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Obviously, when considering schools, a player would check out the program, facility and coaches.  But, how much should a potential incoming player check out the other players on the team?  Say you were an incoming freshmen catcher and the team already had Adley Rutschman on their roster as a freshman.  Does that factor into your decision to commit and/or play at that school – knowing that you will be playing behind him for two years and never seeing the field?  Further, in addition to checking out who is already there, what about checking out those who are already committed to that program who are still in High School.  Say you are a HS senior (Class of 2020) and you are considering accepting an offer to attend Dee One College.  And, you are a catcher.  But, you see on PG that there are four other HS catchers committed to Dee One College – two other 2020’s and a couple of other 2021’s.  Does that factor into your decision to attend that school?  

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Glib answer: get an offer first.

Other answer: you don't think your kid is good enough to compete with other players?

Other anwser: what happens when you're a freshman (college) and coach recruits a HS player (or JUCO) for your position?

Other answer: can you really project who committed and will attend as opposed to being drafted and signed?

The real answer: rake, rake, rake if you're a position player and you will start. If you're a catcher and an all-American is in the class above, you will play 1B, 3B, DH, right field. BUT, YOU WILL PLAY.

 

 

If you are recruited by Dee One college, you can expect the coaching staff to constantly actively recruit Dee One level players so the program can compete at the Dee One level (before you accept, before you arrive and during your entire ((hopefully)) four year stay).  That is the nature of the beast, particularly at Dee One.  I would hope that the player has had enough dialog during the recruiting process to know whether he is viewed as one that will compete for PT or one who is being brought in as BP catcher and emergency depth.  

I can GUARRANTEE you they wont recruit one or two catchers and say "ok, we're good at that position for a few years".

Sure, you will take a look at the roster and see what you are up against but that is a constantly moving target and a player will have to have the mentality of starting over every day when competing to earn or keep playing time.  The only safe way around that is to pick a level where you will clearly stand out.  Most competitive ball players don't want that, IMO.

Last edited by cabbagedad

The real answer: rake, rake, rake if you're a position player and you will start. If you're a catcher and an all-American is in the class above, you will play 1B, 3B, DH, right field. BUT, YOU WILL PLAY.

This is the gold standard by Goosegg........nothing but the truth!  As Brad Hamilton (Fast Times at Ridgemont High) would say......“Learn it. Know it. Live it.”    HC saw something in recruiting him, told him If you hit we will find a position for you every game.  HC and son lived up to this promise.

You deal with the roster at hand. 3 years ago Adley Rutschman was just a kid with a good bat who had never been to a PG event. He hit .230 as a freshman. You can't predict these things. Easier to ask "where do you see me playing in the field" and "how many other guys are you carrying/bringing in at my position". You can't go in thinking that you're going to get cut. But if a school already has another committed catcher who is a PG All American you're probably better served looking elsewhere. 

I've never had a problem with early commits. But I don't think it's wise to commit to a program when you have no clue what the roster or coaching staff is going to look like in 3-5 years. Ideally you wait until after you are finished with the sophomore school year but everybody has their reasons. A coach of a school was fired and a new staff came in. I was talking to one of the new assistants at a tournament and asked what he thought of a sophomore committed to his new school. He said the kid hadn't reached out in the two months he'd been on board. If they didn't like what they saw he wouldn't be receiving an NLI, no notice. 

Just gauge the room when you have offers and ask the tough questions. Expect there to be 2-5 combined committed/rostered catchers at any given time. 

The real answer: rake, rake, rake if you're a position player and you will start. If you're a catcher and an all-American is in the class above, you will play 1B, 3B, DH, right field. BUT, YOU WILL PLAY.

A friend/former teammate’s son (a top ranked catcher) committed to one of the top programs in the country. They recruited two other top ranked catchers that year. The coach switched an outfielder with great hands and a big arm to catcher. The following year he recruited another top catcher. 

They all started by soph year (c, 1b, 3b, rf, lf, dh) because they could hit. They were all drafted.

The issue my friend’s son had was he played nowhere but catcher (facing the field) until he got to college ball. It was an adjustment to learn to play first and third. 

I asked my son his perspective of the roster during fall ball freshman year. His view was there were six to eight studs at the front of the roster. There were eight walk ons (no scholarship) hoping it works out. He felt there were about twenty players plus the walk ons fighting for about ten spots with playing time.

Those who win the battle will be the most physically prepared and mentally tough players. 

Relative to the level of competition everyone on the roster is capable of starting. Everyone was a high school star. But for a lot of players college will be the first time it won’t be easy. It’s when you find out who the mentally tough kids are. They don’t make excuses. They don’t whine and compare themselves to teammates. They stay physically and mentally prepared for the one moment that might make a difference so they get a second opportunity. Then they build on their opportunities.

If a JuCo player arrives next year and the player is back battling for playing time again the process starts all over. 

Another friend/former teammate’s son (a shortstop) headed for the same top ranked program as the catcher. The all conference shortstop came back for his senior year. The kid played first freshman year because he could rake. He moved to short soph year.

This scenario applies no matter what level of college ball a player selects to play. Thirty five (or more in D3) choose the program because they believe they can get on the field. 

There aren’t any angles or secret sauces. It’s all about talent, hard work, mental toughness and a little bit of luck. 

Last edited by RJM

Agree with Goosegg's answer: rakers play.

I still checked rosters to see how many kids would be graduating and what positions they played.  This made sense to me to do but my kids are Div. 3 guys, and there's less roster churn at that level.

Div. 1: I think every kid who goes that route should be confident enough to expect to start right away, and smart enough to know that the pipeline behind him won't stop.

If you look at the player profiles on a college roster they all look about the same in terms of high school accomplishments. Relative to the level you choose everyone is good. Everyone has the talent to be there. If a player reads profiles and gets intimidated maybe the next level isn’t for him. 

This summer I witnessed 2 players committed to the same Dee One school play each other at a tourney, and the 2 got into a very vocal squabble on the field that continued off the field with the parents getting involved. As we all know here, baseball is a small world. So as you can guess, both of those kids received calls from Dee One by day's end. 

Last edited by Zia2021
RJM posted:

If you look at the player profiles on a college roster they all look about the same in terms of high school accomplishments. Relative to the level you choose everyone is good. Everyone has the talent to be there. If a player reads profiles and gets intimidated maybe the next level isn’t for him. 

That means, Power 5's aren't the same as AAC or Conf USA, etc...Just be sure your fishing in the right pond. 

I would be less concerned about who the players were and more concerned about how many players there were.  That can be indicative how the program is run....schools with 15+ commits are running as much talent as they can find through the system and then let it sort itself out over summer/fall/winter via draft/cuts/redshirts....others will bring in around 10 with the hope's of developing their recruits.

 Both approaches are fine...just understand what you're getting in to.

 

 

If you are asking about "catchers" specifically then expect most D1 to carry 3-4 catchers on a roster.  It is a tough position with high potential for injury.  My son's team one year went through the injury bug and 4th string ended up starting mid year.

Back to the original question.....I would also add to look at the roster for the past 3-4 years and see the transfers in and out.  A high turnover from year to year will give a good indication of how the coaching staff commits to their players.

D1 baseball is very competitive.  The best players will play at all times simply because a coach feeds his family based on winning.

Francis, I did much of what you ask back in the day - searched rosters, looked at attrition, etc., trying to devine the TRUTH.

Looking back, I realize it was an exercise for ME - so I could rest easy that I had lifted every stone, tried to unlock every secret - all to aid my son's journey.

I learned that a coaching change makes all assumptions invalid; I learned that coaching changes were a regular part of the landscape; I learned that the best, hottest RCs/HCs were looking to climb to the top of their profession and often did. 

Even though that type of research gave unreliable results, there was one approach which did give some good data: S would call former players and simply ask about the experience. Now, the info each gave about baseball was subject to a coaching change, BUT the info each gave about the SCHOOL was pretty valid (e.g., living conditions, academics, social life, treatment of athletes, etc.). I would find parents of players and ask questions in my area of interest (post college employment, summer activities, academics, etc.)

So much of what goes on in recruiting is a blur; you really dont know what nugget of info becomes a critical piece of the puzzle. I'd suggest asking parents and players how their experience went; recognize, of course, that a kid who was an all-American may well view his experience differently from a kid who never played much.

greatgame posted:

There was an all state ss from my area. Went to NS state and played 3rd his freshman year. Played catcher next two years and was drafted as a catcher. Still playing in the miners as a catcher. You have to prove yourself everyday.

He just got re-promoted to his MLB team yesterday as their starter went down with another injury.  Another great opportunity for this young man.

"Relative to the level of competition everyone on the roster is capable of starting. Everyone was a high school star. But for a lot of players college will be the first time it won’t be easy. It’s when you find out who the mentally tough kids are. They don’t make excuses. They don’t whine and compare themselves to teammates. They stay physically and mentally prepared for the one moment that might make a difference so they get a second opportunity. Then they build on their opportunities."   per RJM...

This is one of several examples of why this site is so valuable, all for free, just good people wanting to help other good people.  I think we all knew this point during their son's (or personal) journey but to explain it simple and straightforward, well done! 

Francis, you are spinning your wheels, trying so hard to control a process that YOU can’t control. The fate of of your son will be determined by his ability to play the game (not measurables), the quality of the coaching he receives (especially travel ball), how much he improves, how he performs on the bigger stages, and the connections that his coaches and private instructors can use to your son’s benefit. The best thing you can do is get him with the right people and get out of the way. 

adbono posted:

Francis, you are spinning your wheels, trying so hard to control a process that YOU can’t control. The fate of of your son will be determined by his ability to play the game (not measurables), the quality of the coaching he receives (especially travel ball), how much he improves, how he performs on the bigger stages, and the connections that his coaches and private instructors can use to your son’s benefit. The best thing you can do is get him with the right people and get out of the way. 

To be fair, it was a reasonable question - Are/were you guys checking out the rosters when searching for schools? - 

Has nothing to do with coaches, connections, or talent. How much did the roster influence your son's decision on the school? I know plenty of guys on their second school who probably should have given the roster a better look before they committed. 

PABaseball posted:
adbono posted:

Francis, you are spinning your wheels, trying so hard to control a process that YOU can’t control. The fate of of your son will be determined by his ability to play the game (not measurables), the quality of the coaching he receives (especially travel ball), how much he improves, how he performs on the bigger stages, and the connections that his coaches and private instructors can use to your son’s benefit. The best thing you can do is get him with the right people and get out of the way. 

To be fair, it was a reasonable question - Are/were you guys checking out the rosters when searching for schools? - 

Has nothing to do with coaches, connections, or talent. How much did the roster influence your son's decision on the school? I know plenty of guys on their second school who probably should have given the roster a better look before they committed. 

Did they not give a better look or did they  put on the rose colored glasses and choose their dream school or conference that liked them over the program that showed love? 

I believe an honest perspective of “can I compete at this level” is more important then who is on the roster. If a position player hits he’s going to play somewhere.

Last edited by RJM

How do you know your catcher son is going to be a catcher for Dee One College?  I've had several players go on to play collegiate ball and the one constant is that there isn't a set rule that they play where they were recruited.  

I think that some things you might want to look at is the number of freshmen who sign NLIs, play that 1st year and then are on the roster a 2nd year.  There is a huge turnover at many universities and at all levels.  

One other constant is that the coaching staff may like your son but they are always looking to upgrade.  If that opportunity comes along, they won't remember your son's first name.  

to answer the OP, yes according to your position.  My son is LHP so very specific.  he will get a chance to play the field if he works really hard at it and can hit.  We did look at how many LHP's were there and how many were being recruited.  But the ultimate question is how do you think you rank in the picture.  Can you compete for a spot?  After all the research, it really comes down to how he does this fall and spring whether he gets playing time.  As I remind him daily, you have to work harder than you ever have because you are in a new setting.  You wanted to be SEC player, now you are an SEC team member.  Up to you if you become an SEC player.

RJM posted:
PABaseball posted:
adbono posted:

Francis, you are spinning your wheels, trying so hard to control a process that YOU can’t control. The fate of of your son will be determined by his ability to play the game (not measurables), the quality of the coaching he receives (especially travel ball), how much he improves, how he performs on the bigger stages, and the connections that his coaches and private instructors can use to your son’s benefit. The best thing you can do is get him with the right people and get out of the way. 

To be fair, it was a reasonable question - Are/were you guys checking out the rosters when searching for schools? - 

Has nothing to do with coaches, connections, or talent. How much did the roster influence your son's decision on the school? I know plenty of guys on their second school who probably should have given the roster a better look before they committed. 

Did they not give a better look or did they  put on the rose colored glasses and choose their dream school or conference that liked them over the program that showed love? 

I believe an honest perspective of “can I compete at this level” is more important then who is on the roster. If a position player hits he’s going to play somewhere.

Both. Mostly rose colored glasses, but also some guys who were more than capable, but did not get the time they could have if the roster looked a bit different. I know a catcher who got caught in a log jam at a P5 school. Left after a year and went Juco route. Back to a school in the same conference where he started after a JC year. He would go onto to be the starting catcher in his remaining years there and play in a super. He was definitely a fit at both schools, just a lot of depth. 

To Answer the OP: My son and I did look at the rosters. We noticed one of the "rival" schools at the conference where he would land had several at his position graduate the year before he would start It appeared to be an attractive option initially.   In rosters we looked at Fielding % , SB,and BA primarily. He would be looking at some HA D1 where the rosters were smaller. At Big State U (which also offered) the rosters were bigger (Sort of Francis' reference Schools) and they were targeting son for a different position (CF). We did look at their roster and noticed a number of "redshirts." Academics (and ability to contribute as a freshman} were important.

Lastly,  son did look at rosters (were returnees "all-league",retention on team, etc).  I looked at stats more than he did (guess that's why I teach it ). What was more important was watching the teams play that are recruiting son. Can he compete at that level, style of play, etc?  As other posters mentioned,  the coaches will put you where they seem fit. A hitter will find a spot. Son "unseated" a 3 yr starter at a position, which ended up good for both. Senior moved to OF and had his best season and made all conference. Regardless of position (or # recruited in position) be ready to compete and work hard from day 1.

This thread speaks to me about one of the problems with travel ball:  people say that you should choose a team where you will get significant playing time in travel ball.  However if you are handed everything up until you reach a college campus, it can be a mental & emotional shock if for the first time in their life they have to battle for a spot & battle for playing time.

I'd rather see kids play up a little higher than their current level in travel ball, be the 9th-14th best player on a very good travel team and have to fight for playing time.   It might not be easy only getting 4-5 at bats in 4 games but the lessons learned will pay off when so much more is on the line ( and will make the premise of this thread irrelevent)

Once past the couple of players who may/will sign for big money out of high school top quality travel teams are rostered with relatively equal talent headed for D1 ball.

One of my son’s high school teammates played for a travel team where most of the kids were relatively equal D3 prospects that ended up in quality D3 programs.

Once at the prospect level everyone gets on the field a reasonable amount. Players get challenged playing against equal talent. 

From 13u to 16u (when the kids were fifteen) I ran a travel team I could have pulled the lineup out of a hat. The best player depended on who was hot that day. 

Last edited by RJM

There are so many travel teams these days.  It is out of control.  Things have changed/are changing.   I'm seeing lots of teams in the 16U-17U age range that have 2-4 D1 commits.  Being a top player on those teams, being the 3 hole hitter all summer, no matter if you are hot or not, can be detrimental to development....

Yes there are still the super teams like Team Elite Prime where you pretty much have to be a Power 5 commit to be considered for the roster, but outside of the top 20-50 teams the top talent gets spread out a lot.

You take that 3 hole hitting D1 commit who is by far the best player on his travel team & put him on a roster where he has to scratch & fight for playing time, he is going to come out of the experience much more likely to be a bulldog and not a cocky overconfident man child.   

Just my 2 cents... I'm seeing a lot of kids who commit to D1 having been handed things their whole life,  never get an at bat their freshman year and have very few developed coping mechanisms to deal with their situation.

OP:  don't worry about it.  From the moment you set foot on campus the coaches are going to try to recruit someone better to take your spot.  Control the things you can control, such as your preparation, work ethic, attention to detail, focus, and of course academics.

I believe every player should be looking at every roster that comes with an offer.   This is part of doing your due diligence whether it is D1,  D3 or whatever.   Again, the player has to understand the coach is trying to recruit the best player he can get every year.   What matters most is determining what roster information is useful to you for your specific situation, and asking the coach questions based off that information.   For example:  my (pitcher) son knew he wanted to be an engineer.   There  was one P5 school interested/offered him but there was no athletic money (only academic) and no engineers on that P5 roster....coincidence?  Not really.   That told us everything we needed to know.  Contrast that with some of the Ivy, Patriot, and D3 schools that had multiple engineering majors on their rosters.   So, the question to the coach is how do you handle demanding majors like engineering?   Answer: "the student athlete is assigned a baseball upper classmen engineering mentor.  We play less games, less practice and our weekday travel schedule is not as demanding.  We are flexible with lab days as long as you get your workout and pitching work done." 

This is the roster information we were (specifically) looking for before making a final decision.   It is just a matter of figuring out what is most important to you then asking questions for your requirements with the understanding the coach is trying to recruit your replacement next year.

Last edited by fenwaysouth

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