My son recently went to a college showcase where they measured his bat speed.  This is the first time we have encountered this.  It was reported that his best tee exit velocity was 79mph.  The coach that did the evaluation stated that this was very good.  My question is, is 79mph good for a 16yo High School Junior.  (Yes he has a late birthday.  Early July.)  What speed should he be targeting?  Thank you.

Original Post

Exit speed is an interesting topic. Some coaches base their whole hitting evaluation of a player on it and it's quite ridiculous. Obviously, it's somewhat important because bat speed will allow a hitter to wait longer before starting his swing, thus giving him more time to recognize the pitch and decide to swing or not.

 

However, bat speed will never compensate for sound pitch recognition, a good approach, and an understanding of what the pitcher and defense is trying to do to you.

 

In short, I guess what I'm trying to say is high baseball IQ will beat incredible bat speed at a higher level. (provided that the hitter has a minimum of athletic ability; i.e a good enough bat speed to catch up with a fastball)

Per the Demarini Top 96 Evaluation sheet: Based on hitting a line drive off of a tee with a BBCOR bat.

 

High School - 63-78 mph with 69 considered average.

College - 82-93 with low level at 82-86, mid level at 87 - 89, and high level at 90-93

Pro Level  - 102

 

With added strength and maturity, he will probably get his bat speed up to the low 80's and if he focuses on practice with the tee for the exit speed test, maybe another 1-2 mph. So, with strength, maturity and practice, 84-85 should be attainable in time.

To avoid confusion in this thread.

Bat speed is the speed of the bat itself.  (This is problematic since you don't know where in the swing plane you achieved the speed - ex after contact, etc.)

Exit speed is the speed of the ball after it hits the bat.  (Tee is best for consistency, or use same pitch speed, and bat weight/type)

Exit speed is a great indicator for scouting (if same pitch speed and bat type/weight).  Great MLB (wood bat, and 90 mph pitches) exit speeds are 100+.  Stanton hit 119.9 this year.

What speed should he be targeting?

Just get faster each time.  Try different things and see if they are faster.

I don't think the focus on one particular number is all that helpful.  It is an easy number to measure, but what does it really tell you.  All things being equal, the higher exit speed should equate to a longer ball.  But in the real world, rarely are all things equal.  IMO, hitting the moving pitch is a better indicator of future performance. 

Sigh, bat speed means nothing. It could be a long loopy swing open gate swing. Are you in control when you swing 100%? Amateur hitters  proly swing only 80% in a game. This can be applied to hitting off a tee since the ball is stationary and can sing 100%. Also since ball is stationary less force is needed to move the balls inertia. in regards to force, it's not the acceleration that's the defineing variable, it's the ability of the batter to put his mass behind the bat

.

LABall,

 

With respect I would have to disagree that bat speed means "nothing". It may not be the most important thing, but if everything else were equal (ability to square, strength/weight/mass, pitch recognition, etc.) then bat speed becomes a big separator.

 

There is out of control bat speed and there is under control bat speed.  I agree that "control" is most important.  There have been successful MLB hitters with below average bat speed.

Bat speed alone doesn't get the job done.  However, take Pujols or anyone else and subtract a good amount of bat speed from their norm and the results will not be as good.

 

Even though I disagreed with LABall when he stated bat speed means nothing.  What he mentioned at the end of his post is the most important thing.  And it is possible to have 100mph bat speed and still be a bad hitter.  Similar to a pitcher having a 100mph fastball yet not being a good pitcher.  However, having a 100 mph fastball tends to create a lot more opportunities than having 100mph bat speed.

Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:
Originally Posted by playball2011:

Saw big kid at showcase with bat speed listed at 90. 

Went 0-5 in game. 

90 bat speed would be better than most MLB hitters.  I'll take him.

Go ahead, he's gotten no interest from anyone I know of. They look at him because of his size but he doesn't produce in real games. Some players showcase better than they play. Bet I could find a large bodybuilder who can hit 90 off a tee, doesn't mean he's a baseball player.

Originally Posted by NYdad2017:
Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:
 

90 bat speed would be better than most MLB hitters.  I'll take him.

 

In 2006 Pujols had his bat speed measured at 87mph.  0 for 5 or not, that kid is better then Pujols.  

 

Better at what? I've never seen anyone hit a HR off a tee

Originally Posted by playball2011:

Saw big kid at showcase with bat speed listed at 90. 

Went 0-5 in game. 

I'm guessing here, but I imagine you are confusing exit speed with bat speed.

 

Anyone with a wood bat speed of 90 will be looked at.  Even a body builder.  I could teach them how to hit the ball.

 

Someone with an exit speed of 90 would not be so great.

Originally Posted by playball2011:
Originally Posted by NYdad2017:
Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:
 

90 bat speed would be better than most MLB hitters.  I'll take him.

 

In 2006 Pujols had his bat speed measured at 87mph.  0 for 5 or not, that kid is better then Pujols.  

 

Better at what? I've never seen anyone hit a HR off a tee

I've seen Dante Bichette Sr. do it many, many times...

About a month ago my 14u son was measured at 85mph off a tee with a wood bat.  He hasn't had it measured off a pitched ball as of yet.  Maybe he'll get that info at the PG Mid-Atlantic Underclass in late August.  Most of the kids at the PBR event that he did were below 85mph with BBCOR.  Maybe 2 were higher (highest was 90mph), also with BBCOR.  Why my son elected to be the only one swinging wood, I have no idea.

 

Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:

WWBA exit speeds

 

These are wood bats, and pitched balls.

 

These speeds would be comparable to posted MLB exit speeds.

 

These speeds could be roughly 8 mph higher if they used non-wood bats. Their exit speed would also be approximately 17 mph slower using a tee.

 

 

That exit speed data is interesting.  Notice that the farthest hit balls are mostly below the fastest exit speeds --- mid 90s vs 100+.  I would guess that would have to do with angle of attack and ability to square it up.

Distance would be a function of exit speed + launch angle + spin rate.

Based on a personal Trackman experience, I saw spin rate variances cause approx 15-20 feet extra distance.  I think the numbers were 2000 avg and 3500 high rpm.

And that is backwards from the Trackman page on Spin Rate for Golf.  They say higher spin rates are bad for golf balls.  I'm not sure I understand that.

Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:

Distance would be a function of exit speed + launch angle + spin rate.

Based on a personal Trackman experience, I saw spin rate variances cause approx 15-20 feet extra distance.  I think the numbers were 2000 avg and 3500 high rpm.

And that is backwards from the Trackman page on Spin Rate for Golf.  They say higher spin rates are bad for golf balls.  I'm not sure I understand that.

I think it has to do with the aerodynamic properties of a golf ball.  High spin rates are desirable on short shots so you can "stick" the ball on the green.  You see the pros put so much spin on the ball, they can back it up.   

Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:

Distance would be a function of exit speed + launch angle + spin rate.

Based on a personal Trackman experience, I saw spin rate variances cause approx 15-20 feet extra distance.  I think the numbers were 2000 avg and 3500 high rpm.

And that is backwards from the Trackman page on Spin Rate for GolfThey say higher spin rates are bad for golf balls.  I'm not sure I understand that.

they are looking for spin rates of 2000 to 2500 or so for golf, that is for drivers off the T. short irons spin rates are 5k and up that is how they stick on landing or depending on the swing and conditions back up.

 

I think your spin data matches golf pretty close if you are looking for distance numbers.

I know this thread is a little old but I just had to chime in.  Why does it seem like a certain percentage of people on here - by no means a majority but some - are numbers haters?  Early on here I have encountered some really smart baseball people.  And I think we all understand no single number stat or projectable body type guarantees success.  But on the other hand there are numbers that guarantee failure and numbers that at least show potential.  If you top out at 80mph you will never be drafted period.  If you throw 100 you have about a 100% chance of being drafted.  You may or may not succeed but you will be drafted.  An exit velocity of 75  is going to be too slow for pro ball.  And probably d1 as well.  Remember its not just about power.   Its about being able to wait that little extra tick before starting your swing.  A catcher with a pop time of 2.50 will not be a catcher long.  The numbers do matter.  And they are a great objective way to see if your son is on track.  And its ok if he is a little behind.  Just has to work a little harder.  But the answer is not to say the numbers are invalid.

Numbers are just a benchmark and often don't tell the whole story.  Look at the exit speed data referenced above.  The farthest hit balls did not have the highest exit speed.  So if you're look for a kid who can really mash, exit speed alone may not get it done.  With that said, you certainly need certain threshold numbers to get noticed. 

 

 

Joilietboy

 

Numbers do matter to most baseball guy's. Some of us love to do our homework with the numbers that are provided to us, and then go watch the kid play and see how he uses these tools in the game.

 

 If someone told me that there is a kid coming up to bat with a 105mph exit speed, I'm not leaving until I see him hit. The real smart guy's know that some awesome numbers that are posted should be discounted because of how the player looked while maxing out. (every time he hits 90mph he throws it over the backstop, or a catcher with a1.85 pop but never below 2.10 in a game) And at the same time other scouts like these impressive numbers, and they see it as raw talent and now it is their job to get the player to duplicate these peaks in a useable form.

 

 I love numbers they are attention getters and then the player has to go perform. With 6" of snow on the ground in the middle of January sometimes numbers is all I got to get me through the winter.

Originally Posted by The Doctor:

       

Joilietboy

 

Numbers do matter to most baseball guy's. Some of us love to do our homework with the numbers that are provided to us, and then go watch the kid play and see how he uses these tools in the game.

 

 If someone told me that there is a kid coming up to bat with a 105mph exit speed, I'm not leaving until I see him hit. The real smart guy's know that some awesome numbers that are posted should be discounted because of how the player looked while maxing out. (every time he hits 90mph he throws it over the backstop, or a catcher with a1.85 pop but never below 2.10 in a game) And at the same time other scouts like these impressive numbers, and they see it as raw talent and now it is their job to get the player to duplicate these peaks in a useable form.

 

 I love numbers they are attention getters and then the player has to go perform. With 6" of snow on the ground in the middle of January sometimes numbers is all I got to get me through the winter.

no
       

Very well said
Originally Posted by Golfman25:

Numbers are just a benchmark and often don't tell the whole story.  Look at the exit speed data referenced above.  The farthest hit balls did not have the highest exit speed.  So if you're look for a kid who can really mash, exit speed alone may not get it done.  

It's all numbers, my friend, you're just missing one.

 

Distance = exit speed + spin rate (+ launch angle of course)

How are these speeds being measured?   I saw Zepp offered this info at Baseball Heaven.   Not really sure of the accuracy as I took a swing that was measured at 101.   I'm 45 and not even a weekend warrior any longer.  In my defense, though, I have recently hit a 390' HR with a wood bat in a competitive game.

Originally Posted by ephins:

       

How are these speeds being measured?   I saw Zepp offered this info at Baseball Heaven.   Not really sure of the accuracy as I took a swing that was measured at 101.   I'm 45 and not even a weekend warrior any longer.  In my defense, though, I have recently hit a 390' HR with a wood bat in a competitive game.


       
swing being 101 is impossible.  Must be a misread.  But if you are talking exit velocity (how fast the ball comes off the bat) then yes that's about right.  Actual swing speed is just about impossible to measure without equipment made specifically for that purpose.  Thats why showcases and tryouts etc. Rely on exit velocity.  Much easier and more accurate.  Usually the player its off the tee into netting and the person with the gun stands behind the netting.  Best read id the ball coming right at the gun.
Originally Posted by jolietboy:
Originally Posted by ephins:

       

How are these speeds being measured?   I saw Zepp offered this info at Baseball Heaven.   Not really sure of the accuracy as I took a swing that was measured at 101.   I'm 45 and not even a weekend warrior any longer.  In my defense, though, I have recently hit a 390' HR with a wood bat in a competitive game.


       
swing being 101 is impossible.  Must be a misread.  But if you are talking exit velocity (how fast the ball comes off the bat) then yes that's about right.  Actual swing speed is just about impossible to measure without equipment made specifically for that purpose.  Thats why showcases and tryouts etc. Rely on exit velocity.  Much easier and more accurate.  Usually the player its off the tee into netting and the person with the gun stands behind the netting.  Best read id the ball coming right at the gun.

 My bad.   Exit velocity is what I meant.  Thanks

best bat speed and ball exit: here is how to accomplish maximum distance no matter the science and people have been doing it for hundreds of years.

1) Step in the box 

2) grab crotch

3) bat tap each side of the plate

4) stare down pitcher

5)smash first pitch fastball

6) pimp that Sugar Honey Ice Tea

Originally Posted by right arm of zeus:

best bat speed and ball exit: here is how to accomplish maximum distance no matter the science and people have been doing it for hundreds of years.

1) Step in the box 

2) grab crotch

3) bat tap each side of the plate

4) stare down pitcher

5)smash first pitch fastball

6) pimp that Sugar Honey Ice Tea


That's what Billy Butler did last night on his rbi single - 112mph exit speed.

We do use exit velocity off the tee as part of our tryout for this simple reason: it doesn't tell me who CAN hit, but it tells me who CAN'T hit. 

 

Like many of you said, a great exit speed doesn't mean that they will be able to hit, it just means that they might be able to.  

 

In the BBCOR era if a varsity player is producing exit speeds in the 70s, they probably won't be able to generate enough power to hit at that level.   

 

Originally Posted by BCRockets:

       

We do use exit velocity off the tee as part of our tryout for this simple reason: it doesn't tell me who CAN hit, but it tells me who CAN'T hit. 

 

Like many of you said, a great exit speed doesn't mean that they will be able to hit, it just means that they might be able to.  

 

In the BBCOR era if a varsity player is producing exit speeds in the 70s, they probably won't be able to generate enough power to hit at that level.   

 


       
well said

I'm confused.  An earlier post stated: 

 

Per the Demarini Top 96 Evaluation sheet: Based on hitting a line drive off of a tee with a BBCOR bat.

 

High School - 63-78 mph with 69 considered average.

College - 82-93 with low level at 82-86, mid level at 87 - 89, and high level at 90-93

Pro Level  - 102

 

Now the post above says exit speeds in the 70's aren't good enough for HS varsity?

Guys in the 70s will struggle to stay in the lineup usually.  I coach in the largest classification in Missouri.  We are a good team, but it is due to pitching/defense, not hitting.  We currently have 14 guys at 80+ off the tee (with wood).  They aren't necessarily our 14 best hitters, but if you are at 72-74, there probably aren't going to be at-bats coming your way this spring.

How do those speeds translate in real life?  IOW does a squared up line drive hit in the 70's make it out of the IF?  I'm assuming that a squared up fly ball hit in the 70's right at an OF doesn't get over his head, cause from what I've seen only the strongest kids can do that with a BBCOR.

70s definitely makes it into the OF if it is "squared up".  So much is depended upon size of field, competition, level of school, etc.

 

If you hit 75 off the tee as a sophomore, you will probably get cut in large class California, and be all-state at a small school in Delaware.

 

What exit velo in the 70s does is prevent extra base hits, and give little margin for error at times.  However, it will still get you in the lineup at some places, using a variety of factors.  But I highly doubt there are guys that hit it 75 that are going D-1.

I think some are missing the point mentioned earlier that it is also about reaction time.  Remember exit velocity is a product of bat speed.  When you have low exit velocity you have slow bat speed.  Now you have to commit to your swing just a tic or two earlier and are more susceptible to being fooled.  And of course ball doesn't go as far or as fast.  Also there are a lot of bad hs hitters.  So it brings the average down.  Good 12 and 13 year olds already have exit velocities - using bbcor - in the 70's.

Based on my experience that high school number from Top 96 is very low.  

 

Just went back and looked at our tryout forms for last year, we had only 1 kid below 70 at our varsity tryouts.  Comparing their exit velocities to performance in the game, we only had one kid in the 70s hit for any power last year.  We hit a relatively high number of homeruns in the BBCOR era last year (22), and only 3 of them were by a kid w/ less than 80 on their initial exit speed testing.  

 

A few years ago, we had a kid who hit 45 varsity homeruns in 4 years, and by the time he left as a senior he was at 98-100 with wood. 

 

Again, a high exit velocity doesn't mean that they can hit.  It shows the kind of damage that they might do if they can hit, and it shows players who will probably struggle to hit unless they have a very high hand/eye coordination and square the ball up more than most hitters.  

 

Exit velocity is a nice tool, but obviously just a small part of the evaluation.  

I would say exit velocity is actually a huge part of evaluation.  Like you said low speeds are a death sentence for hitters.  While high bat speeds don't guarantee success it gives you a lot of raw ability to work with.  And the truth is most kids with high bat speeds are also really good hitters.  And while there are enough bad pitchers out there to let even slow bat speeds succeed when push comes to shove and you are facing a quality pitcher those low bat speeds disappear.  I think a lot of people want to trash the measurables rather than embracing them and then finding a way to improve them.
Originally Posted by jolietboy:
I would say exit velocity is actually a huge part of evaluation.  Like you said low speeds are a death sentence for hitters.  While high bat speeds don't guarantee success it gives you a lot of raw ability to work with.  And the truth is most kids with high bat speeds are also really good hitters.  And while there are enough bad pitchers out there to let even slow bat speeds succeed when push comes to shove and you are facing a quality pitcher those low bat speeds disappear.  I think a lot of people want to trash the measurables rather than embracing them and then finding a way to improve them.

I think the real issue is ranking the players by bat speed/exit velocity.  Yes, you must have a min. bat speed/velocity to have a chance at success.  But what is the difference between 80 and 85?  From all accounts, that is enough speed to compete in HS.  So, imo, once you reach that level of speed, focusing on the ability to make solid contact is more useful.   

Originally Posted by Golfman25:

       
Originally Posted by jolietboy:
I would say exit velocity is actually a huge part of evaluation.  Like you said low speeds are a death sentence for hitters.  While high bat speeds don't guarantee success it gives you a lot of raw ability to work with.  And the truth is most kids with high bat speeds are also really good hitters.  And while there are enough bad pitchers out there to let even slow bat speeds succeed when push comes to shove and you are facing a quality pitcher those low bat speeds disappear.  I think a lot of people want to trash the measurables rather than embracing them and then finding a way to improve them.

I think the real issue is ranking the players by bat speed/exit velocity.  Yes, you must have a min. bat speed/velocity to have a chance at success.  But what is the difference between 80 and 85?  From all accounts, that is enough speed to compete in HS.  So, imo, once you reach that level of speed, focusing on the ability to make solid contact is more useful.   


       
agreed while the extra 5mph is helpful certainly it is more than conceivable the guy with a 90 is better than the guy with the 95.  To clarify I was thinking more of the 70's that has been mentioned several times.  I think you would be hard pressed to see a really good hs hitter with exit velocities in the 70's.   For sure not low 70's.
Originally Posted by PGStaff:

       

"Average" exit velocity over a large number of ABs is a very important number.


       
I would agree but is this measurable outside of mlb?  I know high schools are not set up to measure actual game exit velocities.  Are some colleges?

If anyone is interested in what the top High School age hitters register for exit velocity, the following were the top 10 by TrackMan at WWBA Jupiter this past week.

 

Player.                 Exit Velo.   Distance.     Result

Josh Naylor.          108 mph.                      Line out

Terry Curtis.          106 mph.                      Foul ball

Mike Hickman.       106 mph.    424'.           Home run

Devin Mann.          106 mph.                      Single

Demi Orimoloye.     105 mph                      Ground out

Joey Bart.              105 mph.                     Double

Tyrone Perry.          105 mph.   427'           HR

Tyrone Perry.         105 mph.                     Double

Terry Curtis.           104 mph.                    Foul

Michael VanDegna.  104 mph.                    Error

Josh Naylor.            104 mph.   395'.          Home run

 

Many others registered batted balls between 100 and 104.  Around 50 home runs were hit.

okay, so I brought home an older police radar today and we measured some tee exit speed.  Took me a while to get the distance set up correctly, the radar was not wanting to pick up the ball if It wasn't traveling an ample amount in the air.  Once I was able to figure it out we tried three bats, aluminum 5150 bbcor, Composite LS Attack bbcor and wood.  The 5150 and Attack were pretty consistent at 78-81, hitting 83 a few times.  The wood was pretty consistent at 81-83 hitting 84 several times.  Now I just need to figure if the radar was accurate.  Will be taking it to my oldest's game this weekend and comparing it to the teams gun while they are charting pitchers.

 

Learned a cpl of things.

1) I was assuming that the non-wood bats would register slightly higher, but happy that the BBCOR concept was working well.

2) Righthooks swing looks pretty good and he is progressing nicely.  He was not content with only reaching 84, so I like that even more!

 

I will try and get some pitched ball exit speeds if I can verify the accuracy of this gun.

 

Gotta love time spent with the kids!!!!!   Had to cut the experiment short....wife was yelling at me to get dinner ready....LOL

 

Originally Posted by PGStaff:

       

"Average" exit velocity over a large number of ABs is a very important number.


       
out of curiosity are game exit velocities measured from behind the plate as the ball goes away?  How accurate do you think this would be standing behind a backstop?   Are the guns mounted higher?  Kond of curious h ow this gets measured.
Originally Posted by PGStaff:

If anyone is interested in what the top High School age hitters register for exit velocity, the following were the top 10 by TrackMan at WWBA Jupiter this past week.

 

Player.                 Exit Velo.   Distance.     Result

Josh Naylor.          108 mph.                      Line out

Terry Curtis.          106 mph.                      Foul ball

Mike Hickman.       106 mph.    424'.           Home run

Devin Mann.          106 mph.                      Single

Demi Orimoloye.     105 mph                      Ground out

Joey Bart.              105 mph.                     Double

Tyrone Perry.          105 mph.   427'           HR

Tyrone Perry.         105 mph.                     Double

Terry Curtis.           104 mph.                    Foul

Michael VanDegna.  104 mph.                    Error

Josh Naylor.            104 mph.   395'.          Home run

 

Many others registered batted balls between 100 and 104.  Around 50 home runs were hit.

It would be interesting to see the incoming pitch velocities on these. 

Just recently read a study regarding the relationship between pitch speed and exit velocity.  The old the faster it comes in the faster it goes out thing.  Turns out there is only a very small relationship between pitch velocity and exit velocity.  I should say direct relationship more accurately.  The reason it seems like this is because most hitters especially at the amateur level tend to slow their swings on the slower pitches and turn and burn on the faster pitches.  Its a natural reaction for many.  Sometimes hard to get kids to wait that tick or two longer and then swing top speed.
so I brought home an older police radar today and we measured some tee exit speed



Be aware that some radar guns show average speed, some show last speed.

I would not rely on any radar gun unless it shows two speeds on each reading - fastest speed and last speed.  Ex. ball out of the hand, and ball as it reaches the plate.  Then, only rely on the speed if there is approx. 9-11 mph difference for fastballs.

 

Many times, I will take a reading and there is only 4 mph difference, or no difference.  That means I pointed the gun near the plate, or halfway, or the batteries on the gun are getting weak, or I'm too far away.

Originally Posted by jolietboy:
Just recently read a study regarding the relationship between pitch speed and exit velocity.  The old the faster it comes in the faster it goes out thing.  Turns out there is only a very small relationship between pitch velocity and exit velocity.

Sports Science youtube says 1mph pitch speed equals 1 foot distance .

 

1 mph bat speed = 5 feet distance.

Originally Posted by SultanofSwat:
so I brought home an older police radar today and we measured some tee exit speed



Be aware that some radar guns show average speed, some show last speed.

I would not rely on any radar gun unless it shows two speeds on each reading - fastest speed and last speed.  Ex. ball out of the hand, and ball as it reaches the plate.  Then, only rely on the speed if there is approx. 9-11 mph difference for fastballs.

 

Many times, I will take a reading and there is only 4 mph difference, or no difference.  That means I pointed the gun near the plate, or halfway, or the batteries on the gun are getting weak, or I'm too far away.

Thanks, it only gives one speed.  It is a very old model, even for LEO purposes, and has been banged around a lot I am sure, but it still reads accurate using the tuning forks.  Guess I will have to break down and spend some coin on some updated technology, if I can stop buying gloves and bats on ebay!

Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by PGStaff:

If anyone is interested in what the top High School age hitters register for exit velocity, the following were the top 10 by TrackMan at WWBA Jupiter this past week.

 

Player.                 Exit Velo.   Distance.     Result

Josh Naylor.          108 mph.                      Line out

Terry Curtis.          106 mph.                      Foul ball

Mike Hickman.       106 mph.    424'.           Home run

Devin Mann.          106 mph.                      Single

Demi Orimoloye.     105 mph                      Ground out

Joey Bart.              105 mph.                     Double

Tyrone Perry.          105 mph.   427'           HR

Tyrone Perry.         105 mph.                     Double

Terry Curtis.           104 mph.                    Foul

Michael VanDegna.  104 mph.                    Error

Josh Naylor.            104 mph.   395'.          Home run

 

Many others registered batted balls between 100 and 104.  Around 50 home runs were hit.

It would be interesting to see the incoming pitch velocities on these. 

I'd  like to see the kid who caught the 105mph ground out.

Originally Posted by MidAtlanticDad:
Originally Posted by lefthookdad:

Once I was able to figure it out we tried three bats, aluminum 5150 bbcor, Composite LS Attack bbcor and wood.

Did you hit the same bucket of balls with each bat? The bounciness could vary widely from one practice ball to another.

Yep, that's one thing that all those middle school science fair projects, (which always seemed to be sports related, and very proud because I...oh wait, I mean my kids, got A's on..LMAO), taught me...be consistent with the control.  All things were the same except the bats.  Not a huge difference but a difference none the less.

Originally Posted by lefthookdad:
 

Yep, that's one thing that all those middle school science fair projects, (which always seemed to be sports related, and very proud because I...oh wait, I mean my kids, got A's on..LMAO), taught me...be consistent with the control.  All things were the same except the bats.  Not a huge difference but a difference none the less.

off topic but, I saw a 4-5th grade project to make the solar system. One was beautifully done, obvious parental help and got an A. Another was done not so well, but you can tell the student did it alone and got a C. ... sigh....

Originally Posted by Go44dad:
Originally Posted by Golfman25:
Originally Posted by PGStaff:

If anyone is interested in what the top High School age hitters register for exit velocity, the following were the top 10 by TrackMan at WWBA Jupiter this past week.

 

Player.                 Exit Velo.   Distance.     Result

Josh Naylor.          108 mph.                      Line out

Terry Curtis.          106 mph.                      Foul ball

Mike Hickman.       106 mph.    424'.           Home run

Devin Mann.          106 mph.                      Single

Demi Orimoloye.     105 mph                      Ground out

Joey Bart.              105 mph.                     Double

Tyrone Perry.          105 mph.   427'           HR

Tyrone Perry.         105 mph.                     Double

Terry Curtis.           104 mph.                    Foul

Michael VanDegna.  104 mph.                    Error

Josh Naylor.            104 mph.   395'.          Home run

 

Many others registered batted balls between 100 and 104.  Around 50 home runs were hit.

It would be interesting to see the incoming pitch velocities on these. 

I'd  like to see the kid who caught the 105mph ground out.

Probably a C converted to 3B

Originally Posted by playball2011:

       

P velocity fine but if a P leaves a 92^ up in zone its gonna get hit. Location and having good off speed is just as import. 


       
this is actually about exit velocity but as long as you brought it up...  nothing is AS important as velocity.  If it were there would be mlb pitchers with great location and change of speeds topping out at 80mph.  Without the velocity you have nothing.  Then of those who do have the velocity the ones who also have location and change of speeds separate themselves from the pack.
Originally Posted by Whoosh:

My son recently went to a college showcase where they measured his bat speed.  This is the first time we have encountered this.  It was reported that his best tee exit velocity was 79mph.  The coach that did the evaluation stated that this was very good.  My question is, is 79mph good for a 16yo High School Junior.  (Yes he has a late birthday.  Early July.)  What speed should he be targeting?  Thank you.

 

Dear Dad, 

It sounds like your son has the potential to play baseball after high school. Congratulation, you should be very proud of him for all of his hard work. As a former big leaguer, my advice to him/you would be to focus on hitting the ball hard rather than aiming for a certain exit speed. As you get older, especially in the pros, the fielders are so good that soft hit balls don't make it through the infield. Like some have said, exit speed is good to know but it doesn't make or break you. What does make or break you as a player though are three things: your overall athleticism, skill, and attitude. My advice would be to focus your efforts on those three things because they are key differentiators. Get him as fast and athletic as possible, fine tune his skills so he can consistently hit the ball hard, and make sure he doesn't act like an asshole. Scouts and college coaches won't tell you this, but they really care about selecting players who help their teams win and treat others with respect. Sometimes it's the reason they take one guy over another. Very important! Also, good grades. You want to make sure he doesn't limit his options in the future. He sounds like a good kid, so you guys won't have to worry about some that stuff. Good luck!

 

Originally Posted by MMS.Shortstop:

       
Originally Posted by Whoosh:

My son recently went to a college showcase where they measured his bat speed.  This is the first time we have encountered this.  It was reported that his best tee exit velocity was 79mph.  The coach that did the evaluation stated that this was very good.  My question is, is 79mph good for a 16yo High School Junior.  (Yes he has a late birthday.  Early July.)  What speed should he be targeting?  Thank you.

 

Dear Dad, 

It sounds like your son has the potential to play baseball after high school. Congratulation, you should be very proud of him for all of his hard work. As a former big leaguer, my advice to him/you would be to focus on hitting the ball hard rather than aiming for a certain exit speed. As you get older, especially in the pros, the fielders are so good that soft hit balls don't make it through the infield. Like some have said, exit speed is good to know but it doesn't make or break you. What does make or break you as a player though are three things: your overall athleticism, skill, and attitude. My advice would be to focus your efforts on those three things because they are key differentiators. Get him as fast and athletic as possible, fine tune his skills so he can consistently hit the ball hard, and make sure he doesn't act like an asshole. Scouts and college coaches won't tell you this, but they really care about selecting players who help their teams win and treat others with respect. Sometimes it's the reason they take one guy over another. Very important! Also, good grades. You want to make sure he doesn't limit his options in the future. He sounds like a good kid, so you guys won't have to worry about some that stuff. Good luck!

 


       
here is a link that may help.
http://www.efastball.com/hitti...-speed-by-age-group/
as others have stated high exit velocity does not guarantee success but low exit velocity does guarantee failure.  Bottom line on exit velo is you need to get that north of 90 mph for D1 baseball.  The chart is a little confusing but basically we are talking 90+ off a tee with a bbcor bat.  If you square the ball up at an astounding rate you may be able to get away with high 80's.  But remember exit velocity is not only about hitting the ball harder and farther but also the higher bat speed which leads to higher exit velocities also lets you wait just a tick longer before committing to your swing.  This is why the vast majority of major league hitters use bata lighter than what would give thwm maximum distance.  They sacrifice some power to be able to wait just a tad longer on the pitch.

Simple answer: get stronger while continuing to take regular BP. Squats, Bench, Deadlift, core work, etc... 

 

Longer answer - there's an old routine you can Google. Heavy bat, light bat, regular bat.  Basically, you're dry swinging a heavier than normal bat for several swings, followed by the lighter bat, and then your normal bat. Does it work? I don't know. I think it's more of a slowpitch softball routine. It should increase your bat speed with the normal bat for a dry swing. An actual swing in a game.... I don't know.

 

To get better exit speed in the test. Practice swinging off of a tee in a batting cage with someone timing your exit speed with a radar gun. Practicing this should help produce a better exit speed for the test. Will it equate to a faster in game swing? Maybe?

 

Stafford touches on a very interesting point.  Improving exit velocity for a showcase vs. to actually make yourself better.  I think the stronger more athletic more flexible through training is the best way to go.  But if you are just looking for a band aid to get your number at a showcase you need to find the perfect bat first.  Remember no mlb player uses a bat that maximizes their exit velocity.  They give a bit of that up in order to keep some reaction time in reserve. So if you are just hitting off a tee you may want a heavier or longer bat or both.  You would have to actually experiment a little with this.  Maybe even wood to get a couple more ounes.  Then you need to do a lot of tee work with that bat trying to hit balls right at or away from the radar to get the best read.  May even want to slant your feet a bit to 'pull' the ball bit still have it going right at or away from the gun.  Just have to play with bats and foot positioning to see where your exit velocity is the best.
Originally Posted by PGStaff:

       

Probably most important is bat speed at contact.  That is what ZEPP provides.  In fact it can show a hitter if his max bat speed is at or before or after contact. This is something that most hitters would never know.  


       
you guys have all angles covered don't you!

I am new to this forum but I have enjoyed reading all the advice and learning from the exp parents/coaches etc. I never played baseball, so I am still learning a lot. My boys have played and I have helped out and we have been a baseball family for 12 yrs now. My youngest, I guess he would be a 2020 (12 now) had his exit speed measured the other day from his instructor. Off the tee it was 75. He has always been a power hitter but also hits for average. Not really sure what all these #'s mean at a younger age, if anything.

Originally Posted by slider8:

       

I am new to this forum but I have enjoyed reading all the advice and learning from the exp parents/coaches etc. I never played baseball, so I am still learning a lot. My boys have played and I have helped out and we have been a baseball family for 12 yrs now. My youngest, I guess he would be a 2020 (12 now) had his exit speed measured the other day from his instructor. Off the tee it was 75. He has always been a power hitter but also hits for average. Not really sure what all these #'s mean at a younger age, if anything.


       
Welcome!  I also have a 13u, class of 2020.  There are starting to be a few of us now.  Hopefully we all enjoy our ride together!  75 off tee is really really good for a 2020.  What the number means is he has the physical bat speed to be a great hitter.  Now all the other particulars come into play.  As we have said before on this thread high bat speed does not.guarantee success but low bat speed guarantees failure.  So for example the 2020 kids who have an exit velocity of say 50 or 52 are going to find it really difficult to get the ball out if the infield on the 90ft diamond.  For states that use 54 their chances are a little better but still problematic.  Look forward to hearing about your son's progress!

I am an old, fat, out of shape, pitcher.  I have a current tee exit speed of 96 with wood.  Does that mean I'm ready to go to MLB as a position player?  No!  But I do use exit speed as ONE way to measure hitters because the other ways are subjective.  I do think that you have to have "good enough" exit speed, but faster doesn't always translate to better.

Originally Posted by ygpbb321:

       

I am an old, fat, out of shape, pitcher.  I have a current tee exit speed of 96 with wood.  Does that mean I'm ready to go to MLB as a position player?  No!  But I do use exit speed as ONE way to measure hitters because the other ways are subjective.  I do think that you have to have "good enough" exit speed, but faster doesn't always translate to better.


       
But you must agree there are minimums.  In pitchers language a guy who tops out at 83mph is not getting drafted.  Period.

Jolietboy - Heard a hilarious interview with Don Cooper on the radio the other day where he minimized some of the guys pitching in their organization's velocity.  He said give me a guy who throws strikes and changes speeds over a guy who throws hard every time.  

 

I will sit back and await the White Sox drafting my 78-83mph guys this June.  

Originally Posted by BCRockets:

       

Jolietboy - Heard a hilarious interview with Don Cooper on the radio the other day where he minimized some of the guys pitching in their organization's velocity.  He said give me a guy who throws strikes and changes speeds over a guy who throws hard every time.  

 

I will sit back and await the White Sox drafting my 78-83mph guys this June.  


       
Die hard sox fan.  Love coop.  And that seems to be a popular thing to say always but oddly enough the sox (with plenty of input from coop I am sure) keep going after mid 90's guys!  I also have a couple really good pitchers where I coach in that 78-83 range...  perhaps I should give coop a call!!

Good tips here, son worked on heavy bat, light bat etc.

17 years old (young senior)

recently at a pro workout  hit 93 wood

and then a showcase hit 95 mph with wood & an old metal bat,

highest anyone did at that winter Pro showcase was 100 mph.

Top ranked players there.

(line drive off tee)

 

Son's longest homerun distance measured to date 418 ft, (most  unmeasured, off school etc).

I would think some players scorching a double might be faster velo than some homeruns.

Wish the high school used the technology PG mentions, particularly on one that got out in a snap

(scouts there to see another older good player player quoted different speeds. under 2 seconds etc.)

 

PG might know this: Is there a technology / tool to measure Time to leave the field, cross the fence?

 

Another chart on this measure (time to leave park) would be very interesting to see.

 

 

Originally Posted by ADOLAN99MOM:

       

My son is 15 and a High School Sophmore he was just evualated by his travel team and had a Bat exit Speed of 88 MPH. He is a power hitter and big 6/1" 200#. Is this something that they take seriously at showcases?

 


       
Yes very seriously
Originally Posted by ADOLAN99MOM:

My son is 15 and a High School Sophmore he was just evualated by his travel team and had a Bat exit Speed of 88 MPH. He is a power hitter and big 6/1" 200#. Is this something that they take seriously at showcases?

 

 

It's only one piece of a larger puzzle.  A good piece, but it's what you do with it in games (along with many other skills) that will matter more.

 

And keep in mind that many showcases do not seek or record the exit velocity number, so how a player does in BP and games will be important.

 

 

I am no showcase expert but I would find it hard to believe there are showcases who don't look at exit velocity.   While PBR puts it up front in the basic profile PG does not that I can see but I would be pretty sure all of them have access to it.
Originally Posted by jolietboy:
I am no showcase expert but I would find it hard to believe there are showcases who don't look at exit velocity.   While PBR puts it up front in the basic profile PG does not that I can see but I would be pretty sure all of them have access to it.

 

Local PG ones do not and son has been to a few college ones, on and off campus, that have not.  Some others do and publicize it.  Many coaches and scouts can tell without seeing a radar gun though, which is why results are important.  

 

As I'm sure you have, I have seen a few that have the bat speed (and would have good exit velocity), but can't hit water if they fell out of a boat.  So the good exit velocity doesn't help them.  

 

No complaints on my guy, he's in a good spot with that.  Needs to continue working though, as they all do.

 

 

We've been told it is one piece of the puzzle. They want to see if it translates to distance and home runs. So far, so good in son's case.

Power is at a premium seems to be a common comment.

Can they hit an 85-90+ fastball? is another question they want answered.

 

Have to keep improving to compete and excel.

 

Sure, we've seen showcase kids who did not perform in games &/or tourneys.

90 across the diamond though 5+ feet over the 1st baseman's head also.

 

Good luck to all that have green fields now and to the rest of our sons waiting on a Thaw this spring

 

 

Refreshing this topic.  For you folks that have already been through the recruiting process/showcases, and exit velocity testing.  Am hoping for your thoughts.  Did you notice that some with not so good swings, had better exit velocities than those with a more solid swing?  Did you notice that a high exit velocity does not always translate into actual "game" power/performance?  I am just starting to see some of the kids we have played with over the years, beginning the showcase circuit.   We have known many of these kids, and how they perform in games, as many of you have known and seen as you went through this same process.  I see where some that struggle in games are getting high exit velocity ratings.  Not all, but some.  Conversely, some of the better "game" players (and better swing mechanics and approach) were not quite as high.  Curious as to how much stock the actual coaches put into this measurement.  My 2018 actually does okay with this (87 mph as a 2018), but is a couple MPH under some kids, that I would not have expected.  Size of the body seems to correlate to a higher exit speed for some, but not all.  Just curious.  Be gentle.  Thanks!

Ohio Dad: I think it's importance is really related to the position and type of hitter the player is.  A power hitter should have a higher bat speed.  Those with a higher bat speed (in a drill), may not shine in a game at the same showcase. I have seen many hitters in showcases swing from their heels in skills sets(home run derby-like) and go K-K-K in a game, especially with a number of showcases starting with a 1-1 count. Body size does seem to play a factor. Incidentally FWIW, when my son's D1 program measured bat speed/exit velocity on the entire team a week or two ago..the highest score was by a PO.

 

Ohio Dad posted:

Curious as to how much stock the actual coaches put into this measurement.  My 2018 actually does okay with this (87 mph as a 2018), but is a couple MPH under some kids, that I would not have expected.  

IMO, it means very little to them in the grand scheme of things. At most a high number might make them a little curious to take a look with their own eyes if they see that on a resume. Conversely, if they see a kid live and like his swing, they're not going to care if he has a low PBR number. 

It only Shows Raw batspeed, which of course helps but not if the swing is long and wide. Off a tee that long swing can produce high batspeed.

still of course high speed means that you have good physical ability just like a big fastball shows physical ability but doesn't mean you can pitch. Still all things being equal or course higher velo is better, even if you can't hit that well recruiters might believe they can still teach you to hit or pitch if the raw power is there. But at some point of course you have to prove that your tools transfer to game play.

Are you allowed to adjust the height of the tee at a showcase and if so would there be an optimal height ? Not sure if it would make of a difference. But if you can squeeze anything out of a small adjustment to the tee height seems worth it . Is it their natural swing height, a high meaty fastball height or something low ( I've read some of the highest exit velos are ground ball hits) . I know they want to make solid contact. So we will say all of the choices involve solid contact.

MidAtlanticDad posted:
Ohio Dad posted:

Curious as to how much stock the actual coaches put into this measurement.  My 2018 actually does okay with this (87 mph as a 2018), but is a couple MPH under some kids, that I would not have expected.  

IMO, it means very little to them in the grand scheme of things. At most a high number might make them a little curious to take a look with their own eyes if they see that on a resume. Conversely, if they see a kid live and like his swing, they're not going to care if he has a low PBR number. 

I think it matters a lot.  We have had this conversation before. A good exit cell does not guarantee success but a poor one just about guarantees failure. 87 is good enough if other things fall in line. Sort of like a 78mph pitcher.  Scouts are not interested. The 88mph guys meet the threshold but then are separated by other factors.  

ADOLAN99MOM posted:

My son is 15 and a High School Sophmore he was just evualated by his travel team and had a Bat exit Speed of 88 MPH. He is a power hitter and big 6/1" 200#. Is this something that they take seriously at showcases?

 

IT's a measurable that will get attention.  BUT, when they look at video they'll examine his fundamentals. Big kid, keep developing skill and improving athleticism.  Next test his how his swing holds up in a game against advanced pitching.  

For perspective: son has teammate (2018) who just hit 93 exit velo; impressive.  But zero approach at the plate, he lacks consistency of getting the ball in play with a good hard hit, he's always swinging for the fences.

Keep on working and having fun.

 

Agree...I've seen videos of kids hitting exit velos in the mid to high 90's but it is with a HUGE windup, leg kick, etc...definitely not an "In Game" swing...but then again, recruiters sometimes only see the number so i guess in the long run as long as you keep an In Game swing during BP and games, then the exit velo can be whatever it takes

 

FWIW, data from PG for 2016 regarding tee exit velocity:

2017 class in 2016: best was 104; average was 82

2018 class in 2016: best was 99; average was 80

2019 class in 2016: best was 95; average was 77

2020 class in 2016: best was 94; average was 75

2020dad posted: here is a link that may help.
 
http://www.efastball.com/hitti...-speed-by-age-group/
as others have stated high exit velocity does not guarantee success but low exit velocity does guarantee failure.  Bottom line on exit velo is you need to get that north of 90 mph for D1 baseball.  The chart is a little confusing but basically we are talking 90+ off a tee with a bbcor bat.  If you square the ball up at an astounding rate you may be able to get away with high 80's.  

Here's a kid, Nick Allen, who was drafted in the 3rd Round, with an 82 mph Exit Velocity https://www.perfectgame.org/Pl...ofile.aspx?ID=353981

It is always better to do better with measureables, but the "rules" aren't quite so cut & dry

3and2Fastball posted:
2020dad posted: here is a link that may help.
 
http://www.efastball.com/hitti...-speed-by-age-group/
as others have stated high exit velocity does not guarantee success but low exit velocity does guarantee failure.  Bottom line on exit velo is you need to get that north of 90 mph for D1 baseball.  The chart is a little confusing but basically we are talking 90+ off a tee with a bbcor bat.  If you square the ball up at an astounding rate you may be able to get away with high 80's.  

Here's a kid, Nick Allen, who was drafted in the 3rd Round, with an 82 mph Exit Velocity https://www.perfectgame.org/Pl...ofile.aspx?ID=353981

It is always better to do better with measureables, but the "rules" aren't quite so cut & dry

Nick Allen has a magical glove, strong arm, and great approach at the plate.

Update:  Nick Allen is hitting .208 with a .272 SLG through his first 100 At Bats as a 19 year old in A Ball.  That's OK though, a lot of 18 & 19 year olds struggle in that league (Midwest League) and it is just a small sample of AB's.   He is listed at 5'9" 155 pounds and perhaps the lack of ability to hit for power is one of the reasons why a kid projected to be a 1st Round pick by many slipped to the 3rd Round and is struggling now.

Nowadays the pros seem to want big power out of every position unless you are an absolutely elite Shortstop (which Nick Allen may turn out to be) and even then, many pro teams seems to be sacrificing some defense at short in order to get more pop out of that position.

Makes me wonder if a kid like Nick might've been better off playing in college for 3 years first and developing more strength?

From talking to a lot of scouts, recruiting coordinators and travel program directors, Exit Velocity isn't *that* big of a deal in comparing one player to another provided that the player reaches a minimum benchmark for exit velocity. 

If an athlete doesn't have at least a 90 mph Exit Velocity most pro scouts and D1's will write that player off as "not a prospect at this time", unless they bring something else elite to the table such as a 6.5 sixty or a 90+ mph arm or an incredibly slick glove.

And even low level D3's are looking for 85+ mph exit velos.

If a high school freshman or sophomore isn't hitting those benchmarks yet, that is OK it just shows they need to get into a dedicated strength program and keep working at it.

As mentioned earlier in this thread, you will see players who have the ability to consistently barrel up a ball with a great swing and will hit line drives into the outfield with just a 75-80mph exit velo.  The thing is, as they get higher up in the Baseball world, that lower exit velo swing will never work against pitchers throwing 90+.  The bat speed just isn't quick enough.

A kid who can consistently barrel up 75-83 mph fastballs for 275-300+ feet line drives, in games, with a 75-80mph exit velocity, who then through hard work over a few years gets to a 95+ exit velocity (at the very least 90 mph) while maintaining a great swing?  That is a recipe for success.

 

Perhaps I have missed this, but if a tee exit velocity were measured using a BPF 1.15 bat, is there a way to estimate what that swing would have registered using BBCOR and/or wood?

I see high exit velocities for 14u and below and I would estimate many of the players (based upon their throwing and pitching velocities) were using a 1.15 bat.  But soon they will have to use BBCOR.

Any help would be appreciated.

KYDAD2023,

From spending time in the HitTrax machine (and watching the younger coaches jostle to hit with our 13u kids' drop 5/1.15 bats), the difference in exit velo is 10 - 15 % faster for 1.15 bats off live batting practice. I'm guessing exit velo with 1.15 bats  is also 10% faster off the tee. 

Thank you, that seems consistent with what I have been seeing in researching data for my 2023 son.  I found it interesting that Perfect Game uses wood for tee exit velo and the average with wood (last I checked) was 74 for 2023's.  Yet so many tee exit velos at PBR (which allowed 1.15 for 14U) were in the 80's.  Obviously some will be above average, but what further interested me was that some 2022 kids had a much higher velo as a 14u than 1 year later as a 15u, and that made me think there had to be something to the transition to the BBCOR.  I don't know who was using what type of bat at these showcases, but I feel better that I have a true comparison rate of where my son needs to be and that my son's exit velo numbers as a 15u should be better due to using a BBCOR as a 14u at PBR.

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