PG Scoring and Rankings

quote:

Originally posted by That's Baseball:
I know there is someone on here that can help me with this. I have continually looked over PG's ratings of players and I still do not understand the method behind their scoring. I have seen players that have very similiar workout times, speed and velocities. And have watched their videos and the fundamentals are very close, however one player will be rated a 7.5 or 8, where the other player is rated a 9.5 or 10. The only difference I see between the players sometimes is the size. Is size a major consideration for the PG ratings.

That's a good question, perhaps PG would be best at giving an answer, but I will bet there is a difference in what a scout sees in a player vs. what a parent sees.

Interesting point made about size, I think my son received high grades based on his skill and his size as I did notice that some (back then) were not rated as high (and were smaller).
However, in the end I really think that the players make up and determination is what determines a lot and that can't be measured in an evaluation.

My opinion is not to read too much into the ratings and rankings, those that use it as a learning tool usually end up way passed HS ball.

JMO.

Check out page 4 i think PG explains it pretty well here.

Bear in mind that although to a potentially untrained eye (which includes mine even after 16 years of watching) players may seem to move to a ball similarly, or transfer and demonstrate a strong arm, there are finer issues of footwork that are in play. Combine that with 60 times, and the way a ball comes off a bat all combine to seperate the 7's from the 10's.

Size will always be a factor, and will always be given a benefit if they prove they can play. Remember these grades are projections, not just a point in time.

Ranking and skill assessment can change, not to mention a players performance. My son choked his first PG event. I actually think that his coach at the time who was known as a loudmouth that few liked, impacted the way his assessment was conducted. In hindsight, can't say as I blame anyone at all. But during the fielding the batter hit rockets right at my guys feet, which he failed to field well. As the years went by I never saw a player subjected to ground balls like that again at PG evaluations! My son's coach (manager) was a piece of work that few liked and everyone knew, however he always recruited well. Anyway, my guy was graded a 7.5 after that outing. A year later he was a 9.

Yes, I have to agree with this:

quote:

I will bet there is a difference in what a scout sees in a player vs. what a parent sees.

Keep in mind that Perfect Game scouts not only watch TENS OF THOUSANDS of top players throughout the year, most of the scouts have been at it for many years. So they have seen the players progress from 16-yr-old thru the college and professional levels.

They are professional scouts and know what to look for. They can evaluate not just how good a player is today, but how much potential he has for higher levels. (Though as PGStaff will say, they cannot always predict how hard the player will work to fulfill or even exceed that potential.)

Julie

quote:

Originally posted by MN-Mom:
Yes, I have to agree with this:

quote:

I will bet there is a difference in what a scout sees in a player vs. what a parent sees.

Keep in mind that Perfect Game scouts not only watch TENS OF THOUSANDS of top players throughout the year, most of the scouts have been at it for many years. So they have seen the players progress from 16-yr-old thru the college and professional levels.

They are professional scouts and know what to look for. They can evaluate not just how good a player is today, but how much potential he has for higher levels. (Though as PGStaff will say, they cannot always predict how hard the player will work to fulfill or even exceed that potential.)

Julie

Good post Julie, PG definetly knows what they are doing, no one can take that away from them. And as far as the rating and ranking, those are just numbers, the player has to work very hard for the rewards, pure talent just doesn't always work for most.

TPM,
I couldn't agree more with you on using the videos and ranking as a learning tool. My son and his friends looked at their videos together and commented on each others performance. They went right out to the field and started working on what they needed to improve on. By the way, they don't even have their ratings yet and realize that each individual coach is going to be looking for different things in the players they like.

Lots of money for very little. Never met a coach in college who gives a rip about someone else's one day ranking. They need to see you, and they do not rely on perfect game to tell them who they should look at or not. They are called perfect scam for a reason. Play for the best summer program you can. All colleges in the area watch them closely. Put your summer coach to work for you it is a big part of his job. Why do you play for them and pay? To participate in a program that plays top level league and showcase tournaments so you can be seen. Your summer coach knows this and it is a big part of his job to get you into the next level if he can't do that upcoming studs will choose a different program that can. They are a pipeline to college coaches they have each other on speed dial. your summer coach is his grocery store.

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
Lots of money for very little. Never met a coach in college who gives a rip about someone else's one day ranking. They need to see you, and they do not rely on perfect game to tell them who they should look at or not. They are called perfect scam for a reason. Play for the best summer program you can. All colleges in the area watch them closely. Put your summer coach to work for you it is a big part of his job. Why do you play for them and pay? To participate in a program that plays top level league and showcase tournaments so you can be seen. Your summer coach knows this and it is a big part of his job to get you into the next level if he can't do that upcoming studs will choose a different program that can. They are a pipeline to college coaches they have each other on speed dial. your summer coach is his grocery store.

So what if you live in one part of the country and you want to play somewhere else? How does the coach help you in that regard? No one ever said that PG'as showcases should take teh place of being seen by scouts and coaches.

No one has to do anything they don't want to do. We live in a very visible area and we sent son to his first and only PG showcase (other than National) so he could get an idea of how he measured up to those in his graduationg class, since the programs recruiting him did so on a national level. The importance of it was what he learned about himself and how to improve. I do beleive that his rating led to an out of state recruiter taking time out to watch him in Jupiter, not sure if it had been for that he would have come to watch and gone to play for him.

No one ever said that a PG ranking or rating should take the place of playing in front of coaches and scouts.

I also think that it helps the player to focus in on a good fit but that is JMO.

TPM
Good point. PG is a tool that may yield benefit however the cost benefit analysis to me says their are better ways. If you want to play out of area showcase out of area. I think a call from a well respected summer program and coach to that school would do more than a name and ranking in a database of thousands. Your son just being in Juniper may have played the biggest role. I would absolutely love to hear what drew your sons coach to him initially. Was I Juniper itself, another coach who knew he was looking for what you son had or PG. We do all of these things to get noticed. HEY COACH WHAT DID IT! WE ALL WANT TO KNOW

quote:

They are called perfect scam for a reason.

Seattlestars16,

Actually, I've only heard that from one person. We banned his team and he still begs to get back in, but we won't allow it.

I can understand that PG is not for everyone. I can believe it might be too expensive for some people. And I already know that college coaches and scouts want to see players and I know we can't help every player be successful. However, please believe me... There is not any "scam" involved in any way! I hope you come to realize that some day.

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
TPM
Good point. PG is a tool that may yield benefit however the cost benefit analysis to me says their are better ways. If you want to play out of area showcase out of area. I think a call from a well respected summer program and coach to that school would do more than a name and ranking in a database of thousands. Your son just being in Juniper may have played the biggest role. I would absolutely love to hear what drew your sons coach to him initially. Was I Juniper itself, another coach who knew he was looking for what you son had or PG. We do all of these things to get noticed. HEY COACH WHAT DID IT! WE ALL WANT TO KNOW

Yes being in Jupiter played a big role, but my understanding that the coach made inquiries to PG before that time. Also, understand as a RHP junior he was just hitting magic 90.
My son played for coaches that had great contacts, one of them being that coach, they only attested to his make up as a player, the rest he did on the field, he didn't need to have a travel coach sell him to a college coach, one of the reasons being that his showcase experience helped him to understand what he needed to do to improve, even with a good rating and ranking. We used that showcase as a tool, not just as another notch on the fence, I think that LauraZA got my point.

And I am not a coach, I am a mom, and a supporter of PG, who supports us here on the HSBBW.

I do understand that the costs are much more than they were years ago. However, that is why I suggest that parents use their limited funds wisely and a PG showcase may be for some a good investment, even if it's just once.

BTW, it's JUPITER.

I see that you live in Seattle, good baseball up there and good contacts.
Now let's suppose your son wants to go play bb on the east coast, let's say he wants to go play at UNC. Are you telling me that he's going to go by your sons travel coach's word on his skills, a guy who you are paying to play) or he is going to look into the PG database (or any database) to see what he could come up with, from someone who has an unbiased opinion (if he is unable to see him play for himself).
Chances are that they may suggest that he comes to a camp, and that might cost a whole lot more than a PG showcase.

quote:

Originally posted by seattlestars16:
Lots of money for very little. Never met a coach in college who gives a rip about someone else's one day ranking. They need to see you, and they do not rely on perfect game to tell them who they should look at or not. They are called perfect scam for a reason. Play for the best summer program you can. All colleges in the area watch them closely. Put your summer coach to work for you it is a big part of his job. Why do you play for them and pay? To participate in a program that plays top level league and showcase tournaments so you can be seen. Your summer coach knows this and it is a big part of his job to get you into the next level if he can't do that upcoming studs will choose a different program that can. They are a pipeline to college coaches they have each other on speed dial. your summer coach is his grocery store.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it is always disturbing when they make slanderous or negative comments with nothing to back it up.

My son attended several PG events in his senior year. We were amazed at all the scouts that attended the events, and the professionalism the PG staff exhibited. My son received a very good rating and received very good exposure. Yet the school that he eventually went to had not watched him at a PG event nor considered his rating when making an offer. A cynic would say that the time, money, and effort put into those PG events was wasted. An ignorant person might even claim that PG events were a scam. Yet I came out of it with just the opposite point of view. They are a professional organization that gives kids the opportunity to showcase their talent. Never is there a promise that attending one of their events will lead to stardom or a college scholarship even if your son performs well.

So while I normally do not call out people for their posts, I do take umbrage with those who cast aspersions that are not based in fact. I think you should retract your slanderous comment, and should apologize for it!
Failing that, you have no decency and should be persona non grata from this day forward.

Yes Jupiter (typo) sounds like your son benefitted from "all of the above" lots of good exposure decisions, work and talent. That does seem to be the most common route to success rather than one lucky shot or all gags in one basket. they are all tools rely on none alone. As for coaches listening to Sumer clubs that most of us pay my experience is that they will listen and follow up. They all know that a quality summer coach and program will not lie and over sell a kid. If they do they will lose their greatest asset TRUST and they will soon be finished. Who knows better PG after a day or summer coach who works with the kid every day and can speak to talent and character. Around here the college coaches will give him more weight than PG. This is the best site available for great information and advice. PG is a huge part of that. Make no mistake they do benefit monetarily from that. It's just good business and no problem with that

I wonder how many players on the University of Washington and Washington State rosters attended PG events in their high school careers...

I for one can attest to the benefit of PG. My son signed with a very good D1 baseball program in Texas because he attended a Pg Showcase in Houston, Texas. He was spotted by the recruiting coordinator at the event. The head coach called my son every week and invited him for a visit to the campus. The rating and film of his hitting and throwing sealed the deal. If I had to rely on his travel team coach and organization let alone his high school coach, I don't know where he would be. Yeah, I wish he could have been invited to the National Showcase but at the end of the day they got it right. To call them a scam is wrong. I have found Jerry Ford to be an above board man who I have the upmost respect. Maybe, you should focus your anger on your travel team organization and do an analysis on what percentage of players were signed. Please do not include those players who they list on their website without determining how long those players played with the organization. A fall session or summer session in which the player had already verballed before they joined the organization should not be included-my opinion only.

Mr. Crowell,
I have to agree with Vector, never is there any promise that one will get a scholarship offer or drafted, they just provide you with an opportunity to showcase your skills.

And yes, it is a business and they make money.

But that doesn't warrant the comment that was made here by you, "they are called perfect scam for a reason".

vector does not like my opinion of PG events and his/her opinion is different therefore I should apologize I have no decency and I should have no opinion of my own all because I brought up the well known fact many people refer to perfect game as perfect scam. Vector you have exposed yourself as a tyrant go away you'll have to get your much needed attention elsewhere

PGSTAFF-
I have read a great many of your posts and you are a wonderful resource and I'm glad your here. That term may be a regional thing I don't know but PG is not that big in the northwest. They tell you what they are selling you and give you what they promise. The value of what they sell you from the marketing people they employ makes it sound extremely valuable and important. It is up to each to decide if the wonderful marketing is as good as the real product. many benefit many that I have seen go maybe wasting their money. Free choice