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I'd be surprised if this hasn't been discussed before, but I can't find it in my searches:  What sort of speed differentials do college coaches want to see between HS pitchers' various pitches?  
 
And before anyone take me to task--I know velo and stats aren't the only factor in evaluating pitchers and that velo is just one factor in off-speed pitches (and not the most important one).  But pitch speed is an objective measurement and therefore easy to compare.  Also, I'm just curious.
 
1)  2-seam fastball versus 4-seam?  How much slower would you typically expect a 2-seam to be for a HS pitcher who has D1/D2/D3 potential?  (I also was wondering how this plays into the "average fastball velo" stat that PG keeps.  Obviously the more you mix in 2-seamers, the lower your "average.")
 
2)  Curve ball?  How much velo difference do coaches want to see?  How big a difference is too big, since it gives hitters more time to react?  Or are there too many different curve ball types to even say?
 
3)  Change-up?  I have always heard a very good MLB change is about 10 mph off the fastball (not sure if 2- or 4-seam) (and delivered with the same arm action, of course).
 
4)  Slider?
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Its not a bad question.  But I don't think there's a formula.  What is important are a) does he throw different pitches from the same arm slot and release point, b) is his arm speed the same for those pitches, c) does he throw 2 or 3 of them with good command (not quite the same as control).

Ideally, a pro scout wants a lot of velocity, but across three pitches he wants to see they go in different directions and that they have three different speeds.  2 or 3 mph isn't different enough.  Control (as in he isn't throwing one of his pitches past the catcher routinely) is important, command is too, but not quite as much.

A college coach puts a premium on command (with good-enough velocity).

If folks conclude the answer is that “there is no answer,” then that would answer my question.  

But if there is no ideal “formula,” maybe we can get some consensus on what would be typical for a player bound for D1/D2/D3?  There are outliers, maybe a lot of them, but I would think there is a pretty large cluster of pitchers that look similar in each group. (?)

Last edited by Chico Escuela

2019Dad - our older son only threw a 2-seamer back then.  He liked it cause it had more run on it.  Didn't seem to matter to coaches or scouts, but he was consistently over 90 w/ that 2-seamer.   Usually a 4-seamer is a little faster.

2-seam vs. 4-seam - 2-4 mph difference would be a good thing.

Chico - Our older son throws 3 pitches (he is now a triple-A pitcher...briefly in the big leagues a few years ago - he was a D1 pitcher before that).  Fastball around 94-95, Changeup around 86-87, curveball around 81-82.  3 directions, 3 speeds.  I don't remember the differences in HS or college.  He was 2-4 mph slower then, I believe they all scaled down in a similar manner.  But comparing someone who reached a high level of baseball might not be fair for the normal D1 pitcher.

 

Last edited by justbaseball
younggun posted:

“Tunneling” simply means all pitches start on the same path for the first 1/2 to 2/3 of the 60’6”. Same concept as use same arm slot just more focus on ball rather than arm. You will see guys like Kyle at driveline show video of different pitches overlaid. 

Taking advantage of the opportunity to post a cool video of Yu Darvish’s pitches overlaid. (Not my video—just a good illustration of the idea.)

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2...es-gif-texas-rangers 

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