Interesting. maybe sports related or set up housing off campus is done in May. Wonder if that is school owned or just the way it works over there.  Not the case in Ohio or per EB at Mich, 12 month leases.

Dorm to dorm isn't too bad (since you can't have too much stuff in a dorm anyway) but moving apartments would be a pain and not ideal. Couple of boxes of clothes and their Xbox .

GT athletes all in same dorm, so wonder if they would just move rooms/floors, if at all? 

How does that work with summer leagues and play too and where to you go or store your stuff if/when you do? 

Additionally, not sure how the timing of all this affects the timing of the draft or you're back at a draft in July (instead of June) during CWS play offs with signing deadlines in August before school starts. Again only affects players on the 16 teams playing in July. Not fun for Coaches for Roster management with August deadline, but I'm sure they'd manage or have a pretty good inkling in early July and after draft who goes/stays.

Definitely room for improvement and inclusion and they can do better. 

**I'm super happy College Baseball is back on TV. CSBI was great to watch Thursday. Very thankful for their hard work in getting it set up and to take off. Hopefully all goes smoothly and that gas lights the rest of play for the summer, leagues, etc!! Fingers crossed!

Last edited by Eokerholm
@Eokerholm posted:

Why would schools want to compete for business and butts in seats with Basketball and March Madness? After basketball more marketing time/slots/money focused on/for baseball? Keep the school spirit momentum and boost attendance with better weather.

Baseball isn't competing with basketball at all, they're on two different planets. Even if you were to go that route and say basketball is taking away from college baseball's popularity, the last home game for basketball happens the first week of March before conferences tournaments start. That cuts two maybe three weeks into current baseball schedule. March Madness might keep a casual from paying close attention to baseball, but the truth is only baseball fans watch baseball anyway.

 

The way I interpreted the new model was that Northern schools are good and would be better if we started later with warmer weather and it would reduce costs. That was the main point I took from it, everything else was an additional benefit - like attendance. The attendance is a moot point because once May 1st hits and finals start there is a mass exodus of students, professors, and interested parents going to games anyway. The costs will add up on the back end as well once students are kicked out of dorms the week finals end and players are going to be moved into dorms are most leases on off campus housing end mid May-June1 with many only being 10 month leases. 

The truth is that a lot of programs are going to go the way of BGSU if the season starts on Feb 14, and they probably should. Traveling is too expensive and hard to justify when your team goes 12-42. I'm for the season starting later, but I'm also for a shorter season in general. 

I don't care for an FBS/FCS split like some are suggesting. ECU hosted a regional last year, they are a very strong program. They also just cut a few successful sports. You think their AD/Pres is keen on adding more scholarships? I know the SEC programs are bringing in some money, but these are the same programs that voted no to another paid asst, why do we think they're going to shell out more scholarship money. Baseball is in trouble, this proposal was made by those who recognize that. Unless you were going to go with a FCS < 6.0 scholarships and FBS > 6.0 with a cap at 15 I don't see why it's necessary. Now you have to travel more to find opponents in your division. Then it comes back to college programs are losing money and now you want to spend more, which is also true. 

@PABaseball posted:

The way I interpreted the new model was that Northern schools are good and would be better if we started later with warmer weather and it would reduce costs. That was the main point I took from it, everything else was an additional benefit - like attendance. The attendance is a moot point because once May 1st hits and finals start there is a mass exodus of students, professors, and interested parents going to games anyway. The costs will add up on the back end as well once students are kicked out of dorms the week finals end and players are going to be moved into dorms are most leases on off campus housing end mid May-June1 with many only being 10 month leases. 

The truth is that a lot of programs are going to go the way of BGSU if the season starts on Feb 14, and they probably should. Traveling is too expensive and hard to justify when your team goes 12-42. I'm for the season starting later, but I'm also for a shorter season in general. 

 

I did mention that season began later many years ago. They moved it back to February because teams up north complaining that southern programs were already out on field weeks before they were supposed to. That resulted in rules as to when coaches can and cannot work with the team.  I don't see why baseball players can't show up earlier on campus during January.  Coaches can't recruit then anyway! 

The earlier schedule allows northern teams to travel south to play a month before conference play begins. I remember the days of 5 games per week, every week with coaches having concerns that you can't forget that these players are students first. APR #s were not good. 

I agree with you on attendance being a moot point. However it's nice to have thousands of fans on your home turf.

The whole thing doesn't matter to me, I don't have a player, I am just confused as to why go backwards, the way I see it.  The traveling to find opponents in your division would pose an issue, but no more than it is for northern teams to travel south.

I have sat in the stands with parents of opposing teams, and they and the players love, I mean really love being in Florida, February,  March. 

I mean seriously, the beach is 3.8 miles away!

@TPM posted:

I did mention that season began later many years ago. They moved it back to February because teams up north complaining that southern programs were already out on field weeks before they were supposed to. That resulted in rules as to when coaches can and cannot work with the team.  I don't see why baseball players can't show up earlier on campus during January.  Coaches can't recruit then anyway! 

The earlier schedule allows northern teams to travel south to play a month before conference play begins. I remember the days of 5 games per week, every week with coaches having concerns that you can't forget that these players are students first. APR #s were not good. 

I agree with you on attendance being a moot point. However it's nice to have thousands of fans on your home turf.

The whole thing doesn't matter to me, I don't have a player, I am just confused as to why go backwards, the way I see it.  The traveling to find opponents in your division would pose an issue, but no more than it is for northern teams to travel south.

I have sat in the stands with parents of opposing teams, and they and the players love, I mean really love being in Florida, February,  March. 

I mean seriously, the beach is 3.8 miles away!

I have no dog in the fight either, in fact I was one of those opposing fans on the beach all day before heading to the stadium for opening night. Our program can afford to travel thru March, if I have an excuse to be on a beach in Feb I'll take it every time. I just know that it has become very obvious that most teams cannot and should not be doing that if they want to have a program to come back to the following year. 

@PABaseball posted:

I have no dog in the fight either, in fact I was one of those opposing fans on the beach all day before heading to the stadium for opening night. Our program can afford to travel thru March, if I have an excuse to be on a beach in Feb I'll take it every time. I just know that it has become very obvious that most teams cannot and should not be doing that if they want to have a program to come back to the following year. 

I agree with your last sentence. 

I actually just learned that CUSA has 14 teams, 2 do not have baseball.  I don't know if it has always been like that, but I think this may be the beginning of things to come for many programs.

 

@TPM posted:

Pedaldad,

I am assuming that Michigan and OSU show up later in attendance because they travel to warmer climates for about a month.  My girlfriend's son is a coach at OSU. They hadn't even played a game at home yet when everything was closed down. Their attendance doesn't matter because football supports their program. 

Games played affects RPI, so not sure how that would work out. Plus, for the smaller programs, you more than likely would not have enough arms, so rosters have to be expanded.

I just think it's ridiculous to put all teams together when there is such disparity between the number 1 and 300th RPI teams, in talent as well as in $$$$$. If you don't hit specific numbers or win your conference, you will never get to a regional. 

If you want to make it fair, then do so. 

Just sayin......

 

I do not disagree on the disparity between number one and number 300 at all.  But I think the disparity in talent falls more along an "northern program vs southern program" than it does "mid-major vs P5".   

As for Michigan and OSU, the ranking is per home game attendance.

I can name mid-major after mid-major in the south that is loaded with more  talent and more than 1/2 the teams in most (not the SEC) P5 conferences.  All the southern teams in the American could hold their own in any conference,  and that 1/2 of the American has more talent than all of the Big 10.  The western 1/2 of CUSA is as good as any.  Most teams in the Sunbelt could compete anywhere. 

I have seen a lot of college baseball over the past decade and know how to judge talent, as I am sure you do.  I'd challenge anyone to watch D2 Peach Belt teams and compare the talent to the Big 10, or bottom 1/2 of the Big 12, and PAC.  Teams like Flagler, USC Aiken, and Georgia College are loaded with talent , a lot of it from former ACC and SEC commits looking for more playing time.  A lot of it from players that decided to stay in-state rather than go spend a fortune at out-of-state D1 because D1 programs in GA, SC, and Florida only have so many spots.

Again, I think there is a dichotomy, I just think it is more north vs south.  Most likely because kids from the south get more reps growing up.

@Pedaldad posted:

I do not disagree on the disparity between number one and number 300 at all.  But I think the disparity in talent falls more along an "northern program vs southern program" than it does "mid-major vs P5".   

As for Michigan and OSU, the ranking is per home game attendance.

I can name mid-major after mid-major in the south that is loaded with more  talent and more than 1/2 the teams in most (not the SEC) P5 conferences.  All the southern teams in the American could hold their own in any conference,  and that 1/2 of the American has more talent than all of the Big 10.  The western 1/2 of CUSA is as good as any.  Most teams in the Sunbelt could compete anywhere. 

I have seen a lot of college baseball over the past decade and know how to judge talent, as I am sure you do.  I'd challenge anyone to watch D2 Peach Belt teams and compare the talent to the Big 10, or bottom 1/2 of the Big 12, and PAC.  Teams like Flagler, USC Aiken, and Georgia College are loaded with talent , a lot of it from former ACC and SEC commits looking for more playing time.  A lot of it from players that decided to stay in-state rather than go spend a fortune at out-of-state D1 because D1 programs in GA, SC, and Florida only have so many spots.

Again, I think there is a dichotomy, I just think it is more north vs south.  Most likely because kids from the south get more reps growing up.

I am not a judge of talent. 

I think that teams are built differently, offense or defense.  Some both.  Depends on the coach.

D2 baseball is awesome. There isn't much difference between very good D2 teams and very good D1 teams. I am more familiar with Florida Teams. Tampa could beat UF, FSU, UM. My opinion.  Some of the eastern CUSA east teams have made coaching changes. Was looking forward to this season. But yes many western teams are strong. Rice, Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, all get players that can play P5.

I can't believe it's June 6 and regional tournies would be here. For some reason this time has gone very quickly.  

Nice discussion.

 

@LeftyDadP9 posted:

Yeah, when I said "fully funded" I meant the 11.7.

What has been happening for too long is we can't do "x" because it hurts the bottom "y" teams.   The vast majority of those 299 D1 programs are only in existence because at some point, the school could field a baseball team cheaply.  Well, those days have come and gone.  If you can't afford to field a team, then you're only hurting the sport by continuity being a roadblock.

Let's identify the schools that are willing to fully fund the 11.7, and you will have a number of teams who are committed, financially, to the game.  Every other school can play "FCS" or a level they can afford.  

The $$$ for college baseball is available, if the model can be adjusted.  We see this with the ratings and money ESPN pays for the CWS . . . it's a ratings hit!  And the Regionals and Omaha are packed with fans.

Thinking outside the box, may mean to think about big picture and not have 299 teams playing by the same rules.

As you are aware, a school will have to consider the EADA component when considering to increase baseball funding.

What is the EADA? (I had to look it up)
The Equity in Athletics Disclosure Act (EADA) is a federal law passed in 1994 that requires universities and colleges to make available gender equity information about their athletic programs
@Pedaldad posted:

I do not disagree on the disparity between number one and number 300 at all.  But I think the disparity in talent falls more along an "northern program vs southern program" than it does "mid-major vs P5".   

……………………………….

……………………………...

Again, I think there is a dichotomy, I just think it is more north vs south.  Most likely because kids from the south get more reps growing up.

Well it certainly helps your argument that all P5 east coast baseball focused schools are in the South or warm weather.   I'm not buying the north vs south argument.   I'm buying the P5 vs D1 Mid-Major argument as I've seen the talent depth differences between the two.   There have been plenty of successful northern college baseball teams in the last 10+ years that have played at the highest levels.  Those teams were chalk full of northern kids.

What I have witnessed is a lot of talented northern kids being recruited or coming to the south, southeast or mid-atlantic to play P5 college baseball.    They come for the weather, college opportunity, infrastructure, program success, and baseball pipeline to the next level.  I can't speak to the West coast differences.

JMO.

 

Pedaldad: Again, I think there is a dichotomy, I just think it is more north vs south.  Most likely because kids from the south get more reps growing up.

Nah, it's the water.

@fenwaysouth posted:

Well it certainly helps your argument that all P5 east coast baseball focused schools are in the South or warm weather.   I'm not buying the north vs south argument.   I'm buying the P5 vs D1 Mid-Major argument as I've seen the talent depth differences between the two.   There have been plenty of successful northern college baseball teams in the last 10+ years that have played at the highest levels.  Those teams were chalk full of northern kids.

What I have witnessed is a lot of talented northern kids being recruited or coming to the south, southeast or mid-atlantic to play P5 college baseball.    They come for the weather, college opportunity, infrastructure, program success, and baseball pipeline to the next level.  I can't speak to the West coast differences.

JMO.

 

This is the beauty of us all being able to have our own opinion.   

Like TPM said earlier, there are D2 teams down south (and I would add several JUCO teams down south) let alone southern "mid-majors"   fully capable of competing with the best P5 has has to offer.  Coastal won the College Word a few years ago.  In the shortened season this year, UCF pummeled #8 Auburn in a weekend series,  Georgia Southern did the same to #3 Georgia.  Georgia stopped offering Mercer a home and home series two years ago after Mercer won 7 of the last 8 in the series.  Southern Miss has some of the top talent in the country every year.  Look at how many pitchers from Furman have already found new homes at P5s.  It is different down south, there is such a concentration of talent that everyone is good.

 

 

@TPM posted:

I am not a judge of talent. 

I think that teams are built differently, offense or defense.  Some both.  Depends on the coach.

D2 baseball is awesome. There isn't much difference between very good D2 teams and very good D1 teams. I am more familiar with Florida Teams. Tampa could beat UF, FSU, UM. My opinion.  Some of the eastern CUSA east teams have made coaching changes. Was looking forward to this season. But yes many western teams are strong. Rice, Louisiana Tech, Southern Miss, all get players that can play P5.

I can't believe it's June 6 and regional tournies would be here. For some reason this time has gone very quickly.  

Nice discussion.

 

Sound like a good judge of talent to me.

All this talk about all these different teams makes me want to move back to the mainland.  So much to choose from.

U Hawaii usually has a good home schedule (with attendance that's often in the top 20), but they and D2 Hawaii Pacific are the only teams we have access to.

And going to an LSU home game must be a blast.

@Pedaldad posted:

This is the beauty of us all being able to have our own opinion.   

Like TPM said earlier, there are D2 teams down south (and I would add several JUCO teams down south) let alone southern "mid-majors"   fully capable of competing with the best P5 has has to offer.  Coastal won the College Word a few years ago.  In the shortened season this year, UCF pummeled #8 Auburn in a weekend series,  Georgia Southern did the same to #3 Georgia.  Georgia stopped offering Mercer a home and home series two years ago after Mercer won 7 of the last 8 in the series.  Southern Miss has some of the top talent in the country every year.  Look at how many pitchers from Furman have already found new homes at P5s.  It is different down south, there is such a concentration of talent that everyone is good.

 

 

Southern Miss guys play with a chip on their shoulder because they didnt get to play at LSU or State. 

Actually I could say the same for a lot of mid D1, D2 players.  That's why they are good.

 

 

 

@Eokerholm posted:

Interesting chart. Huge differences in avg attendances. Would love to see more current numbers.

Aside from the finance improvement for MOST, Are people over looking the benefit to a longer ramp up for Spring (after being home for 6 weeks and not playing for 12)? Not playing in the cold at most locations.

Only 16 schools play in July. The housing cost...for the month of June....for fresh and soph (if they're in the dorm) if the other players are in an apartment, 12 month lease, no additional cost can't be more than travel/preseason guarantees and boosted concessions/tickets/merch from more butts in seats? For the 16 schools that play in July. They should be happy to pay the minimal charge to be in the hunt and on to Omaha (Marketing, bonuses, etc.). 

Currently CWS is in June after a lot of schools get out, (mostly southern or warm weather). They don't seem to be complaining about housing the team after school lets out Memorial Day? 

Why would schools want to compete for business and butts in seats with Basketball and March Madness? After basketball more marketing time/slots/money focused on/for baseball? Keep the school spirit momentum and boost attendance with better weather.

What about the academic and stress reduction on Fall and Spring Semesters for the student athletes? Let them get deeper into their classes and catch a rhythm before the chaos of fall ball or spring season.

If the current system is OBVIOUSLY not working or profitable, (but for a handful of schools), why not try to make a change/improvement that benefits the masses? Freaking Vandy is only break even....

LSU, Arkansas and others on the list above are doing well because they have more butts in more seats and with better weather, that would be the case for other programs across the country. 

Now is the time for and to change. Get college baseball back towards being more profitable and protect it from the chopping block. Give it a chance to fund the 3rd paid assistant and give that guy or gal insurance and benefits. Get scholarships funded up to 15 or something to give the sport more parity and a chance. 

Change is hard and stressful, good or bad, but now is the time to embrace change and give college baseball a really good chance to protect itself. No

Not trying to be contrary here, but, a couple of things to consider.  For many of the D1 mids and smaller, there is no gate fee. Often times a parking fee, but no gate. Also, if the student body is done with school, who exactly will be in attendance at these games in May and June?  Typically, there are +/- zero students at games finals week and after (at the mids). I personally like the idea of starting later because weather will be better. But I don’t think $ will be saved.

@Pedaldad posted:

I do not disagree on the disparity between number one and number 300 at all.  But I think the disparity in talent falls more along an "northern program vs southern program" than it does "mid-major vs P5".   

As for Michigan and OSU, the ranking is per home game attendance.

I can name mid-major after mid-major in the south that is loaded with more  talent and more than 1/2 the teams in most (not the SEC) P5 conferences.  All the southern teams in the American could hold their own in any conference,  and that 1/2 of the American has more talent than all of the Big 10.  The western 1/2 of CUSA is as good as any.  Most teams in the Sunbelt could compete anywhere. 

I have seen a lot of college baseball over the past decade and know how to judge talent, as I am sure you do.  I'd challenge anyone to watch D2 Peach Belt teams and compare the talent to the Big 10, or bottom 1/2 of the Big 12, and PAC.  Teams like Flagler, USC Aiken, and Georgia College are loaded with talent , a lot of it from former ACC and SEC commits looking for more playing time.  A lot of it from players that decided to stay in-state rather than go spend a fortune at out-of-state D1 because D1 programs in GA, SC, and Florida only have so many spots.

Again, I think there is a dichotomy, I just think it is more north vs south.  Most likely because kids from the south get more reps growing up.

And because every baseball player wants to play where the weather is normal baseball weather. Schools in the warmer climates generally speaking get the pick of the litter from all over the country. 

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