Pitching velocity necessary to succeed in college

Thanks J H,

Our team schedule just showed it as a showcase.
If it is the same one Midlo is talking about it I think it is called WWBA/PG WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP-FLORIDA October 27-30. This is the one we are headed to.

That's the right one. And I guess technically it's not a showcase in the sense that they don't do SPARQ testing or any kind of individual skills analysis. It's all games. BUT the scouting is thorough and as a LHP your son will get seen. If he does well the word will be out on him in short order. If he does really well he may make the PGCrosschecker daily blog reports.

We had a local kid, a stud LHP himself, join a premier team last summer for the WWBA 17u and 18u events. He did very well and made the blogs. He already had a handshake deal for a scholly but the buzz about him got so big that the school upped his deal to make sure he stayed in the fold!

I understand there are actually more scouts at this fall event than in the summer. Glad you're going already, good luck, and let us know how it all turns out!

P.S.

We may even see you there, not sure yet!

Actually, Sparq testing will take place for those individuals and teams that wish to be tested.

Just to be clear... The players on the PG teams in this event are by invitation only. Unless a player is very talented, he should not attend. Those who have been there before can tell you why!

PG

you have a PM

A few years back my son went to a Pitching clinic @ Illinois State. That same question cam up to Coach Brownlee. How hard do you need to throw to play Div I ball, He simply stated that what he looks for in a pitcher is one who can cosistanly miss the bat. I thought about it and he is truly right. He stated that they can increase a pitchers velocity it they work at through long toss and running>Just keep pluging away at it.

wow this really is amazing. I never realized this was such a broad topic! Well, to answer some of you, certainly no I haven't topped out yet from a physical or velocity standpoint. I've been told that with hard work I will be consistant 82-84 the spring of next year.

Also, grades are certainly not an issue as I have a 3.85/4.0 and projected ACT score of 28.

Thanks for everyone's help.

Also, a great piece of advice some coaches have given me is that maybe I shouldn't worry so much about velocity and "oh I need to be at this speed to to go here or do this"

perhaps the best to do would just be to work hard, be proactive, and let the cards fall where they may.

Prov...

Know the old SICA West...

Had sons at LWEast and a lefty who is now a sophomore.

Happy to talk with you about college and baseball scholarships.

Had an older son play at Mississippi State.
Another son now at Princeton.

Ask your mom and dad if it's ok to talk with me...john petrulis 815-469-4520

oh wow yes you're definitely from the area! i believe i remember your son playing too he was a senior when i was a freshman. if i remember correctly. I would've actually gone to LW East if it wasn't for Providence

quote:

minimum needed was 84-85 on the Jugs (thats 81-82 on the Stalker).

This is an urban legend that doesn't die. Modern Jugs and Stalkers read about the same. I've seen them used side by side and have watched hundreds of readings. Readings bounce all around on both guns. Two $900 Stalkers can differ by several mph even when side by side.

From my experience, Jugs may read a tiny bit higher on average than Stalkers over say 1000 readings. On a given pitch, Stalker might be 4 mph higher.

Provi Celtics '08

Wow! You've really started a great discussion.. I'm voting today to have this one considered for the Golden Threads. A whole 3 pages now and no name calling!

Please go to the general discussion board and see my post on "Average Velocity Increases". It will give you a wag as to the velocity increase you might expect between your sophomore and junior years. In a nutshell, 2-5 MPH depending upon how hard you work!

As for the Jugs vs. Stalker issue, there are tons of posts on that issue, and from what I've learned the Stalker is about 3 MPH less. I perused the Stanford roster and the LHP's there, according to them, are "Upper 80's to Low 90's". I read that to be Upper 80's (Stalker) to Low 90's (Jugs).

quote:

As for the Jugs vs. Stalker issue, there are tons of posts on that issue, and from what I've learned the Stalker is about 3 MPH less. I perused the Stanford roster and the LHP's there, according to them, are "Upper 80's to Low 90's". I read that to be Upper 80's (Stalker) to Low 90's (Jugs).

My experience is that the two brands of guns read the same. A quick reading of the operator's manual for both guns (available on their websites) shows that a Jugs gun only offers peak speed readings, while the Stalker has two modes: the peak speed, or the last speed. But these days "everybody" uses the Stalker in peak mode.
In the linked thread, PGstaff confirms that PG uses Stalkers in peak mode. Relative Performance

quote:

As for the Jugs vs. Stalker issue, there are tons of posts on that issue, and from what I've learned the Stalker is about 3 MPH less.

There ARE many posts here on that subject (and I've read them all)

They tend to go like this:
Newbie Dad: "I hear Jugs read about 2 mph higher than Stalkers."
Old Coach: "Our team owns three Jugs and 2 Stalkers and they read about the same"

quote:

I perused the Stanford roster and the LHP's there, according to them, are "Upper 80's to Low 90's". I read that to be Upper 80's (Stalker) to Low 90's (Jugs).

Isn't it far more likely that some Stanford LHPs are faster than others
Next you'll be claiming that little kids throw 40-60 only because their dads use Busnells

micdsguy,

The Stanford roster range of velocities I mentioned were for the same pitcher. And nearly every one of these pitchers had the same "range" mentioned. And I'm not claiming anything sir, I said that was what I learned. If you believe you are an expert in that area I'll conceded to you, but it's off-topic anyway.

Perhaps the quest for velocity is the reason that many HS coachs are now sending out info regarding their pitchers that is erroneous--listing kids who throw 80/83 as 86/88---I do not know who they think they are helping--it sure ain't the kid

EVERY pitcher has a fastball MPH range, not a set speed.

First of all, not every fastball can be thrown at the same velocity. Even if you were trying to do it, you couldn't. There are just too many vagaries in the human body to make exact replication possible on every pitch.

Secondly, a good pitcher intentionally changes speeds on his fastball. He may use one to "get ahead", another when he wants to finish someone off. If you show your top speed all the time, the batters will ultimately sit on it and time you. Meaning, KABLAM!

Third, there are different fastballs and they move differently. Max velocity is typically achieved with the 4-seam grip. A 2-seamer, thrown for tailing or sinking action, will drop off 2-3 MPH from the pitcher's highest gun reading.

Fourth, many hard throwers lose a few MPH from the stretch.

And finally, some days the kid has more lightning in the arm than on other days. That's just part of being human.

What you have to know when you evaluate a kid is, what is his ceiling? That's the speed he works down from. That's the speed he can call on when he's trying to get one by you.

But no one should take that to mean that every fastball comes in at that speed. It won't, it can't, and it shouldn't.

Few pitchers have a precise top out velocity. While some mature pros are amazingly consistent, youngsters vary from day to day, and their arm may be shot as the season ends.
A few fast pitchers eschew pure heat and rely on 2 seamers and cutters or even slower pitches. For all these reasons, ranges are appropriate.

I'm something of a sports radar expert. Many, many factors affect readings. It has occurred to me that Jugs may read slower as their batteries deplete. I THINK I've seen that happen with Jugs, but not Stalkers.

There are questions of linearity. A gun may be accurate at say 80 but not at 90, or 70.

Some people believe ball spin may affect readings.

Radar readings can definitely be messed up by the presence of nearby guns (and probably other RF sources). Stalker makes a $1700 Pro model that transmits on a higher frequency band for use in intensive scouting situations.

I've seen very good guns produce some really oddball readings. What I haven't seen is a MODERN Jugs gun reading much faster than a MODERN Stalker over time. I emphsize "modern" because both guns have been around for decades. Current Stalkers look the same as guns produced 20 year ago, I believe.

Even the weather and time of day can affect velocity.

quote:

Even the weather and time of day can affect velocity

We know temperature, altitude and humidity affect how far a batted ball soars. I wondered about such things affecting pitching speed.

And I've wondered too about time of day. Has anyone ever researched differences between major league day and night games? Most of us have more "zip" early in the day.

Stalkers have more range and therefore are more useful for scouts in a large stadium setting. According to the Stalker website they actually pick up the ball slightly quicker after release so they should read a tiny bit faster than a JUGS. It is still my experience that JUGS read a mile or two faster than Stalkers. I discount my son's speed on a JUGS by 2 mph relative to the readings I see for Stalkers.

Although there could be a difference in the speed at the plate things like temperature, altitude and humidity should have almost no effect on a peak reading from a radar gun. The pitch has had almost no time to slow down by the time the peak reading is made. Similarly, a two seam fastball should have the same velocity on a gun as a four seam fastball unless the pitcher actually throws it a bit slower, which is probably the case as most pitchers are trying for movement on a two seamer and not staying behind the ball quite as much.

Midlo Dad,
Agree that they shouldn't come in at the same velocity. My son threw 8 out of ten pitches at his max velocity the last time he threw for speed about a year ago. We realized a bit later that was an indication that he was injured and something was putting a limit on how hard he threw. Although he felt fine after that, the next time out he couldn't even hit his normal throwing speed and we got him to a doctor very quickly.

I would like PG Staff to weigh in on this velocity thing, if possible. Me confused. In searching previous posts by him and others it was my understanding that the Stalker typically reads 2-3 MPH slower than the Jugs. If that's not true, as the previous poster states, is that because the "new" stalker is now being used which is equivalent to the Jugs? Can we get to the bottom of this?

Bum,

I hate to get involved in discussions where I disagree with lots of people. But seeing that you asked… No gun is perfect, but the Stalker will most often read 1 or 2 mph slower than the small portable Jugs gun. The very highest velocities we hear about most often come from the portable Jugs gun. Very seldom do I ever remember seeing the Stalker gun give a higher reading than the Jugs on a pitch.

Over the years we have used very many of both types. The main reason we use the Stalker is because it has a much better battery system, less problems, and most importantly it is the gun most often used by MLB scouts and DI colleges. We want to give the same readings that those people are getting.

Sorry if that is different than what some think, but we have lots of experience in this area and the above would be our opinion. And yes it is true that two Stalkers can often get different reads, but if there is a portable Jugs right next to them it will most always have a slightly higher to once in awhile as much as 3-4 mph higher reading than either Stalker. Of course there are always the exceptions, but I think one needs to look at what happens most of the time. Most often the Jugs will read the same or higher… very seldom lower.

Thank you, PG. It's important to me because I needed to calibrate my son's progress. I appreciate the response!

Midlo Dad, excellent explanation to the range of velocities. You have convinced me.