Perfect Game left LakePoint?

If your information goes back to June Lakepoint has filed Chapter 11/ reorganization. Lakepoint will still be there next year. If PG has a lease chances are they will be there unless there’s a legal reason for termination. As a corporate sponsor who invested a lot of money on the development its in PG’s best interest to stay.

No. This is new. I heard that PG didn't renew their lease. I went to PG website and can't find any events at Lakepoint after Oct 2018, nothing for 2019 

I just don’t think they have posted the 2019 schedule yet.

atlnon posted:

I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint.  Anyone heard this news?

It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint.  There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.  

CaCO3Girl posted:

atlnon posted:

I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint.  Anyone heard this news?

It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint.  There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.  

Including LakePoint, which really is only 8 fields. The concept of 300+ team tournaments is stupid. What's the point in having that many teams in one tournament? To provide a platform for players? Those tournaments have over 7,000 players at them each week, and schools are going to recruit based on lists they likely have already formed. The chances of being noticed if you aren't already communicating with them is like finding a needle in a haystack. A tournament that size is...well... stupid IMO

GaryMe posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

atlnon posted:

I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint.  Anyone heard this news?

It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint.  There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.  

Including LakePoint, which really is only 8 fields. The concept of 300+ team tournaments is stupid. What's the point in having that many teams in one tournament? To provide a platform for players? Those tournaments have over 7,000 players at them each week, and schools are going to recruit based on lists they likely have already formed. The chances of being noticed if you aren't already communicating with them is like finding a needle in a haystack. A tournament that size is...well... stupid IMO

There aren't that many 300+ team tourneys, but several 100+ team tourneys.  Yes, Lakepoint is 8 fields (TURF FIELDS that you can play on rain or shine), with 50+ high schools within an hour of it and enough hotels to supper 1000 teams.

Personally, I like going to the PG games because the competition is better.  While there is the occasional crazy team that can't field a ball, usually the teams coming in are pretty good, and MUCH better than the local teams that are formed to play in triple crown things.

GaryMe posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

atlnon posted:

I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint.  Anyone heard this news?

It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint.  There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.  

Including LakePoint, which really is only 8 fields. The concept of 300+ team tournaments is stupid. What's the point in having that many teams in one tournament? To provide a platform for players? Those tournaments have over 7,000 players at them each week, and schools are going to recruit based on lists they likely have already formed. The chances of being noticed if you aren't already communicating with them is like finding a needle in a haystack. A tournament that size is...well... stupid IMO

I know, how can you possibly be seen ...     Kidding... I get your point.  But it's not ALL bad.

“Perfect Game agreed, at an undisclosed price, to a 20-year lease at that baseball complex.”

https://www.news-press.com/sto...s-millions/85920274/

it is possible Chapter 11 affects the lease.

cabbagedad posted:

GaryMe posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

atlnon posted:

I heard a rumor that Perfect Game has pulled out of LakePoint.  Anyone heard this news?

It makes no sense for them to leave Lakepoint.  There aren't many places nationally that can support a 300+ team tournament.  

Including LakePoint, which really is only 8 fields. The concept of 300+ team tournaments is stupid. What's the point in having that many teams in one tournament? To provide a platform for players? Those tournaments have over 7,000 players at them each week, and schools are going to recruit based on lists they likely have already formed. The chances of being noticed if you aren't already communicating with them is like finding a needle in a haystack. A tournament that size is...well... stupid IMO

I know, how can you possibly be seen ...     Kidding... I get your point.  But it's not ALL bad.

You are being disingenuous, CabbageDad. That is a photo from Jupiter, not a lakepoint event. The tournament is played on a much smaller scale and held at the Roger Dean complex. Much easier to consolidate the “watchers” when the players are in one fish bowl. That is likely why you see so many in the photo. Btw, 88 teams at this week’s event, not nearly the size of a WWBA 17u, 16U, 15U...which annually draw 300+ teams.

I recall son throwing against EvoSheild on that field with that kind of crowd....there  to see EvoSheild players and Soroka.

Yes, Gary, as I said, was kidding and largely agree with your point.  Just used the image as comic relief and a general visual that scouts do attend the better, bigger tourneys.  I wasn't after historical accuracy.  Again, I understand the challenges when facilities are spread out all over, away from the primary complex.  

BTW, didn't we play together on that prison team?

cabbagedad posted:

Yes, Gary, as I said, was kidding and largely agree with your point.  Just used the image as comic relief and a general visual that scouts do attend the better, bigger tourneys.  I wasn't after historical accuracy.  Again, I understand the challenges when facilities are spread out all over, away from the primary complex.  

BTW, didn't we play together on that prison team?

Yeah, we DH'd for your sorry butt

Good to know that the rumors aren't true. I love LakePoint and looking forward to the next several years of watching my son play there.

atlnon posted:

Good to know that the rumors aren't true. I love LakePoint and looking forward to the next several years of watching my son play there.

He will play few games there, and honestly...it's just a ballpark with a snack bar, etc...and you will pay parking and entrance fee for the honor of seeing him play. Have fun...just another way PG and LakePoint are helping families realize the dream of playing at the next level.

Won't see this picture this year.  They banned the golf carts from behind the fences.  They can ride from field to field but cannot drive them in between fields like they used to, at least that was the word at Cardinals section.  They had big gates up to make sure golf carts did not get into the area behind home plate.  It was kinda disappointing but did not affect anything.  At one point there were 51 pro scouts and over 20 college scouts watching sons game yesterday. 

Was never a fan of that place or the WWBA tournaments that we did there for 3 years..glad we are done with it..always felt that southern players were favored by recruiters over the northern boys..that kind of bias is still alive and well with southern school no matter what anyone says..the numbers prove it too..just look at the rosters.

all schools favor kids closer to them...it's everywhere, and most people know schools recruit regionally.

Not true..the south has an inherent bias..it's political to this day.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Not true..the south has an inherent bias..it's political to this day.

Pay 25K for an out of stater, pay 7K for an in stater.

no brainer 

Even if the costs were the same the southern schools will still massively recruit southern players...If you don't think there is still a north/south issue on the part of southern schools then I beg to differ...it's real to this day..especially in the state schools in all sports.

well, I guess you don't need to worry about those southerner's creeping up into your neck of the woods to steal away those prime spots in the snow...ever think that perhaps the southern kids are wanting to stay close to home?

CaCO3Girl posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

Not true..the south has an inherent bias..it's political to this day.

Pay 25K for an out of stater, pay 7K for an in stater.

no brainer 

IMO, with baseball it's kind of the opposite. Schools don't "pay" more for out-of-state kids. They aren't paying the OOS student $25K, they're giving him a credit of $25K towards an "inflated" OOS tuition. The school incurs the same classroom expenses for in-state and out-of-state students. With so many partial scholarships, you could make the case that they're losing revenue by recruiting in-state, since most baseball players will have to pay a significant portion of their OOS tuition and fees.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Even if the costs were the same the southern schools will still massively recruit southern players...If you don't think there is still a north/south issue on the part of southern schools then I beg to differ...it's real to this day..especially in the state schools in all sports.

I think most schools tend to focus their recruiting on their local region (HA being the glaring exception). Look at CA, Midwest, Northeast rosters. Some exceptions, but most kids are in-state or from nearby states. I think it's mostly about getting eyes on the kids as many times as possible, and also about the fear of kids who are a long way from home getting homesick and/or leaving.

Well stated Mid Atlantic Dad..furthermore I had a recent conversation with a coach from a southern school who told me they are under political pressure to recruit southern players..he had no reason to lie to me and I thanked him for his honesty..we moved on.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Well stated Mid Atlantic Dad..furthermore I had a recent conversation with a coach from a southern school who told me they are under political pressure to recruit southern players..he had no reason to lie to me and I thanked him for his honesty..we moved on.

I can understand that. In-state kids' parents are paying taxes that help support those schools.

and if you are wanting to draw any kind of a crowd to the games, who would they rather come see play? Local kids, ok course.

Rhode Island HS outfielder attends an non-PG Showcase/Tourney at UCF with a 17u team from Tampa; gets recruited by one of the Top SEC teams; goes to Ohmaha 2x; Not recruited by any Regional Teams.

Hint: NE players who want to be seen by southern schools MUST Join Good Southern Teams. They play in more events in their region. 

That’s where the eyes are. 

Bottom Line: players Must Be Seen.

I don’t want to hear about money and travel, because your already sipping the tea.

Hot beds, like Texas, Fla, Ga, Ala...imo (and experience), didn't need to go much beyond their borders to find talent. When son was recruited, it was primarily schools in our (large) backyard (Tx, Okla, Ark, Ala, Ga)...don't think it was politics...it was/is  talent & budget concerns...Many of the HC & RC's have followed or seen these kids frequently over the years...and have relationships with HS coaches, AD's etc. 

CatcherDadNY posted:

Even if the costs were the same the southern schools will still massively recruit southern players...If you don't think there is still a north/south issue on the part of southern schools then I beg to differ...it's real to this day..especially in the state schools in all sports.

All things equal (talent) any program anywhere will recruit the local/regional kid. Aside from cost and fan appeal there’s less risk if the player getting homesick and leaving. 

Vanderbilt recruits plenty of northeast players. The year they won the CWS their ace, #2, closer and cleanup hitter were all from Massachusetts. 

High Academic Schools with a 70k tab are outliers for this discussion.

plus Corbin gets the best of the best of the best.

its critical that families know the real talent level of their son. It save a lot of time in the process.

Be careful when using Vanderbilt for purposes of illustrating a southern school that recruits northern ballplayers...they are national power that casts a wide net by design..some of you folks are in denial in regards to how deep southern bias is against the north in all manner of things even in this day and age..

CatcherDadNY posted:

Be careful when using Vanderbilt for purposes of illustrating a southern school that recruits northern ballplayers...they are national power that casts a wide net by design..some of you folks are in denial in regards to how deep southern bias is against the north in all manner of things even in this day and age..

I live in GA....I don’t see it. Especially since most people that live here are from the north...or at least it seems that way 🤣

We’re talking about coaches with six figure incomes they protect by winning. I don’t believe they care where players come from as long as they are the most talented and fit in the budget athletically and academically.

Also, most of the southern states have academic assistance programs where a kid goes to college tuition free if he maintains a B average in high school. Talk about saving money recruiting in state kids! Talk about having athletic money to divide up without having to provide support for tuition! 

It’s about recruiting locally (most colleges do for the most part), local players the local fans can relate to, players less likely to be so far from home they get homesick and finances. It’s not about the Civil War.

There are plenty of places in the South now if you go back three generations you find a northerner.

CatcherDadNY posted:

Was never a fan of that place or the WWBA tournaments that we did there for 3 years..glad we are done with it..always felt that southern players were favored by recruiters over the northern boys..that kind of bias is still alive and well with southern school no matter what anyone says..the numbers prove it too..just look at the rosters.

Or there is no bias and southern players are better

How many kids get drafted from Georgia, FL, TX? How many get drafted from NJ, NY, PA? Most players taken in the MLB draft are from Southern Cal. Is there a bias in the MLB draft? The top kids from the north can compete with the top kids from the south, we've all seen it. But I can confidently say that there are more quality players in the southern states than the northern states. I'm sure the average hs game in Georgia is going to look a lot different than the average game in Delaware. 

PABaseball posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

Was never a fan of that place or the WWBA tournaments that we did there for 3 years..glad we are done with it..always felt that southern players were favored by recruiters over the northern boys..that kind of bias is still alive and well with southern school no matter what anyone says..the numbers prove it too..just look at the rosters.

Or there is no bias and southern players are better

How many kids get drafted from Georgia, FL, TX? How many get drafted from NJ, NY, PA? Most players taken in the MLB draft are from Southern Cal. Is there a bias in the MLB draft? The top kids from the north can compete with the top kids from the south, we've all seen it. But I can confidently say that there are more quality players in the southern states than the northern states. I'm sure the average hs game in Georgia is going to look a lot different than the average game in Delaware. 

 

Props to Illinois.

http://www.baseball-almanac.co...irthplace.php?y=2018

Make sense to me, what with the War of Northern Agression and all..... lol 

It's similar to the bias in hockey in favor of Canadians, Minnesotans, and Michiganders.

I think it's a little of both.  No doubt the climate leads to generally better baseball down south.  But with indoor facilities the gap has narrowed considerably yet the scouts still will favor the south.  Killing more birds with one stone.    I was not at all in awe of the southern teams at the WWBA.  Our good teams from Wisconsin (which we were not one) acquitted themselves very well.  Even us who sucked were competitive in all but one game.  

As for the price difference I believe Caco mentioned that higher amount for out of state while yes is a credit it is held against the baseball budget.  So yes 50% to a Northern player costs the budget more than 50% for a southern player.  

Still a lot of scouts at the WWBA but to answer the north -south debate, I MO Coaches do not care they are paid to win! My son plays on a team from The one kid going to Purdue, 3 going to Xavier didn't seem to matter where they were from!

The southern coaches may not care where the recruit comes from but you best believe that the AD and Administration cares..I've been told that from several Southern school coaches who were scouting my son...Administration reviews who the coaches want to bring in and will question the AD in no uncertain terms why they can't find a local southern kid...they get questioned by alumni and donors who strongly advocate for southern kids...it's a big factor..if you don't understand this or have some sort of denial mechanism going on then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in the process.. I'm referring to the southern state schools...don't bother citing the Vanderbilts of the world. 

CatcherDadNY posted:

The southern coaches may not care where the recruit comes from but you best believe that the AD and Administration cares..I've been told that from several Southern school coaches who were scouting my son...Administration reviews who the coaches want to bring in and will question the AD in no uncertain terms why they can't find a local southern kid...they get questioned by alumni and donors who strongly advocate for southern kids...it's a big factor..if you don't understand this or have some sort of denial mechanism going on then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in the process.. I'm referring to the southern state schools...don't bother citing the Vanderbilts of the world. 

I don't buy that.  Southern AD's and administrators, specifically the SEC,  want to win.  They don't care where a recruit comes from in any sport if they can help them win.  Sports are really important in the South.  Winning trumps everything.  Arkansas had players from CA, CO, NJ, IL, IA, MO, KS, TX, OK.  Mississippi State has players from Canada, IL, IN, WI, and a signee from NJ.  

Ask a Bama alumni if they care where a football recruit comes from.   

Really?...if you are going to cite Alabama then have a look at their current football roster...QED.

 http://www.secsports.com/roste...alabama-crimson-tide

D Mac my take on what people are talking about is more the average player on a roster or even more so lower roster kids.  And yes it makes sense.  Why take an out of stater for your 28th roster spot??   Doesn't make sense. Both from a financial and home sick standpoint.  I think we all agree if a kid is throwing 95 he can go wherever he wants and nobody will care if he is out of state.  

And be careful when citing Arkansas and a NJ recruit...out of 41 rostered players he was the only one with a Northeast connection and he actually played a good part of his HS at IMG in Florida. 

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks....ort/m-basebl/roster/ 

CatcherDadNY posted:

Really?...if you are going to cite Alabama then have a look at their current football roster...QED.

 http://www.secsports.com/roste...alabama-crimson-tide

How many Northern kids really want to go to Alabama?   Yes I am serious.  For us northerners the sun doesn't rise and set over the SEC.  If my son (football player) were of that caliber (he is not) top three choices would be Wisconsin, Michigan and Notre Dame.  Alabama not so much.   There are a lot of reasons kids pick schools.  And it's not always cause they are the 'top dog'.  So while I do generally agree with you there is some bias I think we also have to say there are other factors as well.  

2020dad posted:

D Mac my take on what people are talking about is more the average player on a roster or even more so lower roster kids.  And yes it makes sense.  Why take an out of stater for your 28th roster spot??   Doesn't make sense. Both from a financial and home sick standpoint.  I think we all agree if a kid is throwing 95 he can go wherever he wants and nobody will care if he is out of state.  

In state kid, sure. Local Southern kid? No way. Do you think Arkansas alumni/adminstrators are going to put pressure on a coach to take a kid from Texas over a kid from New Jersey?   That’s what I was replying to. Every baseball program is going to have a base of in state kids.  The rest are going to be comprised of kids who can help the program win regardless of where they live.  I’m referring to the Southern programs that recruit nationally. 

Understood,..but that is a separate issue not germane to my point...you cited Alabama and Arkansas in your reply, however the facts don't support your assertion...to the contrary, the rosters show an overwhelming preponderance toward southern recruits and a demonstrable lack of northern recruits..therefore a reasonable argument can be made that supports what I was told by several southern state school coaches..they have to deal with political pressure when they recruit players..northern coaches are not constricted in that manner...look at the rosters in all sports...they are loaded with southern players at northern schools..a lot of the being transfers..it's the dirty little secret and if you have a player that is going through the process it is better that you understand this..I'm not saying it's wrong...but I am calling out those who are denying such. 

In State recruiters see the in state stock earlier and more often.

johnny played for a SEC powerhouse from 2013-2017 that had 5-8 out of towners (generally pitchers; although he was OF from a NE Prep).

Top SEC/ACC schools will take the best of the best, but have so much talent in state that the rosters lean toward in state.

iMO, more looks over a longer period playing against better HS pitching .

If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't...pitchers are outliers and always will have separate tracks...we don't live in an altruistic world where decisions are made in a vacuum..every recruit decision gets scrutinized by several people at different levels..if you think a coach makes that decision on his own then he better be Urban Meyer.   

CatcherDadNY posted:

If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't...pitchers are outliers and always will have separate tracks...we don't live in an altruistic world where decisions are made in a vacuum..every recruit decision gets scrutinized by several people at different levels..if you think a coach makes that decision on his own then he better be Urban Meyer.   

In baseball they do. 2018 MLB draft picks by conference:

• SEC: 99
• ACC: 75
• Pac 12: 49
• Big 12: 45
• B1G: 37
• Big East: 17
• Atlantic 10: 12
• America East: 7
• MAAC: 5
• Northeast Conf: 5

174 for SEC/ACC vs 167 for the others cited is nearly equal.

CatcherDadNY posted:

174 for SEC/ACC vs 167 for the others cited is nearly equal.

LOL, you said that the SEC/ACC would have a number "far above that of northern schools" . . . didn't realize you were counting the PAC12 and Big 12 in the "northern schools." 

PAC 12 is not southern...Big 12 has Texas...WV and Oklahoma depend on how one defines southern...and your point is?

CatcherDadNY posted:

PAC 12 is not southern...Big 12 has Texas...WV and Oklahoma depend on how one defines southern...and your point is?

You said: "If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't"

My point is, in baseball, they do. I don't know about other sports.

This thread is funny.  It’s got nothing to do with north vs south.  Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois.  Gee, not one Florida kid???  For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!

The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.

d-mac posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

The southern coaches may not care where the recruit comes from but you best believe that the AD and Administration cares..I've been told that from several Southern school coaches who were scouting my son...Administration reviews who the coaches want to bring in and will question the AD in no uncertain terms why they can't find a local southern kid...they get questioned by alumni and donors who strongly advocate for southern kids...it's a big factor..if you don't understand this or have some sort of denial mechanism going on then you are putting yourself at a disadvantage in the process.. I'm referring to the southern state schools...don't bother citing the Vanderbilts of the world. 

I don't buy that.  Southern AD's and administrators, specifically the SEC,  want to win.  They don't care where a recruit comes from in any sport if they can help them win.  Sports are really important in the South.  Winning trumps everything.  Arkansas had players from CA, CO, NJ, IL, IA, MO, KS, TX, OK.  Mississippi State has players from Canada, IL, IN, WI, and a signee from NJ.  

Ask a Bama alumni if they care where a football recruit comes from.   

You aren't comparing Alabama football to any college baseball program are you? Virtually every school in the country would cut the baseball program overnight to become Alabama football. They would drop it completely and honor all expenses for the next several years to clean the books and then go have a party in the Presidents house!!

Alabama football will do what it damn well pleases within very large open boundaries and Alabama baseball will follow orders inside much smaller ones.

2019Dad posted:

CatcherDadNY posted:

If the SEC/ACC only recruit the best talent then they would have a overwhelming record of athletes in all sports that go on to play at the pro level, far above that of northern schools, which they don't...pitchers are outliers and always will have separate tracks...we don't live in an altruistic world where decisions are made in a vacuum..every recruit decision gets scrutinized by several people at different levels..if you think a coach makes that decision on his own then he better be Urban Meyer.   

In baseball they do. 2018 MLB draft picks by conference:

• SEC: 99
• ACC: 75
• Pac 12: 49
• Big 12: 45
• B1G: 37
• Big East: 17
• Atlantic 10: 12
• America East: 7
• MAAC: 5
• Northeast Conf: 5

 

Hrumpf, Fuzzy Math.

CaCO3Girl posted:

This thread is funny.  It’s got nothing to do with north vs south.  Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois.  Gee, not one Florida kid???  For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!

The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.

But we DO discriminate like that!   Us Yankees want to keep y'all down there where you belong - not up here in gods country!!   

Again it's some of both.  If you have a climate which allows you to play way more baseball than another climate it stands to reason that player A from the south and Player B from Gods country who both have the same God given talent...   player A will become better cause he had better opportunities.   Then because there ARE more good players per capita in the south the perception and reality become muddled.  So then yes I do believe some better Northern kids get snubbed because some southern kid gets the benefit of perception.  Or maybe the benefit of more scouts seeing him cause they are scouting the hotbeds.  Plus baseball minded people often move south and breed better baseball players.  If you don't believe in DNA's role...   I can't help you.  So I think everybody is a little bit right here.  

2020DAD,

I thought God's Country was Texas?  Now there is a bias for ya! 

FriarFred posted:

2020DAD,

I thought God's Country was Texas?  Now there is a bias for ya! 

God’s country is North Carolina. It’s why he painted the sky Carolina blue.

Kids who love sports in general (not necessarily going to compete at the college level) love the atmosphere at the SEC games. My son had a kid from his HS go to Clemson this year just because he wanted to have that "big school" experience and it was much easier to get into than the big-time in-state programs in our state.

Alabama football also has this effect, along with Duke and NC basketball. Kids want a great college experience and when they see the student body sections on TV, that helps drive their decision making.

2020dad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

This thread is funny.  It’s got nothing to do with north vs south.  Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois.  Gee, not one Florida kid???  For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!

The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.

But we DO discriminate like that!   Us Yankees want to keep y'all down there where you belong - not up here in gods country!!   

Again it's some of both.  If you have a climate which allows you to play way more baseball than another climate it stands to reason that player A from the south and Player B from Gods country who both have the same God given talent...   player A will become better cause he had better opportunities.   Then because there ARE more good players per capita in the south the perception and reality become muddled.  So then yes I do believe some better Northern kids get snubbed because some southern kid gets the benefit of perception.  Or maybe the benefit of more scouts seeing him cause they are scouting the hotbeds.  Plus baseball minded people often move south and breed better baseball players.  If you don't believe in DNA's role...   I can't help you.  So I think everybody is a little bit right here.  

I think the other factor -- impossible to measure -- is "what portion of a region's best athletes play the sport?" I have heard from Minnesotans that their best athletes play hockey. I know in SoCal, quite a few of the best athletes play baseball. Not sure that's the case equally around the country. Climate might influence it, but climate isn't the only thing (e.g., basketball in Indiana).

CatcherDadNY posted:

Understood,..but that is a separate issue not germane to my point...you cited Alabama and Arkansas in your reply, however the facts don't support your assertion...to the contrary, the rosters show an overwhelming preponderance toward southern recruits and a demonstrable lack of northern recruits..therefore a reasonable argument can be made that supports what I was told by several southern state school coaches..they have to deal with political pressure when they recruit players..northern coaches are not constricted in that manner...look at the rosters in all sports...they are loaded with southern players at northern schools..a lot of the being transfers..it's the dirty little secret and if you have a player that is going through the process it is better that you understand this..I'm not saying it's wrong...but I am calling out those who are denying such. 

Southern players are better. More southern players being on the rosters of the best teams in the nation would be the facts to back that claim up. The ACC/SEC having the same number of players drafted as the next 8 conferences would be the facts.

The only job these coaches have are to win and if they're not winning to get their kids drafted. The president of UF doesn't tell the coach he can't go to Diamond Nation in NJ to recruit. He just doesn't need to. Why? Because for every kid in NJ/NY/CT/PA/DE over 90mph, there are 10 in Florida. That is why mid majors in the south are good at baseball. There is more talent than there are schools in the south.

2019 was recruited by a few southern schools. He had no interest. Didn't want to play/live 12 hours from home. Didn't want to take 3 days off school to visit each campus. Things like this factor into it as well.  

2019Dad posted:

2020dad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

This thread is funny.  It’s got nothing to do with north vs south.  Pull up a roster in Wisconsin, most kids are from Wisconsin and Illinois.  Gee, not one Florida kid???  For shame!!!! The northern schools shouldn’t discriminate like that!

The majority of kids go to school within two hours of their house, whether they play baseball or not.

But we DO discriminate like that!   Us Yankees want to keep y'all down there where you belong - not up here in gods country!!   

Again it's some of both.  If you have a climate which allows you to play way more baseball than another climate it stands to reason that player A from the south and Player B from Gods country who both have the same God given talent...   player A will become better cause he had better opportunities.   Then because there ARE more good players per capita in the south the perception and reality become muddled.  So then yes I do believe some better Northern kids get snubbed because some southern kid gets the benefit of perception.  Or maybe the benefit of more scouts seeing him cause they are scouting the hotbeds.  Plus baseball minded people often move south and breed better baseball players.  If you don't believe in DNA's role...   I can't help you.  So I think everybody is a little bit right here.  

I think the other factor -- impossible to measure -- is "what portion of a region's best athletes play the sport?" I have heard from Minnesotans that their best athletes play hockey. I know in SoCal, quite a few of the best athletes play baseball. Not sure that's the case equally around the country. Climate might influence it, but climate isn't the only thing (e.g., basketball in Indiana).

Really good point 2019!

I know Wisconsin is Gods country cause I saw it stated on a beer commercial when I was a kid!   Hamm's I believe!!!   They can't lie in commercials or it would be false advertising!!

correction.  It was old style!

Is there new information or more people hearing the old information?

Starting to see the speculation in other baseball message boards, now with some more additional details and that some upcoming PG tournaments originally planned for LakePoint going to be held now in Birmingham AL.

Why would PG leave LP?

The only reason I can see to leave would be if the threat of loss of access or loss of control to guarantee the programs you are selling all summer are able to move forward. 

I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint.  If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away? 

atlnon posted:

I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint.  If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away? 

The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.

Don't know if this in anyway related....but I have a friend whose son (14ish) has played  PG tournaments in Birmingham all fall.    Before posting I went and looked up facilities and see that Bham (Hoover) has upped the ante on whats available.  There are also several highschools within 10 miles of this facility.  (PLUS traffic would be a whole lot less of a hassle!).   This is where the SEC baseball tournament is played.  

BASEBALL FIELDS

OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:

• Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
  • Four (4) artificial turf fields
  • One (1) natural grass field

Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.

For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.

CaCO3Girl posted:

atlnon posted:

I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint.  If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away? 

The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.

Are you saying that LakePoint has always planned on using bankruptcy to renegotiate their deals with PG (and other parties like vendors) from the very beginning? 

atlnon posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

atlnon posted:

I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint.  If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away? 

The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.

Are you saying that LakePoint has always planned on using bankruptcy to renegotiate their deals with PG (and other parties like vendors) from the very beginning? 

https://www.mdjonline.com/news...56-43d38feea3b8.html

“This is very much like what Delta’s gone through and some other large corporations when they reorganize with new dollars,” Ehrhart said. “In layman’s terms, it’s a prearranged reorganization, and those are done through the bankruptcy courts. … There’s still 2 million visitors a year coming through there.”

Likewise, the sports complex’s main investor, Rimrock Capital, said in a statement that the process, which the statement refers to as “recapitalization,” was planned and will make the complex more financially stable in the long run.

I'm not saying anything about PG.  I'm saying lakepoint is using a well known loophole, it was their plan B if things started to go sideways, and with projects like this they almost always go sideways.

CaCO3Girl posted:

atlnon posted:

I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint.  If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away? 

The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.

I seriously doubt if the original investors in LakePoint Land LLC ever envisioned getting involved with a private equity firm and losing their majority ownership.

MidAtlanticDad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

atlnon posted:

I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint.  If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away? 

The bankruptcy was a legal loophole Lakepoint always planned on taking advantage of.

I seriously doubt if the original investors in LakePoint Land LLC ever envisioned getting involved with a private equity firm and losing their majority ownership.

Agree to disagree on that one.  

This is a high end real life monopoly game.

Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event. 

IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event. 

IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds

“OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:

• Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
  • Four (4) artificial turf fields
  • One (1) natural grass field

Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.

For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.”

It’s not LP but I guess they can pull in high school fields as well. 

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event. 

IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds.

Unless another similar competitor in the marketplace who is willing to operate on thinner margins decides its worth the cost to rent the place. Let’s face it, finally for once, that the only people who made money on Lakepoint since it’s inceptio was PG due to their sweetheart deal. If that is gone, then we may see others using the venue.

hshuler posted:

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event. 

IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds

 

“OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:

• Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
  • Four (4) artificial turf fields
  • One (1) natural grass field

Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.

For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.”

It’s not LP but I guess they can pull in high school fields as well. 

Sounds like an SEC guy here.... hmmmm. 

Hope you’re doing well.

Won't miss the oppressive Georgia humidity with the inevitable afternoon violent thunderstorms featuring sideways lightning..and the 50 mile drives from the hotel in Atlanta traffic..one of the least interesting cities in the country with a poor urban design and massive sprawl.

CatcherDadNY, you seem like a pleasant guy. 

He’s right, though. Maybe now we will see some more regional events in the summer.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

hshuler posted:

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Hoover is no replacement for metro Atlanta considering how many other fields are required during a typical large PG event. 

IF PG is considering leaving and does, LP isn’t going to have a 10th of the visitors related to baseball. IMHO, it folds

 

“OPENING AUGUST 2018, The Hoover Met Complex’s state-of-art outdoor baseball complex features:

• Five (5) NCAA regulation-size baseball/softball fields:
  • Four (4) artificial turf fields
  • One (1) natural grass field

Each field is equipped with a scoreboard and LED field lighting, including 50-foot infield candles and 30-foot outfield candles.

For younger players, the four turf fields can be broken up at the corners, transforming them into eight regulation youth-size fields. Our facilities will also include ten (10) batting cages for athletes and coaches to reserve.”

It’s not LP but I guess they can pull in high school fields as well. 

Sounds like an SEC guy here.... hmmmm. 

Hope you’re doing well.

LoL 

All good here, my friend!

How are you guys?

FriarFred posted:

2020DAD,

I thought God's Country was Texas?  Now there is a bias for ya! 

It IS! 

I'm 6th generation Native born! So there you have it! Proof enough for me! 

atlnon posted:

I wonder what kind of deal PG has with LakePoint.  If PG has a very good deal, maybe LakePoint decided it gave away too much and they are not able to make a profit, hence the bankruptcy filing, and the filing allowed LakePoint to renegotiate causing PG to walk away? 

I believe PG has a very inexpensive twenty year lease after donating a lot of money to the construction. 

GaryMe posted:

He’s right, though. Maybe now we will see some more regional events in the summer.

There are two great events in the area that don’t involve PG and travel ... Select Fest in NJ and Atlantic 100 in PA. They’re top events requiring pro scout references. 

Birmingham could not handle the 17U WWBA so I don't see it happening.  If you think travel in Atlanta is bad try figuring out how far you would have to drive around Birmingham for motels or fields to handle the WWBA schedules.  2 hour drives could be in store.  Just to note, the weather in Birmingham is identical to Atlanta.  I see them taking some tournaments there but not moving.  They have a good thing.  Plus air travel would be a nightmare for Birmingham.  You talk about cost   It would go up and maybe double for some teams because you would still have to fly into atlanta and travel there.  Don't buy it.  Try another option.  I think the only other option would be Orlando, Dallas, or Charlotte areas.  But someone would have to build the facilities. 

And speaking of competition.  If PG is doing WWBA then people will go no matter where it is so you would have to beat that deal. 

PitchingFan posted:

Birmingham could not handle the 17U WWBA so I don't see it happening.  If you think travel in Atlanta is bad try figuring out how far you would have to drive around Birmingham for motels or fields to handle the WWBA schedules.  2 hour drives could be in store.  Just to note, the weather in Birmingham is identical to Atlanta.  I see them taking some tournaments there but not moving.  They have a good thing.  Plus air travel would be a nightmare for Birmingham.  You talk about cost   It would go up and maybe double for some teams because you would still have to fly into atlanta and travel there.  Don't buy it.  Try another option.  I think the only other option would be Orlando, Dallas, or Charlotte areas.  But someone would have to build the facilities. 

And speaking of competition.  If PG is doing WWBA then people will go no matter where it is so you would have to beat that deal. 

Pitchingfan, I agree that to have the WWBA in it's current state it would probably need to be held in a metropolitan area as you described, but with the advantages of field availability and lodging availability come the downside of traffic, increased expense for lodging due to being in a metro area, etc.

I don't think for a minute think that PG gives a modicum of thought as to the impact of where the event is played, airline hubs, etc as it relates to the teams. I really don't. I do however feel that PG would love to "grow the sport" (which means increase their revenue) and by not being tied to an 8-field complex in rural Georgia, they may be able to do that. Hell, LakePoint is 45 miles from Atlanta. Throw is ATL traffic and that is a freaking nightmare scenario, and that is only 8 of probably a hundred fields that they utilize...so leaving LakePoint itself is not a huge factor on the event. Leaving a metro area is more of an impact.

IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.  

PitchingFan posted:

Birmingham could not handle the 17U WWBA so I don't see it happening.  If you think travel in Atlanta is bad try figuring out how far you would have to drive around Birmingham for motels or fields to handle the WWBA schedules.  2 hour drives could be in store.  Just to note, the weather in Birmingham is identical to Atlanta.  I see them taking some tournaments there but not moving.  They have a good thing.  Plus air travel would be a nightmare for Birmingham.  You talk about cost   It would go up and maybe double for some teams because you would still have to fly into atlanta and travel there.  Don't buy it.  Try another option.  I think the only other option would be Orlando, Dallas, or Charlotte areas.  But someone would have to build the facilities. 

And speaking of competition.  If PG is doing WWBA then people will go no matter where it is so you would have to beat that deal. 

Birmingham does however has Dreamland BBQ and Niki's. 

russinfortworth posted:

PitchingFan posted:

Birmingham could not handle the 17U WWBA so I don't see it happening.  If you think travel in Atlanta is bad try figuring out how far you would have to drive around Birmingham for motels or fields to handle the WWBA schedules.  2 hour drives could be in store.  Just to note, the weather in Birmingham is identical to Atlanta.  I see them taking some tournaments there but not moving.  They have a good thing.  Plus air travel would be a nightmare for Birmingham.  You talk about cost   It would go up and maybe double for some teams because you would still have to fly into atlanta and travel there.  Don't buy it.  Try another option.  I think the only other option would be Orlando, Dallas, or Charlotte areas.  But someone would have to build the facilities. 

And speaking of competition.  If PG is doing WWBA then people will go no matter where it is so you would have to beat that deal. 

These facilities might work, with championship beingplayed @ Dr Pepper Ballpark, home of FriscoRoughRiders, Texas Rangers AA affiliate...And several "newish" HS fields in that neck of the woods...

http://www.theballfields.com/facility_layout.asp

https://www.milb.com/frisco/ballpark/ballpark

GaryMe posted:

IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.  

I don't think this is true. The original idea behind the WWBA was to get the top talent in one centralized location. I still think that is true now, even if 100 of the 400 teams stink, the top talent is still there. If you had regionals, the top schools and MLB scouts are still going to head to the Georgia. They might get more teams and more $$$, but the whole premise behind all these teams flocking to Lake Point is the idea that scouts will be there. There is a guarantee scouts will be in Georgia, no guarantee they'll be in MD or NJ.

I'm also not sure it is possible with all the kids playing on teams from all over the country. 

PABaseball posted:

GaryMe posted:

IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.  

I don't think this is true. The original idea behind the WWBA was to get the top talent in one centralized location. I still think that is true now, even if 100 of the 400 teams stink, the top talent is still there. If you had regionals, the top schools and MLB scouts are still going to head to the Georgia. They might get more teams and more $$$, but the whole premise behind all these teams flocking to Lake Point is the idea that scouts will be there. There is a guarantee scouts will be in Georgia, no guarantee they'll be in MD or NJ.

I'm also not sure it is possible with all the kids playing on teams from all over the country. 

That's precisely the point. My kid went to the WWBA his rising sophomore year with another team because his regular team did not attend the event because most of the families on his regular team didn't want to spend the $$$ to go. So, you may eliminate that scenario by hosting major regional events. Also, a few coaches I know who used to go to Georgia decided to stop going because their players were not interested in attending the schools they were getting interest from at the Georgia tournaments. Obviously, the schools were out of state and with that comes the added expense of OOS tuition.

Remember, schools tend to recruit regionally. By and large, team are taking players to Georgia and the WWBA for college exposure, not professional. Only about 300-400 high school players a year get drafted on average, so the argument that players need to go to Georgia for professional baseball exposure doesn't wash. In fact, the number of players being drafted out of high school has been on the decline for the past 5 years or so.

The only guarantees in life are death and taxes. I would never assume that a scout would not be in at a major regional event. Major events for draft prospects like Jupiter is where the pro scouts will definitely flock. Regional events make sense because schools recruit regionally for the most part. I stand by that.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. But the top players from NY, CT, NJ, PA, MA looking to play at ACC/SEC schools are still going to head south to play with/against the better talent where there will be more scouts (because the southern talent is better). 

The next tier of northern players thinking they can cut it at an SEC school will then follow once they realize Arkansas and LSU aren't showing up to the NY regional event. Now you're back to square one. 

PABaseball posted:

GaryMe posted:

IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.  

I don't think this is true. The original idea behind the WWBA was to get the top talent in one centralized location. I still think that is true now, even if 100 of the 400 teams stink, the top talent is still there. If you had regionals, the top schools and MLB scouts are still going to head to the Georgia. They might get more teams and more $$$, but the whole premise behind all these teams flocking to Lake Point is the idea that scouts will be there. There is a guarantee scouts will be in Georgia, no guarantee they'll be in MD or NJ.

I'm also not sure it is possible with all the kids playing on teams from all over the country. 

If we're talking about MLB scouts only, they're everywhere, at least at the lower levels. I can think of 4 or 5 just in the area I live in, and that's the ones I know about. My son got to know a very high-level scout well. Helped him chose a college. When the kid asked about exposer the guy told him, "if you're good it doesn't matter where you go, we'll find you". 

PG is a successful business. But there is no doubt in my mind that its market penetration in California, and more generally in the western half of the country, is far, far lower than it is in the eastern half, and particularly the southeast.  I think GaryMe's suggestion is a good one.

Maybe PG has determined that there is nothing it can do, that it can't provide enough of a differentiated product to California kids, since they have other exposure avenues perhaps not available in many parts of the country -- for example, significant scout ball in Sept & Oct., and even high school ball (I saw Keith Law say that Cole Winn made himself a lot of money, maybe an extra $1 million, by going to SoCal for his senior high school season). I don't know.

But I do know that the 17U WWBA had 392 teams and only 11 of them were from California, so less than 3%. In a sport where 20-25% of the U.S. talent seems to come from California (based on MLB draft), PG seems very under-penetrated in the West.

Edited to add: http://meadowparty.com/blog/20.../05/klawchat-6-5-18/

Allan: How much money did leaving Colorado make Cole Winn? 
Keith Law: Maybe a million bucks? Getting away from the altitude, and also moving to somewhere scouts would see him more often. 

WWBA Seattle Regional, WWBA Des Moines Regional, WWBA Lake Point Regional 

Where do you think the SEC/ACC schools and the MLB scouts will be? 

PABaseball posted:

WWBA Seattle Regional, WWBA Des Moines Regional, WWBA Lake Point Regional 

Where do you think the SEC/ACC schools and the MLB scouts will be? 

MLB scouts? They'd be at all the regionals where there are potential MLB draft picks. So . . . WWBA Los Angeles Regional, WWBA Houston Regional . . . maybe they would get a few MLB scouts, lol.

With respect to the SEC and ACC going to the Lakepoint Regional, that's sort of the point -- most schools recruit regionally. 

Edited to add: this might just be a regional thing. There are a huge number of kids for whom playing for the SEC/ACC teams is not the goal -- even if they are good enough to play there -- so getting in front of them is not the goal. Hence <3% of the teams are the WWBA are from California. GaryMe's proposal would give PG an avenue to reach (and of course make money from) many more kids. Even for the kids from the northeast, if they are not being completely delusional, a tiny percentage of them see themselves as future ACC/SEC players.

PABaseball posted:

WWBA Seattle Regional, WWBA Des Moines Regional, WWBA Lake Point Regional 

Where do you think the SEC/ACC schools and the MLB scouts will be? 

MLB scout have regions they cover. So every scout from their respective region would be at each regional. My understanding is it's a hierarchy. Lower level scouts find talent and pass them up the chain where they are weeded out as they go up to the higher levels. At the lowest level MLB scouts are everywhere. 

Lakepoint WWBA is a southern tournament largely for the benefit of southern recruits...mostly a waste of time for teams above the Mason Dixon line..I really don't care what others say..the best outcome would be for other regional tournaments to emerge and go from there.

PABaseball posted:

WWBA Seattle Regional, WWBA Des Moines Regional, WWBA Lake Point Regional 

Where do you think the SEC/ACC schools and the MLB scouts will be? 

They will be where the players are. That’s the way it works. They come to a ton of events all over the county. Baseball Recruiting is not one-stop shopping in atlanta GA!

First, that is ridiculous that WWBA is only for southern teams.  When you say the California teams/western teams are not coming is absurd.  The top teams are always there at WWBA from everywhere.  The top players that come get signed.  It is not a tournament and never has been a tournament for D2/D3/NAIA players.  That is part of the problem.  It was developed as a tournament for players/teams that are D1 quality.  If a true D1 player shows up from anywhere they will be seen at WWBA.  I remember the beginnings of WWBA when you had to qualify to get in or have done really good before. 

The regional tournament idea is so off base to me.  PG does regional tournaments now with Super 25, East/West National Championships and so forth.  I do not believe it has ever been PG's goal to provide tournaments for  lower level players/teams.  They have always tried to be a resource for the best players, whether we/you like it or not.  The regional tournaments are still recruited mostly by D1 schools.  My friends who coach at smaller schools will say that PG is not where they find their players.  They find them at the smaller tournaments.  PG is not for everyone and I don't believe has tried to be.  They will take your money but they are not the resource or use of your money for D2 and down players.  Doesn't mean you won't get seen there but not the highest chances.  I know several players who were playing at WWBA who were seen by D1 schools and told their friends about them and they got invites to their school out of the WWBA even though they were not there.

I tend to agree with 2019Dad here...a vast majority of the teams at WWBA are southeast teams. Makes sense, it's in their back yard. Looking at what would be comparable is the USA Baseball National Team Championships. The hold an East and West event, and the teams attending those events are typically from those regions. I don't see a lot of East coast schools at the west event, except those schools that recruit nationally.

Man, I don't get this debate.  Here's how it works:

• Travel teams are setup because they want to make money and develop baseball talent
• Parents want their sons to play on a travel team to get better, they're dreamers and/or for the experience
• Travel teams lure in these families by signing up for big "showcase" events
• Many families want the 1 or 2 events where they travel, stay over, so the kids get that experience
• PG and others are those big showcase events
• The growth of travel programs has grown the PG attendance, but has also watered it down
• Parents of quality players sit and watch and ask themselves "WTH is that team/player doing here?"
• Good players get recruited, regardless of PG.  Poor players got the experience.

PitchingFan posted:

 

When you say the California teams/western teams are not coming is absurd. 

It's not absurd. 11 out of 376 teams in the 17U WWBA were from California. That's less than 3%, from a state that has about 1/8 of the U.S. population, and about 20-25% of its high-level baseball talent. For Jupiter, 4 out of the 88 teams were from California.

 Some other Western states at the 17U WWBA this year:

• Washington: 0 teams
• Oregon: 0 teams
• Nevada: 1 team
• Arizona: 0 teams
• Utah: 0 teams

It's not "absurd." The facts are that Western teams generally don't go to the WWBA. The above states and California have about 65 million population. Combined they sent 12 teams, half as many as were sent by Virginia (24 teams), with a population of 8.5 million.

Your view that all the top teams come to the WWBA is not correct, at least with respect to the western third of the country.

But the top teams and players from the west are there which is the goal.  Name a top 50 team that was not at WWBA this year in 15U, 16U or 17U.

Based on whose rankings? PG's? They only rank teams that play PG events.

I can tell you one team that if they had come this year probably would have been right to the end: WW Sweets. They were in the Phil Singer in San Diego right before the PG All American game and those boys were impressive. I think they had 2-3 PG All Americans on that team, virtually every player is committed to a Pac-12 school and they rake. So there is one example.

The best teams from the west did not attend, excluding the CBA Marucci National team and BPA

edited: was looking at wrong rankings list...so deleted it

You can look at the 17U Travel team rankings and see that PG is heavily skewed to teams in the east/southeast. There are tons of teams in California that probably are as good/better than the teams they have ranked...proximity breeds familiarity

PitchingFan posted:

But the top teams and players from the west are there which is the goal.  Name a top 50 team that was not at WWBA this year in 15U, 16U or 17U.

Just looking at 17U:

• None of the GBG teams from California came, including GBG Marucci, which PG ranked at #28
• Norcal didn't come, #2 in PG rankings
• Trosky didn't come, #12 in PG rankings
• Playa Vista Orioles, #18 in PG rankings
• AZ T-Rex Easton, #31 in PG rankings

I was very familiar with 17U this year, but I just went and looked at 15U, which had even fewer California teams at the WWBA (7), and the following top 10 teams weren't there:

• CBA Bulldogs, #4 in PG rankings
• San Diego Show, #6 in PG rankings

Although I should add, I don't believe PG's rankings of travel teams are in any way accurate, because they limit their purview to teams that play PG events. For example, PG ranked 186 17U travel teams (https://www.perfectgame.org/Ra...m/Default.aspx?R=216 )and about the same number of teams are ranked in Virginia (12) and California (14) -- that should cause you to question the rankings. Looking at 15U, PG has 2 of  the top 64 teams from California (and none from Arizona, Washington, Nevada, Oregon) -- to which I can only say 

Edited to add: GaryMe beat me to it. PG player rankings at least include kids who don't play PG events. PG travel team rankings do not make any attempt to do so.

But the players did.  Look at the roster for those teams and see how many played in WWBA. They did not come because their players were playing on other teams.  Most of the WW Sweets roster has dual teams as summer teams.  The same is true of GBG.  The top players came with other teams and or they combined to make a power team.  Showtime players joined with another team I know because we watched them play.  So to say they did not come is wrong, they just did not come as their team but the players were still here.  Very few top players do not play in the WWBA. 

I agree that it is tough to come this far and I would say the same the other way around.  My son went to PG National Championship with Arizona and it was the most expensive trip of the year and not worth it for us.  If they moved WWBA to California the southern teams would not come but the top players would still be there because even after you are committed it is the place to be. 

But those same teams that you stated did not come to Jupiter either.  There were only 5 from West in Jupiter. 

PitchingFan posted:

 

First, that is ridiculous that WWBA is only for southern teams.  When you say the California teams/western teams are not coming is absurd.  The top teams are always there at WWBA from everywhere. 

and...

But the top teams and players from the west are there which is the goal.  Name a top 50 team that was not at WWBA this year in 15U, 16U or 17U.

What are we talking about here, pitchingfan? Teams or players. You just supported my argument that players from the west are having to go with other teams to the WWBA in Georgia because their teams aren't attending. The teams attending WWBA are pieced together (except the guys like CBA Marucci and BPA) with players from other squads who want to go. Top teams from the west do not attend the event as a "team" that has played together for a long period of time. Often, the teams from the west don't resemble the teams at all.

PitchingFan posted:

But the players did.  Look at the roster for those teams and see how many played in WWBA. They did not come because their players were playing on other teams.  Most of the WW Sweets roster has dual teams as summer teams.  The same is true of GBG.  The top players came with other teams and or they combined to make a power team.  Showtime players joined with another team I know because we watched them play.  So to say they did not come is wrong, they just did not come as their team but the players were still here.  Very few top players do not play in the WWBA. 

I agree that it is tough to come this far and I would say the same the other way around.  My son went to PG National Championship with Arizona and it was the most expensive trip of the year and not worth it for us.  If they moved WWBA to California the southern teams would not come but the top players would still be there because even after you are committed it is the place to be. 

But those same teams that you stated did not come to Jupiter either.  There were only 5 from West in Jupiter. 

It's obvious that you are not going to be convinced that very strong players and teams do not travel to the WWBA from the Western third of the country. You say "They did not come because their players were playing on other teams." It's the other way around. The teams weren't going, some of the kids wanted to play there, so they hooked up with other teams and went as guest players. My son's travel team is decent* -- 9 D1 commits, including a PG All-American -- and they did not come to the WWBA, so my son was fortunate enough -- through a HSBBW connection -- to hook up with another team. And the WWBA was great for him. Really enjoyed it. But he was the only one from his travel team there. 

From a business standpoint, I'll say again that PG's market penetration in California is low. Maybe it's not cost-effective for them to pursue the California market harder. 

*Of course, they're not ranked at all because they did not play any PG events.

Teams is a loose word in showcase ball.  My son played for three teams this summer and 6 two summers ago.  The word team in showcase ball is whoever comes that week/weekend.  I don't agree with it completely but it is about getting seen and whoever will get you seen is what matters, I reckon.  I do not believe that the top teams have a real roster, they have a fluid roster.   The WW Sweets team would say that their best players were the four players you mentioned but those guys did not play most of the summer for them.  The top two players played for Canes National in all of the big tournaments so are they Sweets players or Canes players?  i understand the frustration but I do believe that the players must do what is best for them.  I lived in Missouri for three years until the past year and it was tough sending my son to play in WWBA or other PG tournaments without me.  But it was what was best for him.  That is why he played for so many teams.

In regards to the MLB scouts, my point probably isn't as strong there. 

However, the top travel teams with the top players from the northeast/midwest/anywhere are still going to head to Georgia because that is where the SEC and ACC coaches will be. The top players from PA, NJ, NY, CT are committing to southern schools. In order to be seen by said schools they'll be making the trip to Georgia and not the Philadelphia Regional. Now the second tier players at the Philly regional are going to follow the top flight players because they want UNC to see them. You're absolutely right when you say schools recruit regionally, but if you want an out of region school, you have to go to them. A player good enough to play at UVA is not going to stay local and collect offers from Penn St, Temple, UPenn, etc. Nothing wrong with playing there but its not UVA. 

Regional events would 100% be better for the good players looking to stay local than the current format. Without a doubt. No benefit for the top talent though 

CTbballDad posted:

Man, I don't get this debate.  Here's how it works:

• Travel teams are setup because they want to make money and develop baseball talent
• Parents want their sons to play on a travel team to get better, they're dreamers and/or for the experience
• Travel teams lure in these families by signing up for big "showcase" events
• Many families want the 1 or 2 events where they travel, stay over, so the kids get that experience
• PG and others are those big showcase events
• The growth of travel programs has grown the PG attendance, but has also watered it down
• Parents of quality players sit and watch and ask themselves "WTH is that team/player doing here?"
• Good players get recruited, regardless of PG.  Poor players got the experience.

 

How many times am I allowed to hit the "like reply" button?

9and7dad posted:

CTbballDad posted:

Man, I don't get this debate.  Here's how it works:

• Travel teams are setup because they want to make money and develop baseball talent
• Parents want their sons to play on a travel team to get better, they're dreamers and/or for the experience
• Travel teams lure in these families by signing up for big "showcase" events
• Many families want the 1 or 2 events where they travel, stay over, so the kids get that experience
• PG and others are those big showcase events
• The growth of travel programs has grown the PG attendance, but has also watered it down
• Parents of quality players sit and watch and ask themselves "WTH is that team/player doing here?"
• Good players get recruited, regardless of PG.  Poor players got the experience.

 

How many times am I allowed to hit the "like reply" button?

precisely 4

PABaseball posted:

In regards to the MLB scouts, my point probably isn't as strong there. 

However, the top travel teams with the top players from the northeast/midwest/anywhere are still going to head to Georgia because that is where the SEC and ACC coaches will be. The top players from PA, NJ, NY, CT are committing to southern schools. In order to be seen by said schools they'll be making the trip to Georgia and not the Philadelphia Regional. Now the second tier players at the Philly regional are going to follow the top flight players because they want UNC to see them. You're absolutely right when you say schools recruit regionally, but if you want an out of region school, you have to go to them. A player good enough to play at UVA is not going to stay local and collect offers from Penn St, Temple, UPenn, etc. Nothing wrong with playing there but its not UVA. 

Regional events would 100% be better for the good players looking to stay local than the current format. Without a doubt. No benefit for the top talent though 

I have no reason to doubt that your perspective is correct for your region. Most of the top players from the West want to play in the PAC12, not the SEC and ACC, so that may explain why they don't head to Georgia in nearly the same numbers.

2019Dad posted:

PABaseball posted:

In regards to the MLB scouts, my point probably isn't as strong there. 

However, the top travel teams with the top players from the northeast/midwest/anywhere are still going to head to Georgia because that is where the SEC and ACC coaches will be. The top players from PA, NJ, NY, CT are committing to southern schools. In order to be seen by said schools they'll be making the trip to Georgia and not the Philadelphia Regional. Now the second tier players at the Philly regional are going to follow the top flight players because they want UNC to see them. You're absolutely right when you say schools recruit regionally, but if you want an out of region school, you have to go to them. A player good enough to play at UVA is not going to stay local and collect offers from Penn St, Temple, UPenn, etc. Nothing wrong with playing there but its not UVA. 

Regional events would 100% be better for the good players looking to stay local than the current format. Without a doubt. No benefit for the top talent though 

I have no reason to doubt that your perspective is correct for your region. Most of the top players from the West want to play in the PAC12, not the SEC and ACC, so that may explain why they don't head to Georgia in nearly the same numbers.

You mean it's regional?

GaryMe posted:

9and7dad posted:

CTbballDad posted:

Man, I don't get this debate.  Here's how it works:

• Travel teams are setup because they want to make money and develop baseball talent
• Parents want their sons to play on a travel team to get better, they're dreamers and/or for the experience
• Travel teams lure in these families by signing up for big "showcase" events
• Many families want the 1 or 2 events where they travel, stay over, so the kids get that experience
• PG and others are those big showcase events
• The growth of travel programs has grown the PG attendance, but has also watered it down
• Parents of quality players sit and watch and ask themselves "WTH is that team/player doing here?"
• Good players get recruited, regardless of PG.  Poor players got the experience.

 

How many times am I allowed to hit the "like reply" button?

precisely 4

Haha - the fifth one must have been the one that got me.

SomeBaseballDad posted:

PABaseball posted:

GaryMe posted:

IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.  

I don't think this is true. The original idea behind the WWBA was to get the top talent in one centralized location. I still think that is true now, even if 100 of the 400 teams stink, the top talent is still there. If you had regionals, the top schools and MLB scouts are still going to head to the Georgia. They might get more teams and more $$$, but the whole premise behind all these teams flocking to Lake Point is the idea that scouts will be there. There is a guarantee scouts will be in Georgia, no guarantee they'll be in MD or NJ.

I'm also not sure it is possible with all the kids playing on teams from all over the country. 

If we're talking about MLB scouts only, they're everywhere, at least at the lower levels. I can think of 4 or 5 just in the area I live in, and that's the ones I know about. My son got to know a very high-level scout well. Helped him chose a college. When the kid asked about exposer the guy told him, "if you're good it doesn't matter where you go, we'll find you". 

The issue with the last sentence is too many players and their parents don’t understand a scout’s definition of good.

RJM posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

PABaseball posted:

GaryMe posted:

IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.  

I don't think this is true. The original idea behind the WWBA was to get the top talent in one centralized location. I still think that is true now, even if 100 of the 400 teams stink, the top talent is still there. If you had regionals, the top schools and MLB scouts are still going to head to the Georgia. They might get more teams and more $$$, but the whole premise behind all these teams flocking to Lake Point is the idea that scouts will be there. There is a guarantee scouts will be in Georgia, no guarantee they'll be in MD or NJ.

I'm also not sure it is possible with all the kids playing on teams from all over the country. 

If we're talking about MLB scouts only, they're everywhere, at least at the lower levels. I can think of 4 or 5 just in the area I live in, and that's the ones I know about. My son got to know a very high-level scout well. Helped him chose a college. When the kid asked about exposer the guy told him, "if you're good it doesn't matter where you go, we'll find you". 

The issue with the last sentence is too many players and their parents don’t understand a scout’s definition of good.

Of the 135K or seniors playing high school varsity baseball, only about 300-400 are "good" by that standard.

GaryMe posted:

RJM posted:

SomeBaseballDad posted:

PABaseball posted:

GaryMe posted:

IF PG were listening and decided to "regionalize" the WWBA event (Southeast, Northeast, Mid Atlanta, Central Plains, West Coast/Rocky Mtn States) they would get far more teams to participate because the travel would not be as prohibitive. Then they could hold a "WWBA World Championship" for say the top 10 teams at each event at a premium venue.  

I don't think this is true. The original idea behind the WWBA was to get the top talent in one centralized location. I still think that is true now, even if 100 of the 400 teams stink, the top talent is still there. If you had regionals, the top schools and MLB scouts are still going to head to the Georgia. They might get more teams and more $$$, but the whole premise behind all these teams flocking to Lake Point is the idea that scouts will be there. There is a guarantee scouts will be in Georgia, no guarantee they'll be in MD or NJ.

I'm also not sure it is possible with all the kids playing on teams from all over the country. 

If we're talking about MLB scouts only, they're everywhere, at least at the lower levels. I can think of 4 or 5 just in the area I live in, and that's the ones I know about. My son got to know a very high-level scout well. Helped him chose a college. When the kid asked about exposer the guy told him, "if you're good it doesn't matter where you go, we'll find you". 

The issue with the last sentence is too many players and their parents don’t understand a scout’s definition of good.

Of the 135K or seniors playing high school varsity baseball, only about 300-400 are "good" by that standard.

Most players recruited by P5’s and other top programs are potential pro prospects at some level between rounds 1-40. A good percentage prove in college ball they’re not. So heading at the high school, heading to college ball level the number is more like 750-1000.

Just wondering..why is it necessary to include the long and annoying previous replies in some of you folks posts?..just reply and be done with it.

It must be Regional CatcherDadNY😜

PitchingFan posted:

It must be Regional CatcherDadNY😜

 

CatcherDadNY posted:

Just wondering..why is it necessary to include the long and annoying previous replies in some of you folks posts?..just reply and be done with it.

It gets worse when reading on my phone the columns are one letter, my finger aches with all the swiping down

CatcherDadNY posted:

Just wondering..why is it necessary to include the long and annoying previous replies in some of you folks posts?..just reply and be done with it.

"Get off my lawn!" 

If some would read the forum rules they would have seen the following info from the moderators....."if you're about to write a reply with more than two embedded quotes, save yourself the trouble: nobody wants to read it."

Sounds like you are slamming RJM there...nice

Not slamming anyone..informing those for whom the shoe fits of the forum rules...it's saves bandwidth and makes it easier for all of us to have a discussion.

CatcherDadNY posted:

If some would read the forum rules they would have seen the following info from the moderators....."if you're about to write a reply with more than two embedded quotes, save yourself the trouble: nobody wants to read it."

Is that before or after is says to send VHS tapes to coaches?

Let's take a look:

CatcherDadNY

shade thrown

We live in a world with rules..some can live with that..maybe others cant..you infer what I did not imply in regards to specific posters..that's on you..you can discuss it with the moderators if you like.

I keep trying to keep this discussion on topic but it keeps veering off... Interesting discussion though...  I hear the feedback on Atlanta and it stings bec I've grown very fond of this place.  But the feedback are mostly valid, especially with regards to traffic (the new express toll road is helping a lot though).  Living in LakePoint's backyard, I hate to see PG leave though so I'm hoping the rumors are false or that it's just PG's negotiating tactic.  Last I heard though, it's almost a done deal and LakePoint is looking to start and organize their own travel ball tournaments.

I would like to submit the option to anyone who hates Atlanta traffic to never, and I mean EVERRRRRR (to quote JR) move here. 

Thank you,

Shove

Shoveit4Ks posted:

I would like to submit the option to anyone who hates Atlanta traffic to never, and I mean EVERRRRRR (to quote JR) move here. 

Thank you,

Shove

In Atlanta there is a vortex every Friday afternoon.  It sometimes take you 2 hours to cover 25 miles!  Some scientist should really study this phenomenon known as Atlanta Friday Traffic. (because it wasn't bad enough the other days of the week!)

CatcherDadNY posted:

We live in a world with rules..some can live with that..maybe others cant..you infer what I did not imply in regards to specific posters..that's on you..you can discuss it with the moderators if you like.

atlnon posted:

I keep trying to keep this discussion on topic but it keeps veering off... Interesting discussion though...  I hear the feedback on Atlanta and it stings bec I've grown very fond of this place.  But the feedback are mostly valid, especially with regards to traffic (the new express toll road is helping a lot though).  Living in LakePoint's backyard, I hate to see PG leave though so I'm hoping the rumors are false or that it's just PG's negotiating tactic.  Last I heard though, it's almost a done deal and LakePoint is looking to start and organize their own travel ball tournaments.

I don't know of any rumors, but they don't have the WWBAs in their calendar yet and there is nothing scheduled in 2019 for Lake Point which is interesting. If they were to move I would assume they would head to a spring training facility in Fl. There would obviously be scheduling obstacles (MiLB is in season and WWBA is right when draftees start reporting). I highly doubt PG would move it to Alabama as some have mentioned, but I could see FL happening. 

Could we all pool our money and do it.  I have the land about 30 Mins from Charlotte airport.  No traffic, but no motels either.  We could build our own motels, restaurants, fields, etc.  We could call it Mountpoint.  Just saying.  With all the people here and resources available we could make a bid to PG. 

Or we could build it in California .  My sons are done so I don't care where it goes.  Will be interesting though.  I asked a friend who is highly connected with PG and he said they are silent right now but he suspects something since there is no chatter about next year's schedules.

Great idea, i say we do it in Dallas Ft Worth. Should be able to accommodate all with hotels, activities and while the Dads are hanging with the boys, the wives/SO can go the Silos in Waco. 

Saw this announcement: https://www.prepbaseballreport...urnaments-1320569874

I'm not familiar with Bullpen Tournaments, but perhaps there is some competition coming on the tournament front?

2019Dad posted:

Saw this announcement: https://www.prepbaseballreport...urnaments-1320569874

I'm not familiar with Bullpen Tournaments, but perhaps there is some competition coming on the tournament front?

That's Grand Park in Westfield, IN outside of Indy. Run by the Indiana Bulls hence the Bullpen Tournaments. Impressive place about 45 min from my house. Indiana PBR has a lot of their events there also.

Grand Park

2019Dad posted:

Saw this announcement: https://www.prepbaseballreport...urnaments-1320569874

I'm not familiar with Bullpen Tournaments, but perhaps there is some competition coming on the tournament front?

There is no competition from anybody when it comes to tournaments. PBR takes some money away from PG when it comes to showcasing and camps but they are realistically about 10 years behind PG right now.

I also found it interesting that PBR was covering Jupiter WWBA, a PG event. Fairly heavily too 

2019Dad posted:

Saw this announcement: https://www.prepbaseballreport...urnaments-1320569874

I'm not familiar with Bullpen Tournaments, but perhaps there is some competition coming on the tournament front?

They play a lot of there tournaments out of Grand Park in Indiana first class tournaments very comparable to PG although not as big! 44s team played in the Midwest Prospect League tourney and it was heavily recruited by a lot of D1 schools

https://www.perfectgame.org/Ar...w.aspx?article=15931

"Check"

"Parents, coaches and players know that Perfect Game makes Major League dreams a reality!"

Maybe now, LP will.

Wales posted:

https://www.perfectgame.org/Ar...w.aspx?article=15931

I still think it's a publicity stunt.  Lakepoint is staying open, no reason why PG wouldn't start there.

Wow...that's huge news.  I gotta admit, playing in mid-July in Iowa is a heck of a lot more comfortable than playing in GA.   I saw yesterday that Berliner Park in Columbus OH is turfing all of their full size fields this spring.  Seems a lot of places "up north" may be trying to cash in on the youth baseball movement instead of letting GA, the Carolinas and FL have it all.   Maybe some of that "southern $$$" will come up here to the Midwest for a change....we've all been spending it down there for years lol

Interesting. I always thought the WWBA and other top tournaments were so popular because much of the talent was in GA and FL. Easily accessible for the top players, minimal travel, costs low, etc. 

I guess having it in GA helped get it off the ground, now that they have established the brand they can put it anywhere. I'd rather head to Iowa than Georgia anyway.

I suspect this will increase the PG presence in the Midwest. The biggest winners in all this will be the Big 12 and the Big 10. 

Average relative humidity (%) in summer:

I don't know if it's a negotiating ploy or not, but if I wanted to expand PG's business I'd want to turn it from a regional business (albeit one with lots of customers traveling to them) to a national one -- thought it was interesting that the press release said that they are looking for "an increased national footprint"

The article said they were looking for their own place in GA....not that they were leaving.  

They are exploring a national footprint.  They want their own complexes across the country, rather than renting.  This makes sense if you have ever counted the amount of "PG sucks because they charge for_____" and the reply was "that's not us that is lakepoint."

CaCO3Girl posted:

The article said they were looking for their own place in GA....not that they were leaving.  

They are exploring a national footprint.  They want their own complexes across the country, rather than renting.  This makes sense if you have ever counted the amount of "PG sucks because they charge for_____" and the reply was "that's not us that is lakepoint."

Agreed. It makes no sense to abandon Georgia or the Southeast. It's a great market for amateur baseball. But it does make sense to expand nationally.

I wonder if it's possible that PG will end up with a stake in LakePoint....or even buy out the baseball portion?   Seems like that may be an easier route than trying to start from scratch.  It is a good location, just seems like LakePoint got too big too fast and maybe revenue couldn't keep up with the costs to build the place

Something in PA or Massachusetts would make sense in my opinion...lots of teams.

Sad that the rumors are confirmed bec I live so close to LakePoint.  But glad that PG has no intention of leaving GA.  Also sad that all of you all's money are not coming our way anymore...

Cobb county, technically west cobb lost the original bid for PG and LP years ago and the coalition from Emerson stepped up and Bartow "won" it. I wonder if Cobb will make a play for it again? Back in the day the politicians didn't see fit to give away the funds to attract the complex, wonder if that will change?

https://www.mdjonline.com/news...ee-e0311fe030ec.html

Shoveit4Ks posted:

Cobb county, technically west cobb lost the original bid for PG and LP years ago and the coalition from Emerson stepped up and Bartow "won" it. I wonder if Cobb will make a play for it again? Back in the day the politicians didn't see fit to give away the funds to attract the complex, wonder if that will change?

A new place closer to East Cobb would be great....a lot of fields all closer together.  LakePoint was great, but man it's a drive to most of the other fields they used, though for us "northerners" coming down LakePoint being outside of Atlanta and right off of I-75 was in a perfect location....that and the rentals available on Lake Allatoona made for a great week.

I can say with certainty, if PG pulls out of LP the only thing out there that will make money and survive will be the Chick-Fil-A. 

Shoveit4Ks posted:

I can say with certainty, if PG pulls out of LP the only thing out there that will make money and survive will be the Chick-Fil-A. 

And Loves Travel Center Gas Station - the business that was originally in that area before LakePoint was even conceived.

I sure hope V-Tool, PBR, or whoever continues to thrive and provide some level of competition.  Monopoly bad.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

I wonder if it's possible that PG will end up with a stake in LakePoint....or even buy out the baseball portion?   Seems like that may be an easier route than trying to start from scratch.  It is a good location, just seems like LakePoint got too big too fast and maybe revenue couldn't keep up with the costs to build the place

Probably doesn't make sense for PG to have much, if any, capital or debt tied up in land and baseball fields. They draw hotel, restaurant, and tourist dollars to wherever they host tournaments. For many municipalities it makes sense to make sweetheart deals with PG because of the boon it brings to the local economy. I think this article about Lee County FL from 2016 has been posted here before:

"This year, Perfect Game has 46 events scheduled in the county. That’s 15 more than were held last year, when it generated a record $26 million of the county’s $61 million in visitor spending from sports tourism other than spring training. Perfect Game filled an estimated 62,800 hotel room nights, many of them during the slow summer months.
For now, Perfect Game events are played rent-free other than $500 a month for a utility bill, at four Lee County-owned stadiums, 39 county-managed baseball fields and sometimes other area fields on loan to the county. Soon, Perfect Game may have a much larger, single-site venue to generate, and make, even more money."

https://www.news-press.com/sto...s-millions/85920274/

As Shove hinted at, this is probably just part of a negotiation. LakePoint (and the surrounding region) needs PG. The new owners at LakePoint  probably want to renegotiate a more favorable deal, but PG has almost no reason to do that.

https://www.prospectmeadows.com/our-story/

CatcherDadNY posted:

Something in PA or Massachusetts would make sense in my opinion...lots of teams.

As much as I would like to see this happen, the remote fields are just too poor to host such big events. Seeing some of the HS fields in Georgia was like going to another planet after playing up north so long. The high school fields in the northeast are baddddd. Now imagine how bad they are in the summer when the players aren't there everyday watering, raking, and mowing. 

I always wondered how PG would do if they rented out Diamond Nation for a week, but there just aren't enough fields in the area. 

CatcherDadNY posted:

Something in PA or Massachusetts would make sense in my opinion...lots of teams.

There are only 14M people in all of New England. Hotels are very expensive in the summer. It wouldn’t make good business sense to be there. If PG builds a Northeast facility the NJ-PA I-78 corridor probably makes the most sense. 

Anybody want to go half and we'll throw $1000 in rent money on top of that $500 utility bill charge and see if Lee County will give us those 4 stadiums and 39 fields to use for the summer?  Sweet deal for PG to say the least

Too many teams in GA and I think Pg has done well at lake point. Tournament fees are high for Pg but they are not the biggest cost associated with travel ball. I think if they chose to raise fees maybe 4-500 per tournament to cover higher cost at Lakepoint, teams would pay it without question.  Most teams have 20ish players so $20-25 per kid additional per tournament. 

Combination of central airport, a lot of quality fields on the north side of Atlanta. Central location for the southeast, I think they will work it out. PG loses income without Lakepoint and Lakepoint really loses money without PG. it benefits both to work it out. 

If PG is really out of lakepoint, which I still don’t believe, it opens the door for others.  PBR just came to GA, they have had some showcases but claiming stake on LP would secure their position.  Also Triple Crown is big here...they could take over LP.

It won’t be empty guys, someone will snatch it up.