Promote son to high school coach???

I agree there are definitely kids the high school coach will know about before the player gets to HS.. IMHO these kids are usually the ones who are 6 foot, 170 pounds in 7th/8th grade. If my son is 5'4", 130 at tryouts he will be lucky. He is going to have to do something to stand out and be noticed at those tryouts. There are a lot of big, strong kids in this class of freshman.

I think every area is different, we live in a very populous area. There are probably 6-7 travel teams within 15 miles of our home, and that does not count the renegade teams started by the dads of the kids who did not make the travel teams. On any one of these teams players may be going to 4 different high schools, there is no way a freshman coach can keep track of this stuff. I am really struggling with the fact that the "coaches know who the players are". Again, if the player is 6 foot, 180 pounds and throws in the low 80's in 8th grade than I am sure the freshman coach hears of him - but the grinders, the good ballplayers who work hard all winter to improve, how do they get noticed?

As a coach, I have always said give me a kid who works hard over a kid who was blessed with the "big genes" any day. Some of those blessed kids think they have the world at their feet, and they probably do up to a point. I have always told my son you have to work harder than everybody else if you want to be better than everybody else. I have also told him life is not fair, you may work your a** off all fall/winter and not make the team and some kid who has done nothing all winter may make the team for whatever reason.

I am rambling...

Grinder, you're right about what freshman coaches don't know. In bigger cities in Texas, and small suburbs of the big cities, freshman baseball coaches are often football assistant coaches who don't know the first thing about baseball. If you get a baseball guy, you are fortunate. Remember, Michael Jordan didn't make his 8th grade basketball team because the coach didn't know what he was doing.

What I saw in tryouts though, is that you can pick the players from the rec kids just by watching them play catch. If your son introduces himself to the coach, plays solid fundamentals at tryouts and hussles like there's no tomorrow, he will stand out even if he's the smallest kid out there.

All coaches want the 6'5" 80 mph freshman. But they all also want the great attitude, hard workers they can plug in where they need them. He'll be fine. Don't be so worried as your son will pick up on it. Don't be worried about making mistakes...coaches love a coachable kid that makes aggressive mistakes...that clay in the artists hands. Main thing is to make sure he doesn't take a back seat and be hesitant...tell him to drive the bus and make the bigger guys catch up to him.

In my opinion, Grinder, you need to relax.

You are worrying about things that are outside of your control. The desire to promote your son to the coach is an attempt to control something that you can't control. It sounds as if you have been convinced by responses here that doing this is a bad idea - and I really congratulate you for taking the feedback to heart. If only every parent asked such questions and listened!

But I would say: take the next step, and let go. You've coached your son until now, but everything is different now. Let him take it from here, and let him display all the skills and maturity you taught him.

Lots of us have travelled down your path before you. Stepping aside isn't the easiest thing to do, but it is necessary, and it has its own rewards.

For one, when he succeeds, he and you both will know that he did it on his own.

For two - when you act the right way as a parent you get to watch all the other bufoons and say: "I'm glad I'm not THAT guy!"

Seriously, taking the back seat when you kid enters HS is perhaps the hardest adjustment an involved parent has to make. (Maybe a close second is sending him off to college where you won't be able to see every game? I don't know, I am soon to experience that one!)

You appear to be on the right path to stepping aside and letting your son make his way, and that is great. But for your own mental health, now you have to also emotionally let go and not stress about all those things that are out of your control.

Glad you are here on the HSBBW. I can tell you will get as much out of this place as I have since I found it at about the same stage in the process as you.

Rob -

Thanks for the encouraging words, believe it or not - even though it does not seem like it from my ramblings, I am very relaxed and have already adjusted to the process of "letting go". Even though I was a coach for his team the past 4 years, I never actually "coached" him much. In practices or games I let the other coaches instruct/talk/coach him. I am doing all I can to get him ready, which mostly involves driving him to his workouts then picking him up (and paying, of course).

I never had any intention of contacting the freshman coach with regards to my son. I was just wondering if other parents had done it and what the results were. You are right based on the responses given there is NO WAY on God's green earth I would do that. He knows what he has to do and he doing it, the chips will fall where they may.

This really is a great site, I am learning a lot and hope to contribute along the way as well.

Grinder (and all the other Freshman Parents):

Here is a link to a very useful list for your player of things to do and things not to do at tryouts.

http://hsbaseballweb.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6616002781/...011025902#9011025902

Best of luck to your son and all the other HSBBWers heading out for tryouts in the next few weeks.

grinder,

During the centuries, I saw a couple of travel team auditions, but avoided all high school tryouts, except my own.<s>

I mentioned this thread to HaverSon however, and his top-of-mind memory of 75+ player freshman tryouts was of the disproportionate number of (mostly oversized, slow and/or left handed) would-be 1st baseman and a similar sized group of (generally undersized) 2nd baseman.

fwiw: Assuming your son is selected, there are still plenty of useful tasks you can undertake, especially at-bat videos.

good luck/bonne chance...

quote:

Originally posted by grinder:
Let me pose this question... many people have said "The coaches already know the players". How do they know the players? Is someone calling them, are they calling people? Do they scout games? If the freshman hs coach in my area were to scout games, I do not think he would have time for much else.

I think no matter how well the players are known they still have to perform on the field. However in our area the coach's do follow the middle school and travel programs.

One thing that I found to be a good opportunity for the pre-high school players was to attend the HS coaches baseball camps. Not only did the players get good instruction, it also allowed the coaches a chance to get to know many of their potential players.

quote:

One thing that I found to be a good opportunity for the pre-high school players (6 Thur 8th grade) was to attend the HS baseball camps. Not only did the players get good instruction, it also allowed the coaches a chance to get to know many of their potential players.

This is a great thread for those entering high school baseball.

I forgot about the camps for the young players. I think that is the best way for a parent to "promte" their players, and, in the case of a move in, I think the introduction is very appropriate.

quote:

As a coach, I have always said give me a kid who works hard over a kid who was blessed with the "big genes" any day. Some of those blessed kids think they have the world at their feet, and they probably do up to a point. I have always told my son you have to work harder than everybody else if you want to be better than everybody else. I have also told him life is not fair, you may work your a** off all fall/winter and not make the team and some kid who has done nothing all winter may make the team for whatever reason.

Sometimes I find this stuff just not correct. As a coach I will take the kid with the most talent who gets it done. BTW, those big gene kids got a lot of heart also.

There's a weird perception that bigger kids get those scholarships and first round picks because they are simply bigger. Did anyone ever think that they didn't work hard for those opportunities?

Ok, mine was one of those guys with big genes who threw hard. While I will admit he didn't have to work as hard at getting bigger, as a pitcher he had to work hard for keeping his arm healthy and stamina to last 7 innings in HS and beyond 5-6 in college throwing over 90mph. Some people think that it is soooo easy to do. It is not, trust me.
He never felt that he had the world at his feet, and we never felt that way either. As a pitcher only for 2 HS seasons, he spent lots of time on the bench waiting for his start, and he worked like a dog to win a spot over the position players as a senior, to prove to the coach he could hit just as well if not better than anyone else. In college he had to work very hard to finally earn a weekend start as a junior. He even tried hard in college to prove he could hit it out of the park as well. They wouldn't let him.
You know how many times we have had to say the same thing to son about working harder and life wasn't fair? Most likely just as many times as some of you have had to. One should pass that onto their sons regardless of siza and shape, you should work your hardest in EVERYTHING that you do.
Big gene guys can and do work just as hard as everyone else. During sons HS, travel team and college years I saw that they came they came in all shapes and sizes. Talent comes in all shapes and sizes.
What I do find often is that this becomes an excuse for those who do not make a team, get the start, I hear often "it's because the bigger kids with better genes get the job before the smaller guys".
Maybe, perhaps the kids with those big genes just were better? I htink too many people use too many excuses (been guilty of that myself at times).
I am in agreement with the statement about entitlement, often seen in the parents NOT often in the players. What happens is that the kids pick up on it. If your son doesn't make the team it was for a reason, take it and work with it, instead of blaming it on those bigger gene kids.

What I also find interesting as a former teacher, parents often want to let their coaches know who their players are, very rarely do those parents come to school to let their teachers know who their sons are. They don't even show up for parent teacher night. They'll talk to the coach about field issues, but how many ever approach a teacher about classroom issues?
JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by jerseydad:

quote:

Originally posted by grinder:
Let me pose this question... many people have said "The coaches already know the players". How do they know the players? Is someone calling them, are they calling people? Do they scout games? If the freshman hs coach in my area were to scout games, I do not think he would have time for much else.

I think no matter how well the players are known they still have to perform on the field. However in our area the coach's do follow the middle school and travel programs.

One thing that I found to be a good opportunity for the pre-high school players in our area was to attend the HS coaches baseball camps. Not only did the players get good instruction, it also allowed the coaches a chance to get to know many of their potential players.

That is excellent advice jd! Just like in the Wizard of Oz where there are good witches and bad witches, there is good promotion and bad promotion TheEh's comments about his wife approaching the high school coach also seemed reasonable given the circumstances described (i.e., they were from out of town and were unaware of fall practice).

I never noticed the high school coaches scouting lower division games in the summertime. I suspect (in our area) they found out about kids beforehand from some of the travel coaches in the area. Our school was so big, we had many travel teams funnelling into it. The first freshman game I showed up at, I noticed the starting lineup included a large majority of kids from one of the prominent teams and I was suspicious about that. As I noted previously, my son was lucky to get the starting centerfielder job as a freshman even though he was the best infielder on the team imho. He and I kept our mouths closed however. As a sophmore on JV, he was the starting third baseman and the coaches could see for themselves he had a glove and an arm. He started the last two years on varisty as the shortstop.

In grinder's case and the number of kids trying out, it will be an honor first to make the freshman team. It will be really special if the young man gets to start. If not, there is no need to fret or panic. Many kids who may be batting-practice all-americans or received a good referral from someone will weed themselves out. Attitude and grades will weed some more out. Coaches want to win.

In the big school situation, even though some kids are not in the starting lineup - even as seniors in some cases, this does not preclude them from playing in college. If you are a catcher for example, and the best catcher in the area is on your team, it might be hard to get many reps behind the dish. Versatility can be a lifeline for a young player. The catcher, in this example, finding himself behind an all-conference kid might be able to play an infield position or outfield assuming the hitting is there. Versatility also works well in college. Sometimes getting that first chance is the hardest thing to do. I am aware of kids who never started in high school and went on to have productive college careers. These kids did play competitive travel ball in the summertime, thus they had enough experience from which to develop their skills.

quote:

some small percentage HS coaches are going to be total buffoons who let all the wrong factors infuence their evaluation of players,

This describes the prior head coach at our high school. The parents owned him. The team had seventeen losing seasons in twenty years. The new AD fired him. The new coach in his third year is still undoing the damage. Several parents (The Jury) of upperclassmen are grumbling behind the coach's back. We (parents of sophs and frosh) are laughing at their frustration. They don't have input anymore. The Jury is a bunch of rec ball coaches who think they could do a better job than the head coach. The head coach only played college and pro ball, then was an assistant at one of the top programs in the state. I steer clear of The Jury.

After this year's class of the disenchanted leave the program I'm making it my goal to pull the parents together to root for the team. Right now people sit in little factions ragging on each other faction's kids. To these parents, team success is secondary to their kids playing.

quote:

Seriously, taking the back seat when you kid enters HS is perhaps the hardest adjustment an involved parent has to make.

Absolutely! Even though I believe I'm a good travel coach, it's not in my son's best interest to coach him past fifteen years old. As he went through the "horse's behind fifteens" (similar to terrible twos) I got glares rather than acknowledgement even though he had a comfort level with me being a coach.

I talked to a coach interested in recruiting my son for his team. I told the coach my son needs a kick in the rear to the next level and I can't be the one to do it. He laughed and volunteered to kick him to the next level. Last fall my son played for a fall ball team I didn't coach. The only time he wanted me near the dugout was to pass on more Gatorade.

quote:

The only time he wanted me near the dugout was to pass on more Gatorade.

Our "baseball relationship" never really changed, we just publicly disconnected baseball-wise.

Soft toss and tee-hitting continued in our garage all winter and before games, except after-school games.

Video reviews of the previous game's at-bats were low-key and fun.

Early during H.S., we both took a bit of "abuse" from other parents/players about the video, but by the end of his soph season I got routine cash offers to video other people's kids.

As his success grew, teammates came to hit in our garage cage all KS-winter long. (A much better "social" investment than that foosball table was.)

Hats off to the reputable coaches out there making those tough decisions. Our H.S has between 60-80 trying out for 30 spots on the freshman team. J.V and varsity each have 30-40 trying out for 20-22 roster spots .

The fallout from the cuts is incredible. Lots of tears to much anger. It's has to be the worst thing about coaching! To tell a kid at least for now. Hang up your spikes.

20+ on a HS roster. That is a lot for HS. Ours was 14-15 max.

About average in our area. One school had 30 something. Out of 22 kids 5 or so are JAPs (just a pitcher) On earlier posts I've referred to the HS season as spring training for the summer and fall. That's the resaon alot of kids.

How many games do they play ? Our AAA city teams only have 14-15 and they play at least 4 times the number of games.

34 regular season games. If you make it to the finals another 4

For comparison, my son's h.s. had 23 on its varsity roster and played 31 regular-season and 11 post-season games. The higher-roster size is pretty typical at a lot of larger schools.

quote:

Originally posted by Infield08:
For comparison, my son's h.s. had 23 on its varsity roster and played 31 regular-season and 11 post-season games. The higher-roster size is pretty typical at a lot of larger schools.

Does the state have a roster limit for post season?

One quandary I face, with freshmen especially, is the consideration of playing time and improvement that can only come from real game time. There have been a couple of freshmen that I probably could have taken onto the roster as a sort of "thirteenth man" (I like a roster of 12), but they would have seen very little playing time.

It doesn't make the pill any easier to swallow, though, telling a freshman he was cut BUT it was in his best interest so he could go out and get his big innings in our local 13-15 rec ball league. They want to be on the big club, they want to wear the uniform, they want to feel they 'made it' -- and some of them may not even care about playing time, at least initially. But I have also found when I've gone ahead and taken a FY player onto the roster, and having told him his playing time would be very limited, that within a few weeks the kid is grumbling and his parent(s) are rumbling under their breath or sometimes even above their breath - "Coach, ya think he could maybe get some more playing time the second half of the season?"

A former HS coach over here once took 19 players on the roster for some reason and six of those kids saw less than 5 innings total all season. Those kids were still of an age where they could have gone and played many innings in the 13-15 rec ball league and had a good time. Instead they languished on the bench for three months. I don't see the point in that.

It's a very difficult process, especially in the very small community I coach in where everyone knows everyone else.

quote:

Remember, Michael Jordan didn't make his 8th grade basketball team because the coach didn't know what he was doing.

Groan....
No, actually Michael Jordan didn't make the varsity team as a sophomore. Jordan found this to be highly motivating, but even he doesn't claim that he "should" have made the team. Various sources list his height that year as 5'9" to 5'11". The HS team chose a 6'8" sophomore instead. There's a pretty good chance that his coach did know what he was doing.

quote by Dad04

quote:

Does the state have a roster limit for post season?

No, it does not. In fact, every year during playoffs my son's h.s. coach brings up about another 20+ players from the freshman and JV teams to the varsity level. This is presumably to give the players a taste of both the varsity level and post-season play, but it may also have a bit of an intimidation factor for the opposing team. (None of the players brought up have ever played an inning; they are just there to watch.)

For the record Micheal Jordan was cut from Wilmington Laneys varsity basketball team as a Soph. By his own admission he was not good enough to make the team. He credits this for motivating him to become the player he was. After getting cut he went to his HS coach and asked him if he could come to school early each morning and work out in the gym before school. He credits his HS coach with teaching him the work ethic and fueling the fire to compete that later helped him become the player he was.

We all reach a point where we have to let go and let our kids earn what they get. Sooner or later if your kid plays long enough its going to happen. The desire to pave the way for the child can create pot holes along the way and make it much tougher on the player. The bottom line is they are the one that is going to have to do it. The players who get something because mom or dad have manipulated the situation are only hurt in the long run.

Help them all you can when they are not at practice or a game. As much as they want to be helped. And then let them go to practice or games and handle their own business. If you dont you are only hurting them even though you might think your helping them.

Our current HC who moved here from Richmond Senior HS had the viewpoint that cutting a player was actually allowing that kid to truly find his God-given talent and gift whether that be track, s****r, tennis, band, etc. OR motivate him enough to work harder and comeback the next year to tryout.

I always liked hearing him say that during the pre-season "Player and Parent Expectation" meeting he held with all prospective players coming out. His handout was 7-8 pages long and he read EVERY word of it!

I am truly going to miss him.

Good advice Coach May. They have to have the desire to go further we cannot force them. That also includes doing the FSFSA, college applications, etc. etc.

With my son, my only question about a scrimmage or a practice is "Did you win the day" Which means did you do out hustle, out hit out defend your rival.

I ran a camp today and gave my usual speech. "If you want to be average there are many examples everyday of how to achieve that goal. Just do what everyone else around you is doing. If you want to be special be willing to do more than everyone else. There is no way you can know how hard anyone outside your group is working. So work as hard as you can and do not limit yourself by those around you. Do not gauge yourself by those around you. Do more than everyone else."

Son how did your work out go today? I worked just as hard as everyone else Dad. Congratulations son, your on your way to being just as good as everyone else.

If your in a hs program and you are working just as hard as everyone else then you are working towards being as good as the rest of your hs team mates. Outwork them. Bury them. Set the bar. Set the standard that they are trying to reach. And if they start closing on you pick it up a notch and bury them all over again.

Pretty tough standard isn't it? Not if you want to be better than everyone else. You may or may not end up better than everyone else. But you will assure yourself of being the best you can possibly can be. Then there will be no regrets. And you will know you are indeed special and not average.

Sorry for the 8th vs 10th mistake. But, please...Jordan didn't go from not being able to make his team to being the high school stud he was in 1 year. Jordan's a generous man and not making the coach feel bad.

Anyway, the point was coaches are no more perfect than anyone else. They make mistakes too, and it's not the end of the world as there are chances the next year to bounce right back....ala Michael Jordan.

Quite honestly, freshman baseball is such a big drop off from select ball that you can make a good argument you regress in HS freshman ball anyway.

Jordan was not a stud in one year. He was a good player his Jr year. And didnt explode on the seen until the summer before his sr year. He was not even player of the year in NC his senior year in hs. Buzz Peterson was his team mate at UNC his freshman year.

His HS coach is a great guy and a tremendous coach. He is very respected in NC hs athletics.

I guess he was a good player as a junior...averaging over 20 points a game. That's quite a change from not making the team as a soph. Also strange that Dean Smith started recruiting him before he ever made his HS varsity team.

Dean Smith is a demigod in North Carolina. No surprise he was recruiting MJ before anyone else gave him a thought.

Smith may well be a demigod. But the reason he started recruiting Jordan in the summer before his Junior year is because he saw Jordan at the exclusive, nationally renowned Five-Star Basketball Camp...which Jordan also attended before he made his HS varsity team. I think most would say you gotta be a "stud" to attend that camp.

You have convinced me. Your right.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Sorry for the 8th vs 10th mistake. But, please...Jordan didn't go from not being able to make his team to being the high school stud he was in 1 year. Jordan's a generous man and not making the coach feel bad.

Anyway, the point was coaches are no more perfect than anyone else. They make mistakes too, and it's not the end of the world as there are chances the next year to bounce right back....ala Michael Jordan.

Quite honestly, freshman baseball is such a big drop off from select ball that you can make a good argument you regress in HS freshman ball anyway.

Jordan wasn't cut from the program. He was cut from varsity. It's such an overblown, exaggerated story. He was a 5'9" soph in a powerhouse program. He grew, worked hard and prospered.

quote:

Originally posted by Coach May:
"If you want to be average there are many examples everyday of how to achieve that goal. Just do what everyone else around you is doing. If you want to be special be willing to do more than everyone else. There is no way you can know how hard anyone outside your group is working. So work as hard as you can and do not limit yourself by those around you. Do not gauge yourself by those around you. Do more than everyone else."

Coach May - that is awesome! This quote will end up in my son's e-mail box. Very well said and great advice!

Grinder:

You've received quite a bit of advice. I personally liked Rob Kremer's. As your son moves on, the stands will get bigger, and your seat will get worse. That is a good thing!

5'4" is small, but quick and fast with good skills solves many coaching problems.

But you want just a little edge? After he makes the frosh team, don't ask, just contribute what you can afford through the athletic director for the frosh coach to buy equipment, a practice mound, or something for the program. Believe me, he will figure out who did it. And c'mon everyone - don't tell me he bought his way onto the team, because he didn't. It is always nice for a coach to have a parent who quietly supports the program. One parent on this site mentioned a very cool idea - He bought a scholarship for the best player who couldn't afford it to go to a skills clinic following the season. That touched my heart. It seems to me you are modeling what your son should do too and supporting his teammates.

Then just revert to "hi coach." Your son will do the rest.

quote:

Originally posted by brute66:
Here is how "Joe", a parent at my son's former high school promoted his boy. Perhaps this can work for you:

1. Become the booster club president.

2. Cozy up to the coach and suggest that you have control over booster club slush funds.

3. Tell the coach privately that a coach's bonus is possible, but it'd sure be nice if your boy was starting catcher.

Voila! Your son, a third string talent on most squads, is proud to be the starting catcher.

Hey...it worked for "Joe"!

lol. I've actually seen that tactic in action! Yes, it really, really works!

The problem is, the "booster" at Bum, Jr.'s h.s. that did that forgot that doesn't work in college. His son is now a walkon bullpen catcher at an obscure J.C.

It is surely hard not to get consumed by politics. Every year, usually in February, my wife would get ticked off at me because I'd be pacing, muttering not-so-niceities about the politics at my son's h.s. and how it would impact Bum, Jr.

Every April, all that was forgotten. It is especially forgotten now that he has migrated into college baseball.

I do have one regret, though. He is actually an outstanding hitter. His h.s. never gave him a legit shot with the bat until 1/2 way through his Jr. season. His first at-bat he sent one off the wall in left center. Second, a double over the CF's head. Third, he hit a HR over the right-center wall.

Then he saw only pitching duties the rest of the year. (Sigh.)

This is a frustrating game. I really think, looking back, though, that it was I that was most consumed with the political angle, not my kid. He just shut up and played ball. We can learn a lot from our kids.

quote:

Originally posted by Tx-Husker:
Smith may well be a demigod. But the reason he started recruiting Jordan in the summer before his Junior year is because he saw Jordan at the exclusive, nationally renowned Five-Star Basketball Camp...which Jordan also attended before he made his HS varsity team. .....

Encarta entry on Michael Jordan

This article says that he attended the camp after his junior year, and that's when he met Dean Smith. So, according to Encarta, he'd already played a season of varsity before being recruited by Smith. It is also a reasonable assumption that he continued to grow during his junior year, and was probably close to full height when he attended the camp.

By the way, perhaps it was different in 1979, but today a coach is breaking NCAA rules if he off-campus recruits a player in the summer before his junior year.

quote:

But you want just a little edge? After he makes the frosh team, don't ask, just contribute what you can afford through the athletic director for the frosh coach to buy equipment, a practice mound, or something for the program. Believe me, he will figure out who did it. And c'mon everyone - don't tell me he bought his way onto the team, because he didn't. It is always nice for a coach to have a parent who quietly supports the program.

Since you said after he made the freshman team, obviously he did not buy his way on to the team. How about that little extra edge to get him into the starting lineup then? Some freshman teams have over 30 kids on their roster so that might be a good way to help him separate from the pack?

brod - I respect your opinion but disagree with you on this one. If you are giving something to get an extra edge that is the wrong reason to give imho.

An aside...

I never considered being on the booster club because I did not want to be accused of improper influence. Our main fundraiser each year was a reverse raffle and I heartily contributed to that like every other parent on the freshman, jv, and varsity teams. That donation was anonymous however. Are booster clubs a good thing? Yes, because they help the team raise money. The issue I have with the booster club is that some who participate expect a quid pro quo (this for that). If your only reason to participate or donate money to a program is to get some type of edge for your kid then that is the wrong reason to participate imho. At the bare minimum, the booster club should limit any face-time they get with the coach to fund-raising issues. Team/competitive issues should never be discussed imho. These conversations are often very subtle. You see the coach at a meeting and you ask what he thinks of the team. He tells you and you say you hope the pitching is improved this year (knowing your son is a pitcher). This can go on and on. Inuendo after inuendo. I know this happens because I see inuendo right here on the hsbbweb all the time. Let the kid earn things on his own merits. I love Coach May's advice in this thread.