Parents call cops on coach, coach arrested

ECoachB25 posted:

I had a young man enter HS his freshman year with a terrible reputation.  In fact, I was told by the middle school basketball staff to cut him.  The quote stated to me was that, "this young man is foul."  I didn't cut him.  He was trouble.  I got after him.  He turned the corner.  In HS baseball, he was a stud.  Whenever he started to get into trouble, I was called.  He listened to me and turned his life around.  His twin brother did not listen to me.  He went to prison while the brother that did listen to me went the pitch in MLB for several years.  You can't just write kids off.  

I 100% agree.   As a matter of fact, I believe it’s part of the job.   However, in today’s climate you are taking on a liability.   One that can come around to bite you.  

However becoming a “character czar” is a slippery slope too.  A lot easier simply assessing tools    

No easy answers in this climate.

Simply in the last 10-years, a LOT has  changed.   

BishopLeftiesDad posted:

I do not have a stance, because I did not see that happened. I have seen many times where a coach removes a player by putting his arm on the players shoulder and his hand on the back of the neck and guide the player off the field, why talking to him. Probably not what happened in this case. 

However when the kid refused to leave the field, how should he have been removed? 

If he got tossed and still refused to leave, how do you handle it? How would the Ump handle it? 

 

Police are called and they put hand on back of kid’s neck and lead him to back of squad car.  He is charged w public disturbance.    Dad lawyers up.  Charges get dropped.   Dad sues everyone.  Including HC for putting son in that situation.   HC’s career still over.  

Hammer823 posted:

I would think by now, people would understand that they can never put their hands on anyone for any reason, other than maybe self defense.  Probably not even for self defense when it's between an adult and a minor.   Justified or not.  It's the society in which we live.  

Check this out.  A few years ago I listened in on a webinar about sexual harassment/sensitivity training for upper management. It was highly suggested that a male upon meeting a female in a business setting refrain from shaking her hand, unless she extends her hand out FIRST.  Really?  Now upon introductions, I glance down to see if her hand is extended first.  Food for thought.  Today's kids are tomorrow's parents.....

It doesn't matter whether he cupped his neck and made him walk off the field or if he pick him up by the neck and threw him 20ft into the dugout. They're both considered assault today. That is a problem that goes far beyond baseball. All it takes is one sensitive parent to perceive something as assault and it's over for the coach. Police show up, he gets arrested every time. Parents call the paper and HS Coach Assaults Player  is the headline. It's already over at that point. He didn't even have to do anything. Because the school knows the conversation will be - isn't that the coach who assaulted his player? Even if he didn't. 

Trust In Him posted:

Hammer823 posted:

I would think by now, people would understand that they can never put their hands on anyone for any reason, other than maybe self defense.  Probably not even for self defense when it's between an adult and a minor.   Justified or not.  It's the society in which we live.  

Check this out.  A few years ago I listened in on a webinar about sexual harassment/sensitivity training for upper management. It was highly suggested that a male upon meeting a female in a business setting refrain from shaking her hand, unless she extends her hand out FIRST.  Really?  Now upon introductions, I glance down to see if her hand is extended first.  Food for thought.  Today's kids are tomorrow's parents.....

I no longer will close my office door when having a meeting with anyone, male or female.  I want everyone to be able to hear and see what goes on, just to be safe.  We live in an era where society has weaponized anyone's word regarding harassment, whether it is true or not.  

coach2709 posted:

Sooooo I'm not saying laying hands on the kid was right but what happens if he refuses to leave the field even after coach tells him too?  How does this situation end?  Obviously this kid is done but how do you make him leave if he refuses to?

As an official I would eject the player for unsportsmanlike conduct.  Then wait to restart the game until he left the playing field.  If he didn't leave I would have someone contact the school resource officer or local pd to remove him.

CoachB25 posted:

I had a young man enter HS his freshman year with a terrible reputation.  In fact, I was told by the middle school basketball staff to cut him.  The quote stated to me was that, "this young man is foul."  I didn't cut him.  He was trouble.  I got after him.  He turned the corner.  In HS baseball, he was a stud.  Whenever he started to get into trouble, I was called.  He listened to me and turned his life around.  His twin brother did not listen to me.  He went to prison while the brother that did listen to me went the pitch in MLB for several years.  You can't just write kids off.  

And this is what high school athletics is all about.  

"Last night he was okay to the extent that we could see visibly, and by that I mean it wasn’t the type of case where we show up and someone has broken bone, thank god, or bleeding or a black eye, something that required medical attention," Westwood Police Chief Jeffrey Silva said. “It was an unconsented to touching, and therefore it's an assault and battery."

Coach, don’t touch me. I want to stay and argue with the umpire. Coach you touched me. Someone call the cops. <sarcasm

In retrospect the coach should have left the kid at the plate to make an ass of himself and get suspended by the MIAA. It’s what coaches will do in the future. It’s not fair to the umpires. But what coach wants to get arrested and possibly banned from coaching.

Parents wonder where the good coaches have gone. They’re instructing at academies instead of risking getting arrested coaching brats. And the pay is better. It has to be at least minimum wage.,

Too many parents feel no embarrassment over their own child's behavior. This appears to be one of those times.

PABaseball posted:

It doesn't matter whether he cupped his neck and made him walk off the field or if he pick him up by the neck and threw him 20ft into the dugout. They're both considered assault today. That is a problem that goes far beyond baseball. All it takes is one sensitive parent to perceive something as assault and it's over for the coach. Police show up, he gets arrested every time. Parents call the paper and HS Coach Assaults Player  is the headline. It's already over at that point. He didn't even have to do anything. Because the school knows the conversation will be - isn't that the coach who assaulted his player? Even if he didn't. 

This is so true and so sad.  The pendulum has swung too far.

Dominik said...

"I can understand some want those times back considering how little respect and discipline some kids show but it really is good that those days are gone. Physical violence might have a short term positive effect on kid behaviour but it is just out of fear and creating dysfuncional relationships.

Coaches need to go with the time and adapt to certain developments. You can complain as much as you want about "liberal society" but it is as it is."

I agree that people need to adapt but I don't agree in totality that "it really is good that those days are gone".  There has been much needed positive progress in many ways but, as I said, there are also too many circumstances where the pendulum has swung too far and we need to work back in those areas toward reason and common sense.  Those put in position of authority need to be given reasonable leeway to be the person in charge.  If a kid is being a completely spoiled stubborn brat and decides to sit down and pout, disrupting the activity of the group, the person in charge should have every right to (without abuse) remove him from that place.  Sometimes, physical removal is the only alternative.  Again, this can be done without abuse.  Unfortunately, there are those now who would consider a tug on the sleeve to be abuse or violence.  Ridiculous.  As Coach2709 said, what are you supposed to do if the kid won't leave?  Cancel the game?

If it was my son, I would have thanked the coach because I would have been arrested for something worse than assualt 

Probably was.  PABaseball posted:

It doesn't matter whether he cupped his neck and made him walk off the field or if he pick him up by the neck and threw him 20ft into the dugout. They're both considered assault today. That is a problem that goes far beyond baseball. All it takes is one sensitive parent to perceive something as assault and it's over for the coach. Police show up, he gets arrested every time. Parents call the paper and HS Coach Assaults Player  is the headline. It's already over at that point. He didn't even have to do anything. Because the school knows the conversation will be - isn't that the coach who assaulted his player? Even if he didn't. 

Heck, the school principal is using the word “assault,” in the TV interview. Basically, the principal is already saying in his own cafeteria the next day, “Hey isn’t that our coach who assaulted our student?”  The principal, Brother Whatever, even goes on to say, “The student did nothing wrong.”  Wow.   

Now it’s the coach’s turn to play the victim card.   He graduated and played baseball at the very school.   Gee, who do u think he learned to coach from?  Who was his coaching role model?  Probably another long tenured coach like him.   Maybe that’s how that guy coached?  Maybe he was “physical” with his players back in the 80’s. Time for this coach to go to therapy and begin “remembering” incidents from his days as a player at the very school now throwing him under the bus and sue them for unwanted touching back in the 80’s.  

Someone here already mentioned “JUG,” “Justice Under God.”  My Jesuit HS in the 80’s did that.   In “after school detention” priests, who were also coaches,  made u do all sorts of crap that nowadays would never fly.   I bet this HC at Xavierien would know exactly what I’m talking about.   

RJM posted:

Coach, don’t touch me. I want to stay and argue with the umpire. Coach you touched me. Someone call the cops. <sarcasm

 

I know you're being sarcastic in this, but want to point out that the kid's response to the coach telling him to get back in the dugout was more like f-off

I agree, and hind sight being 20/20, should have left him out there to hang himself, but then are you labeled as a coach that won't protect his players?

We had a high school  coach who was the nicest guy. Kind of guy you want your daughter to marry. The senior ss was replaced in the lineup by a freshman because the senior made a lot of errors. Everyone except the senior and his parents thought it was the best move. The parents would make comments in the stands. The senior was a smart a$$. After the second game that he sat the bench, he went off on the coach. Was cussing the coach, dropped 50 f bombs. Senior said that his parents wanted him to quit the team. Coach was hot and said he didn't care what his parents wanted he wanted to know what he wanted, as the coach poked him in the chest. Parents went to AD, than principal. They knew the kid was a punk and tried to sweep it under the rug. Parents went to the school board and the coach was asked to resign.

Similar but different situation but same logic.  Several years ago I had two parents who were both trouble makers all season long.  In the semi-finals of a world series, one of them hollered at the other one's son from the stands.  They got into it, woman and man, to the extent that they stopped the game.  I never left my bucket, had all of it I could take that season.  The tournament director came to me and asked me to do something about it.  I just looked at him and said call the cops or throw them out I don't care.  I have one more game with these parents and we are done.  I loved the kids but the parents made it a nightmare.  He made them leave the facility, best game we had all year.  I told them after the game they were not allowed to come back the next day. 

I would have just left the kid at home plate and told the umpires to call the cops or whoever. 

I do see the issues this climate creates. Coaches will become less coaches and more glorified baby sitters who will not try to mentor and change lives but instead protect themselves and justify decisions with dishonest excuses.

It basically is protect your own ass first and only secondarily about the kids.

However still the coach crossed a line and made a bad decision.

Last year a coach was fired from his coaching job and his teaching job for something questionable that happened on the field. Is it worth the risk to coach for a 3-5K per season paycheck when you could be putting your 75K teaching job on the line?  

At a high school a coach can be stuck coaching entitled brats. At an academy the coach knows 15-18yo players are ballers who are all in on the game. And get paid a lot more than coaching high school.

I know a HS HC who was in his 22nd year of coaching at the same HS he played at and graduated from.   I will not go into any details, but let’s just say two decent ball players were kept in the program even though they were questionable character guys (the type that do stupid things after hours as sophomores on the team’s spring break tourney trip).   The parent units were high maintenance PIAs and HC did not make a federal case of the “alleged” incident.   Knowing how ugly it would get with the parents     

HC kept them around.   Bad idea.  As juniors they and their parents led the charge to oust the  HC for something he “allegedly” did while coaching the kids.   Harmless I assure you.   

They got him fired.   HC giving these questionable character guys a second chance came back around to bite him in the a$$.   He should’ve kicked them off team, or simply cut them at the next tryouts.  

Theyre on team this season as seniors.  He is no longer coaching.   

and i'm sure all of these kids have done nothing wrong.  in the case of xaverian brothers hIgh school, $22,000/year plus a sizable donation worth of nothing wrong.

“The kid was arguing balls and strikes. If you do that you get ejected. The coach wanted to save his player from getting ejected so he walked up behind him and pushed him towards the dugout, and in order to have leverage he used one hand to grab the back of his neck.”

- Witness to Boston 25 News