politics

Welcome to HSBBW.

One of the best way to get over politics is have your son just be the best and the coach will utilizes him the most to let him win.

Politics can and do exist at every level of baseball.All you can do is make sure your son is well prepared.If he is good enough, any good coach will have him on the field.You cant wory about politics, just focus on what you can do.ANd dont go into the HS season thinking that will happen. Be positive, and dont mention politcs and all that to your kid.Let him just play and have fun.

A 9th grade lefty throwing in the 80's will overcome a lot of politics. Let him focus on what he can control, which is the effort he puts forth, and don't think about, talk about,or worry about anything else.

You could sum it all up with two words from the third sentence of your post ---- "I'm afraid" ----
Fear Not! Dog you're just experiencing the emotion that all parents feel when they want ONLY the best for their child and you know that might not happen. Matter of fact you KNOW it won't always happen. You can rest assured your child will have the opportunity to do good. He will have his share of game winning hits or get the save in a big game but he will also strike out with the bases loaded and hit into a double play when the team is counting on him. He may even take the "L" in a game ---- Stay positive and welcome to the life of being the parent of an athlete....
Fungo

quote:

Originally posted by war dog:
My son is 9th grade, a lefthand pitcher that thoughs unofficially in the 80's has a mean circle chang, curvball and slider that he gets around the dish. He can hit the ball over 300 ft. oppisite field and is being professionally trained, he is 5'9" 195 lbs, wears size 13 spikes and hasn't really hit his growth spurt yet. I'm afraid that the high school that he is zoned for the coaches play favorites and get the info from outside sources such as father/coaches that will push thier kids, friends etc. out front. I'm not in a position were I can be around all the time due to my job like other fathers. it will be very frustrating seeing jr. odd man out due to the politics in all the high schools in our area...

Not sure where you got your info about the High School Coach, but it sounds like it came from disenchanted parents? We had a similar experience. We were told by some Parents of upperclassmen that it was all about politics and that their Sons were not playing because the Coach brought up 2 Freshman that were highly touted but unproven. One of those Freshman is now playing AA in the Cardinals organization and the other got a D1 scholarship! So, maybe the ones that are saying this are parents of less-than-talented kids?
My Son went through 4 years of this program with absolutely no issues!

Other than the annual intrasquad scrimmage, I never attended a High School baseball practice. Why would you need to? Most Coaches frown on it. Some prohibit it.

On another note, if your Son has a future in baseball, his High School adventure is not near as important as his Summer exposure. Get him on a top-notch Summer team that provides good training and exposure.

Going into HS, son had a new HC, he started on JV, I never worried about his playing time, son took care of that. I have found that parents who worry about their son's future playing time know in the back of their minds junior isn't the best. Now I'm sure there are some places where politics may play a role, but really if your son is a top notch player ( you should know by HS) playing time will not be an issue. I think 99% of coaches want the best chance to win. Even in our son's situation, the new coach wasn't his best supporter but had to because of his abilities as a catcher. And it just so happened the coach's son was our #1 pitcher. So it worked out for son, he and others on his team did not like playing for this man due to his attitude.

This can be much ado about nothing---I have found in my experience that if the player has the talent there is no probem with "politics"---then "politics"
seem to effect the parents of the players of lesser talent who feel their child is being wronged

Let you son do his thing on the field and all will be right with the world

I agree with all said here. Most coaches want to win. Last year on our team, the three starting pitchers were a freshman and two sophmores. There were 2 senior pitchers and a junior on the team. I think when we started the season, the parents of one of the seniors was very disgruntled. However, over the course of the season, he saw how his son performed and how the younger guys did. He wasn't real happy, but he quit grumbling so much.

There will always be some politics. Seniors will usually get preferential treatment, unless an underclassman is head and shoulders above him, but generally the coach wants to win and will play those with the talent to help him do that.

If your son is that good, I wouldn't worry too much. The other thing I wanted to say is, I wouldn't try talking to the coach and promoting him too much. Maybe let him know that he is there so the coach knows generally who he is before tryouts begin, but don't pump him up too much. Coach probably hears how good a parents kid is ad nauseum. And he hears it from parents whose kids really are good as well as from those whose kids are very bad. He has no way to know until the kids hit the field. If your kid has the stuff, he will play. Be confident in that.

If you see a huddle of parents away from the stands with their arms crossed and they don't smile very often, stay away from them. This is the "politics" crowd. They know everything. They alternately award themselves the title of Mr. Baseball. They know more than the coach. They know more than anyone about who should be playing.

I was warned about politics when my son was in middle school and on JV's his freshman year. When he started as a soph the only politics I heard about were the ones I supposedly played to have him be the first soph to start opening day in six years. The dad of the first freshman to ever start opening day heard the same thing. What the complaining parents overlooked was our kids had been playing up in travel for two years and already made 18U scout teams for the upcoming summer.

"Politics" happen to marginal players. The "politics" are the coach decided the player other than the complainer's son has better potential. I've never heard screams of politics from the parents of obvious starters.

Relax. Tell your son to work hard. Have him read How to Make the High School Team.

A lot of good advice....with your son's talent, he will do fine..if not this year then next....bottom line most every coach want to win. They will put the best on the field.

quote:

Originally posted by Fungo:
Fear Not! Dog you're just experiencing the emotion that all parents feel when they want ONLY the best for their child and you know that might not happen. Matter of fact you KNOW it won't always happen. You can rest assured your child will have the opportunity to do good.....Stay positive and welcome to the life of being the parent of an athlete....

True, double-true and triple-true!

wardog - You're feelin' the same way most parents feel when this HS thing begins. Try and relax and let your son's ability do the talking. Haven't met a HS coach yet who didn't want to win. No way (well at least 99 times out of 100) will a coach cut loose a kid who can help him win. Yes, there are a small handfull of knuckleheads out there...but FAR fewer than most parents believe.

Side note: Someone on here made a comment about summer ball being more important than HS ball. That may well be true in many circumstances...probably was for our older son. But I just want to comment that our younger son's HS coach (different HS than older one) is as good as it gets...been doin' this for 25 years, over 500 wins and many, many players on to college and pro ball (including MLB). So in this case, HS ball is at the very least AS important as summer ball, maybe moreso? And this has been confirmed by EVERY SINGLE college coach we have talked too with regards to this HS coach and team and our son's situation. But he also plays in one of the top summer programs...and as one college coach told us, "You've really got the best in both worlds." So don't write off or overlook either one.

I think this topic will always come up here at the hsbaseballweb. Excellent comments thus far...

I have no doubts politics exist at some level in every organization or endeavor. It is part of the human condition imho. With respect to baseball, there are some tools to overcome politics:

1) You cannot control the coach's decision so never discuss politics with your son. Encourage him to lay it all out on the line and let the chips fall where they may. If he comes up short, encourage him to be the best team player on the planet and be prepared for future opportunites.

2) Versatility can defeat politics. If you are a shorstop and the coaches son is a shorstop, it might be a tough gig to beat that kid out. If you can slide over to second or third, you have tripled your chances of playing. If you can play outfield, you have increased your odds even more.

3) For non-pitchers, if you can hit they will find a place for you in the lineup.

4) For pitchers, throw strikes and let the chips fall where they may. It is hard for a coach to have confidence in a kid who is afraid to throw strikes imho.

5) Only focus on those things you can control like...

a) first to arrive last to leave
b) have the best attitude on the team
c) be the hardest worker on the team
d) have the dirtiest uniform on the team
e) be the guy who hustles the most
f) be the best teammate
g) do any team dirty work that might need done like field maintenance, carrying the water cooler, shagging balls, picking up equipment, etc. etc., etc.
h) never hang your head
l) always concern yourself with your teammates first

These things can get you noticed and help you stand out in a crowd. Never ever make excuses. Even though politics may exist, never let it be an excuse. A big part of baseball is learning how to overcome the excuses.

Cleveland Dad: excellent list

war dog,
I don't like talking specifics about my son but I will tell of his HS situation because it can relate to you and all freshman players/parents.

Freshman year he did not make JV although he and I thought he was among the top couple of freshman players. Up to 5 or 6 freshman got JV time that year. Son was very upset. My advice? Go out and do what you do and things will work out.
Son went on to be the best hitter on the freshman team and never got an inning on JV. (Every year at the year end banquet the coaches give individual stat sheets to every player)

Sophmore year, same thing. Didn't make varsity. Extremely disappointed. Wanted to quit HS ball and wait for travel. Me? Same advice as freshman year.
Same results, best hitter (stat sheet) and power hitter. Although called up for V playoff game, not one inning played.

For the first time in my life I did call the JV coach to see if my son had any discipline issues for not playing. No issues, but he also didn't understand why not called up.

Junior year. Makes varsity, starts 1B, bats 3rd every game. Breaks HS season HR record, hits almost 500 and makes many post season all star teams.

I don't think it was politics with my son, maybe a coach with an agenda. But whatever the reason is that a kid doesn't play he should continue to play the game as he has up to that point.

The moral of this story is that if the talent is there it will be noticed and appreciated eventually, if not immediately. Don't let your son use politics or disappointments as a crutch. You will hear two things many times on this site, "just worry about what you can control" and "it's a marathon not a sprint". Two truer phrases you will never hear. If the talent is there they will get what they earn sooner or later if we, the parents, and outside nonsense stay out of the way.

Now back to our originally scheduled program!

These have been excellent posts. STAY away from the complainers , the whiners , the people who constantly talk about politics , the negative folks! They are miserable , they want another member to join their team. What is really sad is in many cases they have already made their son miserable as well. Do not listen to their stories that they will tell how this kid did this and this kid did that and then the coach did this and then the coach did that. They will spend four years of assisting each other in the negative environment. Once in awhile one of their kids will become a starter and they will fade from the club. Sometimes they will come right back as soon as he doesnt start. Well most of the time.

Do not concern yourself with the parents that appear to be gaining an advantage for their kids by playing apparent politics with the coaching staff. It serves no purpose to do this only than to cause you to worry about something that does not matter. Do not concern yourself with what these parents say about other players or the team. If you listen close enough you will rarely if ever hear them say anything positive about the other players unless the player is a son of one of the negative parents club. If you listen closely you will hear them constantly being negative and constantly pumping each others kids to oneanother and constantly putting down the players that play in front of the negative parents clubs kids.

Let it be fun and a positive experience for your son. Let it be a fun and positive experience for you. When its all over and this quick four years comes to an end you will be very glad you did. And if you dont you will wish like H ell you had.

The proof is obvious how this all works. Observe the parents that come to the park and cheer for the team and enjoy the games. Watch how they have a good time. Now observe the parents negative club. They only enjoyment they have is in seeing failure by the players in front of their kids. Using this as a way to validate their negative attitudes. Also observe how their attitude quickly changes when one of their sons earns a starting spot. Quickly that member is no longer wanted in the club. And that member is no longer feeling like they want to be in the club.

The people I am talking about are obvious. You will quickly learn who they are. You have the opportunity to make the right decision. I hope you do. Good luck to your son he sounds like a talented young player.

I think I have mentioned this before but I think it bears mentioning again with regard to politics in HS baseball

My sons senior year in HS saw a political move in town to remove the longtime baseball coach---it took place just before practice began in the spring--my son was devastated when he got the news

If you have a strong AD things can be averted-- he was forced to remove the coach but he took over after that---his search committee was himself, the Asst Principal and my son who was the team captain--I objected to my son being on the committee but he, my son, talked me out of it because he said he knew what was going on and he wanted a piece of the action--they got the highly successful football coach to apply, he had been a baseball stud at the Division II college level, ---he got the job and all went well---my point is that if there is a strong system in place the politics can be aborted

Funny thing is that some 15 years laters we all touch base every now and then

I can speak from the point of view of a son who had the rare really bad H.S coach. He played JV for 2 years, did his work and got what he could out of it, played on excellent summer teams for good coaches and is playing in college, the only one to do so in that coaches ten year H.S. career. He knows the coach is just a rotten human being and now that he is out of H.S he does what he can to steer the local kids who want to pursue their dream to avenues where the ****** coach has little impact. He even is the pitching coach for the middle school kids during the summer. I could not be more proud. The adversity in my opinion made him a better player in the long run, he learned life is not fair, some coaches are to be avoided if you can, and you can still prevail in the face of adversity.

I agree with all the advice given...very good stuff...

However, being a good ball player is not always good enough...you can be the best kid on the team and if your attitude sucks, well, some coaches will send you packing...

This happened at my kid's school last year...the kid, clearly the best kid on the team. Yet, he felt entitiled and did not have to work hard to keep a spot on the team because he was the best player on the team. He was also a bully, who picked on others. As you would expect, he had an overall bad attitude. The coach gave him two years to mature and develop, but then decided he could tolerate it no more...and cut him in his senior year.

Devastating to the kid and his parents would be an understatement of how they felt. Getting cut in your senior year when you're trying to manuever to get into the best school and BB program you can and then get cut? Wow, this could seem like the end of the world to a kid. Indeed, the dad came so unglued at the coach he had to be escorted off the school campus. Not a good situation.

Anyway, the point is that no matter how good your son is he needs to keep working and striving to get better while respecting his teamates, coaches, teachers and fellow students. To remember playing the game is a privilage and not a right. Your son will play at the discreation of the coach and he should respect his decisions. Do not complain about the coach in front of your son because nothing good ever comes out of this. Have your son focus on his skills and try to ignore and forget anything else.

Play your game and not the game of politics...

Great point coach. I agree 100%.

If you play long enough , if your kid plays long enough , you will encounter situations where you feel you or your kid is getting the short end of the stick. Hey , thats life. Now how are you going to deal with it? That is what is important.

You focus on why you are really there. Your kid to play baseball , be a great team mate and you to support him and the entire team and enjoy the experience. When your focus shifts to the BS it all becomes BS. All of it.

There will come a day when you have zero control of the BS. And there will come a day when its not going exactly as you would like it to go. So what? Its baseball. Sit back and let your son battle , claw , fight , learn , adapt , adjust , overcome. Listen , encourage , give advice when needed and shut up and listen when they want to talk and just let them know you will be there if they need you. And then let them do what men have to do. Or you can become part of the problem.

The lessons we learn when faced with adversity are far more valuable than lessons not learned by avoiding it because of fear of failure. Its not such a bad thing to have to learn how to deal with this stuff at these ages. Because sooner or later they will have to in life as well. Baseball teaches alot more than how to play a game. It also can teach lessons that help you in life. If you let it.

Coach


My definition of talent/baseball ability includes attitude--

Let's not pin all the baseball politics on HS ball. There's plenty of it in summer ball too. Plenty of parents use private lessons with the coach as a means to essentially "launder" bribes at the coach for playing time.

Frankly Dog. I would be more concerned about the damage throwing a slider can cause at 14,then team politics. The coach will do what he's going to do.... Period. He's not going to change, do you really want to be known as the family that got the coach fired?

CD's advice is solid. Run with it.

2 great quotes:

"Parents want the starting lineup to be their kid and the 8 best players on the team"

"I've never seen a kid who was as good as his Parents thought he was, or as bad as the other Parents thought he was"

My son is a freshman in HS. The politics talk started at the first preseason meeting of the year. School had been in session for 3 weeks.

We blew it off thanks to some excellent advice I had read on here over the years. I did notice that it was the parents of kids who hadn't been promoted past their grade level the last couple of years. One parent even said that we didn't have to worry about politics because we were good friends with one of the starters on varsity's parents and we had an "In" with the political crowd.

It was pretty amusing but it annoyed my wife quite a bit.

Thanks again for all of the great advice on this site. It is a life saver and has reduced my stress level by a large amount. Keep up the good work guys and gals.

Wardog- print this advice and keep it handy. Read it once and read it many times if you think things aren't
going your son's way.

You have gotten great advice from the best posters in the world. Follow their advice and keep your comments to your son positive and things will work out.

Welcome it looks like you found the right site just in time. Relax and try to enjoy the ride- it goes waaaay too fast.

Sometimes, the 'politics' we see from the bleachers is not what the team sees in the dugout. Ask you kid what's going on. They usually know.

war dog, I wish I could get back all that time and energy that I wasted worrying about politics, worrying about what the other parents were thinking, and even being mad at some of them when I learned that they thought he got his playing time due to "politics."

Now I know that none of that stuff matters! What matters is what he did, and continues to do, on the field. Not what happens in the stands.

Follow the advice you're getting! It will be hard sometimes, but do all you can to avoid the negativity. It's bad for your health!

There is one more thing your son can control. His grades. You'll hear it over and over again, and it is the truth. Good grades really do open doors.

Politics do exist. Unlike some people the one's who told me about the politics were a couple guys whose kids ended up playing D1 and a couple whose kids ended up playing pro ball. At times it was pretty blatant. At times things seemed pretty fair. Even so all you can do is try to be so good that the politics don't matter. Not every player has that luxury.

You'll be a lot happier if you convince yourself that there aren't any politics regardless and as some others have told you don't get your son worried about politics.

Wow, so many posts with the same message I'd give you. Stay positive with your son, expectations effect outcomes. Focus every bit of energy on what he can control, he'll start influancing the others things outside his control. Understand his job is to make the greatest contribution to the program's success he can. No program can ever get enough of a kid like that.

Last season most of the dozen or so kids from a club team I'd coached for a long time played together in HS. There was a lot of concern about PT and who was playing were, what games kids would pitch etc.. We came up with a short saying to deal with all of that; "shut up and hit". Most of the time it's really that simple, don't let yourself get caught up in things you can't control, work hard and rake.

quote:

"shut up and hit"

I like that!

I would like to thank all for the responses.
I do follow a lot of the advise given sublinamally. I would like to say that it's not a worry as much of a concern with the politics since this is his first year of high school and baseball hasn't started yet.
I have to say for jr. is basically oblivious to the politics, he just sees what has gone around him in the past and the positive thing I've seen is it has given him the desire to work harder and push himself to get better.
As for me I probably sound like a broken record telling him "to do what you", "be positive" and "keep smilling"; he does and has fun doing it. He always has a great attitude eliminating the stress or stressors for the people around him...
For me when I do get a chance to watch my son play I watch from a far enjoying the competition of all and at the end of the game I walk up to all say to them good game or good job and when I get to jr. I will slap him five tell him that I'm proud of you. No matter the out come is...

PS. I'm Relaxed.

War dog, one thing I know for sure: Regardless of politics, if your son exudes confidence — I don't mean cockiness but just confidence in his ability — the coach will play him. TRhit is right in his definition of talent. Attitude is a big part of it. If the coach sees him intimidating batters with confidence and ability, I don't care how bad a coach is or what his good-ole-boy mentality is, your kid will play. I guarantee it.

This is all great advice except that sometimes a kid needs experience to get better and exude confidence. In our case, the HS coach was dealing with heavy donaters to the Booster's Club with a pitcher son. That coupled with the fact our son was an unknown to him, caused him to not put him in until the end of the season. It was one of those far reaches into the bullpen when the coach had exhausted all his pitchers. That kind of pressure without the experience didn't make for a good presence on the mound and made the HS coach reluctant to put him in the next season. I've seen this with batters too, the coach doesn't put a kid in until the 6th or 7th game and then by then the kid feels so much pressure to do well that they fold. While son still played on the HS team(mostly sat on the bench), we found him a coach on a travel team that did believe in him. Amazing what can happen when someone gives you a chance. He became their starting pitcher and brought the team to their first ever tournament championship. When the HS coach finally put him on the mound, son blew him away. Now he is their go-to closer and is being looked at by several colleges.

Politics were definitely in play on the team as it is in many places. But we just stayed away from the gossip/negative parents, and got him the experience he needed to get better. If your son isn't able to grow on the high school team and becomes a victim of the politics, DO NOT WAIT! Get him onto a reputable travel team and when he's a junior, a showcase team.

We always here politics. I was the head coach at a high school for 25 years. I played the best kids. I did not know who their father was where they came from who they played for etc etc Despite what people say about politics there comes a time when all the "politics" ends. In my case it ended when they got to me. You either can play or you can not. I wanted to put the best team on the field. Maybe this is being old fashioned but what coach would bench a kid and play somebody else of less talent because his father or uncle or whatever is whatever? it is about TALENT. Coaches who get the squeeze because of politics be a coach and tell them to go to (*&&^%.

I agree, playing the best kids are what most coaches do, but I have to admit I have on occasion seen something else.

What I usually see is a coach (including myself) play a kid who they believed could not perform because they felt bad they didn't play enough or had been pressured by the parents or perceived pressure. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it does not.

I have learned as much as possible to ignore the politics when it is aimed at me (coach) because it will cause you to make missteps in judgment, which I have certainly done. When you play a kid because his parents have pressured you too you end up ticking off someone else. You find yourself in a lose-lose situation.

Let me give you an example...When my sons, Sam and Gabe were little I began coaching their little league team. Sam had a good arm, one of the fastest on the team, usually one of the top hitters and one of the best players in the league. My other son, Gabe was a big, slow and uncoordinated player was not very good, always one of the last to be drafted, but he wanted to play and to be with dad. No problem, I wanted him on the team and enjoyed it immensely.

About midway through the season a parent sent me a very long email detailing why I played favorites with Sam only because he was my son. She said I played him in all the good positions like SS/pitcher and ignored her more talented son. She said her son had low self-esteem and needed to pitch to show what he was capable of doing. The fact is her son had a difficult time hitting the broad side of a barn and he did lack confidence. I just didn’t have the practice time to work with him to throw strikes.

Anyway, I said I would pitch him if the situation dictated, but I explained to her as delicately as I possibly could that I was not going to pitch him in a tight situation or when the game is on the line because if he failed miserably how was he going to feel then? What was that going to do for his self-esteem?

In addition, when I pointed out that I had another son on the team she was surprised and said she didn't know that in spite of the fact I had given her a roster with all the players names. Unfortunately, Gabe played the minimum and was happy with that, but not his mom because she let me have it too! And that was worse than any email...it was in person!

As a coach you will always find yourself in this position with some parents whether it is little league or high school, it is something you have to learn to handle. It goes with the territory.

As a coach I want my weakest players to get better. So it is in my interest as well as the individual players that they work to get better on their own and with the team. You never know when you need that extra bat or arm to pitch. As I have heard it said, 'You are only as good as your weakest player.'

.

"As a coach I want my weakest players to get better."

Oh thank goodness...I first read that and I thought you wanted them to get batter!






.

I'm telling ya GW, you gotta get yourself a can of the stuff and sit back and let all happen...

quote:

Unfortunately, Gabe played the minimum and was happy with that, but not his mom because she let me have it too! And that was worse than any email...it was in person!

A friend was president of our LL. When his son didn't make all-stars he spent a couple of weeks sleeping on the couch.

I'm glad I'm not the only one...

Something about "organic" batter blaster in a can seems odd......

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Something about "organic" batter blaster in a can seems odd......

I didn't see that until you mentioned it...it seems kinda gross when you dwell on it

.

"I'm telling ya GW, you gotta get yourself a can of the stuff and sit back and let all happen..."

We've been hearing how great this stuff is so a buddy and I set out Halloween night to get some. We went right to the source. They didn't want to hand any over so we tried to coax some from 'em!

It's gold Coach! Gold!

And about those two holes in the ceiling? I swear there were clay pigeons flying around, but it turns out they were merely cup saucers.




.

Well I cut my oldest son when he was a Jr in HS. He wasnt good enough to make the varsity. I had to cut some other guys that were better than him. I was told "No one is going to think bad of you if you keep Jake on the team he is your son." I would have. Those other kids were someones son too.

It is your job as the coach to put the best players on the field that give your team the best chance to win that game that day. It is your job to keep the kids that deserve to be on the team. If your afraid to be the coach then find something else to do. You can not preach to your players the importance of earning what they get and at the same time give something to those that have not earned it.

I could careless what the people in the stands think. I could careless if they agree with the line up or not. I know who has earned it and I know who gives us the best chance to win. Frankly I could careless if they agree or not. My players know who the best options are. They want to win. They deserve to be given the best chance to win. Players work for years for the opportunity to play and they earn it. I am not going to give something to someone and watch those that have earned it sit behind them.

By the way my oldest son worked his butt off that off season and made the team his sr year as a dh. He got about 25 abs and was a great team mate. He earned it. Weaker players dont get better by being given anything. They get better by understanding what its going to take to get better and then going out and doing that. Stronger players dont deserve to sit because they have worked their butts off to be better so someone who has not worked to be good enough can play. If a kid busts his butt and is doing everything he can to get better you look for opportunities to reward that hard work. But they will earn it. Not their parents.

And by the way if a Freshman gives our team the best chance to win and a Sr is his competition the Sr sits. If you want to make sure you play then make sure your the best option. And just because your the best option today dont assume you will be tomorrow.

I have not had a problem with a single parent in several years. The players know the deal because I tell them and the veteran players tell them. The parents know the deal and if they dont like it they know I dont care. I have a great relationship with my parents. They want to win too. And they want their kids to earn what they get. The ones that feel otherwise choose to play somewhere else. And thats a good thing.

Coach May

You have a PM !!!

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
I know who has earned it and I know who gives us the best chance to win.

What if these are two different players; one does the 'work', the other is more talented. Would you punish the whole team, as far as 'giving them the best chance to to win'? Play the hard worker and sit the kid who doesn't buy in to the whole program, but is obviously the better player?

I'm asking, because you're a coach. Son's football team had this situation with two RBs. Of course, a dad got involved...

We've obviously got some great coaches on this site. The very fact that you are posting on a site that helps parents and kids make the most of their high school years makes it pretty clear where you stand wrt fairness. Not every team has coaches with such integrity. Politics do happen unfortunately and the kids are the ones that suffer the most. For anyone caught in this situation, find avenues for your son to get the experience and confidence outside of his HS team and before long your HS coach will have no choice but to put him in. Because you can't argue with winning. If son doesn't improve with this extra experience, then you'll have a better idea what the HS coach was working with. Just don't put all your eggs in the HS basket - that can be fatal to son's baseball career.

Reading Coach May's post made me think. I've posted this before, maybe more than once...

I was talked into coaching the Legion team many years ago. We had tryouts and had to get to an 18 man roster.

My youngest son was one of those trying out. He was a sophomore in High School at that time. I cut him! He understood! He was 16 years old at the time and not one of the top 18 players trying out.IMO

There's more.... At age 22 he was playing in front of 50,000 fans in the Major Leagues.

Bad coaching? Good coaching? Politics?

Wonder if it hadn't been my own son if someone would have thought politics were involved?

Anyway, politics exist in most everything. Coaches sometimes like one kid more than another for many different reasons. I think it is best to be one of those they like a lot. Coaches tend to like all kids who work hard and have a good attitude. They also tend to favor (when coming to playing time) those who are the most talented.

Then there are a few who just don't do the right thing. Coaches are just like players and umpires... some are good, some are bad, they are not all the same. The sooner one realizes that, the better prepared one will be.

Unless I missed it over three pages, there's one other thing that happens. Coaches sometimes make mistakes. Sometimes they misperceive a player's potential to the detriment of another player. It's not politics. It's a mistake. If it's the player's one year to start it stinks. If it's early in his high school career he'll probably overcome it. The key for the player is get to work instead of sulking.

Coach May’s post made me think about something our HS coach just told all of the parents this week at the “all parents meeting”. He said that he had the pleasure to teach and develop kids as baseball players, and for that he was grateful. He also had the pain of telling kids they would no longer be able to play HS baseball. He pointed out that of the current senior class there were 4 players still on the team. That class started with 20 freshmen. They had about the same number of Sr’s last year. So for the last two senior classes he has had to tell 32 kids "thanks for coming out, but you are done." Politics? No. Some very unpleasant discussions? Yes.

So many great posts addressing this age old question could make for golden thread potential. Dog, I hope you have read these folks thoughts. They "get it". there might be politics afoot, but it usually only surfaces around the bottom of the roster, if at all. It is mostly a figment of those parents imagination, anyway.

As others have said, the kids know who needs to be on the field, and they usually are.

No worries. Enjoy the experience and stay posi+ive.

Vicarious Dad thats a fair and good question. And the answer for me is very simple. If you want to build a program you have to get the players to understand there is a certain standard that must be lived up to. In the classroom , on the field and off the field. The type of kids you have in your program is just as important if not more important than the type of talent you have in your program. I have always believed that helping to mold young boys into young men is part of building a good hs baseball program. And I also believe that when you hold these youngsters to a high standard they will step up. I also believe that when you dont they wont. You are doing the kid wrong when you dont challenge them to be the very best they can be. And in the end you hurt your program.

There are programs that are only competitive when a good crop of talent cycles through their program. And even then they many times underachieve. The players rarely get better over their four years in hs. And then there are programs that are always competitive and many times overachieve even when their talent level has dropped off. Their players always seem to get better year after year.

Building a program and setting standards for your team , program and players is all part of the process. You may have a better chance to win that game if you play that kid but what message are you sending to the younger players coming into the program or the ones already there?

Every player in our program will work hard , will be a good team mate , will hold themselves accountable or they will not play regardless of their talent level. They will not play because they will not be on the team. Hustle is something I never tell a player to do. If I have to tell them to hustle I have made a huge mistake in not cutting them. Effort , desire , attitude - takes absolutely no talent to accomplish.

Jerry is spot on with his post. Coaches like the players that work hard and have a great attitude. And they tend to favor those that are the most talented. So when you hold all of your players to the same standard it all shakes out. Do coaches have favorites? Of course they do. Every kid should strive to be one of those kids.

I have never played a kid that didnt work hard. Because if they dont work hard they are not on the team.

In dealing with politics I believe that 95% of the time it comes down to perspective. It really isn't there but some people believe it happens because they lack the realism and character to truly understand the situation. I'm not naieve enough to say that there aren't coaches out there who will give the booster club president's a favored spot on the team / lineup. It happens and will continue to happen. But I truly think politics is generally coming from one skewed POV.

Building a team is a VERY difficult task and then to build a program is even tougher. Some people may not realize that there is a difference in a team and program but there is. A program is the standards and expectations you have for your players year in and year out. A program is an attitude and work ethic. A team is a collection of individuals that a coach has to mold into a cohesive unit where you improve their skills. A team is more about athletic achievement that can change year to year. As Coach May has said you have to establish high standards and expectations on and off the field. It doesn't take the best player to be a part of the program and in fact the programs is usually built on the attitudes of the lower end kids but the team really takes off when the best players buy into the program. But sometimes you have to cast off the best players on the team for the sake of the long term health of the program.

Politics is a POV because parents or players don't want to become part of the team regardless of their abilities to perform for the team. Little Johnny might be a good player but Little Bobby is just as good but has great grades, works his butt off, respected by peers / teachers. Little Johnny could be a better student, could work harder in practice, gets into a small amount of trouble at school. Johnny's parents don't see / accept the intangibles are what separates Bobby from Johnny. In fact most people don't have a clue what the intangibles are that coaches see everyday. Mom and dad are now ticked off so they tell everyone they can find how terrible the coach is. The sad part is others will sometimes listen to what's going on.

You can't build a program in one or two seasons. It takes time to build a program because a program is built on consistency by the head coach. The asst coaches will change and the players obviously change but if the message is the same year after year after year then one group passes it down to the next group. New people coming in know beforehand what is expected and that gets the players realizing that politics doesn't exist. It also helps head off the vast majority of parent problems because they know the deal beforehand as well. But there are times when stupidity will prevail and you have to deal with a problem.

As for RJM said - he's 100% right. Coaches do make mistakes in evaluating talent. I know I have. I didn't have ulterior motives for playing one kid over another - I just thought the other kid was better and it turns out I was wrong. It happens.

Coaches do have favorite players and they tend to be the examples I used above with Little Bobby. Those types of kids will get a few more chances than a Little Johnny type kid. I'm not going to give myself headaches over a kid who has been given several chances (on the field and off) who continues to let himself and the team down. Quick story - this season in football we had a kid who was a problem and since I was defensive coordinator I had to deal with him as a defensive back. He messed up a couple of times and my advice to the head coach was to get rid of him because at some point he was going to quit because I was going to let up my standards and neither was the head coach. But the head coach kept giving him a few more chances because he wanted to help this kid make a turn for the better. I admired that in the HC but I didn't feel we could do it and he was starting to distract the team. Well the kid messed up and the HC made him come apologize to me for what he did. I told him I would accept his apology but he better realize that you can't apologize everything away. When you mess up there are repercussions and if you do it enough you lose credibility. I told him he was at that point with me in that I really didn't want to hear apologies when my main impression of him was he was going to be a problem. We caught him lying about two weeks later in why he didn't come to practice (in fact we made several phone calls to catch him in the lie - we worked for it). Once again I wanted to cut him loose but the HC said he had to do a lot of running in order to come back. He did part of the running and walked away and never returned. That showed the type of character he had and that is the type of kid you got to eliminate from your program. The worst part is in this case some parents will say this is an example of politics because we ran this kid off. It happens.

I guess what I'm saying (in a very long winded, rambling and sometimes off topic way) is that politics is a bad word people who lack a work ethic use to justify failure. They will use this to justify their failure for probably the rest of their lives. It does exist but overall it's just a POV some people take when they can't handle failure.

Sorry rambling is over now - but bless you if you made it this far.

This thread is nominated for Golden

PG, Coach May and Coach 2709 - classic posts as are every post I have read in this thread. Outstanding posts by all that have been MOST enjoyable to read!

PG - you were a lousy Coach. Cutting a future major league player - you were obviously playing politics

Coach 2709 - what a post! I loved your description about the difference between building a team and a program. I saw my son's high school team develop into a program several years ago when two players were cut whose parents were prominent members of the booster club including the club President's son. The kids cut had talent but they also had attitudes. Took guts to do what he did but the "program" has been perenniel state title contenders ever since.

Coach May - I'll focus on one sentence of your fine post:

quote:

I have never played a kid that didnt work hard. Because if they dont work hard they are not on the team.

I used to think that baseball was an individual sport which to some extent it is. I thought that if you put 9 great players out on the field that you automatically win by out-talenting the other team. My experiences with high school baseball and beyond have taught me otherwise however. I believe the best "teams" win. Sometimes, the best teams are the most talented but sometimes they are not. You get every guy on the team believing in the "program" as Coach 2709 points out and you have a dynamic that is even more powerful sometimes than having the most talent. I think back to the famous/funny Bum Phillips quote on Don Shula. He said "He can take his and beat yours and take yours and beat his."

.

I also agree 100% with fillsfan so long as the quote is coming from someone who acknowledges that the effects of politics do exist, yet he or she does not implement the power of politics.

I also agree that politics is often used as an excuse to cover for some perceived wrong. It happens. And it happens in all aspects of life.

And it also happens that politics, or more appropriately a superior position of power is used to squelch or punish. It happens. And it happens in all aspects of life.

Whether perceived or real it is frustrating to encounter this. In a much more perfect world it shouldn't happen often, but we don't exist in a perfect world...not even in a Factory Second world.

I have stated it many times before here on the HSBBW...to be a good coach, including everything needed to be a a good coach, requires a tremendous amount of hardwork, dedication, honest focus on success for themselves and their team, and an underlying sense of fairness. They are driven by good.

Not all coaches possess this combination or have the ability to achieve it. These coaches are, in my opinion, not good coaches. They, and their bad influence, are not appreciated.

And conversely, those coaches who substantially do possess these qualities and continue to strive for it, are good coaches. They are playing at or near the top of their game. They are appreciated. And they are especially appreciated by players and their families who have experienced a particularly poor coach.

When given a choice between a good coach or a bad coach the good coach is selected. This isn't any different than other choices we make.

Good doctor? Bad doctor? Easy decision.
Good mechanic? Bad mechanic? Easy decision.
Good grocery store chain? Bad grocery store chain? Easy decision.
Good dry cleaner? Bad dry cleaner? Easy decision.
Geico©? Progressive©? Not such an easy decision!

We have choices in almost everything in life. But with coaches sometimes we don't have a choice. It is then that you hope your coach is a good one. And when the coach is good life is sweet!




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I agree - this thread is Golden!


Julie

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
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We have choices in almost everything in life. But with coaches sometimes we don't have a choice. It is then that you hope your coach is a good one. And when the coach is good life is sweet!




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Yes it is!!!!




****Note from Moderator - CD ****
Coach Waltrip - loved your picture but it distorts reading of the thread. If you can find a smaller one, please repost - thanks!

Perhaps we could clone the coaches on this site and spread them across to HS programs across the country. What a public service that be.

Yes, there are good coaches and bad coaches, but I can tell you this: I wouldn't want to be one. You have to love the game an awful to put up some some of the pain-in-the-neck parents out there. (I should know. I think I was one once. )

And let's face it, politics is the buzzword many parents fall back on when their kid isn't good enough to be in the starting lineup. It's a whole lot easier to cry politics than to say Junior is hitting .189 and couldn't catch a cold.

Kids who truly are stuck playing for bad coaches have to learn to deal with it. Just like all of us older folks have to deal with bad bosses. Life isn't always easy and isn't always fair. But how you handle things says a whole lot about what kind of person you are. Overcoming the politics, if they actually exist, is just another bump in life's road to navigate.

quote:

I believe the best "teams" win. Sometimes, the best teams are the most talented but sometimes they are not.

CD,
I agree and can't leave that one alone. Maybe a bit off topic, but very worthwhile topic on its own.

We tried to simplify winning so that everyone easily understood. Every win or success can be attributed to 4 main ingredients.

1 - Talent
2 - Effort
3 - Intelligence
4 - Luck

The plan was to be the best team on the field in the first three. When that happens, chances are #4 will also be on your side.

However, we would win many games where we weren't the most talented. Effort and intelligence can help improve talent, but once the game starts the other team may have more talent. Effort and intelligence were the most important areas for us. Our goal was to make **** sure that we were always #1 in those areas every time we took the field. It was something you could control to a certain extent.

In order to win when playing against better talent, you need to be better than them at 2 and 3. If you happen to have #4 on your side that day, all that much better.

Talent is still the most important thing, but the other things can overcome that at times. The days you take the field knowing you have the most talent, and also knowing you're #1 at effort and intelligence, it is a sure win nearly always. However, there is still "luck" which can change everything. If you are best that day at 1, 2 and 3. It takes a lot of luck for the other team to win.

Anyway, that was our simple philosophy. It wasn't that simple to actually accomplish everything.

I know this is off topic.

So I will add in a feeble attempt to get back on topic. Winning or success, be it baseball or anything else, be it team or individual, will always include the four ingredients. There might be even more ingredients, but the four will always play a huge part. Other things, people mention like character, class, etc… actually fall into one of the 4 categories IMO. How truly intelligent is an individual who shows no class?

So which of the 4 areas does “politics” fall under? If anything… maybe Luck? Luck is the only one of the 4 ingredients a person has no control over. Concentrate on the other 3 and everything is very likely to turn out well. Especially concentrate on #2 and #3!

Politics isn’t likely to stop the person who truly excels at 1, 2 and 3. IMO Those that allow politics to stop them in baseball, are likely to experience politics stopping them again in other areas.

Note: I could be all wet about this and should not be held responsible for anyone who fails, following the above ideas. I guess it is possible someone could have lots of talent, give the most effort possible and tries to be the most intelligent… And still fail on account of politics! I would take that chance, though. Effort and intelligence will usually overcome obstacles like bad luck and politics. IMO

quote:

And then there are programs that are always competitive and many times overachieve even when their talent level has dropped off. Their players always seem to get better year after year.

My son had the good fortune to play four years of high school in this kind of program. Every year the team contended for the league title, and every year the team went deep into state playoffs.

But almost every year it was predicted it would be a down year for the program, because they lost so many seniors, or because the key player had graduated, or because the talent level wasn't what it was in the past.

But without fail, the seasons would play out, and the team would contend. It would invariably get huge contributions from kids who nobody thought would ever be impact players. Modestly talented kids who were allowed to develop, to be a part of a system with a tradition of excellence.

The kids did indeed step up. Year in and year out.

And it was always to the amazement of the outsiders. Those of us on the inside were amazed by their amazement!

This takes it out of the realm of politics and back to the issue of "what makes a good coach?"

Even though I have not met any of you (with the exception of PG Staff, briefly, at Jupiter this year), it sounds like there are several coaches on this board whom I would love to have coach my son, like Coach May, PG, Funnel Drill and Coach Waltrip. But apparently circumstances can change, and sometimes overnight.

I know its the other sport, but three years ago, Eric Mangino was considered by a lot of people to be a good coach. He could have been elected governor of Kansas. Now, as stories come out about his statements to and treatment of players, it's unlikely he will last beyond this season.
Did he suddenly stop being a good coach, or did he just lose patience with the student athletes he recruited, and the loss of patience is making news?

A number of the alleged statements attributed to Mangino are being made by former players. Their playing days are apparently over, so is this "politics" on their part, or their chance to take a measure of revenge over some slight that happened several years ago that flew under the radar when the program was successful? Or, is this just sour grapes because they did not have the NFL career to which they felt they were entitled?

Would Mangino have been better off had he cut those players for "Conduct unbecoming" because of the attitude they displayed? In hindsight, probably so, since his words from years ago are now being used to torpedo him. Had he cut them, though, would he have been as successful? Perhaps not. It's a pretty fine line.

In any event, I do not envy you your jobs. I stopped my brand of coaching when he was 11 and my son is probably much the better for it. He's had good coaches since then, and others who were not as good. But it was never "politics" that kept him out of the lineup. It was usually curveballs. Good thing he can pitch a little bit.

I came to a school in 1996 that had not made the state playoffs in 13 years. When I asked the team I inherited how long had it been since the program had been to the playoffs no one knew. When I asked the parents at our meeting no one knew. I asked the players who was the last player from the program to make all state none of them knew. When I asked the parents none of then knew. I asked the players who was the last player to play in college. I asked the players who was the last player to be drafted. I asked the players who was the last player to sign with an ACC school. None of them knew. When I asked the players none of then knew. This was a program that at one time had three pitchers on the same staff that signed D1 and two were drafted. One pitched for the NY Yankees ML club. Two others set many records in college and one other was drafted and played AAA ball. That team did not even make the playoffs. Our players were never invited or made the state games. Our team was never invited to play in any of the pretigeous tournements at Easter break. We couldnt get any of the better programs to play us. Why? They wouldnt answer.

I asked them why they thought this was the case. None of the players said a word. When I asked the parents no one spoke up. I then told them they did not understand what it took to win. I told them they were 4 month players who did not understand that what you did in the off season , what you did when no one was watching would determine what you were capable of doing when everyone was watching. I told them they had a team from year to year and did not have a baseball program. I told them that many of them sitting there were not going to be willing to do what I was going to demand from them. The very best in the classroom. The very best of them off the field. And everything they had on the field. And an off season program that was going to demand more from them that many were going to be willing to give.

But I promised those that were willing that we would build a program. And I promised those that were willing they would part of something special , something they could be proud of. And I told them they would be able to answer those questions I asked them when they were seniors. Since that time we have won numerous conference championships , had several all state players , had several players go on to play in college , had four ACC signees and several players drafted. And another guy in the major leagues.

The thing I am most proud of is the fact that several guys that were rec league also rans have developed into great hs players who have gone on to play at several college programs at all levels of play. And several guys that had a wonderful hs baseball experience that would have not. Learning to hold yourself to a higher standard , learning what working hard really is , learning that being a part of something special is really something special.

It is truly amazing how much better a talented player can be when he is in an environment that challenges him to be better. And even more amazing how much better a less talented player will become when he is surrounded by players that are more talented than him that show the work ethic needed to be your best.

Now I can go to the local rec fields and they can answer the same questions my team and parents could not answer 13 years ago. Now after games some of my players are signing baseballs for the little kids at the games. Now the local kids are dreaming of wearing that jersey when they get in hs. Building a program is the most rewarding thing a coach can do imo. Teams are year to year. A program is the foudation those teams are built upon.

Nothing and no one person is more important than the program. Yes there are politics at every level of baseball just like in life at your job etc. Dont use politics or anything else as an excuse to fail. Overcome whatever obstacles you have to overcome. In the end it will make you a tougher person and will make you better for having to work to overcome.

I left my program in the hands of a great guy who will no doubt continue to build it. And I have moved on to other things in the game. But I doubt I will ever do anything that requires more work than building a winning program. Changing the culture of an entire community that believes that going .500 is a great year.

“When you have a good coach who doesn’t play politics, life is sweet.” Or something like that.

This thread makes me a little sad and jealous…. Why? Because I would have loved for my boys to play in a PROGRAM and on a TEAM with a GOOD COACH who didn’t play POLITICS. I wish the same thing for my daughters. I’m envious of all of you who don’t understand that concept. I’m envious of the coaches here who don’t understand that it can happen because they don’t play that game. I’m envious of the parents of children who haven’t experienced it. And I’m envious of the players who can follow the “commandment”—Play so well that they have to play you.

Sometimes, it IS about politics, or as gotwood4sale wrote, SUPERIOR POSITIONS OF POWER. We happen to be at a school with an incredibly corrupt and powerful athletic director /head football coach who has been at the school for over four decades. He coaches and directs that most, I can’t say ALL of the teams (maybe not badminton), follow his dictate. The players, parents, and other coaches who can benefit him are given many opportunities, regardless of talent or “heart”. There is no attempt to hide this. He has been at the school so long that “it is the way it’s always been done”. It’s been going on for literally generations. Too much power in one position. Anyone who has been brave enough to challenge him has been more than beaten back. Get on his **** list and your athletic future is diminished. The lost opportunities for student- athletes to grow and excel at this high school are numerous ----and that is inexcusable. Again, I am very envious of those of you who coach with the true spirit of coaching---for the kids--- and fair and square.

The flip side to him is the summer coach of my daughters’ softball program. He is a decades long AD/coach who is the mirror opposite of our AD. Oh how we wish that we would have moved to his school district on the opposite side of Crook County…..or that he had come to our high school...…Anyway, the point is, you are lucky and dare I say “blessed” if you have no concept or understanding that politics or someone using their superior power, CAN and DOES occur.

At least in the classroom, when you work very hard, you get rewarded with good grades--and therefore scholarship opportunities. It is too bad the same effort, when put forth in the athletic arena at our high school, is rewarded only when our AD decrees for it to happen---and by whom. It is a sad situation that needs to change---and NEVER should have been allowed to happen in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:
It is truly amazing how much better a talented player can be when he is in an environment that challenges him to be better. And even more amazing how much better a less talented player will become when he is surrounded by players that are more talented than him that show the work ethic needed to be your best.

Coach May, I've said it before and I'll say it again.... I wish you could have coached ALL of my children.

Coach May said this, too:

quote:

Yes there are politics at every level of baseball just like in life at your job etc. Dont use politics or anything else as an excuse to fail. Overcome whatever obstacles you have to overcome. In the end it will make you a tougher person and will make you better for having to work to overcome.

We HAVE used our experiences to help teach our children to fight for what you want, etc. But it is a mighty tough lesson for kids to learn that it isn't always the most deserving people who get the job or position, ......that sometimes it is who you know...and sometimes you don't stand a chance.....

That is a very nice thing to say and I really do appreciate it play baseball. I can tell you that what I was taught by my coaches about life has been way more important to me than anything they taught be about the game itself. I remember being an 11 year veteran in the Durham Police Dept. I was a very hard working guy who paid my dues and did things the right way. I scored 2nd out of over 75 on the written test. I scored 1st on the review board. They selected 8 for promotion and I was not one of them. I was told "We need some more minorities in these posistions and we went with some other people for other reasons."

I remember the very next night when I went to work. Everyone telling me how I got the shaft. Telling me they would do this and do that if they were me. I never said a word back. I got in my patrol car and I drove to a quiet dead end street. I could hear my coach saying "Suck it up. Life is not fair. You got a job to do and thats why your on this team. Its not about who gets the glory or who gets the press its about us , this team. If its about you then get the hel out of here and dont come back." So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.

The next time around I got promoted. I was asked in the review board why did I feel I should be promoted. I said "I should have been promoted last time. But I was passed over for political reasons. But no matter what you do today its not going to stop me from doing what I believe is right and doing it the right way. I deserve to be promoted because I am the best person for the job. And thats not going to change regardless of what decision you make today."

So I say to hel with those that play politics. Your not going to stop me from playing this game as hard as I can. Your not going to steal my love of this game. Your not going to control me and stop me from doing what I know is right. And when its all said and done I will be able to look in the mirror and know I did it right and I fought and I was the best I could be. So play your games and kiss my a_s.

play baseball: I know where you are coming from and unfortunately so do many other parents. How awesome it would be to have coaches for our kids like the ones on here. Now that we've established that THESE coaches don't play politics, what advice do we give to the kids that are stuck in programs that do?

Again...don't put your whole baseball career in the hands of your HS coach. Get on travel teams and showcase teams and get the experience and exposure you need to be the best you can be. I've seen too many kids give up because they base their worth on what the HS coach thinks.

In the end, this doesn't have to be a bad situation if you use it for the life lessons. Overcoming adversity (aka politics) is a valuable lesson for the rest of their lives. Teach them not to dwell on the politics or even look for them. Stay away from the negative parents and players. Guide them toward programs outside HS in which they can excel and grow to their full potential. With all the showcase teams out there today, you don't need to depend on your high school experiences to play in college.

We didn't know this and though we almost got sucked into the negative parent group, we were able to look elsewhere for a more positive experience. But had we known to look outside of high school for opportunities, our son would have been on a much better timeline for exposure to colleges.

Nice post sandlotmom.

quote:

Originally posted by gotwood4sale:
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"I'm telling ya GW, you gotta get yourself a can of the stuff and sit back and let all happen..."

We've been hearing how great this stuff is so a buddy and I set out Halloween night to get some. We went right to the source. They didn't want to hand any over so we tried to coax some from 'em!

It's gold Coach! Gold!

And about those two holes in the ceiling? I swear there were clay pigeons flying around, but it turns out they were merely cup saucers.




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You guys drove all the way to Charlotte, NC? Isn't there a Waffle House closer to Chicago?

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:

So I say to hel with those that play politics. Your not going to stop me from playing this game as hard as I can. Your not going to steal my love of this game. Your not going to control me and stop me from doing what I know is right. And when its all said and done I will be able to look in the mirror and know I did it right and I fought and I was the best I could be. So play your games and kiss my a_s.

Coach, I couldn't agree with you more...

However, I'm sure you will still agree that young people (and sometimes their parents) have dificulty getting to this point in their thinking when faced with a difficult coach or other circumstance. Overcoming these difficult experiences becomes a skill learned through the struggles of our lives. Young people don't necessarily have the perspective and have to learn it just like you and I did...the hard way. There is no other way...

I know when I was young I did not always handle adversity as well as I could have (my wife says I still don't), but learned by these experiences to gain insight and perspective...

In fact, as difficult as it is to experience, it is necessary to go through what seems as an injustice, other wrong or failure, to grow and become a better person. It takes time for a person to learn how to grow stronger by adversity. Perspective and insight in my humble opinion, can be learned no other way...

This is one reason why baseball is so special...although a game, it mimicks the challenges of life in 9 innings...

I wish I could keep going but I have to go to St Louis now...Rant out!

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quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May: I can tell you that what I was taught by my coaches about life has been way more important to me than anything they taught be about the game itself. I remember being an 11 year veteran in the Durham Police Dept. I was a very hard working guy who paid my dues and did things the right way. I scored 2nd out of over 75 on the written test. I scored 1st on the review board. They selected 8 for promotion and I was not one of them. I was told "We need some more minorities in these posistions and we went with some other people for other reasons."

I remember the very next night when I went to work. Everyone telling me how I got the shaft. Telling me they would do this and do that if they were me. I never said a word back. I got in my patrol car and I drove to a quiet dead end street. I could hear my coach saying "Suck it up. Life is not fair. You got a job to do and thats why your on this team. Its not about who gets the glory or who gets the press its about us , this team. If its about you then get the hel out of here and dont come back." So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.

This is a simply great story. Says it all.


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quote:

Originally posted by observer44:
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quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May: I can tell you that what I was taught by my coaches about life has been way more important to me than anything they taught be about the game itself. I remember being an 11 year veteran in the Durham Police Dept. I was a very hard working guy who paid my dues and did things the right way. I scored 2nd out of over 75 on the written test. I scored 1st on the review board. They selected 8 for promotion and I was not one of them. I was told "We need some more minorities in these posistions and we went with some other people for other reasons."

I remember the very next night when I went to work. Everyone telling me how I got the shaft. Telling me they would do this and do that if they were me. I never said a word back. I got in my patrol car and I drove to a quiet dead end street. I could hear my coach saying "Suck it up. Life is not fair. You got a job to do and thats why your on this team. Its not about who gets the glory or who gets the press its about us , this team. If its about you then get the hel out of here and dont come back." So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.

This is a simply great story. Says it all.


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It doesn't get any better than this. Actual, real human drama.

How emotional this thread has become. It seems as if someone has been wronged by political forces beyond their control that these wounds can remain for a lifetime. The hurt is there and it is real. Somehow people have to figure out how to deal with it or better yet overcome it.

Similar to Coach May's account of how he reacted to his ultimate promotion, reminds of a scene from the classic movie "Shawshank Redemption" where Morgan Freeman's character answered the question of whether or not he had been rehabilitated. By the time they asked him the question, he no longer cared whether or not they agreed with his answer. All that mattered to him was whether or not he was comfortable with himself.

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In fact...take this and print it up and put it on the frig...

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:

"Suck it up. Life is not fair. You got a job to do and thats why your on this team. Its not about who gets the glory or who gets the press its about us , this team. If its about you then get the hel out of here and dont come back." So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.

Your not going to stop me from playing this game as hard as I can. Your not going to steal my love of this game. Your not going to control me and stop me from doing what I know is right. And when its all said and done I will be able to look in the mirror and know I did it right and I fought and I was the best I could be.

...and have your son refer to it when things get tough and poliitcs get thick.

IMO the best things we can give our son's is an ability to stand for something regardless of situation. Not to be defined by, but rather to be bigger and better than situations or fools. That's called character and it is one of the rarest commodities out there and the one that will serve our son's long after baseball. While they are great, wins and success come and go, but character is for a lifetime.

44
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Coaches May and 2279, thanks for your responses. My son's coach played it the way you guys might have. That makes me feel better.

By the way, Coach didn't cut the star RB. He did something worse. He put him on defense.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach_May:

So right then and there I decided that no matter what they did they were not going to control the kind of person I was. They were not going to determine how I did my job. They were not going to be the judge of my character and how I did my job. I was going to be that person and I was going to go out there everyday and do it the right way for the right reasons.

and...

So I say to hel with those that play politics. Your not going to stop me from playing this game as hard as I can. Your not going to steal my love of this game. Your not going to control me and stop me from doing what I know is right. And when its all said and done I will be able to look in the mirror and know I did it right and I fought and I was the best I could be. So play your games and kiss my a_s.

That just about sums it up for me - and I know that I couldnt express it better if I tried a million times - Thanks Coach May!

Here is one for you. Son is sophomore on varsity team. He has played really competitive baseball last three summers on good teams in good tournaments across the southeast (East Cobb, Border Wars etc.) Last two seasons has batted at or near .500. He is a catcher primarily and bats from the left side. Competes with another boy on the team who is also a sophomore. This kid is a good pitcher. He also plays infield, but is not starting there. He also catches. The first playing of the season was three five inning games played on one day. My son was dh. The other kid was an extra hitter. Son goes 4 for 7 with three doubles. Other kid goes 0 for 7. Next week right before first game coach calls son outside and says you are not going to dh. The other kid does. Coach tells my son he is the number 2 catcher behind our senior. Tells him he might pinch hit. Later in the week our catcher is getting ready to pitch the next day and will not catch for two days. The other kid was put in to catch those two games. Several pass balls. The other kids dad is president of diamond club and has done much work to help coach. After the day son went 4 for seven, coach bragged to other coaches at school that he had found his DH. Something happened in that next week leading up to the first game. It is obvious. Parents have come to me wanting to know what is going on. Players know it. Son and I have talked about how there are bigger things in life like faith, family, working hard and doing the right thing. Son continues to work hard. He has sort of become the whipping boy for the coach. Yells at him and noone else. Coach and assistant say they are leaving after this year. However, same diamond club president.

eagle - I feel your pain.

I have said it before, I have no doubts politics exist at every level of the sport. You have no control over it so don't let it consume you like this. Worst case your son will shine this summer - he will not be harmed by this coach. I wouldn't discuss these things with the other parents and I certainly would not acknowledge them with my son.

For your son, encourage him. Let him know that the coach does not define his self-worth. Encourage him to be the best teammate on the team, always looking out for the welfare and well-being of the team. Take no joy when the other kid screws up. Cheer him on as if he were your own son. Attitude always, always, always overcomes. It always defeats politics. Remember that cartoon How the Grinch Stole Christmas? When the Grinch took away all the possessions in Whoville, the town was still grateful and joyous anyways. Instill that joy in your son and never let him see your disappointment. Don't let the Grinch defeat your spirit but let your attitude overcome.

I should add is one thing to be careful of is an entitlement attitude. Summertime performance entitles you to nothing. Sometimes, if the coach senses that, they will make an example in order to coach it out of him.

ClevelendDad,
You make some very good points, and we have followed most of them. My wife and I are guilty of discussing this with son.That will stop.We are past the bitterness. It is just hard to handle sometimes, but you are correct in your analysis, and I thank you for your encouragement. Son works extremely hard on his game to the point of shoveling off snow in our cage to hit in the winter. His dream, like many other young men, is to play college ball. What is your opinion of accomplishing this without a great high school experience, but solid play in summer ball? Things sometimes have a way of working out in the end.

quote:

Originally posted by eagle88:
His dream, like many other young men, is to play college ball. What is your opinion of accomplishing this without a great high school experience, but solid play in summer ball? Things sometimes have a way of working out in the end.

My opinion is that he has already overcome and will see his dream come true as long as he does not allow others to control his positive attitude and love for the game. His summertime exposure will far exceed his spring exposure no matter how much he plays in the spring. The fact he plays in places like East Cobb and doing well will be his ticket to his dreams. This spring, build that joy in his heart knowing that "his" dream is alive and well and will continue this summer in spite of what happens this spring

For the kid whose Dad is pulling strings for him, unfortunately the father does not realize he is probably doing more harm than good by artificially removing competitive pressures. Thus, that other young man's dream may already be over.

Like Cleveland dad said - summer ball is the key. The tournaments your son is playing in will get him the exposure he needs for college opportunities. Politics... at our HS, principal's son get cut from his HS team(another local HS) and principal brings his kids over after our tryouts are done and over and puts him on our varsity HS team - no tryout - nothing. Kid played in a few of our games which needless to say - we ended up having to forfeit because he was an ineligible player. Yep. Politics. Everywhere. Be an overcomer and it sounds like you are! Best of luck and enjoy as it all is over far too soon.

Seeing some really bad things going on as far as politics go in my area. I think a dad I know posted here for advise and if that wasn't him then someone has an identical story, he was slammed here for his statements and pretty much told if his son was cut then he obviosuly wasn't good enough and that the coach cut at least the right parent, etc. Later the dad was riducled for being happy when his son was asked to play for a very good sumemr team in our area. If this is the same family I am thinking of, the kid does deserve to be on the high school team more so than many that are and is a GREAT kid, one of the best I've ever had the pleasure of speaking to. The parents have never said a word in the stands about their feelings but I am sure it is the same family. It has to be. This can't be happening this badly everywhere. Just odd how one poster is encouraged and the other is discouraged on basically the same topic.

I wish there was really something that could be done to eliminate this everywhere. It is getting worse and worse.

My son had some problems last year. He was a freshman who went from starting varsity to sitting on the freshman team. The best advice came from a personal friend who had played D1 baseball. Tell your sons that "The better player you are the less politics are involved. You have to play so well that they can't keep you out of the lineup." My son seemed to understand and accept this.

When focus on what you can not control you lose the ability to focus on what you can control. When you do this you end up proving to those that don't believe you can play they have made the right decision. When you focus on what you can control and stop worrying about what you can not control you are a much happier person.

In a perfect world the coaches would do what is best for the team and be fair to each and every player. There would be no nepotism and no favoritism. I agree that you have to let your child's talent and dedication speak for itself. That being said, what can be done when a coach is on a total power trip and thinks he's a demigod? Are high school coaches all powerful?

quote:

That being said, what can be done when a coach is on a total power trip and thinks he's a demigod? Are high school coaches all powerful?

baseballauntie - welcome to the hsbbweb!

I don't know if you read this entire thread but there are some good suggestions for your questions.

In my opinion, if the coach has it out for someone, there is not much they can do. I believe the player needs to try and be the best team player they can and bide their time until the summer. Many more games are played in the summer and almost all high school recruiting is either from summertime exposure or through showcases. You simply cannot control someone elses decision. The idea is to let that burden go and control the things you can like attitude, hustle, being the hardest worker, being a good teammate, etc. In essence be the bigger man than the coach.

They just started a thread called Heart, Hustle & Fundamentals and it is about Coach May's son. He was an elite level player in high school and is now fighting for playing time at the next level in college. Rather than letting the coach's decisions get him down, he is using his attitude to overcome it. That is the very best advice I can give.

thanks Clevelanddad-

I did read the thread and there are many good suggestions I passed along to my brother and my nephew.

It just gets frustrating dealing with all of the politics. I'm surprised that the coaches are just so arrogant. I guess its true that power corrupts.

You go to the meetings and they tell you to just quietly watch the game.....that is really funny??? Puhleeze...this is baseball, not tennis.

Politics???? Deal with it. Life is not fair so better get used to it. To some politics is an excuse. To some it is just something they have to deal with. You can moan and groan about it or your kid can fight through it.

to some it is just an excuse. to some it is real and you have to fight through it. the key is knowing the difference.

Will,

Well put. Cream rises to the top. If a kid is that talented and has the right attitude, it is difficult to keep him down for very long.

Every HS program has politics to some degree or another-- most of those who complain about the "politics" are those whose kids would not be starters anyway

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My description of events is intentionally a bit cryptic. I don't want to hand out any ammo to those folks in our school district who have been enabling dishonest, corrupt, and bullying behavior in our district. And keep in mind that I am posting this while sitting in Cook County, Illinois. I follow politics. I recognize dishonesty, corruption, and bullying when I see it. And my eyes are wide open!

I am posting this to encourage other HSBBW members to face up to obviously unfair political situations. I agree fully with what Will said...

"to some it is just an excuse. to some it is real and you have to fight through it. the key is knowing the difference."

If what is happening at your school or community is truly unfair and dishonest then stand up and fight. Why should dishonesty, corruption, and bullying be accepted? It shouldn't!

Get involved. Gather the troops. Be smart. Be honest. Be victorious! Don't tolerate what is wrong!



"control the things you can"

I'm very pleased to report that we did just that at our high school CD!

"You go to the meetings"

For years someone very high up in a department not academic would stand at the back of the room during school board meetings. At these public meetings, where input from the community is sought, if you dissented about anything academic or athletic the someone very high up would write down your name.

Intimidating? Yes.

Unethical? Yes.

Is this behavior worth fighting against? You betcha!

"Politics???? Deal with it"

We did.

"fight through it"

We did.

"Cream rises to the top"

Yes indeed! And heavy crud settles on the bottom!

Our success? We now have a new superintendent. The dishonest one was booted by our newly elected school board. A decent and honest professional replaced him.

Rumor has it the someone very high up has been told to leave at the end of the year. This person has been bullying this high school for decades...and now this person's reign of terror is over.

Who benefited from this person's behavior? A select few.

Who was harmed by this person's behavior? Nearly everyone else.

I say to members faced with a situation that is intolerable...

You will know when it is worth a fight.

Your enemy will try to intimidate and demoralize you.

Consider all of that as high octane fuel.

Tune up your car. Put on a new set of tires. Find the key. Put it into the ignition and turn it confidently. Shift into drive and floor it. Don't look back. You will quickly empty your tank of that high octane fuel...and you will coast across the finish line as the victor!

Savor your victory...a victory that will be remembered and cherished by all others who follow!

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gotwood4sale - that is a good example that there are those out there who can poison the well. In some cases, almost criminally so as you have reported. I have been consistent in this regard. I believe politics exist at every level of the sport and most endeavors in life for that matter. Unfortunately, people have to find a way to mentally overcome it because the troublemakers out there usually cannot be dealt with in a timely enough manner before a high school career has already passed someone by.

I believe in the corny stuff like cream rises to the top but that is only in general. Specifically, the cream may not rise fast enough to overcome an insurmountable obstacle that may be corrupt at its core.

What does someone do if the high school coach or other administrator does not allow the cream to rise? IMHO, they do not give up. They devise plan B that allows the cream to rise sometime down the road. Plan B is to find a summer team where they will play. Plan B is to find a venue where they can showcase their skills before college decision makers. Plan B is pay no more mind to the troublemakers and yes control those things you can control. Otherwise, the evil-ones will destroy you and your loved ones from the inside out and that is a victory that must be denied them.

I know that everyone wants Plan A and that is to play on the high school team and see their name in the local newspaper every now and then. Sometimes it is not in the cards. Doesn't mean that the cream cannot still rise. Plan B might not be the best pill to swallow but it can be adequate under the circumstances.

For those that refuse to be defeated (mentally, spritually), they can see Plan A come to life in college - after the cream has been given the proper chance to rise and after others whose politically-enhanced careers have long since ended. Forgive me for abusing this particular metaphor but it seems to be what we are all talking about here.

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I agree with what you're saying CD.

The victories that I described have taken our community probably ten years to achieve. Our oldest son started there in the fall of 2001 and our youngest daughter will finish in the spring of 2013. They are all athletes. The key to our success was getting a school board elected that honestly addressed all of these problems. That took a few election cycles to accomplish, but we did it.

And we got a lot of support from voters whose children have graduated. These voters remain taxpayers and were not happy with the situation when their children were attending school and they were still not happy with the situation until the recent string of victories. Now we're all happy...and the high school is on it's way to being a much better place!




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quote:

Originally posted by wz8fvm:
My son had some problems last year. He was a freshman who went from starting varsity to sitting on the freshman team. The best advice came from a personal friend who had played D1 baseball. Tell your sons that "The better player you are the less politics are involved. You have to play so well that they can't keep you out of the lineup." My son seemed to understand and accept this.

Performance is often the greatest equilizer of politics and perceptions......

ESPECIALLY in programs of a level where the coach tends to lose his job if he does not win....(HS, college)...

I guess my "cream rises to the top" comment was not well received. Are there politics? No doubt. But i would not tell my kid about the politics and get him all hung up over things he cannot control. If you read the original post, this is a freshmen. Let's let him get his feet wet before we cry foul play over politics. If he is truly throwing in the eighties with three other solid pitches as a lefty, he is not going to get overlooked for some mid seventies, 1 pitch, right handed thrower.

If the politics are that profound, I would raise the question in private, in the off season. I would suspect that there would be many other parents willing to fight with you if the problem is that bad. JMO.

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Hey I agree...cream rises to the top!

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thank you for the help guys. I appreciate the constructive criticism and suggestions. I can tell you live in the real world and have dealt well with the good and the bad.

As for the negative people....I'm sure there's a reason you are the way you are.

We have always told our kids its all about their performance and what they bring to the game. We don't tell a coach how to do his job. I hate parents that are always whining to the coach about their kids. We do not do that.

We have told the kids to ask the coach what they are doing (or not doing)and how can they improve? I believe if the coach is worth his salt he will be approachable.

quote:

That being said, what can be done when a coach is on a total power trip and thinks he's a demigod? Are high school coaches all powerful?

The player and the parents learn to deal with it and move on. My son was told not to go to his pitching coach during the season. I figured he could do his off day bullpen with his pitching coach since the head coach doesn't have a plan for pitchers. My son obeys the rules for fear of consequences or having to lie to protect himself.