Other 2020s getting screwed?

Yes, may kids are losing out. Time to make the inevitable "adjustment" by looking at other levels...Maybe a JUCO that feeds into that D-1, making sure credit hours transfer. Best of luck!

When the NCAA made the ruling to grant another year of eligibility to spring sport athletes there was a lot of discussion about the potential for this to happen. Look in the threads about NCAA giving another year....  Paula is right about the need to change your plan and she is also right that JuCo is the most sensible option for continuing to play baseball (given the circumstances). Just do your homework and pick the right one. 

I guess I'm not feeling quite as willing to roll over as that. The school essentially restricted my son from looking at other schools, pursuing other options for 9 months (longer if you count the verbal commitment), and now they are telling him to break his own contract because they actually can't legally break it. That seems like fraud to me or at least restraint of trade. Student athletes should have some recourse in situations like this, but the school and NCAA has all the power. It's bullshit.

@Jam24 posted:

I guess I'm not feeling quite as willing to roll over as that. The school essentially restricted my son from looking at other schools, pursuing other options for 9 months (longer if you count the verbal commitment), and now they are telling him to break his own contract because they actually can't legally break it. That seems like fraud to me or at least restraint of trade. Student athletes should have some recourse in situations like this, but the school and NCAA has all the power. It's bullshit.

No doubt about that! As Absorber has advocated on this site, you have the right to hold your ground and force the school to honor their agreement. But if you do that your son will most likely be outcast and won’t be a part of the baseball program in any way. So it comes down to a decision about continuing baseball or not. If the decision is made to continue playing that means finding a new school. About the only way you can fight back is to make known the name of the school. Bad publicity isn’t good for any college baseball program and karma is a bitch. It will catch up with them eventually. 

Exactly - it's a lose/lose situation for him. Before making the school public, I'm trying to understand if this is a widespread issue or if other schools have managed some way around this. If 50% of D1 schools are doing this, it's a little bit different than if they are the only one who is dealing with the problem this particular way. I hear that it is widespread but I don't see anyone else talking about it, so it makes me think other programs have found a way to keep seniors/juniors and honor the NLIs of freshmen. I don't see how that is economically feasible but I'm curious to know more before I vilify the school directly.

It is happening to some extent a lot of places. But this is the first I have heard of it happening to 7 kids in one recruiting class. Although it doesn’t surprise me. I know it doesn’t seem like it right now but from a baseball perspective things could actually turn out better - especially if your son is a position player. It’s really not a good situation to be the next to last guy on the roster. 

Some Jucos are holding scholarships back in anticipation of what you are talking about. It wasn’t hard to see this coming. I would suggest that you get in touch with any Jucos that showed interest during the recruiting process and see where they stand. It’s going to be next to impossible to find another 4 year school that’s not in the same situation as the school that’s asking you to leave. 

It hasn't happened at our school, or at least it hasn't happened yet. 7 from one class is pretty surprising, I would expect one or two guys getting a good chunk of money. 

As for your son - what was the conversation? Was it a we don't have the money conversation or was it a we don't think you'll get playing time situation? If it was a we can't afford it conversation then you could try your luck and stay, especially if it's at a P5 where that money is locked up for four years. But if it's a mid major or lower tiered D1 where it's renewed annually I'd say he's SOL. 

Staying is a gamble, but if it was made clear that this was a financial issue and not an ability issue that is the only time I would suggest possibly going that route. The other reason you may want to consider that is because it is so late in the game and with rosters already downsizing it's unlikely he'd be able to find another D1 home. Juco is always an option but there are reasons why that may not work for some families. 

I know of two families this happened to in the past. One was a P who had a shaky freshman year in a P5. He was on a large scholarship and they sat him down and told him he wouldn't play. They had a hunch it was about the money. He said thanks, but the school is too cheap, this is why I chose _______,  I'm going to stay and fight for playing time. He stayed and was drafted as a weekend starter a few years later. Another player was cut to free up money a few days later. 

In the other situation, the player was told he'd never play at that school and they recommended a transfer. He wore shorts and a t-shirt the rest of his career while he charted pitches and held the radar gun during their super regional run. 

It's really up to your son. It's BS but you have to be able to read the room and gauge the coaches. If he calls and says I want to stay - do they say ok great are you sure or do they get loud and start telling him off? I don't think this was as much on the NCAA as it was on the MLBPA who agreed to an 80% shortened draft. 

Jam24,

What has happened to your son is morally and ethically wrong, but it happens quite often. It's because, IMO some coaches don't belong being coaches.

The coach should have had this figured out back in March. Most have a program that helps coaches manage their budget.  He knew what could have been the scenario.  How he handled this situation probably is a warning and maybe a sign that your son should move on. What I am wondering is why any coach would give a senior who graduated or just had a few credits to take, any money. 

And I agree that these guys should be called out. I always believed the opposite, but when you see things from the other side you know it's wrong.  Before your son decides to move on, you could contact the AD.

I see that you are from the Seattle area. I am going to assume that your son was headed to either one of the D1 programs. SMH

What's wild is that the returning seniors do not count against the 11.7 and aren't required to receive any money. Unless the HC planned to have 5 or 6 guys drafted in rounds 6-40 this really should not have been an issue. 

I'd expose once your son finds a new home. There are a lot of people who come on here looking for answers about programs, I think putting that information out there is extremely helpful. Especially when it isn't a talent issue. If you can't play there you can't play there. But if there is 7 players worth of inability to budget properly that reflects poorly on a program. 

Does it benefit you - not likely. Would it be nice to see somebody else avoid the same situation - probably. 

@TPM posted:

I see that you are from the Seattle area. I am going to assume that your son was headed to either one of the D1 programs. SMH

There are 4 D1 programs in Washington state. Over the years I have heard a lot of negative comments about one of them in particular. 

@PABaseball posted:

What's wild is that the returning seniors do not count against the 11.7 and aren't required to receive any money. Unless the HC planned to have 5 or 6 guys drafted in rounds 6-40 this really should not have been an issue. 

I'd expose once your son finds a new home. There are a lot of people who come on here looking for answers about programs, I think putting that information out there is extremely helpful. Especially when it isn't a talent issue. If you can't play there you can't play there. But if there is 7 players worth of inability to budget properly that reflects poorly on a program. 

Does it benefit you - not likely. Would it be nice to see somebody else avoid the same situation - probably. 

Good post. Unlimited roster next year and 11.7 for 32.  Poor planning.

I'm sorry that your son is in this situation. The ripple effects of the rushed NCAA decision and smaller draft are so infuriating. Several of my son's friends (incoming 2020 players) have been "asked" to de-commit from D1 schools and encouraged to go to JuCo for a year and try again as transfers... unfortunately, the JuCos in our area will likely scrap athletics for the upcoming year so they are then left with literally no in-state options :-( It seems the NLI is not worth the paper it's printed on...

Thanks for all the responses. I agree that the school should have seen this coming in March and at least put out a warning. @PABaseball - I didn't realize the seniors don't count against the 11.7. So how does that work? They keep their money but there is stil 11.7 to go around to the remaining 4 years of kids? If so, this really is a draft issue, and it also means they totally over-subscribed their class and saw this coming a mile away.

Also - @TPM it's not a Washington school, but we have heard the same about one of them.

That's is so terrible to hear. I completely agree that this is an unethical move on the part of the school. I wish your son best of luck and hope for a good outcome. 

Sorry about your situation, that sucks. My 2020 goes to a weaker D1. This hasn't happened there. The coach told the incoming class on a Zoom call a few weeks back that the roster will likely be 37 this year though.

@BBMomAZ posted:

I'm sorry that your son is in this situation. The ripple effects of the rushed NCAA decision and smaller draft are so infuriating. Several of my son's friends (incoming 2020 players) have been "asked" to de-commit from D1 schools and encouraged to go to JuCo for a year and try again as transfers... unfortunately, the JuCos in our area will likely scrap athletics for the upcoming year so they are then left with literally no in-state options :-( It seems the NLI is not worth the paper it's printed on...

Any contract is only as strong as the least committed party. 

Someone help me out. I am under the impression that ANY money given out counts against the 32. Originally the seniors didn't count against the 35 man roster but not there is no roster limit? 

@adbono posted:

No doubt about that! As Absorber has advocated on this site, you have the right to hold your ground and force the school to honor their agreement. But if you do that your son will most likely be outcast and won’t be a part of the baseball program in any way. So it comes down to a decision about continuing baseball or not. If the decision is made to continue playing that means finding a new school. About the only way you can fight back is to make known the name of the school. Bad publicity isn’t good for any college baseball program and karma is a bitch. It will catch up with them eventually. 

It can also create “bad publicity “ for your student athlete, if you make a big stink. Be careful. 

@RoadRunner - that is a part of the frustration. The student athlete literally has no voice. The school, the NCAA, the whole system has the power, but if no one calls out these institutions they can keep harming kids and getting away with it. they pretend to be concerned about kids' well being and they certainly demand that kids act with character and integrity, but they - on the other hand - are allowed to be immoral and unethical without consequence.

@TPM posted:

Someone help me out. I am under the impression that ANY money given out counts against the 32. Originally the seniors didn't count against the 35 man roster but not there is no roster limit? 

I imagine it depends on where the money comes from whether it counts or not. TCU has a wealthy alumni base and they put up enough money to cover seniors that wanted to return. Gotta believe that doesn’t count. 

@RoadRunner posted:

It can also create “bad publicity “ for your student athlete, if you make a big stink. Be careful. 

That is a valid point. It’s a fine line to walk. I have not been happy for years about how the program is being run at my alma mater. I will comment in detail privately, but not publicly, as long as I have a kid still playing - and he isn’t even in the same state! 

@adbono posted:

I imagine it depends on where the money comes from whether it counts or not. TCU has a wealthy alumni base and they put up enough money to cover seniors that wanted to return. Gotta believe that doesn’t count. 

PAbaseball stated seniors don't count against the 11.7.  Not counting other funds, they do count against the 11.7?  

@TPM posted:

PAbaseball stated seniors don't count against the 11.7.  Not counting other funds, they do count against the 11.7?  

PAbaseball is correct that 2020 carina seniors that return in 2021 don’t count against the 11.7 

But if a school wants to give $ to a 2020 carona senior that returns in 2021 the $ has to come from somewhere. Very few schools have alumni that will foot the bill. 

Seniors are counted in the 11.7 and minimum 25% lifted and no roster limit. This allowed coaches to be creative, but could possibly be that the school is not fully funded or just now found out his budget was slashed. 

Jam,

Sorry to hear about this situation.  It sounds awful what that school is doing. Given that you have only 1 year of personal funds available, and given that your son is not an MLB-caliber player (an assumption I am making based on how the coach is treating him), and given that he is unlikely to play anywhere else this coming year based on the timing and all that is going on, if it were me...I'd have a talk with my son about the 40 year plan and putting a focus on going to college to finish a degree and stretching the money as far as it would go.  I would take the money in the NLI.  I don't see a downside in doing this.   The coach has already inflicted maximum pain, what else can he do to hurt him?  Either way, he's on his own baseball-wise with regards to finding a future position somewhere.

@TPM posted:

Seniors are counted in the 11.7 and minimum 25% lifted and no roster limit. This allowed coaches to be creative, but could possibly be that the school is not fully funded or just now found out his budget was slashed. 

Quoted my own post. The seniors are NOT counted. 

@Smitty28 posted:

Jam,

Sorry to hear about this situation.  It sounds awful what that school is doing. Given that you have only 1 year of personal funds available, and given that your son is not an MLB-caliber player (an assumption I am making based on how the coach is treating him), and given that he is unlikely to play anywhere else this coming year based on the timing and all that is going on, if it were me...I'd have a talk with my son about the 40 year plan and putting a focus on going to college to finish a degree and stretching the money as far as it would go.  I would take the money in the NLI.  I don't see a downside in doing this.   The coach has already inflicted maximum pain, what else can he do to hurt him?  Either way, he's on his own baseball-wise with regards to finding a future position somewhere.

Good points. Take the money, use it for school.

@TPM posted:

Quoted my own post. The seniors are NOT counted. 

 

Correct. I hate my phone 

@Smitty28 posted:

Jam,

Sorry to hear about this situation.  It sounds awful what that school is doing. Given that you have only 1 year of personal funds available, and given that your son is not an MLB-caliber player (an assumption I am making based on how the coach is treating him), and given that he is unlikely to play anywhere else this coming year based on the timing and all that is going on, if it were me...I'd have a talk with my son about the 40 year plan and putting a focus on going to college to finish a degree and stretching the money as far as it would go.  I would take the money in the NLI.  I don't see a downside in doing this.   The coach has already inflicted maximum pain, what else can he do to hurt him?  Either way, he's on his own baseball-wise with regards to finding a future position somewhere.

I, too, really like this post, Smitty, except for the fact that Jam included this in his initial description of the situation...

"... but he's not really interested in going to the school without baseball."

For some, baseball (or another sport) is the driving motivation that helps them either get through college or get to the point where they realize the importance of a college education and develop other forms of motivation, better study habits, discipline, life skills, etc.

@cabbagedad posted:

I, too, really like this post, Smitty, except for the fact that Jam included this in his initial description of the situation...

"... but he's not really interested in going to the school without baseball."

For some, baseball (or another sport) is the driving motivation that helps them either get through college or get to the point where they realize the importance of a college education and develop other forms of motivation, better study habits, discipline, life skills, etc.

Fair point.  Unfortunately baseball is not in the cards for this coming year no matter what path he takes.  So perhaps the mindset is hit the weight room, hit the cages, workout and train as best he can on his own and look for a home in 2022, all the while taking the NLI money and getting a school year under his belt.  It seems like a better option than walking away and going home.

@cabbagedad posted:

I, too, really like this post, Smitty, except for the fact that Jam included this in his initial description of the situation...

"... but he's not really interested in going to the school without baseball."

For some, baseball (or another sport) is the driving motivation that helps them either get through college or get to the point where they realize the importance of a college education and develop other forms of motivation, better study habits, discipline, life skills, etc.

I just want to clarify that he is not interested in going to THIS school without baseball. That's one thing they always tell you in recruiting is make sure you want to attend the school even if you don't play the sport. Well, he didn't follow that directive. He would prefer a more academic school, but it just didn't play out that way. As a parent, I would have preferred probably a D3 option and now maybe he'll think more about that. It is a chance, as @Smitty28 said, to revisit the long term view and focus on academics. I actually think that would be much easier if he had gotten to have a senior season. The idea that baseball is now just over is hard to take ( I know a lot of high school seniors have had to grapple with that).

My advice would be look for a new situation and calmly explain the situation. Don’t blame anyone. There are going to be plenty of players in the same situation. Any new coach your son has this conversation will understand. 

One option is to discuss with the current coach the chance of returning the following  year if attending a JuCo thus coming year. But keep in mind how the coach responds isn’t binding. And there will be an additional recruiting class to compete against next year, 

When your son looks back he may consider the coach gave him a break. Does he really want to be player #35-40 on the roster? He probably wouldn’t get much of a shot to win playing time and transfer anyway. Go where you’re loved.

Good point Smitty and thanks for clarifaction, Jam.  Way different.  That said, depending on major and other factors, maybe baseball isn't just over.  Maybe, just delayed a year.  His may very well turn out to be a case of blessing in disguise in the long run.

Just know that if he is redshirted there is no difference.  He can use facilities but cannot work out with the team so convince him he is redshirting if he doesn't find a spot.  There are still schools looking for players at lower levels for 2020.  Even with all this stuff, if he is good he can find a place to play this year.  There are lower level juco schools that are still taking players for this year that have money, especially for great grades.

@Jam24 posted:

 He would prefer a more academic school, but it just didn't play out that way. As a parent, I would have preferred probably a D3 option and now maybe he'll think more about that. It is a chance, as @Smitty28 said, to revisit the long term view and focus on academics.

This brings up a point I have wondered about a bit.

My son plays at a HA D3 here on the left coast.  I know that a LOT of his teammates are at least considering taking the fall off, especially if classes are not conducted in person.  I believe at least a couple will actually do it.  I have also heard that this discussion is happening at similar schools in the east, and I have heard that it's not just among athletes.

So what happens if such a school loses part of its student body for an indefinite period?  Do they take all students back on the student's schedule? Do they reopen first year and transfer applications?  Do they start reaching out to rejected applicants?  I have not heard anything about this from the admin side, but I'm thinking that a student like your son should consider reaching out to coaches at HA schools of interest to see if they might have some unexpected slots opening up.

@PitchingFan posted:

Just know that if he is redshirted there is no difference.  He can use facilities but cannot work out with the team so convince him he is redshirting if he doesn't find a spot.  There are still schools looking for players at lower levels for 2020.  Even with all this stuff, if he is good he can find a place to play this year.  There are lower level juco schools that are still taking players for this year that have money, especially for great grades.

Redshirts practice with the team. They do everything but dress for home games and travel to away games