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Overthrow...one base or two

B bbknut10+ posts
runner on 1st, batter puts ball in play, hit hard to 1st baseman. Fielder knocks ball down with solid play to his left, but bobbles ball and tosses to a late covering pitcher who misses the ball (E3). Runner previously on 1st heads for 3rd, pitcher picks up ball and throws (into the dugout), whereby the runner approaching 3rd is awarded home. Runner having achieved 1st on error, makes no attempt to go to 2nd, is awarded 2nd.

Now, I always understood that an outfield throw into the dugout yields one base to the runner and an infield throw into dugout yields 2 bases///

help please
Baseball was made for kids, and grown-ups only screw it up.
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MU Mr Umpire100+ posts
First, whether the throw comes from the outfield or is the second throw by an infielder, it is a 2 base award from TOT. Also, I don't have my material with me, but I believe it is also TOT if BR has already reached 1B before the first throw. First throw from an infielder is 2 bases from TOP if the throw is before BR reaches 1B.

Now, did BR touch 1B before the throw by F1? If he did and F3's throw was the first throw, then BR gets 3B. If he hasn't touched 1B before TOT, then he gets 2B. On this play, R1 gets HP no matter what.

This is for OBR. But, I believe NCAA and FED are the same.
Last edited by Mr Umpire
FM Former Member
Correct Mr. Umpire but it can get confusing for some in reading your response. Assuming that some on here are not caught up in all the lingo let me say it this way.

The pitcher became a fielder when he left contact with the rubber. So His throw would be the 2nd throw. The first being the toss from the 1st baseman. so at that point you use TOT = Time of throw.

So when the pitcher F1 releases the ball TOT awards would be based on where the runners were at the release. It does not matter where they where when the ball left the playing field.

Now if the pitcher was to far away to make a play at 1st so he went ahead and threw to 3rd and hitter did not reach 1st base when he released the 2nd throw, the batter/runner just goes to 2nd. If the batter runner has already thouched 1st base before the pitcher releases the throw it will not matter if he attemped 2nd or not he is awarded two bases from the time of throw. In this case that would be third.
FU Forest Ump100+ posts
Gentlemen....just to clarify what has been stated above. The amount of throws are not what's counted, it is the number of plays. 1st play by an infielder is a time of pitch (TOP) award. 2nd play by an infielder or 1st play by an outfielder is time of throw (TOT) award. Now you might be wondering how this makes a difference. Here's one example.

R1 takes off on the pitch. Ball hit to F6 who tries to make a play on R1 at second. That's the 1st play. R1 is safe at second. F6 throws to F3 but throws the ball into the stands. That's the 2nd play. B/R is not at 1st when F6 releases the ball. The B/R gets 2nd, two bases from TOT, R1 gets home because he had acquired 2nd at the TOT. There is only one throw in this example but the award is TOT. That's why we count plays.

Now if F6 doesn’t try and get R1 and just fires it to F3 and the ball goes into DBT, then that's the 1st play. The award is TOP. R1 would get 3rd and the B/R gets 2nd.

Clear as mud isn't it.
Last edited by Forest Ump
MU Mr Umpire100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Forest Ump:
Gentlemen....just to clarify what has been stated above. The amount of throws are not what's counted, it is the number of plays. 1st play by an infielder is a time of pitch (TOP) award. 2nd play by an infielder or 1st play by an outfielder is time of throw (TOT) award. Now you might be wondering how this makes a difference. Here's one example.

R1 takes off on the pitch. Ball hit to F6 who tries to make a play on R1 at second. That's the 1st play. R1 is safe at second. F6 throws to F3 but throws the ball into the stands. That's the 2nd play. B/R is not at 1st when F6 releases the ball. The B/R gets 2nd, two bases from TOT, R1 gets home because he had acquired 2nd at the TOT. There is only one throw in this example but the award is TOT. That's why we count plays.

Now if F6 doesn’t try and get R1 and just fires it to F3 and the ball goes into DBT, then that's the 1st play. The award is TOP. R1 would get 3rd and the B/R gets 2nd.

Clear as mud isn't it.


Correct. I forgot the exact wording was "play" and this is usually seen when the plays are throws. But, it is the number of plays and not throws.

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