Puma Pre Season All American

Not to put any of these players down but....

Unfortunately... the Puma All-american award is more about how much money you've spent with Baseball factory than talent...

The local kids in my area who have been named to this list, havent' even been full-time starters on their varsity team, which means there are, probably, at least 9 kids at their OWN school better than they are....

Thanks SDBB for being diplomatic about that, I was having a hard time thinking of a pc response.

I have no dog in the hunt or on the list. The list has at least one real player from Central FL. All-Everything catcher who can actually play. There is also a 2008 player committed to FSU. Not unheard of to skip Sr. year but I wonder if Coach Shoupe at FSU is aware of that.......

The list is of dubious origins to say the very least.

PRE-SEASON ALL-AMERICA FACTS

Pre-season All-Americans actually showcase and compete against each other, it is the only “non paper” All-American honor.

Pre-season All-Americans are scouted and selected by Baseball Factory scouts and/or Team One Baseball scouts, along with certain scouts from Major League organizations.

The format of the 2007 Pre-Season All-America Tournament will feature approximately 200 high school players in a 12 team wood bat tournament. Teams will be broken up by region to compete for the All-America Tournament championship. Additionally, players will rotate amongst stations that include pro-style workouts, video and instruction.

It looks like invites also went out to some of the folks who had attended Team One events as well.

It looked like it used to pull some of the top players in the past when Baseball Factory and Team One used to have their own events, but it has really fallen off when Baseball Factory and Team One combined and the recruiting periods changed and it continues to be held during the quite period.

There are only about a dozen players committed to a 4 year school and it looks like maybe three are ranked in the top 500 of PGCrosschecker's player rankings, so it is not really a Pro Scouting event either.

Isn't it possible that there are some good ballplayers out there that don't have the PG mark of approval? My son has a D-1 offer and a lot of interest from a couple of very good D-3 schools. We're still searching for the best possible offer. Quite frankly the D-1 offer he has is from a school that will require a lot more money than I am capable of putting out. Very select school. He has never been to PG because when it came around, didn't have the extra money. On the other hand, his position at school is the only position to consistently produce D-1 players every year he has been there and acouple before he got there. So he has paid his dues. This should be his year. We never did an event with either of these companies till this tryout. They recognized him and invited him. He was thrilled at being asked to attend and I was able to make it happen for him this time. He may not be a blue chip player who is going to be waiting by the phone in June, but he is my son and I'm very proud of him. Both on and off the field. Everyone can think of players who nobody counted on or noone thought could play the game. That's what it is all about. Kids who never quit, who never listened to what people said who didn't believe. Sorry if I offended anyone, as that is not my intent. Just 2 cents from someone who is tired of hearing about "blue chip players" or PG ranked players. The college rosters are full of players who weren't ranked. I hope all the boys going to the All-American have a great time and a safe trip.

At least one player from that team did not even make first team all conference last year. Solid player? Yes, but not all-american material.

My son recieved a letter from the baseball factory saying he had been selected as a Pre Season All American by the Baseball Factory and Team One. He then was sent a package in the mail saying that this has earned him the right to come and participate in the event earlier mentioned. It was very very expensive and very far away for us. So we decided not to attend. Im not sure how many other kids were named Pre Season All Americans that decided to not attend as well. I do not know the other players listed so I can not speak of their ability. My son was invited because one week end his showcase team was off and they had a Puma Tryout near us. It was a pro style tryout and was ran very well. Like alot of lists Im sure there are some kids on it that are not the best players. And Im sure there are some very talented players in it as well.

There is a kid on there that won't even start for his team this year as a Senior. Puleeeezeeee.

no-e2,

Congrats and good luck to your son.

quote:

Originally posted by KellerDad:
There is a kid on there that won't even start for his team this year as a Senior. Puleeeezeeee.

That is unfortunate; well we have invitations for the last three years. In the past they used to include a "certificate" of being an All-American, this year they did not. Bummer!

We have friends that excelled at the first event in AZ and got write-ups for their performance, but could not even get a sniff for a D1 school. That was when they actually had D1 schools attend and had many high visibility players attend.

My son also was invited to the PUMA Pre-Season All-American Showcase. He attended the tryouts here in Tampa. Arizona is just a long way to go for a short weekend,so we decided not to attend.There'sabout 60 kids at the tryout, but i dont know how many got invitations?? The rating he received from Baseball Factory is pretty consistant with his Perfect Game rating.

Let me tell you about Baseball Factory. It was started by a guy from my high school in Columbia, MD. He graduated a couple years behind me and went on to play ball at U. of Penn. He is a good guy, and a very good business man. Asked me to get involved in his business when he first started it up over 13 years ago. I told him I felt like all recruiting services were businesses that preyed upon parent's emotions, and that I couldn't look myself in the mirror doing that to people. They are a business, people are informed more than they ever have been these days, so I doubt anybody goes into these things blindly. They do a lot of community service work here in the Baltimore area, if that means anything...

Our experience has also been that it is almost exclusively tied to participation with baseball factory, or their affiliates. We've had a number of kids from our summer program who've been invited to try out, and none were selected except for one kid who'd played for the local affiliate of BBfactory. We've seen players selected in the past who weren't nearly the talent as some who were passed over.

We were warned away from it by the parent of a terrific shortstop at our high school, who paid the money and then was disappointed at the hype, although he ended up at a Pac10 D1. His family could not afford it, but put up the money to do what they thought was best for their son. However, I sense a well-cultivated air of superiority in the many posters who turn up their noses at the Puma All-America list. Yes, it was an attempt by some parents to "buy" their way into some recruiting advantage, but not every kid on that list should therefore be condemned as "unworthy," nor can every parent be put down for their lack of baseball knowledge. Let's use a gentler hand in our critique and help others learn.

brod,

If you search the archives, this topic is brought up every year around this time. After commenting on it for 3-4 years, there are only so many ways to be "gentle" about it. It has nothing to do with an air of superiority.

quote:

Originally posted by brod:
We were warned away from it by the parent of a terrific shortstop at our high school, who paid the money and then was disappointed at the hype, although he ended up at a Pac10 D1. His family could not afford it, but put up the money to do what they thought was best for their son. However, I sense a well-cultivated air of superiority in the many posters who turn up their noses at the Puma All-America list. Yes, it was an attempt by some parents to "buy" their way into some recruiting advantage, but not every kid on that list should therefore be condemned as "unworthy," nor can every parent be put down for their lack of baseball knowledge. Let's use a gentler hand in our critique and help others learn.

Brod, Did your shortstop get his Pac 10 ride due to attending the Puma All American or did he already have it secured?

The Baseball Factory is heavy into marketing their recruiting program and their tournament teams, they list players on their web site who have commitments to schools, but they may have attended a Team One event and had to attend a marketing presentation on Baseball Factory's college placement program, but to allude that Baseball Factory had anything to do with them getting their exposure to is an overstatement.

Team One used to be one of the key showcases that you would want to attend, but that has lost their luster since being taken over by Baseball Factory, in fact, since they had been taken over, they actually had taken off all their player performance comments to their past showcases and now they have the player call one of their representatives to receive their feedback, as well as, another marketing pitch from their representative for their expensive recruiting program and/or tournament team.

Team One used to have ratings from their showcases of what they thought the player’s professional or collegiate possibilities were, and they no longer do that.

Let see, you pay perfect Game for the right to be listed in their top players list. You pay BBF to be listed in PUMA.

Is there any honest scouting left?
Why did Baseball America end it alliance with PG and go to BBF?

This is all about getting your name on list, so a coach can speak with you. The ranking in PG do not make sense either... If I go to an event in CA and then a event in MA they rank you differently it all about the money. Why did Blaine Clemens leave BBF to go to PG, did he not do the same thing at both companies. Is he better at his job at PG?

Just some thoughts if you can play you will be found and it really does not matter what services you’re a part of get yourself in front of a Coaches that you want to play for if they like what they see they will talk to you but you have to market yourself..

I have a funny feeling that all the nasty comments are from angry players parents that missed the tryouts or were not invited. Please the next time Puma or Team One has a tryout in your area, take your superstar there and see for yourself how professional and well organized the staff is.

Then just maybe, if your son gets selected because at the Irvine tryout we seen very talented players, you will change your tune. My son has played P.G,Area Code camps, ect. I have seen a lot of great kids within the last two years and the All American will be no different. All I know is we will have a good time on Jan 13th & 14th playing Baseball at Kino in beautiful Arizona.

Scatpac - I am sure that it is great to have your son named to the Under Armour Pre-Season All American tournament, but there are guys who have not played on a Varsity Team as yet named to the event.

As for angry parents - for what it is worth advice or options here are free and that is what they may be worth, but you may do some research but many of the folks who are on here have an extensive experience from having their players gone through HS and are playing in college.

A little pointer check to see how many people that were listed as 2006 All Americans and see who many are playing college baseball now. That will tell you real quick what the talent level is like.

Congratulations to all the kids named to the Puma Pre Season All American team. My son was selected as a Puma Pre Season All American but we could not afford to pay that amount of money to go and play in the event. I hope everyone that goes has a great time.

quote:

Scatpac - I am sure that it is great to have your son named to the Under Armour Pre-Season All American tournament, but there are guys who have not played on a Varsity Team as yet named to the event.

Hr04, Are you saying that only if your Varsity your a Talented
Ball Player.
I disagree!
Son Could of Started Varsity as a Freshman.
Played Freshman ball.
Son could of started Varsity his sophmore year played JV.
Son Started his Junior year, Named All League 1st Team.

Talent is talent no matter what team they play on.
Remember there looking at player's and Projecting potential.

Last Year son had a barnstorming tour that started Christmas break of 05.
Went to Australia with Bob William's and the Goodwill Series.
Picked him up at the airport.
24 hour's later were on a red eye to Ft.Myer's for the
PG World Showcase 06.
The following week were in Tuscan for the Puma All American Tournament.

Did any of this activitie Help. Let's see.

Son was a Drafted player in 06.
Now is a Freshman College Player at a Top 25 Mid Major D1 on the West Coast.

Showcases are tool's to be used in promoting your Talent period. Use them wisely.

I think the rap on BBF is the Fact that they cost to much Money??

I think there staff are professional and they put on a great tournament.

Also feel that PG is second to none as the premier Scouting organization.

You use these event's to Promote your Talent.
And to have as many's eye's as possible view that Talent.
They use you, You use them. It's a Business arrangement?
My 2cent's.
EH

I've just been a READER of this forum for some time. And enjoy the information and banter. I decided to comment on this perspective, as I myself have seen the PUMA list the last few years and many CLAIMS of players using PUMA All-American as resume material and formed an opinion on what that statement indicated to me.

I agree, Talent is talent and yes subjective. But I believe what's people have at issue here, is the term ALL-AMERICAN. That implies these players are the BEST HS players in America. Similar to how College All-American teams are rated.

Everyone has an opinion on talent and it is subjective. But most the lists/teams "claiming" "All-American" status I've seen, the players could reasonably be argued as, if not the top, then very close to it in their selected postions. So the TERM implies being the BEST in the country. BBF website itself claims...

quote:

it is the only “non paper” All-American honor.

What exactly does that mean? non paper? But again that statement implies to me this is the list of the Best in America, at least in BBFs opinion.

In the few years that I've been aware of the PUMA list, there has always been at least one or more kids that I personally have seen play ball in my area and so I know myself how that player compares to the local talent. (which is my own opinion) But then you also have the opinions of the evaluators of All-league selections or all-conference selections, or even the players own Head coach. If the player is not on any of the local lists, what then gives credence he should be on a national list? Or if the player is only a part time player on his own HS team (and I've seen more than a couple players make this list fit that description) would that incline you to believe that the players own coach doesn't think he is one of the best players on his own team? (a group of maybe 20 players) And if not on his own team, then how can he possibly be selected to be one of the BEST at the national level, a group of hundreds of thousands?

The list then loses Credibility if there are VALID cases where the talent can be obviouly questioned as NOT being the TOP Players in a players own hometown, or even own team, let alone All of America. Without credibility, then the accomplishments of the entire rest of the players on the list are not considered or trusted to be VALID. Whether they deserve to be or not, others will not give much credence to the accomplishment. Its my opinion BBF does a dis-service to the players unless this list TRULY contains the TOP players, which at least from my own personal experience and data doesn't indicate that's the case.

The list should be published as the best BBF scouted team,(willing to pay the entry fee) Not ALL-AMERICAN. Then I doubt there would be any outcry. But then I also doubt that BBF could charge the amount they do for the award/event.

It will be interesting to see how Baseball America's Top prospect lists now compare since BBF is now their scouting service. I didn't always agree completely with PGs lists, but you knew they had canvassed a lot of players in the US and if the player was a top 100 prospect he was indeed a very good player and one of the best around, and the MLB draft proved "most" of it out. I wonder what percentage of PUMA All-American players in the past have been drafted by MLB and what rounds. That might be a good piece of data to validate the integrity of this list.

Congrats to everyone on this list.

I am not a BBF fan, and do not know a soul on the list, nor do I have a son who would be eligible.

Lists are lists. Professional scouts and college recruiters know which ones to look at, talk to each other and GO SEE THE PLAYER PLAY.

Heck my 04 was never on any list in HS, not all conference.. ever, no 2nd team, no honorable mention, but he holds a couple records for his college, and did get 2nd team all conference his soph yr.

Who cares? Momma!! HAHAHAHA, actually I don't. It was nice, but had he not been recognized, he, we, and his teammates knew. We ain't talking about a kid who is going to be drafted, we are talking about a kid who gets it done and loves the game.

Keep reading this board, you'll figure out which showcases you should attend, IF ANY. I will endorse PG, even tho neither of my boys went (02 was invited) Both went to camps of their college choices as well as Impact, but that is more if you are in NC, SC, VA, GA area. I am sure there are other good local showcases for good players in different areas.

Again, congrats to those named. I wish them the best, but I have to agree, All American is not the right name for this.

I have no knock on any kid to make this list. My beef is with the main promotor of the list and the implications of the TERM All-American, and what's the true purpose behind that implication.

Since I have the afternoon off... I became curious.. so I looked up whatever data I could find and found this - the 60 yd dash times.... from 2006

http://teamonebaseball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=503354

There are 190 players, 18 of which had a 60 yard time of 8 seconds or longer.

I then went to Baseball America Draft database and did a search on the names of the top 50 times.... (figuring the fastest players may be rated higher)

I found 4 of those top 50 had been drafted in 2006. The highest, an 18 rounder #551, a 34 rounder, 44th rounder and a 46th rounder. And I congratulate those players.

But compare this to the AFLAC All-American game, where in 2004 16 players were drafted in the top 5 rounds, and 33 out of 40 players were drafted.

2004 Class: Draft Picks
Player Round Draft Pick Team
Justin Upton 1 1 Arizona Diamondbacks
Cameron Maybin 1 10 Detroit Tigers
Andrew McCutchen 1 11 Pittsburgh Pirates
Chris Volstad 1 16 Florida Marlins
C.J. Henry 1 17 New York Yankees
John Drennen 1 33 Cleveland Indians
Ryan Tucker 1 34 Florida Marlins
Beau Jones 1 41 Atlanta Braves
Jonathan Egan 2 57 Boston Red Sox
PJ Phillips 2 71 Los Angeles Angels
Ralphie Henriquez 2 72 Houston Astros
Jeff Lyman 2 77 Atlanta Braves
Sean O'Sullivan 3 103 Los Angeles Angels
Jeremy Hellickson 4 118 Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Shane Funk 4 129 Texas Rangers
Ryan DeLaughter 5 144 Washington Nationals
Austin Jackson 8 259 New York Yankees
Steve Johnson 13 406 Los Angeles Angels
Chris Dominguez 17 519 Texas Rangers
Bradley Clark 19 564 Washington Nationals
Ike Davis 19 568 Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Jordan Danks 19 575 Chicago White Sox
Miers Quigley 19 590 St. Louis Cardinals
Ryan Mitchell 20 614 Houston Astros
Justin Bristow 22 652 Kansas City Royals
Preston Paramore 22 659 New York Mets
David Di Natale 22 661 Pittsburgh Pirates
Iain Sebastian 29 871 Pittsburgh Pirates
Zach Putnam 38 1140 Detroit Tigers
Nick Romero 40 1191 Kansas City Royals
Brett Wallace 42 1253 Toronto Blue Jays
Diallo Fon 49 1474 New York Yankees
Buster Posey 50 1496 Los Angeles Angels


You tell me which list of players have more credibility.

I just had an epiphany...
...if a list, an "All American" team, put out by whatever scouting organization...
...helps a player get a chance to play at the next level (college ball, "somewhere")...
...and if the parents willingly shelled out $$$ to said organization...
...for the express purpose of said recognition...
...then who are we to be critical???

In short, if such a list helps a player and parents achieve a dream, then THEY are the sole people who should have the say about the VALUE of the experience.

JT,

Also think about it this way.
If you have talent, The more eye's that see that talent the better.

Baseball/ Baseball Job's ( Scouting, Crosschecking, Coaching )
Is a Fluid business.
Meaning people change Job's in Baseball all the Time.
And they take there info and contact's with them.
Just food for thought.

Also if the name ALL AMERICAN bother you.

Then we should change the name of the WORLD SERIES??
EH

I have been reluctant to get involved in this again after my earlier post, but I think it can be said that maybe all these services leave alittle to be desired. It is a business. None of them, even the all knowing PG are perfect. If I remember correctly, PG isn't cheap. Let me say up front,I don't have anything against PG. They do a good job, just like the rest do a good job. I think that some of the players that are promoted, could be promoted by my 13 year old daughter. Some of these players being promoted are like promoting the obvious. Some of the players listed on PG I would question the ranking because my son either played with them or against them in one of the top programs in the SE. A couple of PG 8's or 7's and atleast one 9. We saw them on a regular basis and know them well. That having been said some of these stats that they posted for PG would have been a bad day for my son. So all the PG supporters, don't come out looking for blood. I already said that PG does a good job just like the rest of the services. And for what it's worth the post about changing the name to World Series or something else is a pretty good idea. Then maybe everyone wouldn't get their BVD's all wadded up. I wish all the players, whether they are PG, BBF, Team One or Billy Bob's Baseball Booster and Emporium players, Good Luck and I hope each one of them get to follow their dream as far as they can.

quote:

None of them, even the all knowing PG are perfect.

I don't want to be involved in this debate, but that is a low blow. I do agree with the above statement, but the reason for stating it is very bothersome. No, just like everything else, they're not all the same.

We will stand behind any list we put out. For the past several years our list has been the list that Baseball America has released. Promoting the obvious is only obvious after someone made it obvious. Someone questioning means nothing until we know what's being questioned. The rest is all BS!

We have nothing against anyone that is being promoted, but how did we get involved in this thread? These things always make me curious as to the motives involved.

The record stands based on the results. We have selected every single Aflac ALL AMERICAN since the beginning. Please check the results, it's always during the off season that these things are brought up. Each year this topic becomes silent in late June after the draft. Do the research and/or speak up at the right time. Prove your point!

I'm not sure I have a point other than maybe there is no perfect way to scout, recruit or project baseball players. But that is just my opinion, and that could be wrong. How you got involved in the thread was folks were talking about scouting services. Like I said PG does a good job. I have had one experience with BBF and it was good. I have had two experiences with the Blue Grey folks. One was good and one was not so good. This will probably be my last post.

Congratulations to the players that have been named.

I'll add my two cents, and I will also say upfront that my Son has attended event in the past.

1- When he was invited it was straight forward to us that it was based on players that had attended a Team One or Baseball Factory event where they had been evaluated. With their new association with Baseball America I don't know if the criteria has know changed.

2- It was a great trip to a beautiful part of the country. We had no other expectations for the event, besides palying ball with some good players.

3- Im my opinion the coaching/teaching at BBF and Teamone events is second to none. The professionalism of the staff and their workouts that we have attended were always well run.

4- Feedback on strength and weaknesses always seemed to be straight not sugar coated. Of course they may want you to attend other events...which you will pay for...realize it is a business.

5- Event in January was more for enjoyment than "recruiting" due to time frame. Overall talent was fairly strong. IMHO many seniors bypass since they have made their college commitment.

6- This is not a BBF vs. PG but with either or any evaluation for talent they need to see you.

7- BBF may have a knock off having some of the programs being too expensive.

8- I've had friends attend PG events that they felt were not worthwhile for the experience.

I think in both cases you need to understand the purpose of the event and what you can expect out of it.

I've had friends complain that they attended a PG underclassman tournments and complain that there were no "scouts" at their games. I'm not an expert of PG events but I believe that the tourneys are not there as a showcase nor are there expectations that in a 60 team event will there be exposure on field 10. Now obviously at the FAll WWBA thats a different story as well as PG's showcases. PG has a tremendous reputation and based on history sees a lot of the top players and does a great job.

I think that Teamone with their Regional Showcases East, South, West etc. also does a fine job with their evaluating of players and exposure to colleges.

Any company is a business and they hope to provide a valuable service. Rankings can be nice and assist you in your college placement and exposure gives you more opportunities. Just like awards can be nice.

My Son did not attend a PG showcase (but I wish he had in hindsight) but did attend the 18u WWBA. This was the first time they had seen him. We did receive a call from PG after the event asking him to attend the World(?) showcase because they liked what they saw but wanted to see him again to be able to rank him appropriately. It was nice to be invited but we declined due to timing he had already signed (and money). I do not think that PG called just to get the $400.00 or so dollars from us but to evaluate. We also turned down the Puma his SR year for the same reasons.

I digress...sorry

My point...if I had one was I typed this so I could avoid cleaning the house prior to Xmas eve

That there are probably +/-'s to Teamone and BBF. That I feel that there are good players that are recognized at the event and everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is just that your opinion and others are entitled to theirs.

CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL WHO WERE NOMINATED...heres hoping that it just one more step in your obtaining your goals.

My son was also selected to go to Arizona and totally understand who will not be there and what this all really means.I agree with this being hype and not really that important in the overall scheme of things. We are going because it is baseball and he will get another experience competing. Not everyone goes on to play D1 or gets drafted so if this is something he can look back on as a great experience with his friends then I am all for it
I am from the area with the 08'kid that was mentioned as committed to FSU- it is a verbal commitment and he can't sign until next November.

I used to read every list.
All league - All Conference - All-American - Top this and Top that. Like so many other parents out there - I would read the lists - and then question. How did this one make it and that one not make it?

In many cases - I questioned the lists - not because my sons were involved in any way - but because I had seen so many of the players play. I saw guys make All-This and All-That and not even play 30% of the season - while others led their league in everything - and werent even mentioned.

Here is what I learned - and it took me awhile to get it:

The only thing that really matters - is going to a game - and watching your son play.
When he smashes the ball into the parking lot behind centerfield - or makes a diving play - or steals another base - noone is talking about the lists. LOL

That is what I pay attention to now - and that is what I will always remember.

Have fun with the process - and enjoy it. Dont fight it. Thats my advice. And if your kid makes a "list" - enjoy that too.

Well, we aren't anywhere close to worrying about which list our 15 yo will be on, but from the wings looking out onto the stage, I agree that the argument seems to center around using the term "All-American". Probably because that title has historically been reserved for collegiate athletes who have been selected based on their career performance and other benchmarks by the national media (which answers the "non-paper" question.)

Maybe attaining that label through a single baseball showcase is too easy, and add to that the suggestion that money plays a role in the selection process--well it obviously gets folks riled. As the use of that label is expanded and granted beyond its traditional intent, it becomes diluted in its importance and stature for those who have been or will be named All-American scholar-athletes.

Beyond the argument against that label being used, I think each parent and player has to decide for themselves the benefit of being associated with an organization or team. Is it worth the price of admission? If so, then GREAT! It's all about playing more ball, playing better ball, being challenged, improving, having fun, being seen, following a dream. Each family chooses a path that seems right. Some have many choices, others have fewer because of money, location, timing, injury, ability, or whatever. Celebrate each kid's achievements rather than belittle them. Yeah, there's always a better team that didn't select you, but I say enjoy the one that wanted your boy, enjoy the extra time on the field, enjoy the competition, and be happy your player has another opportunity to show his skills.

Happy New Year, all-- and congratulations to every kid who'll take his/her position on the field come Spring.

Again,..this IS exactly what makes the HSBBW so valuable.

The readers can read from all angles and all sides of a topic. Emotions run high, and as long as we remain civil, than I feel we can all take away from this discussion what we decide we want to.
Its up to us the readers to decide which side of the fence we want to sit on,...some will perhaps decide to remain in the middle until more discussion is written. IMO, the more opinions and been-there-done-that posts, the better!!!

There are facts and there are opinions being thrown out. Its up to us the reader to remember that and to decipher it.

Here's my ol' two cents: Call a program, showcase, tournament, list of all lists, what you will,...the true talent will shine, the true talent will get noticed.

You can pay all the money in the world to get your kid noticed,..and you can take him to every stinkin' scheduled event known to man kind,...if he doesnt have the talent, then the ball stops bouncing forward until/if he gets better.

Take a kid with true talent to as many exposure forums known to mankind,..and he's going to have that many more doors and opportunities open up to him.

I tend to think that options are a good thing.

I also dont like to lump talent and kids into one list and assume all are at the same level, both talent and skill wise.

If little ol' me, shortstopmom knows that, I am sure there are many scouts and coaches ( who have alot more knowledge than I ), who also feel this way.
A list might bring a spot light to a player, but only true talent will bring an offer.

Exposure is good for those who have the talent. For those who are not up to par, it can be a much needed reality check ( work harder, get better, dont give up on your dream ).

Again,..talent is talent. Doesnt matter what list you are on, doesnt really matter what name its called.

IMO, the only baseball list that REALLY matters is a list called,

the starting lineup roster!!!

quote:

The only thing that really matters - is going to a game - and watching your son play.
When he smashes the ball into the parking lot behind centerfield - or makes a diving play - or steals another base - noone is talking about the lists.

That is what I pay attention to now - and that is what I will always remember.

Have fun with the process - and enjoy it. Dont fight it. Thats my advice. And if your kid makes a "list" - enjoy that too.

itsinthegame - outstanding post

quote:

Here's my ol' two cents: Call a program, showcase, tournament, list of all lists, what you will,...the true talent will shine, the true talent will get noticed.

You can pay all the money in the world to get your kid noticed,..and you can take him to every stinkin' scheduled event known to man kind,...if he doesnt have the talent, then the ball stops bouncing forward until/if he gets better.

Take a kid with true talent to as many exposure forums known to mankind,..and he's going to have that many more doors and opportunities open up to him. I tend to think that options are a good thing.

I also dont like to lump talent and kids into one list and assume all are at the same level, both talent and skill wise.
If I know that, I am sure there are some scouts and coaches who have alot more knowledge than I, who also feel this way. A list might bring a spot light to a player, but only true talent will bring an offer.

Exposure is good for those who have the talent. For those who are not up to par, it can be a much needed reality check ( work harder, get better, dont give up on your dream ).

Again,..talent is talent. Doesnt matter what list you are on, doesnt really matter what name its called.

IMO, the only baseball list that REALLY matters is a list called,

the starting lineup roster!!!

shortstopmom - loved your post as well

I earn my living in baseball, and have since 1982. I have never even looked at a HS All American list, not even when my son was in HS. I don't look at any of those lists, and it is even possible that my son has been on lists that I do not know about. Does it really matter? Not really.

What does matter? Do stats matter? Well, my own son does not look at his team's college stats, he doesn't read articles on their website about the team, doesn't read newspaper articles about the team or himself,so I guess they don't matter to him. I look at them, because they tell me something and I enjoy it.

A HS all american list only tells me that somebody (or group of people) have made a list that has come from watching hundreds of thousands of HS players play. Do these people actually see each of the teams and hundreds of thousands of players play. No.

So instead of arguing about the validity of some lists, just take them for what they are, somebody's lists, based on whatever they want to base them on. Congratulate those who make the list or don't. It shouldn't really matter.

Do any of you care to see my list of favorite NFL cheerleaders?