Pardon me while I rant / vent

"Being negative is easy. Being destructive is easy and neither one accomplishes anything worthwhile. "

Very true.  

I wish coaches would realize this.  

You are absolutely correct.

The classic line I heard from a parent was at a 14u travel soccer game. Keep in mind the dad never played soccer. The coach played in college.

"I don't care what the coach said. Do what I tell you to do."

The coach heard him. He yanked the kid forplaying out of position defensively.

I had to suffer with this dad for three years (two kids) of high school baseball. He also thought he was a great baseball coach. He never coached past 11/12 rec ball.

coach2709 wrote... "Since when do parents think they have ANY business near the dugout, bench area or anywhere near the team / coaches area before, during or after a competition?????"  

Looks like the coach/team/school has lost control.  Once one parent sees another do it, they will. Curious if it is expressed to the players/players parents before the season or what other steps are taken to "train" the parents to stay away from the players pre/during/post game.  Or is it just assumed?  Culture is hard to instill.  

I'm a dad, not a coach.  My son avoids me like I'm homeless as soon as we pull into the parking lot.  (unless he wants money for something)  That "training" was by his select coaches, starting at about 12.  It was done some directly to the parents, but mostly through the kids.

By the wordcount of your post, you're pissed!

I think the coach needs to control his dugout area but I highly doubt that is the root problem. Parents don't need to be there, shouldn't be welcome and certainly not allowed. The message obviously needs to be done the right way so you get positive results. Most of the post, while I pretty much agree with it completely, indicates lack of organizational structure, unclear expectations and failure to correct a small problem before it becomes a big problem.

This is obviously an uninformed opinion based off one mans comments but a mandatory meeting with players and parents setting clear lines of unacceptable behavior may go along way to helping restore structure. Keep in mind it may get worse before it gets better but it will never get better if you don't create some kind of a systematic change...for what it is worth!!

One of the best lines on this topic was in a local newspaper as a legendary coach retired after something like 30+ years coaching one of the best HS teams in our area in CA - Gary Cunningham, Bellarmine Prep...

Asked, 'Do you plan to attend games after your retirement?'

Answered, 'Why yes, I think I'm going to sit right up there in the stands where I understand the very best coaches sit!' 

What's the first line of the love story theme?  "Where do I begin..."  Lol. Like most coaches who coach first then stop coaching due to having children to raise I have been on both sides of this fence.  I was married to sports/coaching in my 20's and early 30's.  Didn't have my first til 34. So that's a lot of years coaching without really understanding parents and parenting.  For the years after parenting I would always invite parents to hang around the dugout if they wished.  Join us for the post game.  Come to the gym and observe practice.  Sit behind the bench for games.  I am a true believer that I should not say anything to their kids I don't want them to hear. Also I would like to think I do have some knowledge to give.  Perhaps some parents will learn something.  Maybe next time their kid goes here when they were supposed to go there the parent will know from observing practice.  I have coached kids of coaches and always have talked with them to see if there was something I could learn. Same with kids of former pros.  It's an exchange.  This is not the CIA.  And in reality when you are open and inviting most parents stay away!

When my kid was 9 I expected the coach to be open and inviting....at High School level I expect the coach to know my kids name but not mine.  He isn't MY coach, it isn't MY team, and I don't understand the parents who think they have a bigger role in all this other than to drive the car and write the checks, but I think I am in the minority. 

I've mentioned this many times on here, I am not a HS coach.  My wife is an administrator in the school district my kid currently attends.  She has held many administrative positions over the years. A few years back she was the AP at the JrHS my son attended.  Kinda a bummer for him, but he worked through it.  

Anyway, her first year there we were at my sons football game (he played for the JrH).  First game of the season, a parent walks out onto the field and starts coaching the kids.  Moving them around into the gaps and telling them how to run their defense.  It was easy to tell that this was a parent as the team and coaches were on the other side of the field.  I looked at my wife with disbelief.  She walked over to the coaches to talk to them.  Something she normally would never do during a game.  Comes back over to our side walks right up to the father and asks to speak to him off to the side.  The father responds with, "after I get them setup for this play".  My wife, not one to mince words, looks at the father and explains to him, "if you don't remove yourself from the field right now, I will have you removed from the premises and place a trespass warning against you".  Needless to say the father was not happy.  

My wife take him off to the side and explains to him, in no uncertain terms, that this was not his team and if he wished to coach he was free to work with one of the local youth programs that runs football programs up through the 8th grade (for the parents that think JrHS football is not good enough for their kids).  She also explained that if we intruded onto the field again she would have him removed from the premises.  Lets just say he was not happy.  He storms off muttering something along the lines of women not understanding sports and using the "you don't know who I am line".

Wife shows up to school the next day, the principal (started half-way through the previous year) asks her about the game as she has a vm on her phone number from an angry parent.  Wife goes on to explain the story to her.  The principal calls up the parent and asks for a meeting.  Parent thinks he was hot sh$! because he coached a youth team that he claims "was associated with the High School".  No such thing, they used the HS mascot as their mascot and paid to use the HS fields for their games, other then that they had no contact with the HS program.  Parent shows up thinking they he was going to get his way.  Principal explains same thing my wife did to him.  Of course the parent escalates it up to the board office.  Who again explains things to the parent again.  

Now at this point you would think the parent would get the fact that he is not allowed on the field nor is he allowed to coach the kids.  So what does he do, the next game he attempts to have his sons (2 on the team) come over to him between plays to get instructions.  Of course they are embarrassed as all heck by his behavior.  As he stands on the sidelines trying to get their attention my wife has her Resource officer onsite watching the game.  Of course the parent attempts to take a few steps onto the field.  Officer, who was in plain clothes, walks up to the parent and asks to speak to him off to the side.  Of course the parent has some choice words for the officer before he can identify himself to the parent.  Conversation moves off to the side.  Fairly one-sided conversation with the officer doing most the talking.  Father never went onto the field after that, but continued to yell instructions as loud as he could from the sidelines every game.  Really cheesed off some parents who would say stuff to him.

joes87 posted:

I've mentioned this many times on here, I am not a HS coach.  My wife is an administrator in the school district my kid currently attends.  She has held many administrative positions over the years. A few years back she was the AP at the JrHS my son attended.  Kinda a bummer for him, but he worked through it.  

Anyway, her first year there we were at my sons football game (he played for the JrH).  First game of the season, a parent walks out onto the field and starts coaching the kids.  Moving them around into the gaps and telling them how to run their defense.  It was easy to tell that this was a parent as the team and coaches were on the other side of the field.  I looked at my wife with disbelief.  She walked over to the coaches to talk to them.  Something she normally would never do during a game.  Comes back over to our side walks right up to the father and asks to speak to him off to the side.  The father responds with, "after I get them setup for this play".  My wife, not one to mince words, looks at the father and explains to him, "if you don't remove yourself from the field right now, I will have you removed from the premises and place a trespass warning against you".  Needless to say the father was not happy.  

My wife take him off to the side and explains to him, in no uncertain terms, that this was not his team and if he wished to coach he was free to work with one of the local youth programs that runs football programs up through the 8th grade (for the parents that think JrHS football is not good enough for their kids).  She also explained that if we intruded onto the field again she would have him removed from the premises.  Lets just say he was not happy.  He storms off muttering something along the lines of women not understanding sports and using the "you don't know who I am line".

Wife shows up to school the next day, the principal (started half-way through the previous year) asks her about the game as she has a vm on her phone number from an angry parent.  Wife goes on to explain the story to her.  The principal calls up the parent and asks for a meeting.  Parent thinks he was hot sh$! because he coached a youth team that he claims "was associated with the High School".  No such thing, they used the HS mascot as their mascot and paid to use the HS fields for their games, other then that they had no contact with the HS program.  Parent shows up thinking they he was going to get his way.  Principal explains same thing my wife did to him.  Of course the parent escalates it up to the board office.  Who again explains things to the parent again.  

Now at this point you would think the parent would get the fact that he is not allowed on the field nor is he allowed to coach the kids.  So what does he do, the next game he attempts to have his sons (2 on the team) come over to him between plays to get instructions.  Of course they are embarrassed as all heck by his behavior.  As he stands on the sidelines trying to get their attention my wife has her Resource officer onsite watching the game.  Of course the parent attempts to take a few steps onto the field.  Officer, who was in plain clothes, walks up to the parent and asks to speak to him off to the side.  Of course the parent has some choice words for the officer before he can identify himself to the parent.  Conversation moves off to the side.  Fairly one-sided conversation with the officer doing most the talking.  Father never went onto the field after that, but continued to yell instructions as loud as he could from the sidelines every game.  Really cheesed off some parents who would say stuff to him.

Let's be fair though this is the one off, really the one in a million off.  Could probably find some incredible horror stories about coaches and administrators also but that would be just as unfair to coaches as this example is to parents.  What this story proves is this one guy is an idiot. 

As I read through these posts, I have to admit, that I'm glad to hear that there are parents like this outside of our local community!  Someone should write a book or do a reality series.  Maybe it's already been  done?

2020dad posted:

joes87 posted:

I've mentioned this many times on here, I am not a HS coach.  My wife is an administrator in the school district my kid currently attends.  She has held many administrative positions over the years. A few years back she was the AP at the JrHS my son attended.  Kinda a bummer for him, but he worked through it.  

Anyway, her first year there we were at my sons football game (he played for the JrH).  First game of the season, a parent walks out onto the field and starts coaching the kids.  Moving them around into the gaps and telling them how to run their defense.  It was easy to tell that this was a parent as the team and coaches were on the other side of the field.  I looked at my wife with disbelief.  She walked over to the coaches to talk to them.  Something she normally would never do during a game.  Comes back over to our side walks right up to the father and asks to speak to him off to the side.  The father responds with, "after I get them setup for this play".  My wife, not one to mince words, looks at the father and explains to him, "if you don't remove yourself from the field right now, I will have you removed from the premises and place a trespass warning against you".  Needless to say the father was not happy.  

My wife take him off to the side and explains to him, in no uncertain terms, that this was not his team and if he wished to coach he was free to work with one of the local youth programs that runs football programs up through the 8th grade (for the parents that think JrHS football is not good enough for their kids).  She also explained that if we intruded onto the field again she would have him removed from the premises.  Lets just say he was not happy.  He storms off muttering something along the lines of women not understanding sports and using the "you don't know who I am line".

Wife shows up to school the next day, the principal (started half-way through the previous year) asks her about the game as she has a vm on her phone number from an angry parent.  Wife goes on to explain the story to her.  The principal calls up the parent and asks for a meeting.  Parent thinks he was hot sh$! because he coached a youth team that he claims "was associated with the High School".  No such thing, they used the HS mascot as their mascot and paid to use the HS fields for their games, other then that they had no contact with the HS program.  Parent shows up thinking they he was going to get his way.  Principal explains same thing my wife did to him.  Of course the parent escalates it up to the board office.  Who again explains things to the parent again.  

Now at this point you would think the parent would get the fact that he is not allowed on the field nor is he allowed to coach the kids.  So what does he do, the next game he attempts to have his sons (2 on the team) come over to him between plays to get instructions.  Of course they are embarrassed as all heck by his behavior.  As he stands on the sidelines trying to get their attention my wife has her Resource officer onsite watching the game.  Of course the parent attempts to take a few steps onto the field.  Officer, who was in plain clothes, walks up to the parent and asks to speak to him off to the side.  Of course the parent has some choice words for the officer before he can identify himself to the parent.  Conversation moves off to the side.  Fairly one-sided conversation with the officer doing most the talking.  Father never went onto the field after that, but continued to yell instructions as loud as he could from the sidelines every game.  Really cheesed off some parents who would say stuff to him.

Let's be fair though this is the one off, really the one in a million off.  Could probably find some incredible horror stories about coaches and administrators also but that would be just as unfair to coaches as this example is to parents.  What this story proves is this one guy is an idiot. 

Agreed, its an extreme case, but there are many many parents who attempt to coach from the sidelines.  Its especially prevalent at the JrH level in our area.  For two reasons.  First the parents are so close to the games at that level and secondly, as my wife says, "someone needs to teach the parents.  Thats what we do at the Jr. High level."

pabaseballdad posted:

As I read through these posts, I have to admit, that I'm glad to hear that there are parents like this outside of our local community!  Someone should write a book or do a reality series.  Maybe it's already been  done?

 

Friday night tykes?  Though a reality show about HS sports and its affect on the parents and community would probably make a compelling show.

CaCO3Girl posted:

When my kid was 9 I expected the coach to be open and inviting....at High School level I expect the coach to know my kids name but not mine.  He isn't MY coach, it isn't MY team, and I don't understand the parents who think they have a bigger role in all this other than to drive the car and write the checks, but I think I am in the minority. 

I was certainly expected to know the parents of my players. And they are an integral part of the school/athletic community. I bet we want people to come and support out teams both by being at games and contributing financially or by volunteering. This is not a one way street folks.  By the way I remember that parent on a freshman team long long ago. Thought his kid was going to get drafted someday. He was a part time player for us. In fairness we were a powerhouse program. Nice guy but just really had a high opinion of his son. Maybe just maybe as a father who worked with him way more than we did (we had 20 to worry about not one) he saw some things we didn't. That kid was drafted by the Dodgers out of college. And hooked me up with some nice seats last season as he now works in mlb. I am glad we were friendly and encouraging with both player and dad. I still think we made the right call platooning. We had a lot of good players to get in games. And to his credit he worked very hard to get better every year. The parent in Joes example clearly is an idiot. But on the other hand parents aren't always wrong and coaches aren't always right. 

Coach2709 -

As others have alluded to, I think it is a matter of setting expectations from the beginning with parents so these issues don't get out of hand.

I think in a way I was fortunate that my oldest played his last couple of years of travel ball for guys who were either current/retired high school and college coaches.  Those coaches set some pretty clear ground rules for the behavior of parents.  Anyone who didn't agree was free to find another team.  Some did when they realized that their influence on coach's decisions was coming to an end.

By the time my kid hit high school, I was not at all bothered by the coach telling parents at the pre-season meeting that unless there was some kind of critical issue, that his communication with parents would be to send out emails with schedules.  If you wanted to say anything other than "Hi Coach", then send it through your player.  He made it pretty clear that he would talk to the players about anything, but not the parents.

He also made it clear that coaching from the stands, yelling at umpires, or heaven forbid the other team or it's parents - was completely unacceptable.  I remember him sending a player out to the stands to tell his father the next time he complained about the strike zone that he was going to get kicked off the team.  I'm pretty sure he wasn't kidding.

On the flip side, I know of other coaches who allow parents to have a ridiculous amount of influence.  Oddly those always seem to be the teams with the loud obnoxious fans who argue every call.  Strange how that seems to go together.

Rob T posted:

By the time my kid hit high school, I was not at all bothered by the coach telling parents at the pre-season meeting that unless there was some kind of critical issue, that his communication with parents would be to send out emails with schedules.  If you wanted to say anything other than "Hi Coach", then send it through your player.  He made it pretty clear that he would talk to the players about anything, but not the parents.

This is common in my neck of the woods as well.

I think of it like this, my son works for this man, I do not.  If my son had a job would any of you find it appropriate for me to explain to my son's boss at McBurger Joint that his skills could be better utilized at the drive through window rather than mopping the floor?  Of course not!  So why do parents think it is okay to have these discussions with coaches?

CaCO3Girl posted:

If my son had a job would any of you find it appropriate for me to explain to my son's boss at McBurger Joint that his skills could be better utilized at the drive through window rather than mopping the floor?  Of course not!  

Ummmm...more parents may deem that acceptable than you imagine. Believe me.

One thing I have heard repeatedly from HS coaches is the lack of kids willingness to listen. They have been taught for years by some travel program, academy or private lessons. By the time they hit 10th grade where most programs start to get serious they have been trained so deeply into what they do they aren't receptive to changes...that problem isn't going to go away.

Think about it if your son is full time in a "real program that teaches" from the time he is 13 to 15 (I realize it could be earlier or later) and the amount of training time that includes. Below is what my son did with his regional team at 13 and 14, when they hit 15u it was freshman ball so they didn't do spring time.

Spring practice 2x per week for 10 weeks = 20 - tournament schedule - 5 or 6 weekends average 5 games a weekend - call it 25 games - so total 45 sessions.

Summer - 2x practice for 12 weeks = 24 - tournament schedule 8 weekends x 5 40 total = 64 sessions

Fall - 2x practice 8 weeks = 16 and 5 tournaments x 5 = 25

winter workouts 2x week x 10 weeks = 20

Total yearly organized baseball sessions = 154 roughly, truth nobody makes 100% but it was somewhere between 125 and 150 depending on the kid. Lets call it 135 for middle ground. Now multiply x2.75 year because the spring workouts don't existing for the u15 season and you get approx. 360 games and or training sessions with your travel organization.

How is a HS coach going to compete with that, or change the habits that have been ingrained? HS programs don't do anywhere near the volume of practices or games, they are working with a higher coach to player ratio then most travel programs, they may or may not be more qualified but generally speaking HSA school coaches are less and the big one generally speaking HS coaches are less connected to the college recruitment process....

I don't have a solution other then teaching your son how to listen, give respect and attempt to give the man what he is looking for as best as you can for the time you are together. When push comes to shove habits are not going to be broken for better or worse during a HS season and those same habits in question are going to be reinforced immediately when the HS season ends.

The only solution IMO is teach the boys how to be respectful and I hate to say it but kind of humor the HS coach until you are aren't there anymore.

Thoughts?

old_school posted:

 

The only solution IMO is teach the boys how to be respectful and I hate to say it but kind of humor the HS coach until you are aren't there anymore.

Thoughts?

Heaven forbid he might actually listen and try to apply some concepts and maybe learn something. Just recently it was determined that there is more than one way to accomplish things in the game of baseball, not just the way prescribed by the "select" (aka: paid) coach.