Pete Rose vs. Bonds/Clemmons

Rose lied about gambling, then finally admitted it.

Bonds and Clemens have denied using PED's...Bonds has been indicted by a Federal Grand Jury for lying, and the Mitchell Commission has evidence that says Clemens is lying.

There's many more players that have been, and still are using PED's, that weren't on the list.

Pete deserves to be in the Hall based on his playing performance. If voters are going to waste time trying to put an * by guys like Clemens or Bonds, then go ahead and put an * next to Pete. He belongs.

And while they're at it..put an * next to Shoeless Joe Jackson, and induct him at the same time as Pete.

Rose,clemons,and Bonds are only human, they are not supernatural beings. They made mistakes just the same as you and I have in our life. The facts remains that they cheated and they are sometimes held to higher standards then you or I.I hope my kids can distinguish the difference between working really hard toward your goals and cheating and taking the easy way out. I don't know for sure, but I'm pretty confident they would make the right call.

I also know my kids don't look any farther than across the dinner table for role models.I'm sure all next season this will be the talk about who did, who didn't, I think we can all make up own minds. Now where do we go from here? Like My grandpa used to say "you are either part of the problem, or part of the solution"! I choose to use this laatest info on mlb to try and educate myself and my kids.

Charlie Hustle, is the greatest hitter I ever seen play the game. Better then Rod Carew, Wade Boggs, Paul Molitor, Tony Gwynn, and all the rest.

AND SHOULD BE 100% IN THE HOF FOR WHAT HE ACCOMPLISHED ON THE FIELD DURING HIS PLAYING CAREER AND THAT IS ONE OF THE GREATEST TRADEGIES OF MLB.

Now if he isn't in then Bonds and Clemens and all the other should never be in. IMHO

i agree 100%. cheatin's cheatin, all in or all out. very simple. but it will turn in to a cluster funk.

Pete Rose was banned from baseball, a rule he knew was there and the consequences. Bonds and clemons did steriods and HGH but the penaly is not a ban from baseball.

Rose was banned from baseball so he cant get in. Bonds and Clemons are not banned from baseball so they can be considered for it. h

So if I understand you correctly, breaking a rule carries more weight than breaking the law.

Pete signed a deal that gave him a lifetime ban.
He will go into the hall -- after he dies.
The steroid guys: the jury is out on them and will be for awhile. I would not vote for Bonds or Clemens right now (not that I have a vote).

They all, belong to the baseball HOF. By sure, they don't belong to the "perfect guys hall of fame". And neither belong any of us, HSBASEBALLWEBsters.

Racab you are correct. THe Hall has its own very simple criteria for voting:

Voting shall be based upon the player's record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.

http://web.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/bbwaa.jsp

I am going to say yes to Bonds and Clemons for the Hall of Fame UNTIL there is definate proof and something done by MLB to punish them for their actions. After this is proven - kick them out or don't vote them in.

As for Rose - keep him out because he violated the integrity of the game by betting. The rules are posted and there have been others banned from this. Also, his admission is pretty shady as well. He admitted in a book that he profited from. He knew by admitting his guilt that would make it a best seller and make tons of money off of it.

Rose - great hitter who didn't use drugs to be the best. But he abused the trust the game has in it's players to do the right thing.

Bonds and Clemens - good players who POSSIBLY used science to make themselves better. PROBABLY broke the law to do it though.

I think they should have the Hall Of Shame right next to the Hall of Fame.
That way they could be honored the way they should be??

They could have amusement rides and games.

The Rodger Dodger Roller Coaster.

The try to out Hustle Rose Slight of hand Card Games.

The What would you do with the 756 HR ball by Barry Bond's Auction and Pyrotechnic show.

They all Violated the Integrity of the game.
Either by doing it (PED's).
Are staying silent while it was being done.

EH

Cheating by using PED's. How is someone that does that worthy of the HOF? How do we know what they would have done without them? Will we ever really know when they actually started using them? I dont see what Rose did being any worse or destructive to the game as players cheating the game with PED's. Keep them all out or let them all in.

But I have never really gotten caught up in HOF or stuff like that. Just clean up the game. Put strict testing in place and then enforce your rules. Maris stills holds the record for most hr's in a season. Hank is still the all time hr king. Thats what I believe so that is what I will acknowledge.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by coach2709:
Rose - great hitter who didn't use drugs to be the best. But he abused the trust the game has in it's players to do the right thing.

QUOTE]

As did any players who took PEDs; abused the trust.

Argueably, what Rose did was less detrimental to the game as he didn't influence the outcome of any contest. The Users' actions did, indeed, influence the outcome of games, championship series, All Star Games (and thus home field advantage for postseason) and WS.

Orlando I agree with your statement. I was actually trying to lump Rose, Bonds and Clemens into the same category - those who abused the game's trust. I just didn't do a good job of it.

My only wish is that we don't condemn anyone until we know for a fact they have used something. Until Clemens admits (which he is adamantly swearing he didn't do anything) or is proven to have taken something I feel we have to assume he is innocent. The Mitchell Report is not law and while it has some legal backing it is not proof in a court of law.

Just remember the Duke Lacrosse team. They were innocent of anything illegal - guilty of having very poor taste. This could be the same situation.

Rose is guilty and needs to stay out. Bonds and Clemens et al the jury is still out - assume innocent until proven guilty. Honestly I hope they do find Bonds guilty of something. I can't stand him and hope they can strip him of the home run records.

Pete the Cheat should take it like a man.

By the math he's using, two wrongs make a right.

I don't care what his numbers say, he is worthless and will continue to grovel to fulfill his own self-gratification.

None of these players have been voted into the Hall as of this time. He should shut his whining pie hole.