Premier Power Five Coaches Unveil ‘New College Baseball Model’

I need to study this further, but my initial reaction is "The Rich Get Richer."  I see very little in it for programs outside the Power Five.  There is also the open question of who is going to pay for dorms, apartments, meals, etc. for the weeks/months that this would extend the season.  Some of the bigger schools may be able to fund this, but at a lot of places the extra cost will fall on Mom and Dad.  

I'm all for pushing the start of the season back.  But, just eliminate a few games and keep everything else the same.  This would help the northern schools, allow arms more time to ramp up, and give kids a better chance to be true STUDENT-Athletes.  

@MTH posted:

I need to study this further, but my initial reaction is "The Rich Get Richer."  I see very little in it for programs outside the Power Five.  There is also the open question of who is going to pay for dorms, apartments, meals, etc. for the weeks/months that this would extend the season.  Some of the bigger schools may be able to fund this, but at a lot of places the extra cost will fall on Mom and Dad.  

I'm all for pushing the start of the season back.  But, just eliminate a few games and keep everything else the same.  This would help the northern schools, allow arms more time to ramp up, and give kids a better chance to be true STUDENT-Athletes.  

Back end cost concerns are valid, however there were 20 - 25 games played this season before everything got shutdown the 2nd week of March.  That's more than a "few games".  In this model, the season would have not started yet.

Ultimately,  there is not a model will benefit everyone, but if you can get more people in the seats, for more of the season, then many of the other obstacles can be addressed.  

And to your comment "the rich get richer", there are less than 10 teams that are in black financially, so 95%+ of the teams are underwater.  It's more like the poor hope to begin treading water.

Thanks for sharing LeftyDadP9.

I like the thought that these coaches got together, addressed issues and put together a straw-man proposal.  They aren't sitting around as their sport is losing funding, scholarships, etc...   They went outside to get input as well from others like Dr James Andrews.   I believe there are real solutions for P5 schools in the proposal but I also think there are gaps for the balance of college baseball teams.   This is not a solution for ALL of college baseball.   This is a solution for P5 schools, however I think there are some nuggets in this proposal that could be used by other NCAA levels.    If I was an AD/HC at a D3 school, I'd be "on the horn" talking with my conference leaders and peer schools discussing this proposal.   

Additionally, the P5 schools have leverage with the NCAA.  So, if they want to make this happen they have the juice to do it.   I'm not so sure about the rest of college baseball...I believe they are beholden to NCAA feudalism.   Trying to sell this as a better chance to be true student-athletes is just spin by the P5 schools, and I'm not buying it at this time.   It is about money, funding and scholarships.    Time will tell where this goes, but I think they are off to a good start.

**Hot Take Alert**

There are 299 D1 Baseball teams, and only 122 averaged 2,000+ fans last year (from the article).  This tells me that 177 programs are not really supported by the school/community (generally speaking).

There are 130 FBS schools in Football . . . Maybe it's time that baseball split into FBS / FCS Division's, and the key requirement for FBS teams is the scholarships are fully funded.  

To move the game forward, it may require dropping some programs and operating more like football.

I’m really confused how people can’t see the benefit for non-P5 schools??? Northeast schools??? This is forward focused,pro active  thinking. It’s about costs more than attendance.

They threw in the academic advantage as an afterthought, but it makes a lot of sense from that point of view.  Who pays for the dorms and meals when freshmen come in the summer before they start?

At the end they mentioned the recruiting/summer league part, which would also have to change quite dramatically, with more emphasis on fall events, and that's not so good for the high school student-athletes.

As far as attendance, in a college town of a D1 that I'm familiar with, the college baseball is popular, but once the high school and little league seasons start, attending games becomes harder because the kids who are most interested are playing their own games.  We went to a lot of early spring games, when the weather was decent.  There's not a huge audience of just random baseball fans, that I can see, and they would lose the audience of their own students, not that that ever seemed very big.

@anotherparent posted:

They threw in the academic advantage as an afterthought, but it makes a lot of sense from that point of view.  Who pays for the dorms and meals when freshmen come in the summer before they start?

At the end they mentioned the recruiting/summer league part, which would also have to change quite dramatically, with more emphasis on fall events, and that's not so good for the high school student-athletes.

As far as attendance, in a college town of a D1 that I'm familiar with, the college baseball is popular, but once the high school and little league seasons start, attending games becomes harder because the kids who are most interested are playing their own games.  We went to a lot of early spring games, when the weather was decent.  There's not a huge audience of just random baseball fans, that I can see, and they would lose the audience of their own students, not that that ever seemed very big.

You are right. Dorms are always open. It wouldn't cost a parent more. I also remember that once school is over and baseball is still being played they get an allowance daily for food. 

Large crowds don't exist for smaller programs unless it's a regional rival or conference rival. Once school is out, the crowds are really thinned out.

Not all P5 programs have large crowds.

It just seemed to me a group of P5 coaches got together and decided this would be a good idea, but realistically, no matter what, the same programs will be in Omaha, which will be more miserable in July, than in June due to heat and rain.

If this means helping save college baseball I'm for it

@Fmr coach now Dad posted:

I’m really confused how people can’t see the benefit for non-P5 schools??? Northeast schools??? This is forward focused,pro active  thinking. It’s about costs more than attendance.

I'm confused on how you can see the benefit to non-P5 schools since they weren't included in the conversation?   Agree it is focused, proactive thinking for the P5s (only) at this time.

Possibly this is a roadmap for the non-P5 schools, but they've got to start their own conversations to protect their interests, funding and scholarships

@LeftyDadP9 posted:

**Hot Take Alert**

There are 299 D1 Baseball teams, and only 122 averaged 2,000+ fans last year (from the article).  This tells me that 177 programs are not really supported by the school/community (generally speaking).

There are 130 FBS schools in Football . . . Maybe it's time that baseball split into FBS / FCS Division's, and the key requirement for FBS teams is the scholarships are fully funded.  

To move the game forward, it may require dropping some programs and operating more like football.

299 "D1" baseball programs is a ridiculous number.  Everybody loves a good Cinderella story, but once you get past the top 50-60 these teams have zero chance of winning a national title.  UNFORTUNATELY, players love to say they're playing "D1" ball.  Parents often love saying it even more.  And the Baseball Industrial Complex loves selling the illusion.   So yeah, a FBS/FCS system makes a lot of sense.  But, I don't see how it's gonna solve any of the money issues facing college programs.  Most college presidents would scream bloody murder if they had to fund significantly more than 11.7.

@TPM posted:

You are right. Dorms are always open. It wouldn't cost a parent more. I also remember that once school is over and baseball is still being played they get an allowance daily for food. 

Large crowds don't exist for smaller programs unless it's a regional rival or conference rival. Once school is out, the crowds are really thinned out.

Not all P5 programs have large crowds.

It just seemed to me a group of P5 coaches got together and decided this would be a good idea, but realistically, no matter what, the same programs will be in Omaha, which will be more miserable in July, than in June due to heat and rain.

Only place worse than Omaha in June is Columbia, SC, where the only thing that separates you from Hell is a screen door. 

When news of Chicago State came out about possibly dropping baseball, I looked at their 2020 Schedule.  Here is their travel from Feb 14th-March 20:  NC (Western Carolina), FL (Snowbird Classic) IL (Midwest tourney), AL (Auburn), KY (Louisville), HI (U of Hawaii) and then to Arizona to open WAC Play.  That is a tremendous amount of travel and cost for a program that at cancellation of season was 2-16.  I would think reducing that travel and having more regional games would save a significant amount of money.  I like the idea of a FBS/FCS type split as I think that more and more programs will be dropped if something isnt done to control the costs.  The Golden Goose has been infected and for many programs has been put on life support.  D2 is mandating a reduction of maximum games in all sports for 2020-21 seasons with baseball having 40 max and a minimum of 16.  Hate taking games away from the kids but if keeps programs viable, may not be a bad thing to look at across all levels. 

This will be way outside the box but maybe increase roster sizes to 40 (or some number) keep scholarships the same (since schools cant afford to fully fund now anyway) and you have added 5 full tuition/revenue paying kids to the team.  Perhaps that opens up more opportunity for players and donors who can afford to send kid to school and pay for it.

Big take away from article is that things can not continue as they have been or there will be fewer opportunities for kids to play in college.  Just my 2 cents...

@MTH posted:

Only place worse than Omaha in June is Columbia, SC, where the only thing that separates you from Hell is a screen door. 

I am assuming you mean mosquitos! Lol

Used to be a huge issue here but due to Zika, but they spray all the time, which is probably really bad for us. 

I have been to Omaha, Missouri, Jersey, NY during summer months but the worst ever was in June in Gainesville. Horrible. I actually hated every minute of it. 

@MTH posted:

299 "D1" baseball programs is a ridiculous number.  Everybody loves a good Cinderella story, but once you get past the top 50-60 these teams have zero chance of winning a national title.  UNFORTUNATELY, players love to say they're playing "D1" ball.  Parents often love saying it even more.  And the Baseball Industrial Complex loves selling the illusion.   So yeah, a FBS/FCS system makes a lot of sense.  But, I don't see how it's gonna solve any of the money issues facing college programs.  Most college presidents would scream bloody murder if they had to fund significantly more than 11.7.

 

Yeah, when I said "fully funded" I meant the 11.7.

What has been happening for too long is we can't do "x" because it hurts the bottom "y" teams.   The vast majority of those 299 D1 programs are only in existence because at some point, the school could field a baseball team cheaply.  Well, those days have come and gone.  If you can't afford to field a team, then you're only hurting the sport by continuity being a roadblock.

Let's identify the schools that are willing to fully fund the 11.7, and you will have a number of teams who are committed, financially, to the game.  Every other school can play "FCS" or a level they can afford.  

The $$$ for college baseball is available, if the model can be adjusted.  We see this with the ratings and money ESPN pays for the CWS . . . it's a ratings hit!  And the Regionals and Omaha are packed with fans.

Thinking outside the box, may mean to think about big picture and not have 299 teams playing by the same rules.

@MTH posted:

Only place worse than Omaha in June is Columbia, SC, where the only thing that separates you from Hell is a screen door. 

Omaha in the summer is a problem? News to me. Try East Texas.

I think the proposals are solid. Baseball up north sucks early on. The travel savings alone would be huge for all levels of college baseball. Most northern D3's go south early on. I can see the later season interfering with those who have internships and jobs lined up. The vast majority of BB players will not play after college, and have to prepare for the real world, as well as help pay tuition.

In a vacuum, it would make sense.  For northern baseball programs it makes sense, but not for student athletes.  If baseball were a money maker, it would make sense.  But it isn't.

I just don't see it happening.  College Baseball has a number of guys just in college to play, but it still has a significant amount of student-athletes.  College Football and Basketball players are primarily athletes forced to also be something resembling a student.  Being a real student means real majors, and too many of those require summer internships for securing an after college career.  Things like engineering, computer science, cyber security, accounting, marketing, etc.  The NCAA liking this model is a looooonnnnng shot.

@anotherparent posted:

They threw in the academic advantage as an afterthought, but it makes a lot of sense from that point of view.  Who pays for the dorms and meals when freshmen come in the summer before they start?

At the end they mentioned the recruiting/summer league part, which would also have to change quite dramatically, with more emphasis on fall events, and that's not so good for the high school student-athletes.

As far as attendance, in a college town of a D1 that I'm familiar with, the college baseball is popular, but once the high school and little league seasons start, attending games becomes harder because the kids who are most interested are playing their own games.  We went to a lot of early spring games, when the weather was decent.  There's not a huge audience of just random baseball fans, that I can see, and they would lose the audience of their own students, not that that ever seemed very big.

I would think the parents foot the bill for freshman that come in the summer. It's called summer school. I don't think you can go just to go. You have to take some classes. And in order to play, I'm pretty sure most people would be happy to and/or schools chip in given the bump in attendance/concessions, less travel??? Does offer %age also apply to summer school, doesn't it? 

What are the coaching/instruction limitations during the summer now? I think I heard nothing smaller than groups of 4? Can anyone confirm? 

The only athletes the fall-shifted focus would be/is Football players.  No issues with basketball. No issues filling the stands in Ft Meyers and Jupiter in October with fans, coaches, and scouts.   No issues at the June big tourneys during CWS either. Plenty of coaches in attendance. 

Attendance would improve as it wouldn't compete with college basketball early on and better weather makes for easier games to attend.  Earlier in March would bring the CWS closer to July 4th and allow Omaha to host youth tourneys too. That was a really cool experience when we went to Omaha for a tourney and got free tickets to the CWS. 

Summer is HOT. Especially in the south. That's why they make tint and AC. Hell, it was 100 yesterday in Austin/Fredericksburg, TX.  Could always shift playoffs north if too hot in the south or west???

Not sure how the timing of Summer Leagues would work of bleed into August. Not much of a break for the students that make it to the Semis/Championship....

@Eokerholm posted:

I would think the parents foot the bill for freshman that come in the summer. It's called summer school. I don't think you can go just to go. You have to take some classes. And in order to play, I'm pretty sure most people would be happy to and/or schools chip in given the bump in attendance/concessions, less travel??? Does offer %age also apply to summer school, doesn't it? 

What are the coaching/instruction limitations during the summer now? I think I heard nothing smaller than groups of 4? Can anyone confirm? 

The only athletes the fall-shifted focus would be/is Football players.  No issues with basketball. No issues filling the stands in Ft Meyers and Jupiter in October with fans, coaches, and scouts.   No issues at the June big tourneys during CWS either. Plenty of coaches in attendance. 

Attendance would improve as it wouldn't compete with college basketball early on and better weather makes for easier games to attend.  Earlier in March would bring the CWS closer to July 4th and allow Omaha to host youth tourneys too. That was a really cool experience when we went to Omaha for a tourney and got free tickets to the CWS. 

Summer is HOT. Especially in the south. That's why they make tint and AC. Hell, it was 100 yesterday in Austin/Fredericksburg, TX.  Could always shift playoffs north if too hot in the south or west???

Not sure how the timing of Summer Leagues would work of bleed into August. Not much of a break for the students that make it to the Semis/Championship....

 

Many baseball players attend summer school, especially pitchers. They have an opportunity to get to know the landscape,  work with strength and conditioning coach. In some cases it's covered by scholarship money, in some not.

Coaches cannot work with you, during the summer, more than likely they aren't even around as they are on the road recruiting.