Premier Power Five Coaches Unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’

I need to study this further, but my initial reaction is "The Rich Get Richer."  I see very little in it for programs outside the Power Five.  There is also the open question of who is going to pay for dorms, apartments, meals, etc. for the weeks/months that this would extend the season.  Some of the bigger schools may be able to fund this, but at a lot of places the extra cost will fall on Mom and Dad.  

I'm all for pushing the start of the season back.  But, just eliminate a few games and keep everything else the same.  This would help the northern schools, allow arms more time to ramp up, and give kids a better chance to be true STUDENT-Athletes.  

@MTH posted:

I need to study this further, but my initial reaction is "The Rich Get Richer."  I see very little in it for programs outside the Power Five.  There is also the open question of who is going to pay for dorms, apartments, meals, etc. for the weeks/months that this would extend the season.  Some of the bigger schools may be able to fund this, but at a lot of places the extra cost will fall on Mom and Dad.  

I'm all for pushing the start of the season back.  But, just eliminate a few games and keep everything else the same.  This would help the northern schools, allow arms more time to ramp up, and give kids a better chance to be true STUDENT-Athletes.  

Back end cost concerns are valid, however there were 20 - 25 games played this season before everything got shutdown the 2nd week of March.  That's more than a "few games".  In this model, the season would have not started yet.

Ultimately,  there is not a model will benefit everyone, but if you can get more people in the seats, for more of the season, then many of the other obstacles can be addressed.  

And to your comment "the rich get richer", there are less than 10 teams that are in black financially, so 95%+ of the teams are underwater.  It's more like the poor hope to begin treading water.

Thanks for sharing LeftyDadP9.

I like the thought that these coaches got together, addressed issues and put together a straw-man proposal.  They aren't sitting around as their sport is losing funding, scholarships, etc...   They went outside to get input as well from others like Dr James Andrews.   I believe there are real solutions for P5 schools in the proposal but I also think there are gaps for the balance of college baseball teams.   This is not a solution for ALL of college baseball.   This is a solution for P5 schools, however I think there are some nuggets in this proposal that could be used by other NCAA levels.    If I was an AD/HC at a D3 school, I'd be "on the horn" talking with my conference leaders and peer schools discussing this proposal.   

Additionally, the P5 schools have leverage with the NCAA.  So, if they want to make this happen they have the juice to do it.   I'm not so sure about the rest of college baseball...I believe they are beholden to NCAA feudalism.   Trying to sell this as a better chance to be true student-athletes is just spin by the P5 schools, and I'm not buying it at this time.   It is about money, funding and scholarships.    Time will tell where this goes, but I think they are off to a good start.

**Hot Take Alert**

There are 299 D1 Baseball teams, and only 122 averaged 2,000+ fans last year (from the article).  This tells me that 177 programs are not really supported by the school/community (generally speaking).

There are 130 FBS schools in Football . . . Maybe it's time that baseball split into FBS / FCS Division's, and the key requirement for FBS teams is the scholarships are fully funded.  

To move the game forward, it may require dropping some programs and operating more like football.

I’m really confused how people can’t see the benefit for non-P5 schools??? Northeast schools??? This is forward focused,pro active  thinking. It’s about costs more than attendance.

They threw in the academic advantage as an afterthought, but it makes a lot of sense from that point of view.  Who pays for the dorms and meals when freshmen come in the summer before they start?

At the end they mentioned the recruiting/summer league part, which would also have to change quite dramatically, with more emphasis on fall events, and that's not so good for the high school student-athletes.

As far as attendance, in a college town of a D1 that I'm familiar with, the college baseball is popular, but once the high school and little league seasons start, attending games becomes harder because the kids who are most interested are playing their own games.  We went to a lot of early spring games, when the weather was decent.  There's not a huge audience of just random baseball fans, that I can see, and they would lose the audience of their own students, not that that ever seemed very big.

@anotherparent posted:

They threw in the academic advantage as an afterthought, but it makes a lot of sense from that point of view.  Who pays for the dorms and meals when freshmen come in the summer before they start?

At the end they mentioned the recruiting/summer league part, which would also have to change quite dramatically, with more emphasis on fall events, and that's not so good for the high school student-athletes.

As far as attendance, in a college town of a D1 that I'm familiar with, the college baseball is popular, but once the high school and little league seasons start, attending games becomes harder because the kids who are most interested are playing their own games.  We went to a lot of early spring games, when the weather was decent.  There's not a huge audience of just random baseball fans, that I can see, and they would lose the audience of their own students, not that that ever seemed very big.

You are right. Dorms are always open. It wouldn't cost a parent more. I also remember that once school is over and baseball is still being played they get an allowance daily for food. 

Large crowds don't exist for smaller programs unless it's a regional rival or conference rival. Once school is out, the crowds are really thinned out.

Not all P5 programs have large crowds.

It just seemed to me a group of P5 coaches got together and decided this would be a good idea, but realistically, no matter what, the same programs will be in Omaha, which will be more miserable in July, than in June due to heat and rain.

If this means helping save college baseball I'm for it

@Fmr coach now Dad posted:

I’m really confused how people can’t see the benefit for non-P5 schools??? Northeast schools??? This is forward focused,pro active  thinking. It’s about costs more than attendance.

I'm confused on how you can see the benefit to non-P5 schools since they weren't included in the conversation?   Agree it is focused, proactive thinking for the P5s (only) at this time.

Possibly this is a roadmap for the non-P5 schools, but they've got to start their own conversations to protect their interests, funding and scholarships

@LeftyDadP9 posted:

**Hot Take Alert**

There are 299 D1 Baseball teams, and only 122 averaged 2,000+ fans last year (from the article).  This tells me that 177 programs are not really supported by the school/community (generally speaking).

There are 130 FBS schools in Football . . . Maybe it's time that baseball split into FBS / FCS Division's, and the key requirement for FBS teams is the scholarships are fully funded.  

To move the game forward, it may require dropping some programs and operating more like football.

299 "D1" baseball programs is a ridiculous number.  Everybody loves a good Cinderella story, but once you get past the top 50-60 these teams have zero chance of winning a national title.  UNFORTUNATELY, players love to say they're playing "D1" ball.  Parents often love saying it even more.  And the Baseball Industrial Complex loves selling the illusion.   So yeah, a FBS/FCS system makes a lot of sense.  But, I don't see how it's gonna solve any of the money issues facing college programs.  Most college presidents would scream bloody murder if they had to fund significantly more than 11.7.

@TPM posted:

You are right. Dorms are always open. It wouldn't cost a parent more. I also remember that once school is over and baseball is still being played they get an allowance daily for food. 

Large crowds don't exist for smaller programs unless it's a regional rival or conference rival. Once school is out, the crowds are really thinned out.

Not all P5 programs have large crowds.

It just seemed to me a group of P5 coaches got together and decided this would be a good idea, but realistically, no matter what, the same programs will be in Omaha, which will be more miserable in July, than in June due to heat and rain.

Only place worse than Omaha in June is Columbia, SC, where the only thing that separates you from Hell is a screen door. 

When news of Chicago State came out about possibly dropping baseball, I looked at their 2020 Schedule.  Here is their travel from Feb 14th-March 20:  NC (Western Carolina), FL (Snowbird Classic) IL (Midwest tourney), AL (Auburn), KY (Louisville), HI (U of Hawaii) and then to Arizona to open WAC Play.  That is a tremendous amount of travel and cost for a program that at cancellation of season was 2-16.  I would think reducing that travel and having more regional games would save a significant amount of money.  I like the idea of a FBS/FCS type split as I think that more and more programs will be dropped if something isnt done to control the costs.  The Golden Goose has been infected and for many programs has been put on life support.  D2 is mandating a reduction of maximum games in all sports for 2020-21 seasons with baseball having 40 max and a minimum of 16.  Hate taking games away from the kids but if keeps programs viable, may not be a bad thing to look at across all levels. 

This will be way outside the box but maybe increase roster sizes to 40 (or some number) keep scholarships the same (since schools cant afford to fully fund now anyway) and you have added 5 full tuition/revenue paying kids to the team.  Perhaps that opens up more opportunity for players and donors who can afford to send kid to school and pay for it.

Big take away from article is that things can not continue as they have been or there will be fewer opportunities for kids to play in college.  Just my 2 cents...

@MTH posted:

Only place worse than Omaha in June is Columbia, SC, where the only thing that separates you from Hell is a screen door. 

I am assuming you mean mosquitos! Lol

Used to be a huge issue here but due to Zika, but they spray all the time, which is probably really bad for us. 

I have been to Omaha, Missouri, Jersey, NY during summer months but the worst ever was in June in Gainesville. Horrible. I actually hated every minute of it. 

@MTH posted:

299 "D1" baseball programs is a ridiculous number.  Everybody loves a good Cinderella story, but once you get past the top 50-60 these teams have zero chance of winning a national title.  UNFORTUNATELY, players love to say they're playing "D1" ball.  Parents often love saying it even more.  And the Baseball Industrial Complex loves selling the illusion.   So yeah, a FBS/FCS system makes a lot of sense.  But, I don't see how it's gonna solve any of the money issues facing college programs.  Most college presidents would scream bloody murder if they had to fund significantly more than 11.7.

 

Yeah, when I said "fully funded" I meant the 11.7.

What has been happening for too long is we can't do "x" because it hurts the bottom "y" teams.   The vast majority of those 299 D1 programs are only in existence because at some point, the school could field a baseball team cheaply.  Well, those days have come and gone.  If you can't afford to field a team, then you're only hurting the sport by continuity being a roadblock.

Let's identify the schools that are willing to fully fund the 11.7, and you will have a number of teams who are committed, financially, to the game.  Every other school can play "FCS" or a level they can afford.  

The $$$ for college baseball is available, if the model can be adjusted.  We see this with the ratings and money ESPN pays for the CWS . . . it's a ratings hit!  And the Regionals and Omaha are packed with fans.

Thinking outside the box, may mean to think about big picture and not have 299 teams playing by the same rules.

@MTH posted:

Only place worse than Omaha in June is Columbia, SC, where the only thing that separates you from Hell is a screen door. 

Omaha in the summer is a problem? News to me. Try East Texas.

I think the proposals are solid. Baseball up north sucks early on. The travel savings alone would be huge for all levels of college baseball. Most northern D3's go south early on. I can see the later season interfering with those who have internships and jobs lined up. The vast majority of BB players will not play after college, and have to prepare for the real world, as well as help pay tuition.

In a vacuum, it would make sense.  For northern baseball programs it makes sense, but not for student athletes.  If baseball were a money maker, it would make sense.  But it isn't.

I just don't see it happening.  College Baseball has a number of guys just in college to play, but it still has a significant amount of student-athletes.  College Football and Basketball players are primarily athletes forced to also be something resembling a student.  Being a real student means real majors, and too many of those require summer internships for securing an after college career.  Things like engineering, computer science, cyber security, accounting, marketing, etc.  The NCAA liking this model is a looooonnnnng shot.

@anotherparent posted:

They threw in the academic advantage as an afterthought, but it makes a lot of sense from that point of view.  Who pays for the dorms and meals when freshmen come in the summer before they start?

At the end they mentioned the recruiting/summer league part, which would also have to change quite dramatically, with more emphasis on fall events, and that's not so good for the high school student-athletes.

As far as attendance, in a college town of a D1 that I'm familiar with, the college baseball is popular, but once the high school and little league seasons start, attending games becomes harder because the kids who are most interested are playing their own games.  We went to a lot of early spring games, when the weather was decent.  There's not a huge audience of just random baseball fans, that I can see, and they would lose the audience of their own students, not that that ever seemed very big.

I would think the parents foot the bill for freshman that come in the summer. It's called summer school. I don't think you can go just to go. You have to take some classes. And in order to play, I'm pretty sure most people would be happy to and/or schools chip in given the bump in attendance/concessions, less travel??? Does offer %age also apply to summer school, doesn't it? 

What are the coaching/instruction limitations during the summer now? I think I heard nothing smaller than groups of 4? Can anyone confirm? 

The only athletes the fall-shifted focus would be/is Football players.  No issues with basketball. No issues filling the stands in Ft Meyers and Jupiter in October with fans, coaches, and scouts.   No issues at the June big tourneys during CWS either. Plenty of coaches in attendance. 

Attendance would improve as it wouldn't compete with college basketball early on and better weather makes for easier games to attend.  Earlier in March would bring the CWS closer to July 4th and allow Omaha to host youth tourneys too. That was a really cool experience when we went to Omaha for a tourney and got free tickets to the CWS. 

Summer is HOT. Especially in the south. That's why they make tint and AC. Hell, it was 100 yesterday in Austin/Fredericksburg, TX.  Could always shift playoffs north if too hot in the south or west???

Not sure how the timing of Summer Leagues would work of bleed into August. Not much of a break for the students that make it to the Semis/Championship....

@Eokerholm posted:

I would think the parents foot the bill for freshman that come in the summer. It's called summer school. I don't think you can go just to go. You have to take some classes. And in order to play, I'm pretty sure most people would be happy to and/or schools chip in given the bump in attendance/concessions, less travel??? Does offer %age also apply to summer school, doesn't it? 

What are the coaching/instruction limitations during the summer now? I think I heard nothing smaller than groups of 4? Can anyone confirm? 

The only athletes the fall-shifted focus would be/is Football players.  No issues with basketball. No issues filling the stands in Ft Meyers and Jupiter in October with fans, coaches, and scouts.   No issues at the June big tourneys during CWS either. Plenty of coaches in attendance. 

Attendance would improve as it wouldn't compete with college basketball early on and better weather makes for easier games to attend.  Earlier in March would bring the CWS closer to July 4th and allow Omaha to host youth tourneys too. That was a really cool experience when we went to Omaha for a tourney and got free tickets to the CWS. 

Summer is HOT. Especially in the south. That's why they make tint and AC. Hell, it was 100 yesterday in Austin/Fredericksburg, TX.  Could always shift playoffs north if too hot in the south or west???

Not sure how the timing of Summer Leagues would work of bleed into August. Not much of a break for the students that make it to the Semis/Championship....

 

Many baseball players attend summer school, especially pitchers. They have an opportunity to get to know the landscape,  work with strength and conditioning coach. In some cases it's covered by scholarship money, in some not.

Coaches cannot work with you, during the summer, more than likely they aren't even around as they are on the road recruiting.

 Milb, MLB, and other leagues manage, and always have managed, to play ball throughout the summer in the south. In any event, we are talking extending through part of June for the vast majority of teams. Most D1 programs want their players to show up on campus by mid August at the latest. That doesn't seem to bother anyone. Maybe that date would be moved closer to September.

  The savings in travel for northern teams would be very real. Could be the difference between keeping, or losing a program.

nice chat with UMich on model https://d1baseball.com/video/d...lege-baseball-model/

@TPM posted:

Many baseball players attend summer school, especially pitchers. They have an opportunity to get to know the landscape,  work with strength and conditioning coach. In some cases it's covered by scholarship money, in some not.

Coaches cannot work with you, during the summer, more than likely they aren't even around as they are on the road recruiting.

 

Summer wasn’t % in our NLI, summers were covered completely. My son is a pitcher, but I assumed that was team wide.  At our official, they told everyone that the reported for July for summer school and conditioning.

@FriarFred posted:

When news of Chicago State came out about possibly dropping baseball, I looked at their 2020 Schedule.  Here is their travel from Feb 14th-March 20:  NC (Western Carolina), FL (Snowbird Classic) IL (Midwest tourney), AL (Auburn), KY (Louisville), HI (U of Hawaii) and then to Arizona to open WAC Play.  That is a tremendous amount of travel and cost for a program that at cancellation of season was 2-16.  I would think reducing that travel and having more regional games would save a significant amount of money. 

I do not know Chicago State's situation specifically, but don't the hosting schools offer some sort of guaranteed money to these non-conference visiting programs to offset travel expenses at a minimum? 

It does seem inevitable though that a FBS/FCS type of split for D1 baseball will happen at some point down the road. And while this proposal probably benefits the P5 schools more, a rising tide raises all ships... more overall interest in college baseball is good for everyone involved. College baseball competing with college basketball in Feb/Mar is tough.

I keep seeing suggestions for a FBS/FCS split for college baseball. I don't really understand the benefit of going in that direction. 

Even if that were the case it would create conference reallginment and more travel as you'd have a limited schedule. Travel is the issue that has been largely unaddressed.  Even if there were a divisional split in baseball. Programs like Chi St and BGSU are weak programs that hemorrhage money. A FBS/FCS split isn't going to make the school more attractive to better players. 

@PABaseball posted:

I keep seeing suggestions for a FBS/FCS split for college baseball. I don't really understand the benefit of going in that direction. 

Even if that were the case it would create conference reallginment and more travel as you'd have a limited schedule. Travel is the issue that has been largely unaddressed.  Even if there were a divisional split in baseball. Programs like Chi St and BGSU are weak programs that hemorrhage money. A FBS/FCS split isn't going to make the school more attractive to better players. 

I think the point is that, with a split, Vandy and Arkansas don't have to be limited by what might not work for the BGSU and Chi State.  Change is limited by the lowest common denominator and right now there is too big of gap between the top and the bottom for them to be playing by the same rules.

@22and25 posted:

I think the point is that, with a split, Vandy and Arkansas don't have to be limited by what might not work for the BGSU and Chi State.  Change is limited by the lowest common denominator and right now there is too big of gap between the top and the bottom for them to be playing by the same rules.

 

How are those programs limited by programs like BGSU and Chi State? 

The extra assistant coach would be the first way.  I know there are some P5 schools that didn't vote but it was dominated by the influence it would have on small schools.  I think there are a lot of ways that the big schools could do things differently if you did not have to look at how it affected the smaller schools.

For what it's worth, here are a few thoughts I shared on Twitter when I first saw news of this new model. 

Many good points in the NCAA D1 "New College Baseball Model" being proposed by coaches. But would make it even more difficult than it is now for players to transfer to another program for those that need/desire to do so.

With the proposed season in this model lasting until late June-early July for those teams in the NCAA tournament, it would leave very little time for transferring athletes to find another program.

Also, mid-year transfers to D1 currently can't be eligible in the Spring, and even if they change that rule, making a quick mid-year transfer can be difficult, especially when most D1 rosters will already be full.  

Remember the "Model" is for the greater good of most and not everyone.

Something has to be done or we're going to lose more programs.

All but 16 teams will be done by 7/4. How does that effect the 299-16= 283 schools and the transfers to them? Or are you just concerned with the 16 remaining schools? How many transfers are left for/to the 16 remaining schools?  How active is the portal at that time? 

The Rudd conversation with Michigan and ECU was a good one. Find it here

https://twitter.com/jrudd_scout/status/1267252032601305088?s=21

Seems the proposal is not going over particularly well with some of the Mid-Majors.

https://www.postandcourier.com...df-eba63fd6d05c.html

“They designed this model with Power 5 schools in mind, not taking into account the other 200 schools that will struggle if they do this,” Skole said. 

″... If we’re not careful, if Power 5 schools keep pushing, we might end up with an FBS/FCS situation like they have in football, because the gap just keeps getting wider and wider.”

I get it isn't one size fits all, but one size fits MOST.

Is their Minor league team going to make the cut? Why do they share a stadium? Finances? What are they going to do for funds if that team is cut? Wouldn't having more games help make it up? 

Weather in SC in Feb is still a crap shoot.

Explain to me how it's hard to pass out 11.7 scholarships to 27 players and passing out 15 would be harder? Are you kidding? Or just harder from a financial standpoint. 

Are people not playing at Citadel in SC from the North? Is he not paying guarantees like the other southern schools? Would they make more money in concessions/ticket sales with better attendance after basketball season? 

The current system isn't working for MOST and needs an adjustment. 3 weeks is better than 2. push it back 3 but I think the 4 was to get beyond basketball. School's and marketing departments only have soo much money and they're always pushing basketball over baseball. Students can only go to 1 game at a time. Why make them make a choice? 

The longer ramp up time for players and pitchers in Spring is a good thing. Athletically and academically.

The summer issues is the month of June. When was the last time the Citadel got beyond a Super Regional? 

Only 16 teams make it into July. 16! 

I think it's a great idea and change and hope it happens. If it needs to be tweaked, I hope they listen and get a general consensus on it, but still CHANGE.

Anything to make baseball more profitable across the board or for those schools suffering, has to be a good thing. Especially in the long run. 

@MTH posted:

Seems the proposal is not going over particularly well with some of the Mid-Majors.

https://www.postandcourier.com...df-eba63fd6d05c.html

“They designed this model with Power 5 schools in mind, not taking into account the other 200 schools that will struggle if they do this,” Skole said. 

″... If we’re not careful, if Power 5 schools keep pushing, we might end up with an FBS/FCS situation like they have in football, because the gap just keeps getting wider and wider.”

 

MTH,

Good article, thanks for posting.

I'm absolutely shocked this isn't going over particularly well with the D1 Mid-Majors    They have no voice and no representation in this matter.

Honestly, going to an FBS/FCS situation may not be all that bad.   You could have two college championship levels not to mention the TV revenue that comes with it.   Could this be a revenue boost for the D1 mid-majors?  I dunno, but I'm keeping an open mind.   I like the format of the current regionals, super regionals and CWS.   Do I like to see David beat Goliath in any of these rounds...absolutely.   I certainly enjoyed Coastal Carolina winning the CWS but that was very rare.   But, I'll bet we could come up with something just as good and give some of those 3 and 4 seeds in the current regional format a real shot at something instead of being brow beat after 3-4 games by P5s.      

As for the P5 schools....you remember the golden rule....those with the gold, make the rules.

As always, JMO.

Yes, good article.

The only problem this would solve (starting later), would be to give more ramp up time, especially for pitchers.

Other than that, I don't see any cost savings in going later into July. As mentioned, the program has to feed and shelter 25 players for quite awhile. Most schools are done by early May, and then what do you do if you are on 1/4 mester? You could cut down on regular season games. Eliminate 2 weekend series. That's gonna happen anyway, JMO.

I am one of those in favor of a type FBS/FCS system. I have been on both sides, getting to Omaha is so difficult even for the P5 programs.   Not that it's not achievable, put you just have the better arms on a P5 program.

CUSA has already set their baseball conference plans for next season.  It consists of less games and having east and west divisions and begins conference series in March for 8 straight weekends.  Some teams will play their closest opponents twice, to make up for all 24 games. So far there has been no word from NCAA if there is a change to the total number games allowed. 

I briefly listened to FAU HC speak about the changes which will also move the championship out of Biloxi and no longer on a neutral field. Next year it will be at La Techs new facility.

In his podcast, Coach said that this will significantly reduce costs for the conference as well as the programs, and pretty sure other conferences are moving in the same direction.  He also noted more than likely some of the conferences with less members may eventually end up merging.

So as much as we don't think that stuff isn't happening, there is a lot going on.

@TPM posted:

Yes, good article.

The only problem this would solve (starting later), would be to give more ramp up time, especially for pitchers.

Other than that, I don't see any cost savings in going later into July. As mentioned, the program has to feed and shelter 25 players for quite awhile. Most schools are done by early May, and then what do you do if you are on 1/4 mester? You could cut down on regular season games. Eliminate 2 weekend series. That's gonna happen anyway, JMO.

I am one of those in favor of a type FBS/FCS system. I have been on both sides, getting to Omaha is so difficult even for the P5 programs.   Not that it's not achievable, put you just have the better arms on a P5 program.

 

 

I agree that a two tiered system might make more sense.  But if start date and cost are the real issues, what about just shifting start dates for Northern D1 and Southern D1.  You could move southern teams back to the last weekend in February and northern teams to third weekend in March(or their Spring break)without too much difficulty.  Northern teams could play an additional midweek game/weekend game each week, and maybe only play 50 instead of 56.

Just looking at average D1 baseball attendance gives some idea of where the more popular and typically better teams are located.  Michigan and OSU are the two highest in attendance in the Big 10, but don't show up until #44 and #46 in top 50.  Granted this is 2010, but is the most recent attendance data at the NCAA website and it probably hasn't changed much.

Interesting chart. Huge differences in avg attendances. Would love to see more current numbers.

Aside from the finance improvement for MOST, Are people over looking the benefit to a longer ramp up for Spring (after being home for 6 weeks and not playing for 12)? Not playing in the cold at most locations.

Only 16 schools play in July. The housing cost...for the month of June....for fresh and soph (if they're in the dorm) if the other players are in an apartment, 12 month lease, no additional cost can't be more than travel/preseason guarantees and boosted concessions/tickets/merch from more butts in seats? For the 16 schools that play in July. They should be happy to pay the minimal charge to be in the hunt and on to Omaha (Marketing, bonuses, etc.). 

Currently CWS is in June after a lot of schools get out, (mostly southern or warm weather). They don't seem to be complaining about housing the team after school lets out Memorial Day? 

Why would schools want to compete for business and butts in seats with Basketball and March Madness? After basketball more marketing time/slots/money focused on/for baseball? Keep the school spirit momentum and boost attendance with better weather.

What about the academic and stress reduction on Fall and Spring Semesters for the student athletes? Let them get deeper into their classes and catch a rhythm before the chaos of fall ball or spring season.

If the current system is OBVIOUSLY not working or profitable, (but for a handful of schools), why not try to make a change/improvement that benefits the masses? Freaking Vandy is only break even....

LSU, Arkansas and others on the list above are doing well because they have more butts in more seats and with better weather, that would be the case for other programs across the country. 

Now is the time for and to change. Get college baseball back towards being more profitable and protect it from the chopping block. Give it a chance to fund the 3rd paid assistant and give that guy or gal insurance and benefits. Get scholarships funded up to 15 or something to give the sport more parity and a chance. 

Change is hard and stressful, good or bad, but now is the time to embrace change and give college baseball a really good chance to protect itself. 

found more current numbers from 2019

Ole Miss and Hail State certainly improved

https://www.reddit.com/r/baseb...l_top_40_attendance/

 also https://www.sportsbusinessdail...s/NCAA-baseball.aspx

Pedaldad,

I am assuming that Michigan and OSU show up later in attendance because they travel to warmer climates for about a month.  My girlfriend's son is a coach at OSU. They hadn't even played a game at home yet when everything was closed down. Their attendance doesn't matter because football supports their program. 

Games played affects RPI, so not sure how that would work out. Plus, for the smaller programs, you more than likely would not have enough arms, so rosters have to be expanded.

I just think it's ridiculous to put all teams together when there is such disparity between the number 1 and 300th RPI teams, in talent as well as in $$$$$. If you don't hit specific numbers or win your conference, you will never get to a regional. 

If you want to make it fair, then do so. 

Just sayin......

@Eokerholm posted:

Interesting chart. Huge differences in avg attendances. Would love to see more current numbers.

Aside from the finance improvement for MOST, Are people over looking the benefit to a longer ramp up for Spring (after being home for 6 weeks and not playing for 12)? Not playing in the cold at most locations.

Only 16 schools play in July. The housing cost...for the month of June....for fresh and soph (if they're in the dorm) if the other players are in an apartment, 12 month lease, no additional cost can't be more than travel/preseason guarantees and boosted concessions/tickets/merch from more butts in seats? For the 16 schools that play in July. They should be happy to pay the minimal charge to be in the hunt and on to Omaha (Marketing, bonuses, etc.). 

Currently CWS is in June after a lot of schools get out, (mostly southern or warm weather). They don't seem to be complaining about housing the team after school lets out Memorial Day? 

Why would schools want to compete for business and butts in seats with Basketball and March Madness? After basketball more marketing time/slots/money focused on/for baseball? Keep the school spirit momentum and boost attendance with better weather.

What about the academic and stress reduction on Fall and Spring Semesters for the student athletes? Let them get deeper into their classes and catch a rhythm before the chaos of fall ball or spring season.

If the current system is OBVIOUSLY not working or profitable, (but for a handful of schools), why not try to make a change/improvement that benefits the masses? Freaking Vandy is only break even....

LSU, Arkansas and others on the list above are doing well because they have more butts in more seats and with better weather, that would be the case for other programs across the country. 

Now is the time for and to change. Get college baseball back towards being more profitable and protect it from the chopping block. Give it a chance to fund the 3rd paid assistant and give that guy or gal insurance and benefits. Get scholarships funded up to 15 or something to give the sport more parity and a chance. 

Change is hard and stressful, good or bad, but now is the time to embrace change and give college baseball a really good chance to protect itself. 

FWIW, I am pretty sure that the NCAA covers most costs for post season play, and further subsidized by the school.  However, because of circumstances they have lost billions. That was one reason for them to come up with an idea, which IMO wasn't fairly represented. It's like all the rich people making rules for everyone, and we know how that can turn out.

For post season play, when son went to Clemson he had to move out of dorm to another dorm. Second season he had to move out of his apartment to a dorm. Most student built housing for off campus isn't on a yearly basis. I don't know if that's changed but here in FL, off campus housing is VERY expensive.  And leases ended in May. And things can happen so quickly in post season that you dont have time to think.

I asked son what he thought he liked, more than anything the longer ramp up time for pitchers. I think that was a common denominator for everyone. 

I don't have a dog in this fight, many mid D1 programs here in FL go to post season. But will never see Omaha. Again, more than likely due to lack of talent. Not just $$$$$.

JMO