0, largely due to the complete game very effectively pitched for Indian River by Dean Ali and in part due to fielding difficulties of WB. It just wasn’t WB’s day - IR even turned a freakish triple play. However, c’mon. By your moniker it appears that you may have watched high school baseball in the area for a number of years. Do you REALLY think that Coach Wright would leave a pitcher on the mound to give up 3 home runs? I watched most, and I believe all, WB games during the seasons of 2008-2011 and NEVER saw a single pitcher give up 3 homeruns and it did not happen that day as you falsely stated. Thompson pitched 3 innings, gave up 1 homerun, a 2-run homerun; Cassidy pitched 2 innings and gave up 1 home run, a 3-run homerun; Bradshaw gave up a solo homerun in the 6th inning. NO pitcher gave up three homeruns, nor did any single pitcher give up 10 runs. And whether a pitcher gave up a homerun is not subjective, it is a fact. I truly hope the “facts” you relayed about OS are more accurate than the “facts” you relayed re the April 10, 2010 WB / Indian River game.

In response, I'm sorry your "pot was stirred" by my post, it was NOT intended at all. I have amended my post to reflect "THE FACTS OF THE GAME" and that your son was NOT singly responsible for the 3 home runs (FACT) that occurred in the game he started. But, my credibility was right on regarding that: 3 HR's occurred in the game & that WB lost to IR by a score of 10-0! MY POINT, that seems to have been misunderstood by you is, as I stated, that 2010 WB team WASN'T GARBAGE in any sense of the word ... it was 1 BAD game by a very good WB team (2010 EASTERN REGIONAL CHAMPS) against IR and it would be completely irresponsible for ANYONE to publically bash them for having 1 bad game! I don't appreciate "sugar-coated" comments either BUT there is no need for derogatory, unflattering, offensive BROAD statements that are totally irresponsible & immature being made about, or directed toward, teenaged-kids ... inclusively classifying them as being TRASH/GARBAGE due to observations of a single bad game. Any team does it at some point in time! I really would not have "chuckled" about these comments directed toward WB against OS if the circumstances were switched!!! The offended party has the right to express their displeasure with unreasonable comments. It is my opinion that totally unwarranted defamation of the character of young baseball players or teams should never, ever be tolarated! Commentary should be worded such as not to be inflammatory.
By the way, check my comments about last night's game which weren't posted earlier.

Tiger,

You still miss my point on the chuckle and I guess there is nothing I can post to make you comprehend. I was not chuckling at the actual content of the comments; I was chuckling at the response it was going to engender and how unsuspecting the poster was going to be as to the responses that were going to ensue.

And yes, if you follow comments I have made on here before, my pot is stirred by false statements involving anything baseball (rules - baseball or NCAA, objective plays - such as homeruns, strikeouts, number of players on a roster from Virginia (when all one has to do is count), etc., whether it involves my son or not. I happen to like the truth and find it idiotic when folks post blatantly false statements. I do research the facts before I post and spend more time than I probably should to make sure the "facts" I post are true. I did not expect you to change your post. That hides the fact that you did not do your research before making a statement.

I also reread the initial posting which has stirred folks here. Unless I missed it, I don't see the word GARBAGE or TRASH. The only person who introduced those terms into this thread was you.

I guess people on this board don't appreciate humor and wit and just want the "facts". The fact is that OS is a football school plain and simple. There is no shame in that. When was the last time WB won a state championship in football? That would be um...never! OS has won 2 in the last 5 years I believe. And I love them for that. Some of the best athletes in the state come out of the 757. Embrace who you are, and be realistic about who you are not. But don't you ever question my maturity and integrity! Now that I have all the "facts," I will post revised observations about the game that can make everyone feel warm and fuzzy inside. Later, we can all hold hands and sing Kumbaya.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by thesportsattorney:
I guess people on this board don't appreciate humor and wit and just want the "facts"...

What you originally posted was devoid of humor or wit, but again...move on already to the next team, un-bunch your lawyer briefs already.

This thread is done.