Question about Bat Speed (Tee Exit Velocity)

I think some are missing the point mentioned earlier that it is also about reaction time.  Remember exit velocity is a product of bat speed.  When you have low exit velocity you have slow bat speed.  Now you have to commit to your swing just a tic or two earlier and are more susceptible to being fooled.  And of course ball doesn't go as far or as fast.  Also there are a lot of bad hs hitters.  So it brings the average down.  Good 12 and 13 year olds already have exit velocities - using bbcor - in the 70's.

Based on my experience that high school number from Top 96 is very low.  

 

Just went back and looked at our tryout forms for last year, we had only 1 kid below 70 at our varsity tryouts.  Comparing their exit velocities to performance in the game, we only had one kid in the 70s hit for any power last year.  We hit a relatively high number of homeruns in the BBCOR era last year (22), and only 3 of them were by a kid w/ less than 80 on their initial exit speed testing.  

 

A few years ago, we had a kid who hit 45 varsity homeruns in 4 years, and by the time he left as a senior he was at 98-100 with wood. 

 

Again, a high exit velocity doesn't mean that they can hit.  It shows the kind of damage that they might do if they can hit, and it shows players who will probably struggle to hit unless they have a very high hand/eye coordination and square the ball up more than most hitters.  

 

Exit velocity is a nice tool, but obviously just a small part of the evaluation.  

I would say exit velocity is actually a huge part of evaluation.  Like you said low speeds are a death sentence for hitters.  While high bat speeds don't guarantee success it gives you a lot of raw ability to work with.  And the truth is most kids with high bat speeds are also really good hitters.  And while there are enough bad pitchers out there to let even slow bat speeds succeed when push comes to shove and you are facing a quality pitcher those low bat speeds disappear.  I think a lot of people want to trash the measurables rather than embracing them and then finding a way to improve them.

I think the real issue is ranking the players by bat speed/exit velocity.  Yes, you must have a min. bat speed/velocity to have a chance at success.  But what is the difference between 80 and 85?  From all accounts, that is enough speed to compete in HS.  So, imo, once you reach that level of speed, focusing on the ability to make solid contact is more useful.   

       
       
agreed while the extra 5mph is helpful certainly it is more than conceivable the guy with a 90 is better than the guy with the 95.  To clarify I was thinking more of the 70's that has been mentioned several times.  I think you would be hard pressed to see a really good hs hitter with exit velocities in the 70's.   For sure not low 70's.

"Average" exit velocity over a large number of ABs is a very important number.

       
       
I would agree but is this measurable outside of mlb?  I know high schools are not set up to measure actual game exit velocities.  Are some colleges?

If anyone is interested in what the top High School age hitters register for exit velocity, the following were the top 10 by TrackMan at WWBA Jupiter this past week.

 

Player.                 Exit Velo.   Distance.     Result

Josh Naylor.          108 mph.                      Line out

Terry Curtis.          106 mph.                      Foul ball

Mike Hickman.       106 mph.    424'.           Home run

Devin Mann.          106 mph.                      Single

Demi Orimoloye.     105 mph                      Ground out

Joey Bart.              105 mph.                     Double

Tyrone Perry.          105 mph.   427'           HR

Tyrone Perry.         105 mph.                     Double

Terry Curtis.           104 mph.                    Foul

Michael VanDegna.  104 mph.                    Error

Josh Naylor.            104 mph.   395'.          Home run

 

Many others registered batted balls between 100 and 104.  Around 50 home runs were hit.

These are batted exit velocity.  Tee exit velocity is a different number - correct?

 

Yes

okay, so I brought home an older police radar today and we measured some tee exit speed.  Took me a while to get the distance set up correctly, the radar was not wanting to pick up the ball if It wasn't traveling an ample amount in the air.  Once I was able to figure it out we tried three bats, aluminum 5150 bbcor, Composite LS Attack bbcor and wood.  The 5150 and Attack were pretty consistent at 78-81, hitting 83 a few times.  The wood was pretty consistent at 81-83 hitting 84 several times.  Now I just need to figure if the radar was accurate.  Will be taking it to my oldest's game this weekend and comparing it to the teams gun while they are charting pitchers.

 

Learned a cpl of things.

1) I was assuming that the non-wood bats would register slightly higher, but happy that the BBCOR concept was working well.

2) Righthooks swing looks pretty good and he is progressing nicely.  He was not content with only reaching 84, so I like that even more!

 

I will try and get some pitched ball exit speeds if I can verify the accuracy of this gun.

 

Gotta love time spent with the kids!!!!!   Had to cut the experiment short....wife was yelling at me to get dinner ready....LOL

 

       
       
out of curiosity are game exit velocities measured from behind the plate as the ball goes away?  How accurate do you think this would be standing behind a backstop?   Are the guns mounted higher?  Kond of curious h ow this gets measured.

Our readings are picked up by TrackMan at events.  It is located behind the plate on the backstop.  Exit velocity is just one of many things the Trackman records.

It would be interesting to see the incoming pitch velocities on these. 

Just recently read a study regarding the relationship between pitch speed and exit velocity.  The old the faster it comes in the faster it goes out thing.  Turns out there is only a very small relationship between pitch velocity and exit velocity.  I should say direct relationship more accurately.  The reason it seems like this is because most hitters especially at the amateur level tend to slow their swings on the slower pitches and turn and burn on the faster pitches.  Its a natural reaction for many.  Sometimes hard to get kids to wait that tick or two longer and then swing top speed.

so I brought home an older police radar today and we measured some tee exit speed

Be aware that some radar guns show average speed, some show last speed.

I would not rely on any radar gun unless it shows two speeds on each reading - fastest speed and last speed.  Ex. ball out of the hand, and ball as it reaches the plate.  Then, only rely on the speed if there is approx. 9-11 mph difference for fastballs.

 

Many times, I will take a reading and there is only 4 mph difference, or no difference.  That means I pointed the gun near the plate, or halfway, or the batteries on the gun are getting weak, or I'm too far away.

Sports Science youtube says 1mph pitch speed equals 1 foot distance .

 

1 mph bat speed = 5 feet distance.

Thanks, it only gives one speed.  It is a very old model, even for LEO purposes, and has been banged around a lot I am sure, but it still reads accurate using the tuning forks.  Guess I will have to break down and spend some coin on some updated technology, if I can stop buying gloves and bats on ebay!

I'd  like to see the kid who caught the 105mph ground out.

Did you hit the same bucket of balls with each bat? The bounciness could vary widely from one practice ball to another.

Yep, that's one thing that all those middle school science fair projects, (which always seemed to be sports related, and very proud because I...oh wait, I mean my kids, got A's on..LMAO), taught me...be consistent with the control.  All things were the same except the bats.  Not a huge difference but a difference none the less.

off topic but, I saw a 4-5th grade project to make the solar system. One was beautifully done, obvious parental help and got an A. Another was done not so well, but you can tell the student did it alone and got a C. ... sigh....

Probably a C converted to 3B

P velocity fine but if a P leaves a 92^ up in zone its gonna get hit. Location and having good off speed is just as import. 

       
       
this is actually about exit velocity but as long as you brought it up...  nothing is AS important as velocity.  If it were there would be mlb pitchers with great location and change of speeds topping out at 80mph.  Without the velocity you have nothing.  Then of those who do have the velocity the ones who also have location and change of speeds separate themselves from the pack.

 

Dear Dad, 

It sounds like your son has the potential to play baseball after high school. Congratulation, you should be very proud of him for all of his hard work. As a former big leaguer, my advice to him/you would be to focus on hitting the ball hard rather than aiming for a certain exit speed. As you get older, especially in the pros, the fielders are so good that soft hit balls don't make it through the infield. Like some have said, exit speed is good to know but it doesn't make or break you. What does make or break you as a player though are three things: your overall athleticism, skill, and attitude. My advice would be to focus your efforts on those three things because they are key differentiators. Get him as fast and athletic as possible, fine tune his skills so he can consistently hit the ball hard, and make sure he doesn't act like an asshole. Scouts and college coaches won't tell you this, but they really care about selecting players who help their teams win and treat others with respect. Sometimes it's the reason they take one guy over another. Very important! Also, good grades. You want to make sure he doesn't limit his options in the future. He sounds like a good kid, so you guys won't have to worry about some that stuff. Good luck!

 

       
       
here is a link that may help.
http://www.efastball.com/hitti...-speed-by-age-group/
as others have stated high exit velocity does not guarantee success but low exit velocity does guarantee failure.  Bottom line on exit velo is you need to get that north of 90 mph for D1 baseball.  The chart is a little confusing but basically we are talking 90+ off a tee with a bbcor bat.  If you square the ball up at an astounding rate you may be able to get away with high 80's.  But remember exit velocity is not only about hitting the ball harder and farther but also the higher bat speed which leads to higher exit velocities also lets you wait just a tick longer before committing to your swing.  This is why the vast majority of major league hitters use bata lighter than what would give thwm maximum distance.  They sacrifice some power to be able to wait just a tad longer on the pitch.

Great discussion.  How does one increase bat speed? 

Simple answer: get stronger while continuing to take regular BP. Squats, Bench, Deadlift, core work, etc... 

 

Longer answer - there's an old routine you can Google. Heavy bat, light bat, regular bat.  Basically, you're dry swinging a heavier than normal bat for several swings, followed by the lighter bat, and then your normal bat. Does it work? I don't know. I think it's more of a slowpitch softball routine. It should increase your bat speed with the normal bat for a dry swing. An actual swing in a game.... I don't know.

 

To get better exit speed in the test. Practice swinging off of a tee in a batting cage with someone timing your exit speed with a radar gun. Practicing this should help produce a better exit speed for the test. Will it equate to a faster in game swing? Maybe?

 

Stafford touches on a very interesting point.  Improving exit velocity for a showcase vs. to actually make yourself better.  I think the stronger more athletic more flexible through training is the best way to go.  But if you are just looking for a band aid to get your number at a showcase you need to find the perfect bat first.  Remember no mlb player uses a bat that maximizes their exit velocity.  They give a bit of that up in order to keep some reaction time in reserve. So if you are just hitting off a tee you may want a heavier or longer bat or both.  You would have to actually experiment a little with this.  Maybe even wood to get a couple more ounes.  Then you need to do a lot of tee work with that bat trying to hit balls right at or away from the radar to get the best read.  May even want to slant your feet a bit to 'pull' the ball bit still have it going right at or away from the gun.  Just have to play with bats and foot positioning to see where your exit velocity is the best.

Probably most important is bat speed at contact.  That is what ZEPP provides.  In fact it can show a hitter if his max bat speed is at or before or after contact. This is something that most hitters would never know.  

       
       
you guys have all angles covered don't you!

No, not really, but we try hard.  Being an type school type, I'm still very impressed with all the new technology.

Avoid the tee work until you understand how to properly load. Tee work can cause bad loading habits that lead to your front sholder flying open. Just my opinion lol

       
       


0-5 can easily change to 3-9, just saying lol

I am new to this forum but I have enjoyed reading all the advice and learning from the exp parents/coaches etc. I never played baseball, so I am still learning a lot. My boys have played and I have helped out and we have been a baseball family for 12 yrs now. My youngest, I guess he would be a 2020 (12 now) had his exit speed measured the other day from his instructor. Off the tee it was 75. He has always been a power hitter but also hits for average. Not really sure what all these #'s mean at a younger age, if anything.

       
       
Welcome!  I also have a 13u, class of 2020.  There are starting to be a few of us now.  Hopefully we all enjoy our ride together!  75 off tee is really really good for a 2020.  What the number means is he has the physical bat speed to be a great hitter.  Now all the other particulars come into play.  As we have said before on this thread high bat speed does not.guarantee success but low bat speed guarantees failure.  So for example the 2020 kids who have an exit velocity of say 50 or 52 are going to find it really difficult to get the ball out if the infield on the 90ft diamond.  For states that use 54 their chances are a little better but still problematic.  Look forward to hearing about your son's progress!

I am an old, fat, out of shape, pitcher.  I have a current tee exit speed of 96 with wood.  Does that mean I'm ready to go to MLB as a position player?  No!  But I do use exit speed as ONE way to measure hitters because the other ways are subjective.  I do think that you have to have "good enough" exit speed, but faster doesn't always translate to better.

       
       
But you must agree there are minimums.  In pitchers language a guy who tops out at 83mph is not getting drafted.  Period.

Dang... I better get older, fatter, and pitcherier, I literally got 92 to the other day!  Got something to work for I guess...