I was just on the PBR site and they have players listed as "top in the state" who are running 7.46 and higher 60 yd dashes. It is my understanding that a player needs to be under a 7.0. Is their evaluation accurate? Just curious.
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60 time is certainly not the "tell all". Sub 7's are not as common as you may think. A top hitting 1B/3B may certainly not run a sub 7 but if can hit bombs, throw 83mph across the field he will be a top guy.
depends a lot on the Position I think and also the type of hitter you are.
for catchers and 1Bs Speed is not that important. if you hit bombs too.
but if you are a line drive/gap type of hitter (who only occasionally hits a HR) and Play the middle IF and especially OF it is important.
One can assume that a players listed in the top of their state with a 7.46 60 Yard time either RAKE or throw high 80s / low 90s. Or both.
My son is a P/DH at a D1....he was recruited by teams as a 2B and as a P. He never ran under 7.0.....in fact I really don't think he was close. He grew 3" and gained 20 lbs his Senior year of HS after he committed and was the starting forward on the soccer team. He may have gained some speed after his commitment as he held his own with anyone on the soccer field by his Senior year, but at the time he was being looked at for baseball, his lack of speed never came up
Mostly important for of'ers and mif'ers. My son is selling himself as a PO. His best 40 time is 8.10. That's what speed do.
If your talking about a Freshman or Sophomore he still has some time to improve on his time.
Speed does matter. It just depends on the staff and how they view it. Some teams love faster guys even at the 1B position.
PBR? Professional Bull Riders?
lionbaseball posted:PBR? Professional Bull Riders?
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Thank you to everyone who responded. I think for my son, he is fast...yet he is NOT a power hitter...but when he does hit, he can get on base because of his speed IF he does not hit it directly at an infielder!!! He is still growing. Thanks again, really enjoying this site!!
Glad you enjoy the site. Ironically, I saw a RHP throw 88 on a stalker. He also hit a ball that hasn't landed yet. I'm not sure what his 60 time is but I'll bet the 4 people taking notes in the stands aren't too concerned about his 60 time.
To be upfront, I think that is part of my son's problem. He is a good player, has a fire in his belly, is a very good baserunner YET he is not a power hitter...so he needs that 60 time to be as close to or under 7. His 30 is 3.91...so apparently he is quick at the start and then slows...(I guess??). He is a good fielder...has worked on his throwing arm and is getting stronger all the time. We will see what happens. If the right person sees him and likes what they see...who knows what could happen.
I wouldn't put much stock into PBR rankings. The event that my son attended, they were actually were using iPads for throws to second. 60 times were ran solo and starters just dropped their hands
I'm with Catcher Dad, similar experience with dropping arms and stop watches.
Add in a couple well documented participants mysteriously lose (-8 to -10mph) significant velo readings when attending other showcase events a couple weeks before.
Was told by one of the staff after they like to pull numbers back to show improvement at future events.
a catcher's dad posted:I wouldn't put much stock into PBR rankings. The event that my son attended, they were actually were using iPads for throws to second. 60 times were ran solo and starters just dropped their hands
Where was this? Both events my son has attended (VA) were professional and very well run.
I would suggest attending a Complete Showcase. Brutal honesty goes a long way
bballdad2016 posted:a catcher's dad posted:I wouldn't put much stock into PBR rankings. The event that my son attended, they were actually were using iPads for throws to second. 60 times were ran solo and starters just dropped their hands
Where was this? Both events my son has attended (VA) were professional and very well run.
I have had the same experience--great--with PBR Virginia events.
2016 has attended 2 PBR showcases.I felt/still feel they were both well worth the money spent.1 of the showcases was an invite only and basically free.I think both evaluations were honest assesments along with the numbers posted.I have been folowing PBR for @ 5-6 yrs. since before anyone else knew what I knew about 2016.Didn't realize the first 2-3 yrs. that this was the case since I didn't know of/about any of the kids that PBR really puts out there for all to read."They have there guys" if you know what I mean.Also a big plus is to keep going to the different showcases/events as a player progresses thru HS.If anyone were to ask me if they would get there moneys worth attending a PBR showcase/event along with are things well run?Any answer other than hell yes would be a lie.Thats are how things are in my neck of the woods.
Never had any issues with PBR here in Ohio. Ohio was one of the first PBR states and the state director is a well known baseball guy in the state. Very well respected by college coaches. My son attended several PBR events during his HS years. We were always happy with the posted results and they ususally were right on par with anything he had been clocked at at any one else's events. I know all the states are different with regard to directors and how they may run things so I guess there could be differences....as there is with any multi-state organization but some of them are really good.
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c2019 posted:well the best numbers don't always equal the Top ranked, in the case of my 2019 , who has awesome numbers is starting varsity catcher and bats # 2 in the lineup.. he has been given high praise by PBR and PG, but is under sized according to them(PBR) .LOL I laugh when I see guys like Jose Altuve and stroman from the royals. and others ,, just killing it in the MLB,
if the kids isn't 6,2 200 lbs he is not projectable to PBR- which I think is a joke! unlike PG who gave him a ALL American award for underclassmen , and he hasn't even been to a PG event, I say keep working on the skills of the kid, and the numbers will continue to rise , for my 2019 no bad for 78mph from the crouch and 84mph on the mound , but then again what do I know ..lol
How big is your son? I guess I would ask this....if PBR has seen him and called him undersized (is he?) and PG hasn't even seen him, how would you argue that PG is right and PBR is wrong? I'm not trying to start and argument, and again, I know PBR states can be different. Your son is a freshman....when mine was a freshman he had good numbers for his age, started at 2B and P, but was 5'2 and maybe 100 lbs. PBR isn't an agent or a promoter....they are a source for information that coaches can find and at least here strive to be credible. His numbers were good....and right there on the site for everyone to see. They called my son undersized too. He was.....I can't argue that. He's was maybe 5'4 as a sophomore, 5'8 as a junior and then finally grew. He's now 6'1 ,180 playing at a D1....but I'll guarantee you nobody....PBR, PG or anyone else would have projected him as a D1 guy at 14.....your son can't do anything about what someone says....if he is undersized, he'll have to make up for it on the field....just as every other "smaller" kid has to do.
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If I remember correctly, and I'm sure I do, C2019's son had numbers that would have placed him at the 99th percentile on PG for 2018s at the time he first started posting (which I happened to find online and verify). There weren't enough 2019s out there at the time (on PG) for me to get a comparison. Just going by those numbers I would say that PG was right and PBR was wrong. They were the type of numbers that may lead people to ignore the size of the player. Just saying. I have no beef with PBR, just trying to help C2019 make his point (not sure if he needed help or not).
note - edited to remove a phrase that was mis-used.
If you get invited to the PBR Super60, it is definitely a good event. Its on Super Bowl Sunday in Chicago and every MLB team has multiple scouts present. Some of the best video and angles I have seen so far.
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I found PBR to be credible and it seemed like they put sufficient effort into researching players. I like their website too.
While attending a camp at a D1 here in Missouri the recruiting coordinator made the comment that he looks at PBR and PG everyday . He said that they utilize these sites for leads and for the most part agree with their general observation's in most cases. Made a point to emphasize that they do not sign anyone from 3rd party information or video but it is one data point they use to vet their watch list . This hit home with my son.
Jlr58 posted:While attending a camp at a D1 here in Missouri the recruiting coordinator made the comment that he looks at PBR and PG everyday . He said that they utilize these sites for leads and for the most part agree with their general observation's in most cases. Made a point to emphasize that they do not sign anyone from 3rd party information or video but it is one data point they use to vet their watch list . This hit home with my son.
Interesting... At a pretty well known ACC school camp recently the hc said they might use the recruiting services to lookup a players email address if they already know abt a player, but they do not use or trust their analyses. In his words, their livelihoods depend on recruiting good players and they do not rely on 3rd parties.
CmassRHPDad posted:Jlr58 posted:While attending a camp at a D1 here in Missouri the recruiting coordinator made the comment that he looks at PBR and PG everyday . He said that they utilize these sites for leads and for the most part agree with their general observation's in most cases. Made a point to emphasize that they do not sign anyone from 3rd party information or video but it is one data point they use to vet their watch list . This hit home with my son.
Interesting... At a pretty well known ACC school camp recently the hc said they might use the recruiting services to lookup a players email address if they already know abt a player, but they do not use or trust their analyses. In his words, their livelihoods depend on recruiting good players and they do not rely on 3rd parties.
I think a lot has to do with geography and where you are looking to recruit. I am pretty sure many well known ACC coaches do use PG information.
Sure maybe. Although I can't help but think that acc programs have plenty of talent banging on the door without the need for recruiting services.
I don't mean to criticize pbr, pg, or any of the others. My players has attended these events and enjoyed himself. I just question the whole model of attending an event and hoping to be making the right play at the very moment the right coach just happens to be looking your way.
Maybe a coach is at an event. Maybe the coach sees a player that he might not have seen otherwise. But if you want to attend and play at school x, why not just attend the schools camp?
You might have missed prior discussion, for most college camps, the reason is to make money to support their volunteer coaches. Thats just not for baseball camps either. Football camps, soccer camps, they all do it to raise money. Most coaches get PAID to go outand recruit on the road, not from a few camps they have each year.
One doesnt have to make the right play at the right time. Coaches look beyond that for recuiting. The whole idea is to play against the best competition you can.
Its not that difficult to understand. Some coaches look at the PG site after each showcase (I know of one guy that does that) to look for players that may fit their player profile.
I apologize for any misunderstanding... You personally know an acc coach who looks at pg after every event?
I read your last reply and I imagine dastardly college coaches sitting around tables covered with piles of money, wringng their hands and joking about the rubes they duped out of their hard earned cash. Meanwhile, altruistic recruiting services carry on the noble task of matching players to colleges, money be damned!
Does the coach you know claim that their camps are really nothing more than money making events, with no interest in attracting talent? While I'm sure it's true that camps and clinics raise funds to bolster their programs, I've heard more than one coach state that many / most players on the roster attended a camp. Do you think these guys are not telling the truth?
High level competition is definitely valuable and these events absolutely provide that. I have seen this first hand. However I think they are trying to market a different message when they publish photos showing 2 dozen scouts sitting in golf carts behind a backstop holding radar guns. I think they want you to believe that your kid will be playing in front of a small army of scouts and recruiting coaches at all of their events.
I apologize for the tone of my post. I'm just being a wise guy. You have been a member here for a long time and you have a lot of good knowledge to share. I do appreciate the info. I just think their are many different paths to play college sports and many different parties who want to help you (and help separate you from your money) along the way. Gotta keep your head on a swivel.
I need to correct myself. While I have heard more than one coach here in the northeast that they do not see a ton of value in recruiting services, i also spoke to a coach at a caa school in nc. We were touring campus with my daughter for a potential transfer. It just happened to be the same weekend they were hosting a pitcher catcher camp. We wandered into the ballpark and the coaches just happened to be standing around talking. Being from out of thw area, I specifically where to be seen by schools. He acknowledged that showcases were useful.
Maybe it is a regional thing. My apologies to TPM.
Thinking of having my son do a PBR showcase next month in NJ. Any first-hand experience with PBR NJ events? Feel free to PM if you want to keep off the thread.
TPM posted:CmassRHPDad posted:Jlr58 posted:While attending a camp at a D1 here in Missouri the recruiting coordinator made the comment that he looks at PBR and PG everyday . He said that they utilize these sites for leads and for the most part agree with their general observation's in most cases. Made a point to emphasize that they do not sign anyone from 3rd party information or video but it is one data point they use to vet their watch list . This hit home with my son.
Interesting... At a pretty well known ACC school camp recently the hc said they might use the recruiting services to lookup a players email address if they already know abt a player, but they do not use or trust their analyses. In his words, their livelihoods depend on recruiting good players and they do not rely on 3rd parties.
I think a lot has to do with geography and where you are looking to recruit. I am pretty sure many well known ACC coaches do use PG information.
This was my original post. I did say geographically areas are different and do things diffetently.
My son is a D2 coach in Florida. He looks through PG info regularly for players that fit his program. He was a student assistant last year for Clemson. FWIW, the power conference programs in the southeast actually recruit more from top travel teams, and attend PG high profile tournaments to watch them play against national competition. They may ask players to come to their camp because the NCAA doesn't allow them face to face contact.
Just remember that this is a business, the more contacts you have in the business, the more info you have at your disposal to recruit.
You live in a different area, so I cant say whether they recruit diffetently. Just remember that coaches from the north recruit from the north and coaches from the south recruit from the south. Same for midwest. California a bit different.
Now for my response about camps. NCAA rules only allow a certain amount of paid coaches. So coaches run camps to make money to help provide a salary for the volunteer coaches. Some camp programs are very good at teaching skills, it's a good experience for many. But here in this part of the world, most don't rely on a camp to recruit a player. A lot of things go into the recruiting process who will be a good fit for your particular program. All coaches have different objectives and their own unique set of issues.
While I understand what you are saying, in my own personal experience with son, he was found by the college recruiter of Clemson at Jupiter wood bat tourney.
I know from Jerry Ford (PGstaff), Kevin O'Sullivan did contact them about son during the year he was recruiting son.
Also, understand that some programs are much richer than others, so going to, let's say CA from a southeast power program to see a player can do that because they have a larger budget. And college head recruiters do get paid to coach and recruit.
And one more thing, I have always said that one does not have to spend a lot of money to get a scholarship. Always. It takes a lot of planning.
Just remember a coach may tell you he recruits from camps because he more than likely knows that will open the door for you to come, if that's a priority on your sons list, go for it.
But how much can a coach learn about you from a camp?
Also, PBR isn't as big here as in other places, but if I am going to have my son ranked amd rated, its gonna be wit the best company who will offer the best scouting there is.
Be a wise guy all you want, but first try to educate yourself on the ENTIRE process. I dont have to share any of this but I know some of it will help. You as well as others will figure it out on your own.
Any questions shoot a pm.
TPM You were very helpful when I had questions abt the sunshine state conference. I do appreciate all the insight.
CmassRHPDad posted:TPM You were very helpful when I had questions abt the sunshine state conference. I do appreciate all the insight.
Son coaches in that conference.