Order a scout today, be there tomorrow???

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

BrianTRC posted:

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

"... rather, professionals who held a voice in the acquisition of talent for MLB clubs for decades."

Sounds like former scouts.

Sounds like the feedback you get from the guy you take lessons from or what showcases have evolved into. Some might be useful but generally rose colored stuff all in the name of marketing. 

Are you charging for your services?  Unless your charging a huge fee I can't see a profit model here.  You will need to sit around for a couple of hours to see a kid bat 3 or 4 times.  Say you charge $500 a game.  I would want you there the entire game to see every at bat and every play.  Which means you will be putting 3 hours in for my kid.  I would also not want you looking at or providing evals for other kids while I was paying you.  What if my kid does not get a significant amount of playing time while you are there, would you be willing to come to a 2nd game.  In essence you are making about $150 an hour.

I think a better model would be to charge a couple of hundred a kid for a very small showcase type camp.  Say 10 kids at $200 run through a showcase type camp with a full eval afterwards that includes a sit down with the kid and parents to throughly go through the eval.  You could probably run through 10 kids in the morning, take a break and run through another 10 kids in the afternoon.  In an 8 hour day you can see 20 kids, bringing in $4000 in revenue netting you $500 an hour.

BrianTRC posted:

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

Yes, professional scouts who held a voice with a club (or clubs) for years and years. I won't comment on the value or experience of other services.

joes87 posted:

Are you charging for your services?  Unless your charging a huge fee I can't see a profit model here.  You will need to sit around for a couple of hours to see a kid bat 3 or 4 times.  Say you charge $500 a game.  I would want you there the entire game to see every at bat and every play.  Which means you will be putting 3 hours in for my kid.  I would also not want you looking at or providing evals for other kids while I was paying you.  What if my kid does not get a significant amount of playing time while you are there, would you be willing to come to a 2nd game.  In essence you are making about $150 an hour.

I think a better model would be to charge a couple of hundred a kid for a very small showcase type camp.  Say 10 kids at $200 run through a showcase type camp with a full eval afterwards that includes a sit down with the kid and parents to throughly go through the eval.  You could probably run through 10 kids in the morning, take a break and run through another 10 kids in the afternoon.  In an 8 hour day you can see 20 kids, bringing in $4000 in revenue netting you $500 an hour.

Third-party services and, yes, charging for the service. When you consider prospects are spending thousands per year, this may/should eliminate many of those costs. And, yes, one-on-one follows only who pick your child up from BP (if held) all the way through the last game until your child leaves the park.

Showcase camps limit scouting observations. What velo a player throws from a bullpen mound isn't as important as how he attacks hitters in a game; or a POP time from a coach on an empty field isn't as valuable as what his POP time is during a game; or how fast a player runs a 60 in a combine isn't as important as how fast they get of the box and cross first in a game; all as examples.

Real scouts, during real games = real evaluations = best development plans available.

Thoughts?

FFXfireman posted:

BrianTRC posted:

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

"... rather, professionals who held a voice in the acquisition of talent for MLB clubs for decades."

Sounds like former scouts.

Yes sir. The industry isn't using them so...

4seamer posted:

BrianTRC posted:

You're saying pro scouts who are affiliated with MLB teams? Not scouting services like PG or PBR? A parent could pay a pro scout to come watch their son on-demand? 

Yes, professional scouts who held a voice with a club (or clubs) for years and years. I won't comment on the value or experience of other services.

I think this is just another service for the uneducated parent willing to spend $$$$$ to have someone tell them their kid is a prospect. What will they do after an 0-4 day?....oh he had a rough day can you come back again? Yes, for $$$$$

Does someone really need to pay a scout if they're good enough to be scouted by professionals? 

Also, pro scouts often have a lack of understanding of certain college levels. They can identify pro talent, but what about the kid who is not a pro prospect and isn't sure where he fits at the college level. Can they tell you the type of school you could potentially fit at? 

Personally I don't see the market being people who aren't sure if their kid is a pro prospect. The market is a clueless parent who really thinks their kid has a chance then they're not even in the same ballpark. 

> I think this is just another service for the uneducated parent willing to spend $$$$$ to have someone tell them their kid is a prospect. What will they do after an 0-4 day?....oh he had a rough day can you come back again? Yes, for $$$$$

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Scouts don't evaluate stats... they evaluate tools. Tools either exist or they don't. 

> Also, pro scouts often have a lack of understanding of certain college levels. They can identify pro talent, but what about the kid who is not a pro prospect and isn't sure where he fits at the college level. Can they tell you the type of school you could potentially fit at? 

That simply isn't true. Professional scouts understand the talent required for every and any college level. And your evaluation would help guide you in that process.

> Personally I don't see the market being people who aren't sure if their kid is a pro prospect. The market is a clueless parent who really thinks their kid has a chance then they're not even in the same ballpark. 

The market is for ANY parent wanting an objective analysis of their child's potential.

I personally would not be interested, but  I'm sure you can find some parent that will enjoy paying for someone to tell their son he's the next Bryce Harper!

So, if the "former scout" determines the boy isn't going pro, I guess the parents pack it up - no more lessons, no showcases, and no baseball? Or, if the "former scout" determines the boy has pro potential, the parents decide to up his commitment? As another poster noted, evaluating pro potential and college potential may not overlap. Is the "former scout" also a former RC or college HC? And, why isn't the "former scout" also teaching? 

As to the point that observing the entire "game" a kid brings is better then the showcase velo, the game time pop, or running out an actual ball, that's nice - AND exactly what a scout does before a player is drafted. No scout who remains employed long uses pure showcase numbers in determining if a kid is drafted. Showcases can put a kid on the radar; but a single look in that format doesn't get a kid drafted. My S was drafted out of a very small non-baseball HS as a smallish LHP; scouts attended EVERY home and away game his senior season (he did no showcases and only played scout ball as travel); they watched whatever scouts watch to define his heart, head (I have no clue what they look for), and game. My point is, even a late round throw away pick was seen in depth.

Perhaps you are simply offering a business plan in which a former pro scout (which is not part of the developmental personnel employed by each organization) draws up a long term written plan for the kid based upon repeated in depth views at actual games. To me an expensive and uncertain approach - for example, will the scout be familiar with the unique physiology each player has (fast arm, short arm, stiff hips, super loose, etc) and of which the kid's PC's are aware; or will the written report be generic (like a horoscope or most camp evaluations).

I used the money to get S a personal coach who did the exact same thing ("evaluate") AND teach AND mentor, AND who used his contacts to various colleges, AND who alerted local scouts AND who coached the local scout team.  And, for less than the idea presented here on a per diem basis. Since in my area there are several such people, I don't see the demand in San Diego.

I guess if a family has unlimited money, why not waste a bit - playing on fear, worry, paranoia, and insecurity can actually bottom a business plan.

4seamer posted:

> I think this is just another service for the uneducated parent willing to spend $$$$$ to have someone tell them their kid is a prospect. What will they do after an 0-4 day?....oh he had a rough day can you come back again? Yes, for $$$$$

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Scouts don't evaluate stats... they evaluate tools. Tools either exist or they don't. 

> Also, pro scouts often have a lack of understanding of certain college levels. They can identify pro talent, but what about the kid who is not a pro prospect and isn't sure where he fits at the college level. Can they tell you the type of school you could potentially fit at? 

That simply isn't true. Professional scouts understand the talent required for every and any college level. And your evaluation would help guide you in that process.

> Personally I don't see the market being people who aren't sure if their kid is a pro prospect. The market is a clueless parent who really thinks their kid has a chance then they're not even in the same ballpark. 

The market is for ANY parent wanting an objective analysis of their child's potential.

The stat line is my point exactly.  Scout will see what he needs in an 0-4 day or a 4-4 day, but parents won't understand that, or accept that.  

I disagree with the pro scouts understanding college levels.  Same way college coaches don't always understand pro levels.  If you have access to pro scouts who know the ins and outs of the college levels, then you have an excellent and superior resource.  

I love the idea of an objective third party analysis from someone with no agenda as far as where the player ends up at the next level.  Love it enough that it's what I do for a living. 

Attend a PG showcase!

4seamer posted:

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Hire+independent=oxymoron

I mean really, as soon as monies are exchanged independence goes out the window.

Mr and Miss Smith, your son lacks physical stature, isn't athletic, has no real skills, and no chance of playing ball past 8th grade. That will be $600. Yeah people will line up for that.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

4seamer posted:

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Hire+independent=oxymoron

I mean really, as soon as monies are exchanged independence goes out the window.

Mr and Miss Smith, your son lacks physical stature, isn't athletic, has no real skills, and no chance of playing ball past 8th grade. That will be $600. Yeah people will line up for that.

Any professional scout will be happy to give anyone an independent evaluation. Also pro scouts have relationships with college coaches and can identify for their program. College coaches have scouts everywhere evaluating players for them.

TPM posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

4seamer posted:

IMO, you shouldn't hire a pro scout to determine if your child is a 'prospect' because they aren't. Yet. Instead, you hire a professional scout to give you an INDEPENDENT evaluation of your child's tools and the feedback on what it will take to make it to the child's ultimate goal.

Hire+independent=oxymoron

I mean really, as soon as monies are exchanged independence goes out the window.

Mr and Miss Smith, your son lacks physical stature, isn't athletic, has no real skills, and no chance of playing ball past 8th grade. That will be $600. Yeah people will line up for that.

Any professional scout will be happy to give anyone an independent evaluation. Also pro scouts have relationships with college coaches and can identify for their program. College coaches have scouts everywhere evaluating players for them.

I highly doubt this guy's target market is the college player pool. He's probably looking to evaluate high school age and younger, the sweet spot for parents who want to get their kid to the next level. I don't know about the impact it would have on a player getting recruited, because as I am learning most college coaches want to see the kid themselves. Sure, recommendations are great, but the kid is still going to have to Showcase, play high profile tournaments etc to get in front of the coaches they are interested in. OP stated families are paying thousands doing this, which is true, but I don't see his service eliminating the need to still go to these events.

So you are sayin that someone here in Florida is doing this?  If thats the case, attend a camp at UF, FSU, UM for excellent evaluations, not to mention instruction. Thats all a young player needs to learn what it takes to play at the highest levels of college ball, as many of those players possess pro talent as well.

Or they can go get an evaluation at the Baseball Ranch in Lakeland. That guy is awesome.

This is Florida where scouts attend many games looking for the next Bryce Harper! 

BTW, you do actually understand how very, very hard it is to get drafted and play at the highest level.

TPM posted:

So you are sayin that someone here in Florida is doing this?  If thats the case, attend a camp at UF, FSU, UM for excellent evaluations, not to mention instruction. Thats all a young player needs to learn what it takes to play at the highest levels of college ball, as many of those players possess pro talent as well.

Or they can go get an evaluation at the Baseball Ranch in Lakeland. That guy is awesome.

This is Florida where scouts attend many games looking for the next Bryce Harper! 

BTW, you do actually understand how very, very hard it is to get drafted and play at the highest level.

Who are you talking to, TPM? I think everyone on this board knows.