PG Showcase Interrpretation

Why don't you just contact PG ????

I really didn't think that they give individual help. I guess I can try.

David,

I will save you the time. The above report and most things on these reports are descriptions (information). While a busy swing might not describe ideal technique, there have been many top major league hitters who do things that would be described as busy. This usually describes the style a hitter uses before the launch in the swing. It just means that the hitter uses a style that would not be considered simple. It does not mean he can or can't hit, but the other comments do and they describe him as someone who can hit.

Hope that helps some.

Thanks, that does help me understand better. I appreciate your comments. And, we look forward to more as he attends more of your events over the next 2+ years.

David

DavidW might be able to better understand it but I don't

I realize that no one can truly get a complete and total read on a players skills in a 10-12 ball bp round. I know that no one wants to say something that might truly hurt the players future.

If most of the report is a description of information, how much weight can be placed on this as a scouting report. I like that adjectives are positive and look to highlight a players positive element.

The write up seems to be some what double speak.

What is trying the be said? What does it mean when it is stated that all to comments do indicate the player can hit. Didn't PG explain the that there are players in the big leagues who hit with busy swing. Why would they consider this less than desirable.

PG reports seem wordy and attempt to give parents something for the fee they pay, but in the end they say little to distinguish top players. Every comment can have different meanings to who ever reads it, similiar to a horoscope. Pick any horoscope and it could fit you.

Wow, I understand you are expressing your opinion. I also can appreciate PG balancing the business aspect within their reports. As I read through many reports I can see things that indicate less than desirable performance in some players balanced with not wanting to deter a young player from sticking with it and trying to improve. A company does not usually grow and become so popular unless there is merit to what they do.

I am not one of those dads who thinks his kid is the greatest, in fact I am usually his harshest critic. Here is how I interpreted PG report (I was just unsure of the swing part which led to my post here)

Smooth defensive actions, sound fundamentals in the OF, also played IF, good actions, soft hands, profiles best in IF. (A positive report at both IF & OF. While a kid can always improve, he plays well at both IF & OF)

Busy rock back load, wide stance, aggressive swing, some bat speed needs to work on bat speed, not terrible though) , solid mid field contact, has some hitting tools, projects well with added strength. (good consistent hitter, needs to keep improving & get stronger. Pretty good for now as a sophomore with upside potential) Excellent student.

Did not say the report does not have merit.
I see every report as a positive report, even those who point out areas that need work.
I would want a report that point out area's that need work on, so a player can work on these things.

I just see it as a progress report with out trying to be too harsh on the players, which is good.

Your son's report looks good to me when I read it, but my point was, I understand how some descriptions in many reports are up for interpetation by the reader. That's where I see the grey area.
Adjectives like "good", "pretty good", "not terrible" are all up to the reader to evaluate and can me something totally different to each reader. That's where I see the "horoscope approach"

Many folks will put so much weight into the report and have their hopes rise and fall on such.

I just get confused as to the target audience of these reports. College coaches, players/players parents.
Is it meant as a resume builder or resource for a player to use to form a game plan to improve skills.
Some parents I hear speaking really have their hope rise and fall on these reports, I just don't see it that way.

That's all. Keep working sound like good things ahead.

I appreciate your clarification. I would assume that there is no one target for these reports. They are meant for the player, parents and scouts (college or otherwise). I would also assume that scouts who have been around the PG reports before know how to draw their own conclusion based on the language used to determine the potential of a player and if they may want to see them in person down the road. Also as in the case of my son, to compare the progress they make from one outing to another.

It has to be a balancing act to choose the right words to maintain their reputation as a reliable source for scouts, not damage the self esteem of kids and to let parents know (as well as players) where they need to make their most improvements. For example, the fact that they didn't mention at all anything about my son's speed (or lack of in this particular event, and even though they can plainly see it above the comments)says that he needs to work on it or figure out what held him back this time.

"Some hitting tools" says to me that (in this particular outing)he has hitting ability, performed well hitting at midfield but need to keep working and improving his strength and his "hitting tools". This as opposed to not mentioning hitting at all or talking about hitting but not saying "has some hitting tools"

As for parents whose hopes (and usually more so pride) rise and fall on one event, or any event need to get a grip on reality. Realize that as much as they want their kids to be "the best", that group is very, very limited. Focus their attention on helping their kids improve and to make sure they know and are ready to deal with, riding the baseball wave as far as it will take them but to make sure they seriously consider other things in life they enjoy doing that they can earn a living at.

Of course I could be totally wrong about my interpretations and everything else I have said But that is the way I see it.

Take care
David

David,

I think you have a very good and realistic view on all this.

It is difficult to describe certain things completely. We know that we can’t cut kids down on something as public as PG.org. So saying things as politely as possible becomes a high priority. We also know we can’t be untruthful to the college recruiters and scouting community.

I’m not sure exactly who your son is, but the report looks very good to me and I’m betting it is very accurate. At the same time his file within our database will have the unedited notes that were turned in by our scouts. These notes are used to write the short report, but the most negative comments stay in our database. The database also contains individual grades for all the tools and many other things. Scouts and college coaches know that we have much more information than what is seen by the general public. That is why we are contacted daily by many of these people for more information about players.

Let’s take a look at the player profile and what it does provide for the college coach or professional scout. For this example I will use someone on the highest end regarding prospect status. A guy who would have mostly positive notes, high grades and good reports.

First there is the photo of the player along with event attended

Then there is his general info - Pos/B-T/Ht-Wt/Hometown/St/High School/Summer Team/Fall Team/College if committed

Then there is a grade (1 to 10) that we place on the player. 10 being the highest. In this example the player was graded a 10.

Then there is a link to any video we have on the player, so scouts/recruiters can get a glimpse of that player

Then there is a link to pgcrosschecker (for subscribers) to get further information, reports, history and rankings on the player

Then there is the specific event information, once again starting with the player info

Then there is the specific times and radar readings for throwing and running the 60 that might show the track conditions. If a player needs to improve in these areas, it is very obvious by the information listed. We do not need to write that the kid who runs 8.5 is slow or the kid who throws 65 mph from the outfield has a weak arm.

Then there is another link for video from that event at baseballwebtv

Then there is the written report. In this case here was the report for that event.

*** ******* is a 2008 SS with a 6'2'', 191 lb. frame from ********, GA who attends ******* HS. Strong athletic build. Top level athlete, extremely fast (6.33) with fast twitch actions. Electric hands with bat, explosive quickness, ball jumps hard, simple hitting approach, sees the ball and attacks it, power to all fields. Fluid defensive actions, has some flash, can make all the plays. Elite level athlete with baseball skills.

Would this create any interest in this player? Is this a lot of double talk?

Then within our database we have reports and scout notes on this player from 15 different events. A complete history on this player that covers four years and some of the reports are much more detailed. The amount of scouting notes in our database on this one player are amazing. Here are just some of the many unedited scout notes on him in the PG database….

very athletic build, quick bat, runs well, Top level player future

ath, good bat speed, smoked curve, runs, does everything

good sure hands, good athlete, bat is behind other tools

swings it well, nice hit over LF, good instincts on bases, open stance,

great hands at 3B, good range, good arm, game is easy

slightly open stance, hit ball to deep CF, hit foul ball about 380 ft, smooth and quick swing

great looking athlete, could be a big leaguer

Quick bat. HR, smooth fielding SS with + actions, room for more, has time to grow, good player, open stance, good power, good looking athlete, definite future DI or draft

good actions, plus runner, needs to use all of his tools. Great range and actions.

Open stance. Has short quick swing, gets out of box and down line very well. Open stance, shows bat speed, abv avg arm. 08 follow, (BC) Aflac type guy, quick bat, easy to pull side, stays inside, flat plane, short stroke, runs well, excellent acceleration, good range, strong arm. Slight open stance, good lead off guy, quick hands.

(Robertson- lean, nice arm, quick hands, good range, 4.51 on turn, centers ball, pop) Simpson- struggled during game, seemed a bit overmatched at the plate, wasn't ready at the plate 10) (Perry - quick smooth hands, plus arm, open stance, BJ upton like, 9)

loose fluid body, + range, easy actions, follows throws, big league actions, high draft//

by far the best player on the field, 4.21//quick bat - power, ball jumps off bat, 4.23//hitter's hands, bspd, awful pants//

great body, quick hands, good speed, all the tools are there

BC: quick release, can play on run, soft hands, throws can get little wild and he can get a little sloppy, good actions, game comes easy, can throw from different angles (9)//fluid, easy actions, follow throws, soft hands, bounce in step, fast twitch, A-9, F-10//flashy fielder//

simple swing, bat speed, hits with hands, electric wrists, sees/hits, hit a bomb (9+/dr). BC: BP/good bat speed, little early, narrow set-up, flashed juice, hands work well, loose wrists, some explosiveness in there, see it and hit it (9).

BC: game/quick bat, open stance, +hack, aggressive, stays inside, plays hard, short to ball, jumped on hanging SL, lots +contact, 4.40T//4.25, 4.40 turn//open, 4.33, + batspd, will hit, + hands, good trigger, 9- very early draft guy

BC//hard barrel contact, longer swing, has juice, has good actions, gets too cute, 4.46 RH//4.41, narrow base, short load, high stride, all pull, upper path, + pull pop, ++ bspd, 9H, 10P//med base, good load, good bs, ok bal, solid contact, rotational

REPORT: ******* might be the most talented player in the class. It was appropriate that Ozzie Smith was the Aflac Spokesman this year because ******* plays with that Ozzie type flair. He has Latin American shortstop actions with great athleticism. ******* was the starting point guard on his highly ranked high school team as a freshman, before giving up basketball to concentrate on baseball. We think that is going to become a very valuable decision on his part. The game is easy for this kid. His swing is effortless and fluid, very smooth and athletic. The ball jumps off his bat in a hurry and he’s a plus runner with great first step quickness and body control. ******* looks the part in every way and he’s going to get stronger in the future. He’s been on our radar for a long time, so nothing he accomplishes in the future would be much of a surprise. To top it off, he has great makeup and you can see how much he enjoys the game because he smiles a lot while he plays at full speed. *** ******* was named the MVP of this years Aflac Game. He had three RBI's with a triple and a sac fly that drove in the winning run in the ninth. He will be one of the first picks next year.

Very athletic, can do everything very well, outstanding in Cincy, MVP at Aflac, good in PG WWBA Jupiter, obvious early draft pick, signed with Southern Cal. Maybe #1 in the nation for draft.

There are too many notes to post them all. But I’m sure everyone would understand that this was far from just another player.

Note: The player written about above became the first pick of the 2008 draft, the notes above were taken from 2004 through 2007.

PGStaff,

This was an excellent post!!! Thank you very much for such a detailed insight as to what is kept track of, how it is written and what is and is not up for public view. Cudos to you and your staff.

I feel this thread will be very, very beneficial to many, many parents and players. It gives great insight and takes the mystery out of much of this. So much so that the moderator should consider making this post / thread a sticky for all current & future members to find easily.

Thank you again for the insight and the time you took to write it.
David

PG, what is the typical amount of time delay between a showcase and the ratings showing up on your website?

I imagine it takes a fair amount of time to review all the video to make such detailed observations.

Thanks!

biggerpapi,

It varies depending on many factors. Usually the very quickest will be about two weeks, but sometimes it will take as long as 6 weeks or more. If it is a small event it can be quicker. We try to get the most urgent stuff up quicker. (That would involve time sensitive things, like the predraft or unsigned senior events)

Often it depends on how soon we have the video (if available) ready to review. Sometimes it depends on the time of year or number of participants. Sometimes it depends on our tech people and data entry people. The actual profile with photo and basic information is ready to go up in days after an event, but film viewing, entering notes into the database, writing, editing, tech work, etc. takes much longer.

We actually are getting better at this stuff and have a much larger staff. Also regarding this subject... Probably the most troublesome thing is when we see our information copied and pasted on other sites without permission. We spend a small fortune and employ many people to compile the information. It costs a lot of money, takes a lot of people and a lot of work to compile the large volume of information, only to see those who spend practically nothing and simply by copying copyrighted information make it look like they have compiled that information. Then they sometimes sell subscriptions to others to view our information. We notice this a lot when we make a mistake and see it show up as the same exact mistake on other sites. Some have even entered the event business using our information to help promote how good they are. It’s very obvious and unlikely they made the same exact mistake that we made. We have thought about suing, but usually the people infringing on the copyright have very little invested and don’t have much to lose. I think we will anyway, though.

Sorry, I know you didn’t ask about that, but it is frustrating. Hope the first part somewhat helped answer your question, though in “definite maybe” sort of way.

You did answer my question perfectly. And I can hear and understand your frustration.

Thanks for the reply.

Our personal experience is that the PG evaluations do tend to highlight the positives and not overly criticize the negatives.

I think that is a good idea for 3 reasons:

1. Kid may have been a little tight, and some flaws are more evident when the kid is nervous. As mentioned, certain flaws are not that big of a deal if they can be overcome with other attributes.
The positives are usually not accidental! Even when not at their best,things like foot speed, arm strength, bat speed, body-type are very evident.

2. Yes, it is a good marketing tool. I don't blame them for this. I've seen some reports that were obviously trying to be kind, but you can read between the lines.

3. These kids love the "strokes" that they get from these reports! In our case, it gave my Son the encouragement he needed to really work hard to improve. Any kid who gets a 9 or 10 and is satisfied will never make it!

My Son was rated an "8" at a showcase 2 years ago, before he had a chance to play in any PG or WWBA-type tournaments. He has grown 2 inches and gained 25 ponds since then.

It turned out to right-on as he ended up signing with a mid-level D-1.

Note that all of the ratings are preceded by the word "potential" or "possible". I interpret that to mean if the kid works hard to improve, has the right approach and attitude, and his body fills out in the right places.

Papi, just FYI. It took about a month to put up the evals for the National Underclassmen Main Event (>400 players) in late December, and the videos just went up in the last week or so. It was well worth the wait.

2B got a respectable 7, with a very positive eval. We were very happy since he is just a sophomore. We know he is not very fast, and in the infield skills portion he threw more for accuracy than velo, so that probably hurt him, too. All expected. But the eval was so positive that one of the dads on our team said to me "that looks just like you wrote it. Did you write it?"

Smooth infield actions, advanced footwork/balance, quick release...simple contact approach, good swing path...and especially "projects well with added strength, should keep improving. Very good student."

It was great motivation, and great confirmation at the same time. Positives and negatives laid out very clearly. I do know some folks who took it a little more seriously, but we took it as a starting point. I also know of one player (not on our team) that had a review that said, "minimal strength," which was a nice way of saying "weak." I really think they try to be objective and fair.

In fact, I'm proud to share.
http://www.perfectgame.org/pla...ofile.aspx?ID=194415