What is your experience with Perfect Game vs PBR? Were they more or less important than your travel team?

Original Post

Perfect Game was the pinnacle for my sons.  That was where they saw the most coaches over a long period.  The only PBR event that is close to PG's big events, IMO, is the PBR Futures Game.  The futures game may be the best event  out there for getting young players seen, especially if you are fortunate enough to go younger than the target audience.  My son was blessed to go twice.  Easiest way to be seen by everyone and lots of RC's and HC's there.

PG seems to have better reach, draw and respect. Depends on your location as PBR are franchises. PBR NY PA really good, I hear. Very well run and Dan C is awesome.

PBR TX doesn’t compare to the others , in my and others’ experience. PG seems to be better organized and better run. 

I would  rather attend attend a PG event if there was a choice. Way more variety and reach of scouts at PG events. 

Plenty of reviews online here to see what others have said

 

A player has to determine his talent level and target schools before looking at PG v. PBR. Plenty of kids have wasted a lot of money attending PG events. I can’t comment on PBR. It’s become bigger since my son played.

Unless you’re the “I’m a high in the draft prospect stud, come get me” player don’t thrown spaghetti off the wall to see what sticks. Figure out what schools you want to target. Find out where they go to look at talent. Build communication with the school and let them know when you will be where they are. Get your travel coach to presell you to the coach before the event. 

The best events are the ones where you are seen by the schools you target.

Sounds like you mean showcases, rather than tournaments?

Both PG and PBR post metrics and comments online, which stay there until you do another one.  Advice we were given (but only after son had done one PBR) was, don't do any showcase until your numbers are what they need to be to be recruited, because having uninspiring numbers posted online is worse than having none, and guarantees that you're going to spend more money to do it again.  You can measure your numbers (60-time, FB velo, etc.) yourself, before you decide whether to go.

In our state, the PBR invite-only spring showcase gets all the in-state schools and many from neighboring states.  Lots of recruiting activity in spring after junior year, at all levels.

One thing to note too at the PG showcases, They do the exact same thing. So no need to travel far and wide to get to a destination showcase unless a target school confirms they'll be there (check NCAA Calendar). 

The only outcome at a showcase is a PG grade and a write up. That's it for the $600-800. If he isn't drafting, it really isn't necessary, if you're able to make various PG events.

PBR Tx showcases were a joke. See what others have posted.  Son is a PO, 10 "Hurry up" pitches and done.

Their guns were off and they documented the wrong pitches.  I had video, of my Stalker Pro and their stalker pro and their display at an event and they still didn't update his profile with "their speed" or what Hunter tweeted about quoting their speed.

PBR futures seemed to be a cool event, if you're able to get an invite, but again, in TX it was a mess.

To put the both in perspective. (I'm not bragging here, just showing the difference). 

My son is ranked by PG #94 prospect, #23 RHP in the country, #8 Prospect and #2 RHP in TX, Broke 90 mph at Univ of Texas showcase, 90 at WWBA Ft Meyers, 91 at WWBA Jupiter (GT pitching coach clocked him at 92). Threw a perfect game at Jupiter as a Junior (ended up a "no hitter" with the 2nd to last out error from 3B to 1B, but he threw a "perfect game). He also was the only 2021 to get on the ELITE Pitching All Tourney Team (out of 12 pitchers across all Jupiter). Last week he Just got PG Rawlings 2020 1st Team All-American, yet is a "Bubble guy" at PBR. Didn't make top 100 or top pitcher list in Texas. 

I mention that because PBR had him earlier in the summer at 86, 88 at UH tourney and tweeted about it, yet it didn't make it into his profile. Even with video of their gun, their display.... They also grab information from other sites, as exemplified in people's notes/write ups, but wouldn't include or update the profile.   

Where would I spend my money and travel to...Perfect Game events, period.

 

 

Last edited by Eokerholm

I will agree with Eokerholm.  Since PBR is not a national organization per se but an individual who owns the rights to that state, the information does not transfer some times and is not updated.  My son was top 10 in two states for a year when we moved.  PBR in some states change their rankings not by the numbers but by the level of school committed to.  The local SEC or ACC school will get a higher ranking than others.  Again, the greatest part of PBR is the Futures Game.  Never did a PG showcase and that may have affected son's ranking by PG.  He did a ton of tournaments but never a showcase.  I'm a fan of PG tournaments and some are very cheap if your child has an attribute that others want. 

Both were huge for my son.  If you have a high profile travel team, they aren't as important.  If you don't, they are big.  Perfect Game has been the leader, but I see PBR taking over.  They have partnered with all the best tech (trackman, blast, driveline, visual edge)they are now running Lake Pointe, I just see them being the go to over the next several years.  They are positioning themselves to be the leader in providing independent stat info.  Futures Games is the big underclass event for PBR and the Super 60 for seniors, the Underclass National and the National, and the All American games are the biggest showcase events for PG.

I don't concur with Eokerholm about TX PBR, but all of our events were done when Toby Bicknell ran it.  That said, Phil Haig has done a good job getting out to see prospects outside of showcases and reporting on them. PG will never come report your high school game, PBR will if you are a top prospect.   Our first event with PBR TX was son's sophomore year in October.  There were 4-5 RC/PCs there.  PBR gave him a write up and talked to him a bit, he is also a PO.  The next weekend we went to an LSU camp.  No idea how they even knew we were going, but when we got there, the pitching coach pulled my son over and had him throw, talked to him, put him in first in the scrimmage and then had him come get me to tour and sit down to talk.  We found out that PBR had told them about my son before we got there.  To me that's worth the $195 entry fee at a PBR showcase.  We had zero connection to anyone at PBR.  That was the only PBR showcase we did, and he was invited to the Futures Games and the Super 60.  With both organizations, if you haven't done an event, you will likely not get invites to the big ones, and likely will not be on the radar for rankings.

Last edited by baseballhs

We're partial to PG because we live 30 minutes from LakePoint in GA, and my son grew up playing PG tournaments / having FB velo tracked playing PG tournaments. (He's a PP, who has a lot of fun pitching . His first PG showcase was in August before his Junior year, and he actually went to KY for that due to scheduling (there was not another weekend that summer due to travel team commitments) and his grandparents live in that area.  For us, the value was not the PG grade or rank, as mentioned above, but the numbers and videos from the showcase.  It made it very easy for him to email college coaches the link to his PG profile (showing his measurables at the time, videos and history of playing in PG tournaments).  Maybe PBR has something similar? 

 

The last sentence of baseballhs is completely true.  They will typically or maybe always make you do a showcase to get invited to PBR Futures.  We were told the first year that they wanted son to go to Futures Game but he had to do a showcase.  It was a great investment also. 

As others have said PBR are local franchises.  In my state that means that the guys who run it have ties to the established baseball system, and so kids from traditional powerhouses (HS and travel) seem to get overrated.  In my opinion PG is more accurate and less biased, which you would expect from people who watch the players without having connections to their HS or travel coaches.

FYI and to be fair, we participated in the last few events before Toby left and moved to take the Head Coach or whatever job in NC last summer. He definitely had "short timers" syndrome. 

We wrote down the wrong pitches for my son and they really rushed him at the South TX showcase, in order to get an invite to the Futures tryout at A&M which we got. The people they chose for Futures was extremely odd to say the least. 

 

 

Last edited by Eokerholm

PG is better than PBR in every single way with the exception of social media presence and cost. I have found PG to be more honest when it comes to player evaluations and rankings. As far as showcasing I have never sent mine to either, it wasn't necessary at all - their travel coach could do way more than PG or PBR could do for him and he was already included in the price of the team. 

PBR seems to be more of a who you know, PG more of a what can you do. 

We live two hours from the place where PG was founded, but never did a showcase and did just two tournaments after son had committed to a P5.

Quite simply, our checkbook wasn't that big.

We did one or two PBR showcases per year. One came with the travel team enrollment and came toward the end of the season. The other we paid for and did it early in the year.

That way son had a gauge of where he was coming into the season and what improvement he made over the season. It also gave him third party stats to share with coaches, which he took care of getting out to coaches at schools he was interested in himself.

It all depends on your talent and schools you are looking at (we had a pretty specific list), what you want out of the events you attend; and how much you can afford to spend.

Between my years accompanying my son and our years with the Va. Cardinals, I've been to at least one of the WWBA summer weeks in GA every year since 2004.  But it's not on our schedule this year.

The reasons:

1.  Over the winter, there was a great deal of uncertainty over whether the WWBA's would still happen, or if so, where, and in what form.  This confusion was forced upon PG by the financial collapse of the original LakePoint complex's structure and the delay in LP getting reorganized for summer 2020.  As of right now, it appears that PG is now planning to do 15u through 18u WWBA weeks in Marietta, with the East Cobb complex serving as the base of operations, like back in the old days.  But all the LP fields are out this year, which means that if they get the same number of teams they've had in recent years, pretty much all your game locations will be at the far-flung HS fields.  The ever-increasing field of teams and the resulting increasing use of far-flung fields has made what was once the event's main selling point -- concentrated game locations so as to enhance scouting -- a distant memory.  Without the large LP complex to give each team at least a few scout magnet games, I don't know how this works.  Not to mention, the AstroTurf at LP meant that at least some of the rainouts could be avoided or rescheduled.  Any week that sees substantial rain this year is totally screwed.

Note also that the 14u WWBA event is in Hoover, AL at the SEC complex.  I had thought that all WWBA nationals might end up there, but apparently not. 

With all this confusion, I think the WWBA is going to suffer a ton of scouting attrition this summer, and as a result, I think you'll see far fewer teams there as well.  I know we're not going.  That's not a slam at PG, as we'll continue to attend some of their events, but this one was just too up in the air to commit to this year.  When the dust settles on this summer, we'll look into next year's event.

2.  Because of the LP financial structure, PG's hotels requirements had become absurdly onerous, both in terms of the amount of dollars and in terms of the extraordinary headache of dealing with the booking systems, which were both complex and ever-changing.  I was amazed that teams just kept signing up in droves, no matter what the cost.  I think it'll go differently this year, but exactly how, I couldn't hazard a guess.

3. We have done PBR events and we plan on doing more.  They are working more like PG used to, with key events limited both in number and in "invitation only" setups.  PBR has LakePoint for some events this summer and we have elected to go that route instead of PG/WWBA.  I do think you'll see many teams make that choice, so the WWBA field may be bereft of some of the stronger programs this time around.  Whether that persists into 2021, I can't say.  But PBR is doing a great job of delivering quality exposure on a more cost-conscious basis right now, so ... you can't expect the way things were 15 years ago to remain the same forever.

Some great posts already here. 

I think the comparison between PG and PBR has some differing values based on your son's talent and school targets as well as some geography. If your son is seeking a low D1/D2/D3/JUCO, then PBR may be more advantageous as it seems to have a more regional following. If your son is a top-500ish nationally ranked prospect, then PG is probably worth the added cost. 

Worth reiterating... don't go until your son has measurables desired by your target schools. Otherwise, as anotherparent said earlier, your son will constantly be looking to update those older, less impressive numbers (and costing more money to register and travel). And do NOT go to any showcases if your son is playing through an injury or soreness that would impact performance and/or measurables.

My son ended up at a low/mid-D1 and had by his rising senior summer the measures typical of players at such schools. While there is *some* projection involved in showcase evals, it's probably less than one might think. For example, while my son had developed desirable measurables by his rising senior summer, he was too projectable in his rising soph and junior summers to draw legit recruiting interest early. 

Also, if your targets are high academic schools, then go beyond PG and PBR to look at Showball and Headfirst showcases. Probably not worth doing though any earlier than the rising junior summer, and as a pitcher, maybe even the rising senior summer.

This:

TRS: Also, if your targets are high academic schools, then go beyond PG and PBR to look at Showball and Headfirst showcases. Probably not worth doing though any earlier than the rising junior summer, and as a pitcher, maybe even the rising senior summer.

There is some trickiness here. I don't think you want to put all your eggs in one showcase basket, or even one season of baskets.  That's why I suggest  going no later than fall jr. year to one of the Showball or HF events to get on coaches radars. Makes the connections that need to be made in the following summer easier to manage.

Also, if you are very enthusiastic about one or two or a few schools then don't ignore those schools camps.  my "19 got all of his offers after being seen at a showcase and then attending a variety of schools' camps.  Not everyone does it this way; heck, we didn't do it this way with our '17.  But it is a method that can work, especially when your list of options is narrow.

Quick note re: East Cobb fields

PG put some serious coin into them and they are now turf fields as I recall. So while there isn’t the same quantity as LakePoint, there is the ability to survive the summer showers....

Actually, for the reasons stated above, I think you may see more upper level scouting at PBR's events at LakePoint this summer, than at the scattered WWBA games that will be taking place at the same time.  I don't envy the scouts trying to cover all those bases at once, but I suppose that, other than having to monitor two different web sites instead of just one, it won't be too much unlike the recent years of WWBA events.

But again, that's only relevant if the events happen.  Fingers crossed.

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