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This is in response to the pitch sequence thread in the general forum but since I'm using a Pony 13 all-star team as an example I posted it in here.

My starter last night essentially threw the ball by the first three hitters. We went up 6-0 in the bottom of the first. We were playing on an all turf HS field that was 405 to center.
In the second inning my starter gave up a well hit fly ball over our centerfielder's head for an inside the park home run. My outfielders moved back. My pitcher got through the inning. In the third inning they started making contact but we had a lead and were still throwing almost all fastballs. With two outs 1 run in and the bases loaded my pitcher showed great hustle getting to a little pop up just foul down the first base line that my first baseman should have been camped under. My pitcher dropped it. They then scored 4 runs with two outs as my pitcher struggled with his control and fell behind hitters and was forced to throw fastballs over the plate.

My son then started the 4th inning with the score tied 6 to 6. A single, a WP, a strikeout on a shoulder high fastball that the catcher missed resulted in runners on 1st and 2nd. Another error resulted in bases loaded. My son tends to throw his first curve in the dirt so we stuck with the fastball and he retired the next three hitters with no runs scored. The next inning he came out and was locating the fastball. He got the first two batters quickly and then we started the third hitter with a curve...in the dirt. We went back to the fastball but he gave up a walk. He got the next hitter throwing fastballs. The next inning he wasn't locating the fastball as well and got behind on hitters. They began to get hits, some bloopers, some clean and with bases loaded and no outs a routine fly to short left was misplayed. A hit batter and a bases loaded walk later I pulled him. Only 2 curves and no changes in 2+ innings of work. Any wonder they hit him the second time around the lineup? The reliever walked in a run and then got hit pretty hard resulting in our being down 13-6. We managed to get back to 13-11 with two outs and bases loaded and our #12 hitter at the plate (warmup tournament and both teams batting the full lineup). My 1b coach tells him to take the first pitch and not swing at anything high, since they'd put in a new pitcher and he'd been wild high warming up. He swings at a pitch over his head. He then takes two low pitches. He then swings at another pitch over his head. I tell him to stay aggressive, that I don't want him to take a strike. He takes a fastball, waist high down the middle for strike three.

The moral of the story is that you have to establish that you can throw an off speed pitch for a strike to make your fastball effective if you are going to face more than a few hitters. My coach called the last game, I'll be calling the next one.
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CADad:

The reality is that the level of defensive play will effect your pitcher. Lots of times a pitcher will pitch well enough to win and get beat. However your have to keep asking the pitcher to learn his craft and pitch the way he know he should with out regard sometimes to the outcome. As he progresses the level of his defense will as well and you'll see the improvement in the outcomes. Just becasue a kid and blow hitters away the first time around does not mean he should not establish his other pitches. If your catcher can't handle the BB in the dirt you should still throw it if that is what the situation demands. The catcher will learn how to handle it. If your outfielders don't go back well on balls don't play them out of position to cover up. Continue to work with them in practice and let them learn how to do it right in games. Being the father of a pitcher I know it is tough but you have to have him take responsibility for what he has control over, making his pitches and defending his position. He can't worry about the rest of it. Tell him when he executes his gameplan perfectly then he can worry that his defense does not do the same.
CADad:

We have kind of the same problem on our Jr. Division LL team. My son doesn't throw a curve ball, just a "slurve" ball. He often throws it for strikes, but, sometimes, it does end up in the dirt although the batter will swing at..lol

Our catch-22 situation is as follows:

We drafted a 13 year-old catcher who is very good at blocking balls, but doesn't have great arm for throwing out runners. We also have a 14 year-old catcher, who has a great arm, but can't block pitches in the dirt.

I can't count the number of times a dropped third strike turned into a passed ball, allowing the runner to reach first or the number of times a throw to second bounced twice..lol

My son has learned to block all that out and just pitch the best he can. After all, you win as a team and lose as a team. It's just frustrating, but you learn to laugh it off. I know next year when the kid goes to high school, the players at all the positions will be better.

BTW, we won our Jr. Division title this year and won our first TOC game yesterday, so life is good so far..lol

Garry
3rdgen,
He just started throwing the curve in March. When I say the first curve is in the dirt I mean in the dirt in front of the plate and 3 feet outside. I expect a lot out of my catchers but I don't expect them to stop that one. We don't work on the curve all that much and it takes him a while to find it in the pen and then no matter what the first one in a game is in the dirt and outside. Just a mental thing that he'll get over in time but we couldn't afford it in the 4th inning of a tie game with the bases loaded. The 1st two batters in the 5th were gone quickly and we did try to get the curve working on the next hitter but never got it established in the hitter's minds. Then he started out the 6th inning getting behind on hitters.

Garry,
We're playing in a Pony 13 warmup tournament. It looks like we'll be the 3 seeds from our bracket after pool play. A little luckier draw and we could have easily been the 1 seed from our bracket. We're the B team and our A team will almost certainly be the 1 seed from the other bracket.
Last edited by CADad
CADad:

I've been the primary instructor for a lot of catchers and I'll tell you that that pitch should be blocked. The fact that it is predictable gives the catcher a big advantage. Some of the best BBs are almost never thrown for a strike, if they were strikes they don't get called any way but they break down in the dirt and can be blocked easily and softly so your catcher can throw out the runner after a swinging K.
3rdgen,
You must be visualizing a sweeping curve that a batter might offer at that ends up in the dirt way outside. My son's curve is fairly sharp, and mostly breaks down and if he misses by that much it is mostly miss and not break that causes it. I've never seen a hitter come close to offering when he misses that badly. I'd love to see that first pitch in the dirt just behind the plate and about 6 inches off the corner because there'd be a pretty good chance he'd get a swinging strike and I'd expect the catcher to get his body in front of it and hope he'd get it turned in and block it out toward the front of the plate.
Last edited by CADad
CADad:

I'd prefer the type of BB your describing. He'll have to get more accurate of course, but if he's throwing it hard with a sharp, late break it will be more difficult pitch for good hitters to lay off. It also means he is developing good arm speed for his FB. Keep encouraging him to throw it when he gets ahead. Many pitchers end up developing two different BBs. The "get it over" BB and the "swing and miss BB". I'd still expect the catcher to be able to block it unless it is a 55 footer that hops over his head. A particular pitchers' BBs tend to move in a predictable manner that gives a catcher familiar with it a head start to blocking it.
Smile
3rdgen,
Agreed. I threw a big 12 to 6 and also threw a slider that at times turned into a slurve. I'd also make a bit of an adjustment if I saw any bailing out and go 2 to 8 with the curve. If I couldn't control or couldn't get the calls on the 12 to 6 I'd pick up the velocity.

Mine needs to learn the "get it over" for now. If he can throw it anywhere close to 50% strikes, including swings at pitches that would've missed the zone he'll be pretty effective at the level he's pitching at.

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