Parents Be Honest On This One??

Coach Merc

With us parents have no say in backing or not backing-- we have our standards and we expect players to abide by them--it is what it is--if they, the players, do not like it they can get off the bus--- there is only one driver on the vehicle

We look at it this way-- the parents are paying to have their son with us-- that tells me we are in charge of what happens==CASE CLOSED

My son has never "violated" any rules of any program he has been involved with. However, I promise you that he knew if he did, he knows the COACH would have my full support.

I have my job as a parent and that does include making sure my son (and daughter) understand and respect authority and the rules established by certain ones in authority.

Real life isn't "Everybody Loves Raymond" and mom can't run interference in their lives forever. (Nor would this mom want to!!!)

Coaches rule when it come to the players and how they represent their school. I guess there have to be some limits to the coaches authority but when it comes down to on field play, how the team looks and how they conduct themselves while in the hands of the coach, he rules.

I'm with TR here.

As long as everyone is aware of the rules and the repurcussions. What I don't like are rules that are made up as issues come up.

A hypothetical "for instance".

There is no written rule for facial hair. A kid starts to grow a little "chin thing", coach comes up and says "If you don't cut that off, you will not play". This is an example, you can put your own situation into it.

Where or how does a player/parent address this.

I agree with RZ. That's really about the only issue that we would ever object to. As long as a coach has been clear about the rules and the consequences, they won't get any argument from us. Coaches run into problems when 1) they "make up the rules as they go along" and 2) they are inconsistent about enforcing their rules - especially when violations involve a key player (would smack of favoritism).

Will try to give you an honest answer.

If a coach makes a rule that is reasonable and sticks to his rules, for everyone. I see no reason to not back him 100%. Coaches should make rules that are age or level appropriate. And after he gives the rules, consequences for breaking those should be explained.
I look at standards differently than actual rules. For instance there shouldn't be a rule against talking back to the coach, that I would assume is an expected standard behavior. If the rule is no rubber bracelets, then I expect my son not to have one on when he comes to the field. If the rule is no dip in your mouth on the field and you are caught, what is the consequence to follow. If you tell him to get rid of it and he continues play, what's the purpose of the rule to begin with?
Something that I saw during HS years, (travel and HS)some coaches have tendencies to change rules according to the players. Rules should be for everyone and the problems occur when this doesn't happen or the consequences of breaking those rules are not in black and white.

Unfortunately, our HS coach is one who sets rules but doesn't enforce them equally. You better believe it that all the players know it and he loses a lot of respect.
Our big issue is seniors missing practice for spring break cruises. Last season we had 9 seniors miss the two practices which fell during the spring break week. The policy is that if you miss practice, you miss just as many games. First game rolled around and 2 seniors started, 7 were on the bench. I would have preferred to see JV players pulled up than to see those two boys on the field. It just wasn't right and everyone knew it. There were a few seniors on the bench who didn't miss a thing. Lesser players, but players who followed the rules and should have been on the field.
As a parent, I support our coach. Even though he's made some mistakes (IMO), he's still the coach and we're trying to teach our son(s) that the rules are the rules. The consequences will be tougher at home is he chooses to break them.

We have also taught our son to respect his coaches and their decisions. As long as his decisions don't hurt any one physically, at which time we would expect our son to inform us of such activity. As far as we know, he has abided by these rules, even when it was not very popular with him, or us, for that matter.

For a truly honest answer I have to say I will support the coach as long as the coach is consistent.

If he requires laps for being late - and some kids never have to run laps when they are late - my support for the coach will dwindle.

Aparent

We do not use running as a punishment

All our kids run together whenever we run

All out kids stretch together laways

WE ARE A TEAM--first foremost and always-- we sink or swim as one unit

As long as the playing field is even for everyone, I would have no problem backing the coach. I think if a parent moves into help his child he doesn't respect the coach and the player will also not respect the coach. And yes, I make my 15 year old shave and keep his hair neatly groomed.

Coach Merc,

Players who understand how the game should be played follow the rules established by the coach as part of their make-up. As parents, we must establish an understanding with our children that when you join a team, you are obliged to follow the coach's direction on every matter. You have to show up on time always, make the phone call if you have to miss something scheduled (illness, etc.), and let a coach know well in advance if you have a scheduling conflict, etc. Be on time, work hard, respect your coaches, your teammates, your opponent and the officials every time you play.

So much of being a player and a parent revolves around common courtesy and respect for authority. They are lessons taught early in baseball that should carry through adulthood. If you love and respect baseball, then the coach is always right.

I think some HS coaches are caught in the middle between his rules and school board rules.

In sons HS, anything related to school (a school trip) automatically meant you were not subject to coaches rules on missed practice.
One player missed a few games because he had to go to NY to attend a wedding with family. The mother was out of control a few weeks later because mine missed a practice and a game due to a junior day visit. The school board allows for college visits as an excuse, weddings are not included. She opened her mouth my son got preferential treatment and was down right nasty to the coach. I think that if she had been explained the rule beforehand, there would have been no problem. I did actually think thecoach was at fault, for not stipulating what exceptions there were to his rule.

TPM

What if the student gets married on Jr Day??

Reasonable parents that believe in rules and discipline will back the coach. Coaches can set higher standards of conduct than the governing associations set. That is a good thing as long as the players and parents know them and the rules are enforced. That being said, how is it that coaches are challenged all the time by parents complaining that it doesn't apply to MY son? I recently read a post on another baseball site from a mother saying that it wasn't fair that the high school coach kicked her son off the team for smoking weed. She reasoned that it wasn't during the season and therefore didn't count.

TR

Running was just an example I pulled out of the air.

My point was that whatever form of repurcusions a coach gives should apply to all kids.

Ironically that in itselt helps build team unity.

BlueDevilDad

Therein lies the problem coaches face-- parents who are in total denial--smoking weed is illegal # 1 , in season or out of season--and who says the weed smoker isnt doing it during the season

Bluedevildad, that's where I was going.

Others, very good points.

TR, like you we never use our regular training as punishment. We also told the players that while we frown upon facial hair, and can't force ya to shave, we also don't have to play you.....LOL

We were on a trip 2 years ago when a player missed curfew, by missing curfew he also violated a rule that no player leaves the hotel without permission and without at least 2 other players or a coach. The boys father sat in the hotel parking lot and watched his son come in late. When we sat him he called me and told me I had too many rules when we actually had 3. Curfew, be with 2 players and no guests in the rooms. He took exception to this, was out right nasty. This was our #1 pitcher, who we skipped in his next start and then did not invite back during the fall. His fathers point was, he wasn't pitching the next day why should we care if he was late.

I belive my point was, he was OUR responsibilty when on the road (parents were at a different hotel) to insure the players safety, rules are a must.

Caoch Merc

Team premise-- you are a team--there are no distinctions

quote:

Originally posted by Coach Merc:
His fathers point was, he wasn't pitching the next day why should we care if he was late.

I belive my point was, he was OUR responsibilty when on the road (parents were at a different hotel) to insure the players safety, rules are a must.

What does the dad expect you (as a coach) to do? One set of rules for starting players and another set of rules for bench players? It doesn't work that way. The TEAM has rules and the players should abide by them, regardless of who they are.

Good question Merc,
during the HS years, it would'a been a pretty basic question and I would feel comfortable backing the adult authority

BUT

there are some other factors "I" would consider

in non school situations you have the ultimate "choice" on your situation -
that choice should land your player under the influence of a responsible adult
capable of establishing appropriate guidlines for his team and applying them -
I'd have no problem sharing parent responsibilities here



that said, it is NOT that way in HS

the HS coach is an employee & under direct control of board policies,
they have or NO discretion handling covered infractions
it's essentially -
use NO JUDGEMENT - DO NOT THINK -
"go to page 6, section II, paragraph B of the rule book" - then do what it says, period!

OR (shhhh) use the secret section - "if pertaining to football, USE RULE #6"
(ie: rule # 6, put the book away and disavow knowledge of ANYTHING)

I would NOT share parent responsibilities there & frankly would not volunteer any co-operation
to that (zero tolerance) process either


hey, my rules are generally tougher than the schools, the difference being I can use judgement and reasoning in carrying them out - AND I have lattitude to consider many things before dealing with it

we had "zero tolerance" in our HS and - there were a significant # of parents with that mindset, and it put several in difficult positions where in dealing with a "parenting" problem that overlapped with school policies
We could NOT seek the coach's co-operation resolving it without the mandantory
"ZERO TOLERANCE" machine starting up and chewing up & spitting out everything in it's path, including some innocent bystanders

it often resembled congressional hearings

JMO



hey there's a bunch of new smilies, wow



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My son played for a VERY demanding Legion coach--felt part of his job was to prepare them mentally for the college-type coaches. If they underachieved (in effort), they ran--and ran hard after a game until the lights were turned out. They only had to do that twice. He would run with them, too. He was hard but fair with ALL the players, not giving the stars anything. Tough and fair--that's all I ask out of a coach.

Coach Merc, a very good post and some great replies. I tend to agree with TRHit. The coach is the captain of the ship and the players are his deckhands. Parents are basically bystanders or fans. As long as everyone acts responsible everything is smooth. But if anyone: The parent, coach, or player acts irresponsible the whole thing self-destructs. The parent has the responsible to make sure his son understands the hierarchy of a baseball team and respects authority. The player has a responsibility to his teammates to be a team player. He also has a responsibility to his coach to do as he is asked (or told). The coach has a responsibility to the players and to the game of baseball to play the game in an honest and above board manner.
My son has never had a conflict with a coach because he understands the hierarchy .... too well. While I was probably his high school coach’s greatest ally, I did have one issue with him about the over use of my son’s arm as a senior in high school. I told the coach I was prepared to pull him off the team. While I do understand and respect the hierarchy of baseball and the coach/player relationship, parents will always have a responsibility to their children when it comes to health or danger issues. Again, a great topic!
Fungo

I back the coach. If my boys break one of his rules, I expect them to comply with any punishment he gives.

Their HS coach has rules. He doesn't give them on a piece of paper, he tells them in person each year in his office. One player at a time.

If they are on a overnight trip, the team is to be in their rooms by a certain time. If he catches them out of the room after the time, he'll ask why and if he doesn't like the excuse, they are punished. The coach isn't hard to get along with. As long as you go by his rules.

If I may...I'd like to make a little left turn in the discussion (a good discussion by the way).

In our area, most top HS players use private instructors (hitting, pitching, fielding, etc...). Lets not argue about the good/bad of private instructors, but lets say in many cases, these private instructors are really helpful to the kids. I've seen HS coaches in the area have a rule: Thou shalt not see your private instructor during my season.

This rule is actually ok with me personally...I get why its there...but I've seen it work to a HS team's disadvantage...e.g. a hitter slumps because he can't go work out with his hitting instructor and make the corrections he needs (lets be "honest" here...not all HS coaches are as good as the private instructor at a specific skill).

In other words, sometimes I think its an ego trip for the HS coach...i.e. he's fearful of being upstaged. You can say I'm crazy, but I've seen it hurt a team to have this rule. And by the way, I DO believe in following the coach's rule, almost no matter what.

Thoughts?

Thats exactly right justbaseball, agree 100%.

Shep

Any kid/parent willing to work out above and beyound the school and it's program should be encouraged and applauded. You can not cookie cut players....

Justbaseball, Good point. Our players were allowed to have outside instructions but the different methods of teaching created problems too. Really confused my son. I asked the private instructor to advise my son how to handle the differences in teachings. He had a long talk with him. I don't recall the answer but I remember the instructor's hourly fee for advice was the same as his fee for batting lessons.
Fungo
Go Auburn S

Any player that has time for private instruction during our season is welcome to do so. Mon thru Sat practice or games. Practice from 3:45 to 6:45 then hopefully homework to bed. Games from 4:30 to 7:30 or 7:00 to 10:00 if at home. I dont have any problem with a player that wants to get some additional help during the season or out of season as long as they can work it in. We as a staff are always staying after practice to help kids that ask for additional bp ground balls pitching mechanics etc. If they want to work with a private instructor thats great. Hey I wish more kids wanted to work more. The fact is there are not enough willing to put in the work that is required much less extra. Anyone that wants to do more I am all for it. If they are getting conflicting information all they have to do is speak up. You talk about it and you reach an agreement. The bottom line is whatever makes the kid sucessfull I am for. I could careless who is responsible for it as long as it happens.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
Any player that has time for private instruction during our season is welcome to do so. Mon thru Sat practice or games. Practice from 3:45 to 6:45 then hopefully homework to bed. Games from 4:30 to 7:30 or 7:00 to 10:00 if at home. I dont have any problem with a player that wants to get some additional help during the season or out of season as long as they can work it in. We as a staff are always staying after practice to help kids that ask for additional bp ground balls pitching mechanics etc. If they want to work with a private instructor thats great. Hey I wish more kids wanted to work more. The fact is there are not enough willing to put in the work that is required much less extra. Anyone that wants to do more I am all for it. If they are getting conflicting information all they have to do is speak up. You talk about it and you reach an agreement. The bottom line is whatever makes the kid sucessfull I am for. I could careless who is responsible for it as long as it happens.

Good point Coach... We do the same thing here and welcome any kid that wants to get better. Like COach May said we will sit down if there are conflicting views and work out what's best for the kid. Just because something is good for one, does not mean it will not work for all.

The only limitation I see on private instruction during the season would be with a pitcher. We had a gung-ho dad who scheduled his son for private pitching lessons every Sunday. He never made the connection that his son's arm was usually too tired to pitch the next day or two in a game. Pitchers need to keep track of the pitch counts and schedules during the week and not over do it in private lessons.

I may be the exception to the rule here but as a dad, I have my own set of rules for my son. I explain them to the coach and if he still wants him on the team then I will let him play. I learned a long time ago that the only person who will look out for you is you. I told my son that the only person in the world who has his, and only his, best interests at heart are himself and his dad. Example: His H.S. coach wanted the Varsity players to play together in the fall. He got someone to run the team since he wasn't allowed. The new coach told the team that they would practice twice during the week and then play a game on Friday night and another one on Saturday. I told the coach that my son has his studies to take care of during the week and that he would not be there during the week. His 1st practice was on a Saturday and when he still had the kids practicing 3 hours and 15 minutes later I went down to the field and pulled him from the practice. I told the coach that my son was good for 2 hours at practice as he has other responsibilities in his life. That practice finally ended after 4 hours and 15 minutes.

His H.S. coach wanted the team to lift in the weight room after school in the off season. I told the coach that my son was lifting with me so he could learn how to lift weights correctly and that when I felt he was ready he could join the team. The last thing I am going to do is have my son, who has never lifted, horsing around while lifting heavy weights over his head. In the 6 months we lifted together he added 100 pounds to his bench press and remained injury free while his teammates made no progress.

Every year since my son was 9 years old, I have had him play for a coach other than myself. I wanted him to learn at an early age how to please someone other than his dad. Over that time there have been very few instances where I had to intervene, but when it was necessary I had no problem acting on my son's behalf. Any concerned parent should do the same.

I have been a manager for many years and have had to deal with all the problems that come a managers way. The one thing that I never did was try and control the players when they were away from the field. I would never tell a kid he couldn't get private instruction. In fact I encouraged it because during all-star season, my limited practice time was spent on situation baseball and team plays. Another example of a coach trying to extend his authority is when he would tell the players they weren't allowed to go swimming during the day when they had a game that night. I know this applies more to the younger kids but older kids are often given off the field restrictions as well. That kind of controlling coach will be told by me very quickly that his authority does not extend beyond the ball field.

Some very good posts. As a coach I welcomed the extra work or instruction by a player as long as it didn't interfere with team or school work. As an instructor I have worked around most players schedule and I have even met wth some coaches in their free time to get their opinion of the extra instruction. They've all been receptive and we always talk parameters. By not going over the coaches instructional head, we can still accomplish things without confusing the player.