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> On Aug 3, 2021, at 4:38 PM, HS Baseball Web <alerts@crowdstack.com> wrote:
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IN 1987, created the AC games and there was NO showcases existing. I sold the games in 2004. Many "copy cats" and "showcase gypsy's.
The new method of evaluating players is debatable.To rely on "metrics" is open to failure of the team.
For 17 years the scouts made the selections. I trusted their decisions.
There were Several players which I added - Albert Pujols, Adam LaRoche, Adam Greenberg, Sam Fuld because of their successful tryouts.
Bob
The new method of evaluating players is debatable.To rely on "metrics" is open to failure of the team.
For 17 years the scouts made the selections. I trusted their decisions.
There were Several players which I added - Albert Pujols, Adam LaRoche, Adam Greenberg, Sam Fuld because of their successful tryouts.
Bob
@Consultant posted:IN 1987, created the AC games and there was NO showcases existing. I sold the games in 2004. Many "copy cats" and "showcase gypsy's.
The new method of evaluating players is debatable.To rely on "metrics" is open to failure of the team.
For 17 years the scouts made the selections. I trusted their decisions.
There were Several players which I added - Albert Pujols, Adam LaRoche, Adam Greenberg, Sam Fuld because of their successful tryouts.
Bob
There is more substance to this post than most people realize I suspect. I encourage everyone to read it again and let it sink in.
Adbono;
During the 17 years, I received many phone calls regarding placing players. At a Rockies tryout at Regis College in Denver, I spoke from the pitchers mound to the 400 parents, players, College Coaches and Pro Scouts.
My message was "only the pro scouts can select players to the AC games"!! My cell phone rang and it was Tommy {Dodgers]. He wanted to place Fred Claire's {GM} grandson in the games. "I said Tommy you have your Dodgers AC team and you can do what you want to".
He said OK!!! "True Story!!!
Bob
Anybody else have a "friends and family" draft pick or free agent signing in the shortened draft era story.... my favorite 2021 version so far...
Dad helps hitting coach with a couple of business opportunities...Hitting coach was college roomies with "guy in an organization"...kid who had one mediocre Juco season during covid shortened year sandwiched between 2 D1 seasons of watching from the dugout....signs as a free agent...also left a juco in the fall prior to covid spring juco season because he was not gonna play much...somewhere a "ballplayer" was denied a shot.....never gonna stop it but it doesn't mean ya gotta like it....
Saw another kid on the AC underclassmen team where the reaction was "How and why?" Then found out the dad has a connection in the scouting community. I guess daddyball never stops?
Francis;
did you attend the tryout? what is the background of your committee?
In the end result the pro scouts and College Coaches make their final selections based on personal experience. The Ocean is "full" of talent, now is the time to reduce the talent to a swimming pool.
Bob
PS: it would have been enjoyable to have you at the AC tryouts and have you explain what your eyes see.
I doubt the credibility of the AC will take a hit. Anyway these "token selection" discussions will be a much needed break from the usual banter from the backstop dads and moms.
@Consultant posted:Francis;
did you attend the tryout? what is the background of your committee?
In the end result the pro scouts and College Coaches make their final selections based on personal experience. The Ocean is "full" of talent, now is the time to reduce the talent to a swimming pool.
Bob
PS: it would have been enjoyable to have you at the AC tryouts and have you explain what your eyes see.
My kid went to a trial. I wasn’t there “to see” because of COVID - it was players only. But, I saw the measurables afterwards and the kid did well. Also saw the measurables of the other attendees. No one at his position was tremendously better than him.
Kids were told at the very beginning “great that you are here, but, be advised that our rosters are 99% done already and the odds of something coming out of this for you are not good, no matter what you do here.”
Now, I am a realist and objective. My kid is very good – and not great. He’s got some incredible skills. But, he also has some holes – as do many players. He’s not Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. But, that said, I know he’s better skilled and more talented than the two kids I have mentioned. HOWEVER, there’s also MANY, MANY, kids better than my kid too, and they also were passed on in favor of the daddy influenced selections.
Just Cashman alone. We know a kid in NJ – also a middle infielder, but, he’s a SS and not a 2B (like Cashman). This kid is BIG and FAST. He’s also got an incredible hit tool – average and power. Throws extremely well too. He’s a very good SS. But, even if that doesn’t work out, his bat profiles to 3B or the OF. I could easily see him being a standout in CF. Like Cashman, he’s a 2022. But, he’s not reclassed like Cashman. He’s not old at all for his grade. Oh, and, by the way, just so you know it’s not just me on the eval, he’s been a P5 commit since he was a sophomore in H.S. He’s the real deal. He was also at the trial with my son. But, his dad is just a school teacher and not the GM of the Yankees. So, the roster spot goes to Cashman.
This is just one SS from NJ. I am sure there’s a lot more like him in the North East just as good who could have gotten that spot.
@Francis7 posted:My kid went to a trial. I wasn’t there “to see” because of COVID - it was players only. But, I saw the measurables afterwards and the kid did well. Also saw the measurables of the other attendees. No one at his position was tremendously better than him.
Kids were told at the very beginning “great that you are here, but, be advised that our rosters are 99% done already and the odds of something coming out of this for you are not good, no matter what you do here.”
Now, I am a realist and objective. My kid is very good – and not great. He’s got some incredible skills. But, he also has some holes – as do many players. He’s not Mike Trout or Bryce Harper. But, that said, I know he’s better skilled and more talented than the two kids I have mentioned. HOWEVER, there’s also MANY, MANY, kids better than my kid too, and they also were passed on in favor of the daddy influenced selections.
Just Cashman alone. We know a kid in NJ – also a middle infielder, but, he’s a SS and not a 2B (like Cashman). This kid is BIG and FAST. He’s also got an incredible hit tool – average and power. Throws extremely well too. He’s a very good SS. But, even if that doesn’t work out, his bat profiles to 3B or the OF. I could easily see him being a standout in CF. Like Cashman, he’s a 2022. But, he’s not reclassed like Cashman. He’s not old at all for his grade. Oh, and, by the way, just so you know it’s not just me on the eval, he’s been a P5 commit since he was a sophomore in H.S. He’s the real deal. He was also at the trial with my son. But, his dad is just a school teacher and not the GM of the Yankees. So, the roster spot goes to Cashman.
This is just one SS from NJ. I am sure there’s a lot more like him in the North East just as good who could have gotten that spot.
This should not be a surprise to anyone. Many times it who you know; happens all the time in sports, business and politics. Unless you are a bonified pro-prospect the real value for anyone trying out for an Area Code team are the many many college scouts in the stands during the tryouts.... and all of it is FREE. This was one of the two best events my son participated in during his recruitment, and again it did not cost a cent. (other than gas) Thanks @Consultant (Bob!)
I hope the kid who got skipped uses that experience as fuel to take his game to a point where he is a "no doubter" in the eyes of the evaluators.
During 17 years [1987-2004], I attended each tryout and evaluated players who were missed at the tryouts and placed them on our 900 team.
BOF is correct, each tryout attracted the College Coaches, many flew on the same plane West to East. There was NO cost to tryout and the coaches paid $40.00 for the roster.
It was later that the "showcase gypsy's" and the "copycats" showcases all charging $$$ and adding words like "metrics". The 6 tools and "body language" are the objectives of the Coaches and Scouts. That will never change.
Bob
@2022NYC posted:I hope the kid who got skipped uses that experience as fuel to take his game to a point where he is a "no doubter" in the eyes of the evaluators.
I can't speak for the kid. But, I wouldn't blame a kid for taking a different stance and saying "This thing is a joke if that's how people get picked and that's who is going."
The Yankees scouts operate the AC team. They expend $$ and time to coordinate the players to the West Coast into the Hotels and to the field. The Yankee scouts are responsible for the players.
The young man has ability or he would not expose himself to the 300 pro scouts, who know the father and the College Coaches. The "pressure" is great!!!!
During my years, we had sons of Fernando Valenzuela, Dave LaRoche, Fred Claire and a Movie actor.
Bob
@Consultant posted:The Yankees scouts operate the AC team. They expend $$ and time to coordinate the players to the West Coast into the Hotels and to the field. The Yankee scouts are responsible for the players.
The young man has ability or he would not expose himself to the 300 pro scouts, who know the father and the College Coaches. The "pressure" is great!!!!
During my years, we had sons of Fernando Valenzuela, Dave LaRoche, Fred Claire and a Movie actor.
Bob
Teddy Cashman is a very good kid. Loves the game. Plays hard. Puts in the work. Francis is correct. He is a good player but he's not AC good. I root for everyone around here and I hope he finds a great D1 to attend and I hope he crushes it.
Gunner;
the 11 ways to score a run.
sac fly, balk, catcher's interference, wild pitch, pass ball, squeeze play, steal, fielder's choice, hit, walk w/ bases loaded, error.
Bob
@Consultant posted:During 17 years [1987-2004], I attended each tryout and evaluated players who were missed at the tryouts and placed them on our 900 team.
BOF is correct, each tryout attracted the College Coaches, many flew on the same plane West to East. There was NO cost to tryout and the coaches paid $40.00 for the roster.
It was later that the "showcase gypsy's" and the "copycats" showcases all charging $$$ and adding words like "metrics". The 6 tools and "body language" are the objectives of the Coaches and Scouts. That will never change.
Bob
Bob,
My son is from your time with AC. The area code team scout submitted your name and you were in, no questions asked you went to CA for tryouts, no cost.
However my son was in the middle of regional Connie Mack championships so he declined.
USA baseball ran things differently back then as well. You attended team games in either FL or AZ and you were chosen at the end of competition. Son made the cut to Houston for tryouts, but he was a year younger so he essentially missed the team.
That experience alone is what helped him in being recruited to great programs.
Things have changed, not sure that it's for the best.
Thank you for all that you have done for youth baseball.
Keep those stories coming.
Barbara; I remember the call. I believe I offered to hold a "roster" spot for your son and when he was completed in Farmington then he could pitch 2 innings in Long Beach.
Bob
Pretty good Bob, I don't remember what I had for breakfast this morning!
I remember our Pirate Team tryout at the U of Miami. My efficiency in the tryout "backfired"! I organized the infield practice to appear at the same time as the OF throw from RF. The scouts complained. They were a different group than the NE, Texas & Calif.
I told them they had two eyes, watch RF with one eye and SS throws with the other eye. "Cooler" heads prevailed and we ran a normal tryout. All infielder throw from SS and OF all throw from RF.
Bob
@Francis7 posted:I can't speak for the kid. But, I wouldn't blame a kid for taking a different stance and saying "This thing is a joke if that's how people get picked and that's who is going."
He could but in every level there is some form of favoritism. The only real solution is to stand out.
Old ERA Dad here.
My son attended an MLB Scouting Bureau Showcase in 2012 as a 16 year old (minimum age).
I afforded and opportunity to be seen and heard hitting with wood against INDY, JUCO, D1-D3, and a few baseball fans.
With no metrics and scouts eyes (+ stop watch for throws/60yds), he was identified for further follow. Alas, the SCOUTING BUREAU has been scuttled.
This lead to an AC tryout in PA which was attended by 30+ college coaches from primarily NE schools and Phillies Scouts/Minor League Staffs.
He didn't make the cut, but impressed the group. He received multiple invites to Colleges and was followed during his Jr HS season by multiple area scouts in the New England Area.
He was drafted out of HS, but was not ready for the Minors: He attended an SEC powerhouse and was drafted in 2nd round in 2016.
He now resides in a West Coast AAA as an switch/OF.
If the metrics were in effect in 2012, he would have missed the cut by a long shot.
Moral of the tale: In today's metrics climate, the Player MUST show prowess in game play, because the metrics are fluid.
Bring back the SCOUTS EYES!!!!
the only real difference between then and now is today he probably wouldn't get the chance to prove he can play but some kid who lit the boards will get several chances to prove he can't....wait i guess it has changed. Hope the sarcasm is clear enough!
Truth is bring back the scouts eyes sounds as good as hitting the other way, bunting to beat the shift, hitting over .300 etc...and you see how that is going.
why is it always an either or proposition? metrics should enhance what scouts do, not replace them.
Full Disclosure Time:
Who picks up a hard copy of the news paper in the morning? That's so 1980's . Right?
Yep, I said "hard copy."
As Brad Pitt said in Money ball, " adapt of die."
