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Private/Public Championships.

BishopLeftiesDadBishopLeftiesDad10,000+ posts
I posted this in the OH forum but it probably will not get a lot of eyes there so I will post it here as well.

Currently Ohio High Schools all compete for a championship based on enrollment. The higher enrollment the higher your division.

Public and private school all compete against the other and there is one championship for each division.

OHSAA is re-visting this again and there will be a vote to see if the championships should be divided further into Public vs. Private.

The issue with some seems to be that they think that the playing field is not fair and the private schools can recruit and some offer scholarships plus their record of success makes it impossible for the public's to compete.

The other viewpoint is that to be the best you must be the best, and this is another way to cheapen the championships.

I would be interested in everyone's viewpoint and experience in other states and how thye have there championships configured.

If you want to take the poll you can here:

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/f...6002781/m/5247042826
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MizzoubaseballMizzoubaseball1,000+ posts
Missouri is done by total enrollment. Football has 6 classes, baseball 5, basketball 5, and the rest I have no idea. I am pretty sure that all classes have the same amount of schools in each, but in football there may be about half as many in class 6 as the others. Baseball is going from 4 classes to 5 classes this year. Public and private schools all compete for the same state championship, and that is the way I think it should be.

We do have one thing different. Private schools have what they call a "multiplier" done to their enrollment to make up for recruiting and not having district boundaries. They take their enrollment and multiply it by 1.35 I believe and that is the enrollment figure they use to determine what class they are in. It doesnt matter if it is a coed school or same *** school, you get hit with the same multiplier.

Everything is on a two year cycle. This school year is year one of the current cycle, so schools will be in the same districts and classes this year and next and then will reclassify for the 2014-15 school year.
Stats4GnatsStats4Gnats10,000+ posts
We’re much like Mizzou, but I sure do like that “multiplier”!

The top local privates here are about $16K per year, and undeniably get many of the area’s best.

But, since I’ve been around the system for about 15 years now, I’m pretty used to it. We have one of the best privates in our league now, and it’s a real challenge to beat them.
justbaseballjustbaseball10,000+ posts
As noted, in CA they are all in the same pool and compete based on enrollment. No separation of privates and publics. In baseball, we don't go to a full state championship...we stop at section titles...can't remember but there are around 8 of those in the state.

Also in baseball...at least in our section (Central Coast), teams can 'petition up' to a higher level. Most of the power house private schools do that...all the way up to Division-1 and thus they are competing for the titles against other schools with bigger enrollments.

Still, the privates win more titles than the publics at the high levels. But not always below Division-1 in our section where there remains a smattering of less powerful privates mixed in with the publics.

Through two sons...the older played at a relatively weak public and the younger one played at a powerhouse private...we saw both sides of the fence. Older one made it to the playoffs twice which was a pretty big deal at that school. Younger son played in title game twice...winning once, a 12-0 smoking of a much bigger (and also powerhouse) private. That team wasn't gonna lose to anyone on a normal night.

I like having them in the same pool...even having been on both sides. When our younger son's team lost to a public in the semis in his senior year, it was (believe it or not) almost enjoyable watching the other team celebrate. Losing $ucks, but that was a classy team and coach and they were the better team and deserved to win.

I dunno, those are pretty random thoughts. I grew up in Ohio, BishopLeftiesDad...went to a public myself who couldn't compete with the likes of Moeller, St. X and others...but still, I like that they compete with each other in state playoff games.
Last edited by justbaseball
B baseball17500+ posts
In Illinois, this has been a hot topic for several years, especially in football. Illinoishighschoolsports.com has many extensive threads on public/private debate. Illinois has used a multiplier in a couple of different ways. I'm not a big football fan, but I do seem to remember that private schools can also be bumped up or down, depending upon post season success or failure, after the multiplier is applied.

I'm not sure how the multiplier is used in other sports, if at all. Been way too many years since actively involved in high school issues.
fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
New Jersey has separate titles for private and public. Each one has a few different levels (Groups). A few of the privates are powerhouse teams that can be in the top 10 nationally a couple of different sports. Some of the privates are no better than an average public.

Publics and privates play each other during the year and are even in the same conferences, but playoffs are separate.
BishopLeftiesDadBishopLeftiesDad10,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by justbaseball:
As noted, in CA they are all in the same pool and compete based on enrollment. No separation of privates and publics. In baseball, we don't go to a full state championship...we stop at section titles...can't remember but there are around 8 of those in the state.

Also in baseball...at least in our section (Central Coast), teams can 'petition up' to a higher level. Most of the power house private schools do that...all the way up to Division-1 and thus they are competing for the titles against other schools with bigger enrollments.

Still, the privates win more titles than the publics at the high levels. But not always below Division-1 in our section where there remains a smattering of less powerful privates mixed in with the publics.

Through two sons...the older played at a relatively weak public and the younger one played at a powerhouse private...we saw both sides of the fence. Older one made it to the playoffs twice which was a pretty big deal at that school. Younger son played in title game twice...winning once, a 12-0 smoking of a much bigger (and also powerhouse) private. That team wasn't gonna lose to anyone on a normal night.

I like having them in the same pool...even having been on both sides. When our younger son's team lost to a public in the semis in his senior year, it was (believe it or not) almost enjoyable watching the other team celebrate. Losing $ucks, but that was a classy team and coach and they were the better team and deserved to win.

I dunno, those are pretty random thoughts. I grew up in Ohio, BishopLeftiesDad...went to a public myself who couldn't compete with the likes of Moeller, St. X and others...but still, I like that they compete with each other in state playoff games.


Thanks Just Baseball. I hope they do not separate.
Last year there was a proposition to change it from straight enrollment and move to enrollment plus a modifier. The modifier would increase based on the geographic area you pulled from and your teams historical success. Teams that were winning more state championships had a higher multiplier. They also included the number of students you had on the free lunch program. The more you had the lower you multiplier.

It went down in flames due to the tradition multiplier. Schools did not want to be punished for being successful.
08Dad08Dad1,000+ posts
My son and I both attended a public school in the same section of California as Justbaseball's sons.

There are lots of conversations every year in this area about "can publics compete?"

I just point to the record books - no school, public or private, has won more sectional baseball championships than my son and my high school.

Some of the championships were in a small school division - but that meant no less to the kids who competed on that team. They played the teams in their bracket and won - and the dogpile was just as sweet.

Going back in time, the first championship was when I attended the school when the championship was one big free for all and our school of 1000 students beat schools of more than 4000 head to head. I know as a student at that time we had a lot of pride in that championship. I do think dividing by enrollment makes sense - but allowing for opting up also makes sense when an exceptional team comes along.

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