PBR: What do they do?

What year is your son?  What level of college play is he projected for?

PBR publishes metrics that they take; their credibility depends on the state.  They also rank players, choose players for their high-profile events (Futures, State Games), etc.   In some states, the PBR people scout and report on HS games.

NCSA, Fieldlevel, etc. are companies with online platforms that allow you to publish your self-reported data.   In our experience, they didn't take data themselves.  It's completely different.

If your metrics on PBR are outstanding, college coaches will take notice.  If they are not D1-level metrics, then none of it will matter before the summer before senior year anyway.

Thanks.  He is a 2022, and projected D2 player who will likely play at a HA D3 or regular D3.  His metrics are not at the D1 level.  So it sounds like if a player has top metrics, coaches may use PBR to find him, but if he does not have metrics that stand out or are top of class,  it may be better to go to other showcases where coaches can see him play.

PBR PA/NJ/NYC are all very closely related, and managed by the same group of people. IMO it's a very well managed region. My 2020 played in several events, including the NYS games, and had contact with several coaches that attended.

My 2022 has attended multiple events including the 2020 NYS games and 2020 Future Games. I can say for certain that the coach that recruited him to the school he ended up committing to first saw him via live feed from the NYS games and that's how contact was made.

If he's a 2022, this is his summer.  Some state PBRs have a showcase in May or early June, that both produces metrics for the website and is also attended by a lot of local college coaches from all levels; they are looking at the rising seniors, especially D2s and D3s.

Thanks for the responses.  @nycdad congrats to your son - he must be a top player to be committed already!  My son is a solid player, but was a late bloomer and will not standout on metrics alone.  This will be the critical summer for him.  I have not seen PBR showcases here in PA in May or June, but maybe they will add them.  I feel they would be worth trying more so than the Team scout days and other events they hold where it is just for gathering metrics. 

I don’t recommend waiting to be found. Waiting to be found is for potential pro prospects. Make a target list of about fifty, sixty college programs. This isn’t too many. Over the course of time some won’t express interest in him. After learning more about the schools he will lose interest in some.

Email each one expressing interest in their baseball and academics. Include baseball metrics, gpa and SAT/GPA scores. A two minute skills video (not highlights) can’t hurt. Ask what events they attend in order to get in front of them. With the ones that respond make contact before the event describing how he can be identified.

It’s very helpful if a travel coach has credibility and contacts. He can make phone calls to coaches telling them he has a player they should be interested.

Make an easy to identify email name like firstnamelastname.high school or travel team2022@email.com. A parent can do the repetitious admin work. But the kid needs to write the email so it sounds like it’s coming from a teen. I’m not advising dumbing down an email. I’m advising don’t sound like an adult. Also use a contacts database that flags next step dates.

if he’s a potential HA sign up for HeadFirst events.

@RJM. Thank you!   He has a list of 20 colleges and has reached out, has not heard back from most does have some regular emails happening.  Appreciate your help and sound advice!

Their beer is tasty.

My son got alot of contacts from PBR events here in Ohio.  The PBR futures game here in Ohio  had well over 100 coaches attend.  He had an outstanding day....and even though he was maybe 5'8, 140 at the time started getting contact from all levels....from D1 down to JUCO from an event that saw him have 4 AB's (all hits) and pitch 2 innings with 3 K's.   As someone mentioned, not all PBR states are run the same....and not all have the same "connections" with college coaches.  Are you close enough to attend a showcase in Ohio?  They get ALOT of D2 and D3 coaches at their events here.

PBR Pros - they are a legitimate showcase service where things like velocity, speed, times, height, and video can be seen and cross referenced by college coaches. They are also extremely active on social media so if a coach happens to be scrolling thru twitter while on the throne, he might come across a video of little Johnny.

PBR Cons - They are extremely active on social media. Meaning anybody who picked up a baseball and paid is getting posted on there and sold as a prospect. 90% of the posts are nothing unfortunately. That isn't necessarily a problem, but it creates the illusion that they have such a large audience that it is bound to give your kid more exposure when in reality most scroll thru because they've already seen four average players in a row and don't care to see more. They also don't appear to have a better list of colleges than your average local showcase.

My experience with PBR (2) - The first was a regular showcase. Great for getting velocity verified online. Really all we went for. The second was a team showcase. It stunk. Grass wasn't cut, soaking wet, and it was hand timed running on a bit of an upwards slope. Nobody was sub 70 in our 13-18u program which seemed bizarre to me. BP guy was throwing rainbows to home and it just wasn't a very good day for anybody involved. Mound was a mess, and pitchers were throwing at the very end so we split early and decided to just skip.

If I'm a position player, I'm staying away. If I'm a pitcher I would go only to get some film and stats but I wouldn't expect anything to come out of it other than that. They aren't calling college on behalf of any one's kid so unless he is a can't miss prospect and they are calling in a tip to one of their college buddies, it isn't going to be the most useful for an uncommitted player.

Thanks!  Great advice.  I am about 4 hours from Ohio, but if it would be for the right event, with the coaches my son wants to get in front of, we would drive that easily.  I am really leaning toward other showcases.  Keep the advice coming everyone.  Thanks.

@Miller2020 posted:

Thanks for the responses.  @nycdad congrats to your son - he must be a top player to be committed already!  My son is a solid player, but was a late bloomer and will not standout on metrics alone.  This will be the critical summer for him.  I have not seen PBR showcases here in PA in May or June, but maybe they will add them.  I feel they would be worth trying more so than the Team scout days and other events they hold where it is just for gathering metrics.

Check the website. They list them out in advance. They've just had all their local events which are feeders for your state games. They are having PO events now. I think they then stop during the HS season and pickup with the state games. They'll have plenty over the summer.

D2s and D3s can see players now, so you may want to target some schools and find out where they will be.

check out PBR PA on twitter to see what they do: https://twitter.com/PBRPennsylvania?s=20

The guys at PBR PA/NY are very approachable ... will answer your emails, reply to your private messages, and answer their phones. 

PBR States definitely differ. I wish we had the events/organization/leadership and quality of the PA/NY events. Our experience with PBR TX was not all that (quite bad at the various events and 2 showcases (10 pitches only, and they got the type and velo wrong). Additionally they don't even update velo for pitchers (even when they (Tucker) tweet about the updated velo) and getting on/to Future Games might be more political than you might think, but if you can navigate it. Great event. Great exposure.   Just be careful putting your eggs in showcase baskets. If you're going to stand out, great. If run of the mill, then skip. Head guy for PA/NY is great. @DanCevette is also a great one for your kids to follow as he offers great insight and inspiration almost daily. I talks the talk and has walked the walk.

What about a connected 3rd party? I'm not saying pony up for a recruiter or service. But what about investing in a Radar Gun (NOT pocket Radar) and getting video for email/youtube that you can share? If you have a video with a radar gun like Stalker Sport or Pro 2 or higher - way more credibility and now you have it for every event, every video for tweets or updates to a coach? What about a local photographer that has video service or promotion available and now you have a tweet or @mention to list in a baseball profile you share?

Why so many showcases? Do you have something to showcase? If you don't you shouldn't go. What if you have a bad day, now it's documented and you paid big money for it ($700 for PG). They do the same thing as all showcases whether academic or otherwise. Heard good things about Headfirst and some other academic showcases.

Are you not in an area where you can get to a BIG event? PBR/PG? More opportunity to be seen by more coaches (live or video), less expensive.  A good travel ball program, going to a good event and competing, is better than a high $$ showcase.

What about an academic showcase - if you have better grades? Grades/Test scores matter. These showcases brag on who is going to be there, but they hardly ever are and with the extended dead, they haven't been or can't. More access via video for an appetizer, but coaches want/need to see you in person, usually.

Be careful with camps too. Some are good and better than others and others are just not. Plenty of threads and information on here to check out.

You also have to get to the region you want to target for schools for events/tourneys/showcases/camps. We had to get east to target east programs that wouldn't come to TX. Be selective on what and where you go.

Eokerholm, you always say that about TX  PBR, but we could not have had a more different experience.  We went to ONE event outside of the Future games.  After the event, the head guy pulled my son over and talked to him, asked him questions. They reached out to LSU without our knowledge before we showed up for camp (my son must have said we were going in their chat).  My son never played for a power team, so we didn't use connections.  Shooter Hunt and Nathan Rode attended various HS events and reported on them (not just for our son but multiple kids on our team or teams we played).  During Covid, the new TX rep reached out to set up a private Trackman session for my son and several other guys on our team and in the area. The rep was at the big hs tournament earlier this year in Arlington.  I think they do a great job.  I'm surprised there was such a disconnect with what you experienced.

@baseballhs I've very glad to hear that your experience was better than ours (across multiple events). Yours seems more recent as we abandoned PBR and focused solely on PG events and playing out of state on the East Coast (ATL, Ft. Meyers, Jupiter, Hoover) after summer 2019. That's a good thing.  Hopefully that is a trend that sticks.

Our event was2017 with Toby Bicknell. He was there was 2018 Futures and the new guy we met last year when he did the Trackman session.  Sorry yours experience wasn’t good. Seems your son did fine. Lots of paths to the same goals.

Back to the OP.  PBR, like other services, is interested in identifying and promoting D1 players.  They are not going to "do" anything for your player if he is a D2/D3/NAIA type, other than post his metrics.  On the other hand, if they have a showcase where those coaches attend, it can be a good deal, if he does well.

When my son was at the end of junior year, we had no idea how any of this worked.  He went to a PBR event in May (I think promoted as for uncommitted players) because it seemed like everyone else he knew was going.  I don't think they advertised that college coaches would be there, but they were, lots of them, from D3 up to D1.  I think my son signed up in early May, so maybe they don't advertise early.  Or, maybe they are waiting to see what the COVID rules will be in each state, to know if they can hold these at all.

@anotherparent. Thank you.  This seems to be exactly what I am seeing and hearing.  If you are not a D1 level player (my son is not), the events where they are only for getting updated metrics are not worth it.  PBR showcases with college coaches of all levels attending, may be worth it.  I will keep checking to see if they offer these kind of showcases as we get through spring.  He is mostly interested in schools outside of PA anyways,  so I will continue checking other PBR state sites too...   

Someone else said it best:  write to coaches at the schools that interest your son, send his metrics and video if you have it, and ask them where your son can get in front of them.  Or, even better, tell them you are playing in XXX tournaments and thinking about attending XXX events, ask if they will be there.  They may well just say "come to our camp," but they may also tell you of particular showcases or tournaments where they will be.  If he is interested in out-of-state HA, then Headfirst or Showball are expensive but worth it.

@Miller2020 posted:

@anotherparent. Thank you.  This seems to be exactly what I am seeing and hearing.  If you are not a D1 level player (my son is not), the events where they are only for getting updated metrics are not worth it.  PBR showcases with college coaches of all levels attending, may be worth it.  I will keep checking to see if they offer these kind of showcases as we get through spring.  He is mostly interested in schools outside of PA anyways,  so I will continue checking other PBR state sites too...   

On PBR NY's website they put up a list of schools that were watching their streams (assuming they are basing this on which schools paid)

https://docs.google.com/spread...7641&single=true

There are many PA schools in that list.

@Miller2020 I would follow the advice given by many above. For reference I have a 2022 so am in a somewhat similar spot.

PBR here in MN is the only game in town for verifiable metrics (have to go to IA or WI to get Perfect Game stuff but costs minimum of $500 to get a somewhat similar product imo). PBR here costs ~ $275-$350. There are some coaches from D2/D3/JUCO's that are working or wandering around watching players at the same time.

The metrics they offer is different for Pitchers and position players. Many guys do a Pitcher/other combo or a 2 position combo. Generally costs another $25-$50 to add a  secondary position. Metrics for P are velo and movement for different pitches (done via Trackman and a radar gun in some cases) and the hitting metrics are a combo of Trackman and Blast.

Other data is a 60 time, positional velo (OF/IF/C), exit velo off a tee, and they will also do a fairly boilerplate evaluation (by boilerplate I mean that many terms like "athletic frame, consistent hands, clean exchange, average footwork, pull side approach, etc." to do their best to describe your kid. There also is a video montage of your kid running the 60, 4-6 swings, and his positional fielding and throwing. This video is available for coaches/programs/individuals that have a paid account.

I think that doing a PBR sort of lets local D2/D3/JUCO's know that your kid is interested in playing in college. The recruiting landscape appears to be really unique right now. We do it so my kid has some verifiable metrics along with video. This allows us to add a link of his profile when he reaches out to coaches outside of our state. Our hope is that he has the measurables to at least be in the conversation at some of his target schools which will then watch him at a tourney, in a camp environment, or request more video to see more of him. I would encourage you to manage your expectations on what PBR will do for your son other than provide data for him/others to use as a tool in his process. Hope this helps.

@used2lurk posted:

@Miller2020 I would follow the advice given by many above. For reference I have a 2022 so am in a somewhat similar spot.

PBR here in MN is the only game in town for verifiable metrics (have to go to IA or WI to get Perfect Game stuff but costs minimum of $500 to get a somewhat similar product imo). PBR here costs ~ $275-$350. There are some coaches from D2/D3/JUCO's that are working or wandering around watching players at the same time.

The metrics they offer is different for Pitchers and position players. Many guys do a Pitcher/other combo or a 2 position combo. Generally costs another $25-$50 to add a  secondary position. Metrics for P are velo and movement for different pitches (done via Trackman and a radar gun in some cases) and the hitting metrics are a combo of Trackman and Blast.

Other data is a 60 time, positional velo (OF/IF/C), exit velo off a tee, and they will also do a fairly boilerplate evaluation (by boilerplate I mean that many terms like "athletic frame, consistent hands, clean exchange, average footwork, pull side approach, etc." to do their best to describe your kid. There also is a video montage of your kid running the 60, 4-6 swings, and his positional fielding and throwing. This video is available for coaches/programs/individuals that have a paid account.

I think that doing a PBR sort of lets local D2/D3/JUCO's know that your kid is interested in playing in college. The recruiting landscape appears to be really unique right now. We do it so my kid has some verifiable metrics along with video. This allows us to add a link of his profile when he reaches out to coaches outside of our state. Our hope is that he has the measurables to at least be in the conversation at some of his target schools which will then watch him at a tourney, in a camp environment, or request more video to see more of him. I would encourage you to manage your expectations on what PBR will do for your son other than provide data for him/others to use as a tool in his process. Hope this helps.

At PBR are exit velo and blast metrics done using a standard (PBR provided) wood bat, your wood bat or is it your BBCOR? Is it off a tee or a pitched ball?

@fly996. The few PBR scout day events my son did, they allowed you to use your own BBCOR or wood bat.  I have seen some done via a tee and others soft toss.  So if you go to an event and they are doing the metrics off a tee, I would assume you could be at a disadvantage??

@fly996 At the MN PBR (and many from what I have seen via twitter and their site) one can use wood or BBCOR. We had a specific email prior to last summers event that there was a certain "hot" bat that was not going to be allowed at the event (cant recall what bat it was but had been recently mentioned as illegal).

There is both a tee velo station (where the kids get in a line and then warm up off a tee prior to hitting for velo in front of a PBR rep) and then the kids move to another line that is prior to hitting off a live BP pitcher. The tee velo appears to be some dude behind a net or screen shooting either a pocket radar or a stalker or something like that (not a great measurement or consistently accurate IMO). The BP velo is via Trackman. I personally am thankful for the Trackman feature as it appears to be more consistent and accurate across the country. My kid has not trained specifically to hit for velo off a tee. There absolutely are some kids that have trained specifically for exit velo off a tee and swings that naturally are better for velo off a tee. Notice that there is not video of kids hitting off a tee. Some of the swings I have seen over the couple I have attended are very different than BP or game swings.

The one event from PG my son attended in February of 2020 was ONLY velo off a tee and everyone had to use the same wood bat (but chose their own bat length). I appreciate the consistency with the bats but again dont like it off a tee. It is one data point but until they allow tees in game I think it is a not as good a metric as the trackman max exit velo and average exit velo. Son took 7 swings in BP portion at last PBR.

Based on Miller2020 and used2lurk responses, it seems like it would be difficult to rely on PBR hitting numbers due to the multitude of variables?

To me, exit velo is one thing, but there is a lot more that goes into hitting.  I don't think a coach would give much credit to just exit Velo without seeing a kid hit in games.  

@fly996 posted:

Based on Miller2020 and used2lurk responses, it seems like it would be difficult to rely on PBR hitting numbers due to the multitude of variables?

I believe that you misinterpreted what I had to say (in my longwinded way). While there are more variables one needs to ask or prioritize the variables being measured. How relevant are they? Opinion alert!!!

1. Clearly seeing kids in person is the best way to recruit but that aint happening much these days...especially from D1.

2. Exit velo off a tee IMO is not the best way to measure a kids hitting. Trackman (or rhapsodo if some org measures that way), especially over a larger sample size of swings is better. If my memory is correct PG was 2 swings off a tee measured for velo from Pocket Radar (only) along with a diamond kinetics measuring tool. Everything hitting related from data that is measured at Perfect Game is based on hitting a ball off a tee as hard as you can. While there are more variables with overhand BP (speed variability along with pitch location) at least a kid has 7 swings and the swing is more like a game type swing than taking a daddy-hack on a non moving ball. I think that comparing a max EV off BP along with the average EV could be helpful along with the Blast metrics hitting a moving ball. Would love to hear some opinions on the merit of both from people in the know.

3. I would guess that prior to making offers and initiating contact many r/c's and coaches want to know that a kids metrics are somewhat in line with what they recruit or know. Arm velo of at least XX mph, exit velo of at least XX velo, 60 time of X.XX or lower, all while seeing how a kid moves. On the pitching end of things velo matters, along with spin rate and movement. PBR & PG can do those type of things in each case. Any outlier type measurables are just another reason to maybe look closer at a kid.

This topic has been covered many times.

PBR is franchised and their metrics collection is not standardized nationally. Not even within the franchises. Sometimes exit velocity is BBCOR and sometimes wood. Sometimes metrics are denoted as wood--although no way for coaches to determine this when searching the PBR database, Same with the other metrics. Sometimes 60's are laser timed but most times not (equipment is not there). Lots of throwing metrics are recorded at indoor events; perhaps not a big deal but in my opinion OF velocity is not accurate indoors (too short of a throw).

PG is standardized nationally. While some metrics are collected at indoor events, they don't come close to the vast majority of collected metrics. They always user laser times, they always use wood bats, and they always follow the same showcase format.

As far as value is concerned, you'll get responses on both sides of the coin. If you have metrics that you think compare to top metrics nationally, you'll get a lot of mileage out of showcases. That was my son's goal and he used it as a way to make sure his metrics ALWAYS improved at every showcase he attended. And eventually his metrics compared very well with the top metrics nationally for his position. For kids like this, where getting an invite to the PBR Future Games, PG Junior National and/or PG National are goals, the showcases will help validate their personal growth. And in doing so, provides exposure for them. Just understand this is only one form of exposure; there are plenty of kids committing to big D1 programs who have attended zero showcases.

If you don't have metrics in the top 30% then I suppose a showcase (at PBR or PG) may not be the best use of funds except to provide some initial data for you to use and to improve upon. So not necessarily a waste. That is up to the player. Somebody has to provide the other 70% in the metric results!

IMO the only reason to do a PBR showcase as a hitter is to qualify for an event with games (state games or future games) where coaches can see you.