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quote:
Originally posted by gamedayrocks:
I'm going to take all this advice with me to the field. We have our first scrimmage in 30 minutes. I haven't spoken to J. since our discussion last night as I went to bed in tears and his dad drove him to school this morning.

In reading back over this discussion, I think my goodness - what drama! When did I become that parent I saw and couldn't stand when my husband coached little league? Actually, I sound more like one of those T-Ball parents who's expecting little Johnny to impress the League Director his first time "at tee."

Wish us luck...it's sunny but COLD here - and we're a 2A scrimmaging a 4A.

Thanks, again, I appreciate everyone's input! I'll let you know how things progress.


We tend to view the journey with our sons as a personal one, we do a lot of planning and spend money, so "we" often times is used, but I agree, this should be about what he wants to do, not what "we" want to do, with your help and guidance of course.
When son was a freshman we began getting invites to camps, showcases, to play on good travel teams in tournaments, but mine wasn't really interested, he said he had plenty of time. So we threw out the timeline and let him do what he wanted.
Without getting into details of what he did and didn't do, he managed to play D1 ball and get drafted, so it's not so much where you begin but where you end up.
Follow his lead, it's normal for young HS players to feel this way, either way things will work out, he just may need some time off right now. And if he decides to end it, that is something that you will have to accept.
Good luck.
quote:
Originally posted by gamedayrocks:
I'm going to take all this advice with me to the field. We have our first scrimmage in 30 minutes. I haven't spoken to J. since our discussion last night as I went to bed in tears and his dad drove him to school this morning.

In reading back over this discussion, I think my goodness - what drama! When did I become that parent I saw and couldn't stand when my husband coached little league? Actually, I sound more like one of those T-Ball parents who's expecting little Johnny to impress the League Director his first time "at tee."

Wish us luck...it's sunny but COLD here - and we're a 2A scrimmaging a 4A.

Thanks, again, I appreciate everyone's input! I'll let you know how things progress.


gamedayrocks: Don't be so hard on yourself. From your original post, it was pretty obvious to me that it isn't that you want your son to become a college ball player...it is that you want him to achieve all that he can. That is what we all want for our children. We've been there done that with regard to being in the middle of pushing and letting go. At one point our son told us he wished we had pushed him harder as a freshman to get better grades. ???? If we had, he would have been equally upset with us. He was getting A's and B's so we didn't feel the need to address it. Nowadays when he seems less than motivated to reach a goal of his, we gently remind him that he's writing his own story and he needs to take into consideration how he'll feel looking back ten years from now, knowing that he could have done more.

It's a fine line between pushing a kid to achieve a dream and helping him to avoid future regrets. Especially if you have some regrets yourself.
Last edited by sandlotmom
My son was only a part-time player on a 15 year old travel team. That fall, he tried out and made the same organization's 16 year old team. He decided that he did not want to invest so much time into it because he was also playing basketball and football in high school.

He instead signed up and played on the park district team. He was clearly the best player on the team and he had fun having a bigger role. He was their main pitcher and hit third in the order. For the next two years (17 and 18), he played on the local American Legion team, which wasn't very good but he kept playing. In high school, he sat on the bench his junior year and started his senior year.

He started as a freshman on his juco team and made all conference and is greatly looking forward to the coming season. Over the summer, he played on a collegiate team that won their region's World Series. Currently, he has received five D2 scholarship offers and the best part is that they are all asking him to be a two way player.

I guess the point I am making is when my son was 16, he stepped back and made baseball fun again. Right now, at the age of 20, I've never seen enjoy baseball as much as he does right now. That includes all of the practicing, weight lifting and conditioning. It used to be drudgery to him, but not anymore.
quote:
Originally posted by Brickhouse:
My son was only a part-time player on a 15 year old travel team. That fall, he tried out and made the same organization's 16 year old team. He decided that he did not want to invest so much time into it because he was also playing basketball and football in high school.

He instead signed up and played on the park district team. He was clearly the best player on the team and he had fun having a bigger role. He was their main pitcher and hit third in the order. For the next two years (17 and 18), he played on the local American Legion team, which wasn't very good but he kept playing. In high school, he sat on the bench his junior year and started his senior year.

He started as a freshman on his juco team and made all conference and is greatly looking forward to the coming season. Over the summer, he played on a collegiate team that won their region's World Series. Currently, he has received five D2 scholarship offers and the best part is that they are all asking him to be a two way player.

I guess the point I am making is when my son was 16, he stepped back and made baseball fun again. Right now, at the age of 20, I've never seen enjoy baseball as much as he does right now. That includes all of the practicing, weight lifting and conditioning. It used to be drudgery to him, but not anymore.

No doubt in my mind that that was the best post in this thread. I frankly don't see how any amount of pushing could have achieved a better outcome.
Gameday,

With a 6-1 birthday, has he played down gradewise? If so he was probably mostly playing down with most of the team being a grade lower hence part of the dominance. Now that he is in high school he finally has to play with his classmates the majority of whom played a year older so now he is not the big dog anymore. Could this be part of the issue?
gamedayrocks -

We're another family that has been in your shoes and understand your concern. You've received some very good advice. I'll just add that the "do you still love it" was the baseball question my husband and I constantly asked our son after the age of 12. The game gets tougher as they grow and it hits kids especially hard who's baseball talent came "easy" at an early age. Others around them are now catching up, school gets tougher, baseball is now more of a job, and distractions (girls Roll Eyes) are many. My advice is to focus on the "are you having fun" in regard to baseball and are the grades good! Kids change their mind a lot at this age. So, I suggest you back off a bit on pressure to decide now about his future in baseball. Just keep checking in with him often on how he's enjoying (or not) playing and let it be fun for now. There is no downside to waiting to see where he's passions lie. Baseball is a game of passion and the player really needs to love it a lot to counter the work involved and the sacrifices they will make to be successful at the next level.

Welcome to the HSBBW! Smile
Gameday,
I'm kind of an oldtimer in age and I have in common with you the fact that my boys play and played for a 2A school in TX also with the oldest even having the same name as yours but none of thats really relevent to what you are asking about. Kids just have a hard time making "life" decisions at 14.
My youngest sounds just like yours and now that he is 16 he has decided he wants to try to play college ball after all. He too has heard the horror stories from his college-ball playing older brother and sometimes at 14 it is scary. 14 year olds are afraid of failure and sometimes ease off when faced with unforeseen difficulty. At about 16 they start realizing the worth of a challenge and look at things a little differently. Please don't follow a rigid timeline as all cases aren't the same.
You have a good outlook and are willing to listen, just relax and enjoy the ride. I know I had some things I learned with the older son and it's not life and death to me anymore because I finally realized it's their life not mine!
You watch, things will work out. Good to hear from another small town TX member.
One thing I notice is the different approaches by different parents. Makes sense since all kids and parents are different. I was a hands on parent. I used the "we" approach because "we" were both involved in his baseball. He was the player and I was the support person. He wanted to quit a number of times. Most of the time it was when the challenges seemed unconquerable to HIM. I stepped in and explained how things really were and "asked" him to reevaluate and to give it another shot. If it didn't workout for him he knew he would still have my support. I felt it was in his best interest to continue baseball and he did continue each time (maybe because of me). I feel sure if I had not discussed these challenges with him he wouldn't have played high school or college ball. To me the line between "helping" your kids achieve something and "forcing" to do something is miles apart. HELP is good ----
gamedayrocks

Please do not interpret this as advice. It isnt meant to be.

Instead - it is just my personal opinion.

I cannot imagine ever having to push either of my sons to play a game - any game. Baseball - football - whatever - all just games.

I will push them to get good grades - and be decent and honest human beings. But I never pushed them to play any game.

Its a game.

Either you love it - or you dont. And no amount of pushing in the world will change that.

Again - just my opinion.
Originally posted by Three Bagger:
quote:
14 year olds are afraid of failure and sometimes ease off when faced with unforeseen difficulty. At about 16 they start realizing the worth of a challenge and look at things a little differently. Please don't follow a rigid timeline as all cases aren't the same.


I think you're right. He's beginning to realize he's growing up and the "unforeseen" is scary. The timeline is great - I'm certainly NOT saying anything negative about it - but maybe it's not HIS timeline...

Thanks Three Bagger, and great to hear from you too!
Gamedayrocks,

You've gotten many great perspectives here. I just wanted to add that we have five children - a son (21) playing Division 1 baseball, a daughter (19) playing Division 1 softball, a son (16) who is a Division 1 baseball recruit and a son (12) who is playing competitive travel baseball. Our other son plays the guitar, loves to read and attacks his homework as aggressively as the others attack fast balls down the middle. We love him and encourage him as much as the other four. You guys will figure it out. Good luck.
Maybe he is not ready for it to be a grind? Maybe he is not ready to start worrying about timelines , recruiting , showcaseing , etc etc? Maybe he is moving into a new phase in his life and he wants to experience some other things? Maybe he is feeling pressure or has felt pressure to do certain things and he just wants to be a hs student and play some ball without all the extras?

I would back off and just let him be a 14 year old kid. Let him find his own way right now. Let it just be a game right now. As he gets older and he sees the end of the hs years approaching if he wants to move on in the game he will figure it all out. Every kid is not wired the same. If you back off and let him sort things out he will. And if he is a good kid who is doing good in school your very lucky. He will be fine. Some kids are just not ready to start preparing for college baseball when they are 14 years old. Let him enjoy hs and hs baseball without all the other stuff loaded on his back. JMHO
quote:
Originally posted by Mark B:
Gameday,

With a 6-1 birthday, has he played down gradewise? If so he was probably mostly playing down with most of the team being a grade lower hence part of the dominance. Now that he is in high school he finally has to play with his classmates the majority of whom played a year older so now he is not the big dog anymore. Could this be part of the issue?


He only played his age division one year. The rest of the time he's played up because of his size. HOWEVER, just because he's bigger doesn't mean his matured. He's still a 14 year old, and all that implies.

But, his performance really isn't the issue. He's still playing well, his interest just isn't there. I don't want to use the word "burnout", but maybe that's what it is...
Just FYI: The scrimmage went well. We weren't keeping books, of course, but our pitching looked good and we had very few errors. Our batting was a little better than average. We have a lot of freshmen, some of whom have never played organized ball.. We scored in the lower 20's, however very few were earned runs. They scored 1, but in their defense they have a new coach and have lost several seniors.

...and brother was it was COLD!!!!!!
quote:
Originally posted by gamedayrocks:
Originally posted by Three Bagger:
quote:
14 year olds are afraid of failure and sometimes ease off when faced with unforeseen difficulty. At about 16 they start realizing the worth of a challenge and look at things a little differently. Please don't follow a rigid timeline as all cases aren't the same.


I think you're right. He's beginning to realize he's growing up and the "unforeseen" is scary. The timeline is great - I'm certainly NOT saying anything negative about it - but maybe it's not HIS timeline...

Thanks Three Bagger, and great to hear from you too!


I agree, the timeline is only a suggestion, not many may be ready, especially at 14.
What he's heard is right, college baseball, no matter what division is TOUGH. But IMO, he really doesn't have to think about that right now.
quote:
Originally posted by Coach_May:
Maybe he is not ready for it to be a grind? Maybe he is not ready to start worrying about timelines , recruiting , showcaseing , etc etc? Maybe he is moving into a new phase in his life and he wants to experience some other things? Maybe he is feeling pressure or has felt pressure to do certain things and he just wants to be a hs student and play some ball without all the extras?

I would back off and just let him be a 14 year old kid. Let him find his own way right now. Let it just be a game right now. As he gets older and he sees the end of the hs years approaching if he wants to move on in the game he will figure it all out. Every kid is not wired the same. If you back off and let him sort things out he will. And if he is a good kid who is doing good in school your very lucky. He will be fine. Some kids are just not ready to start preparing for college baseball when they are 14 years old. Let him enjoy hs and hs baseball without all the other stuff loaded on his back. JMHO


This rings true.
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:

When son was a freshman we began getting invites to camps, showcases, to play on good travel teams in tournaments, but mine wasn't really interested, he said he had plenty of time. So we threw out the timeline and let him do what he wanted.
Without getting into details of what he did and didn't do, he managed to play D1 ball and get drafted, so it's not so much where you begin but where you end up.
Follow his lead, it's normal for young HS players to feel this way, either way things will work out, he just may need some time off right now. And if he decides to end it, that is something that you will have to accept.
Good luck.


It's good to hear from folks who have been there - and back. You obviously made the right decision. J. doesn't want to quit the hs team, he just wants time off from the summer thing. He pitched well tonight and you could tell he enjoyed it. He was fist bumping the other players on the field, smiling between batters, etc. I think I was just pushing too hard for the freshman year summer thing. Too much, too hard - a little overwhelming. OVERWHELMED - I think that's exactly where he is!!!
Gameday - I'm not an oldtimer but I have three sons that play baseball. You've received some great advise. I'll share a little from my personal experience that might be helpful.

You and your spouse know your kid better than anyone. Like clockwork, each of my kids, at age 14, began to question how much they wanted to put into baseball. Hormones and everything else about being 14 was a part of how they were looking at it. For two of them we felt it was more the anxiety of suddenly competing against kids 3 and 4 years older.

We supported each one differently. For one, we made him go to a tryout for an elite team. He complained and complained but on Saturday morning he had on his uniform before I even got out of bed. He continued to complained on the drive there that we 'made him go to the tryouts'. We knew he just needed a push. He is now playing D1 ball and he will tell now that he is glad we pushed him. He really enjoyed playing with those elite teams.

My middle son was different. Nothing about his daily routine indicated he wanted to work at baseball much, and we had no indications it was anxiety. So, we let him drop back on the intensity.

My youngest son is just a few years away from that phase. We pushed a little because we felt he just needed a little help getting over the nervousness and anxiety of try-outs. Up until 14 he never had to go to a real try-out. Coaches were always lining up to get him on their team. So, we put him in a few try-out/showcase situations and he quickly got over that phase once he saw how much fun it could be to play with a group of kids as good or better than he was.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do. Supporting your son doesn't always mean that you let them make the decision.
gamedayrocks,

You seem to be a lot like many other parents who care deeply about their children. Only you appear to be much smarter and have a much better attitude than most.

It's kind of neat following this thread and seeing the way you have responded to some good suggestions from others. My guess is that you will find your own answers. In the meantime I think you have earned the respect of those around here.

Best of luck to you and your family. Your son is very lucky to have a mom like you!
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
gamedayrocks,

You seem to be a lot like many other parents who care deeply about their children. Only you appear to be much smarter and have a much better attitude than most.

It's kind of neat following this thread and seeing the way you have responded to some good suggestions from others. My guess is that you will find your own answers. In the meantime I think you have earned the respect of those around here.

Best of luck to you and your family. Your son is very lucky to have a mom like you!


Wow. Thank you so much, that means a lot to me! - I doubt my parenting skills OFTEN. But I do have faith...
quote:
Originally posted by Prime9:
The hardest thing a loving, baseball parent will ever have to do .. is what you NEED to do here! Be there to support him, make sure he understands both sides of this consideration ....... then tell him" that it's his decision and you will support him either way!"


Listen to Prime9 and many of the others...

I know that he has plenty of time to "be seen". Being seen does not matter if he doesn't want to be.

We have a 2011 that has always had talent where he never really had to work at it...over the course of the last year, he decided where his ultimate goal was and got QUITE serious about achieving it. He has already started getting the recognition and I'm sure he'll have a place somewhere...that's the journey over the next year or so...

We have a 14 year old (8th grade) too and he has as much or more talent as his older brother...He also had the fall season from h***...coaches played favorites and basically only cared about kids who's future was at a specific HS.

Same team with a number of player changes (for the better) and new coaches, but he's still not enjoying it and told us he wants to quit to try another sport. We discussed and he kept working inside during the winter, but a week or two ago, he told us he wants to quit to try another sport this spring. We supported his decision - definitely wasn't easy for us, but HE e-mailed the coach about his decision and thanked him for the opportunity. Coach sent him back a wonderful e-mail welcoming him back to any team he coached in the future.

Both my wife and I are hopeful that he'll decide to go back into baseball before his freshman year, but it is HIS path and not ours...Our job is to help and guide him, but not to decide...

The way I look at it, I want him to be successful in his life - I may want him to be a pro baseball or football player, a doctor or a lawyer or a "whatever", but that really doesn't matter if it isn't what he wants. He MIGHT be successful doing it, but would he be happy? The reality is it doesn't matter (within reason) what he does as long as he finds what works for him...
I AM an old-timer! But, I will NOT weigh in!
Not unless your scale stops at 225?

Seriously, you have gotten some fantastic advice!

First of all, is it possible that he has been playing for YOUR approval?
Maybe he needs to play for HIS approval?

He's at an age where he wants to be somebody! On his own!
He's also going through some stage of puberty and his brain is mush! Confused I'll bet he sleeps more lately, too!

My 2 boys both started showing a lot more independence at about the same age. Mom and Dad were the "establishment" as we used to call it in the 60's.
Anything that is the Parents idea must be a control thing?

He needs to see the benefit for HIM!

Help him find it!

If that doesn't happen, let him find the thing that WILL benefit him and his goals.

Find out who he really admires. Who is his role-model?

He is lucky to have 2 caring parents.

Trust me, it will work out.

Regarding timelines: Don't worry about it. There is no timeline that's right for every kid!
Last edited by gitnby
quote:
gamedayrocks,

You seem to be a lot like many other parents who care deeply about their children. Only you appear to be much smarter and have a much better attitude than most.

It's kind of neat following this thread and seeing the way you have responded to some good suggestions from others. My guess is that you will find your own answers. In the meantime I think you have earned the respect of those around here.





I have said it once and I am saying it again, you come on here and ask for advice, you listen and you dont defend yourself all the time.Your willing to look at the situation and see how YOU might improve it.As I said to you once before I like your posts.

You sound like a mom, just like me and others.It is hard when you see potential,its normal for us moms to want our sons to be the best they can be.

But the comment about D1 being hard is true.It is a lot of work.My son is a soph. in his first year at a 4 year school playing baseball.It is not an exaggeration.You have to love it.

I remember Coach may saying you better love it on a thread one time.It is true. Let him have his space this summer.We just did local tourneys on the weekends after frosh year.Dont push the whole showcase stuff yet.Absolutely not neccessary. Good luck your doing great.

If you ever need to cry send me a PM.
Everyone is different in the way they parent and every players is different in the way they respond to parenting so there is no cookie cutter approach to this.
I was faced with the same situation as you (more than once).Here's OUR situation and the way he and I "worked this out":

My son was a KID and I was an ADULT -- to me that alone established much of the ground rules we played under. Understand too that as he matured over the years things did change from him being a kid as he grew into a man.

He was a very good baseball player and enjoyed the game but as challenges increased with the advent of a higher level of play there was a hesitation on his part to accept those challenges. The old fight or flight biological response to challenges affects us all. This primarily factored in during his 8-13 age span. I had to reassure him that he was more than capable of holding his own as he moved up in competition. I was his confidence builder and explained the rewards if he accepted the new challenge. He fit in at all levels and his confidence grew as a baseball player. Those "confidence concerned" he had waned about the time he established himself as a good high school player....BUT... As he became a teenager, options surfaced that didn't "mix" real well with his competitive baseball. Football, cars, girls, job, active social life all require a lot of time --- and most require money. I supported those things financially that I felt were in his best interest and resisted supporting those things that weren't. Wink
I come from the school that if you give your children a free line and an adequate "allowance" they will quickly run out of line and money going in the wrong direction.
Anyway it all worked out for my son with a very rewarding college baseball experience, a few years bouncing around coast to coast playing pro ball, graduating from college and getting married. Yes, there were times we disagreed over the years but could always find common ground. Today he thanks me for my support and guidance during those uncertain times. Two major things that motivated me to do what I did.
#1. I saw it as my responsibility as a parent.
#2. I knew it was in his best interest.
Fungo
I forgot that I had responded earlier to this post ---- sorry, comes with being a real OLD timer. Big Grin
Last edited by Fungo
Fungo,
Great post. We've followed your son's career since we first started reading about him in high school. Sounds like he has had the best of both worlds. It's probably every little leaguer's(that spelling doesn't look right) dream to play pro ball as your son did.
Our son's HS career is just about finished. He is set to continue playing in college so I've really been reading posts like yours with an eye to get all the insight I can into how to best encourage him without making it all about what we want and being sure to keep it all about him. Thanks for helping.
quote:
Originally posted by Fungo:
The old fight or flight biological response to challenges affects us all...#1. I saw it as my responsibility as a parent.
#2. I knew it was in his best interest.
Fungo


Fungo,

That's hitting the nail on the head! "Fight or flight," - a decision we all have to make many times throughout life. I hope that we as parents handle this well enough that J. comes away with a presidence (sp?) for handling these "F or F" situations in the future!

Thank you!
quote:


I have said it once and I am saying it again, you come on here and ask for advice, you listen and you dont defend yourself all the time.Your willing to look at the situation and see how YOU might improve it.As I said to you once before I like your posts.

If you ever need to cry send me a PM.


The advice on this site is pretty much priceless. Anyone with any desire to learn more about the game and the process of being successful in the game should appreciate this website. I'm just thankful I discovered it!

Thanks for the PM offer - I may take you up on that!!
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
gamedayrocks,

You seem to be a lot like many other parents who care deeply about their children. Only you appear to be much smarter and have a much better attitude than most.

It's kind of neat following this thread and seeing the way you have responded to some good suggestions from others. My guess is that you will find your own answers. In the meantime I think you have earned the respect of those around here.

Best of luck to you and your family. Your son is very lucky to have a mom like you!


I agree with PG. IMO, it's refreshing to have a parent come here with a dilemma and not get into their players skill level, or how the parent thinks their player is deserving of opportunities because of what they did previously to HS, or stats as a LL player, etc. It's not too often that parents will admit that they are pushing too many buttons too quickly either and they have to take a step back. Anyway, you get the picture.

Every kid needs motivation, every kid needs a push, but the important thing is to realize when to do that and when to step back. That's the key.

There is nothing wrong with a player entering HS and just interested, for that moment, of what is directly in front of him, not what he should or should not do 6 months from now or two years from now. Like someone suggested, you know your son better than anyone and let that be your guide as to handle the situation, as he grows and matures you might even find things that motivate him that you might not think will. If some of you knew my player in HS, you would think that the last thing he cared about was his bb future, though all the while he carried that dream to himself and found his own motivation as he grew up.
Enjoy the upcoming HS baseball season, that most important, before you know it, it will be over. Everything will fall into place, you'll see, he's young, he doesn't HAVE to do all those things until he wants to. Smile
...just an update

Thanks to all the advice I've received on this forum, I have SINCERELY made an effort to change my outlook and approach with son. We had a "sit down" and I told him I was sorry if I'd been pushing too hard and that I was going to back off and let him enjoy his freshman year and that when HE is ready to press on to the next level, I'd be there to help in any way I could.

I've not been attending practices like I used to. I've not been questioning him after every bullpen session. I've not been offering my "suggestions" about improving his swing. This is VERY DIFFICULT for me, but I have honestly had to let go!

And it's AMAZING what is happening! Last night Coach called and said son had made varsity as a pitcher. In a previous discussion with Coach, Dad and I had expressed our very humble opinion that for son to be on JV and maybe get a little more time on the mound might be just the thing he needs. However, Coach's decision is final and the fact that he has the team's best interest at heart, not just one player, is something to be expected. But he did tell us last night that son will play both ways. For instance, his first game he will suit on on JV, play, then change and suit up for varsity.

Coach says son is working hard, looks at ease on the mound and has a great attitude. All that, and I didn't have to say or do A THING! Except change my "nagging" habits.

Lessoned learned, gentlemen. You were right - again.
quote:
Lessoned learned, gentlemen. You were right - again.


Just wanted to make the point that I believe I may have learned from you, in the way you have so graciously and humbly addressed this situation. That we "old dogs" can learn new tricks, we don't always do what is right, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, we should all learn how to admit when we may have mishandled something and say " I was wrong."


Your are a very in-tune MOM!
Last edited by Prime9

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