How often do you allow your pitchers to determine their own catcher, assuming you have more than 1 catcher? (always, sometimes, never) If you allow this, how does it affect the batting lineup and team morale?
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Interesting question
Only in special situations do we allow the pitcher to select his catcher--for instance if the combo plays on the HS team together we like to see it happen with us
We mostly go by who does certain things better in relation to the guy on the mound---we have a kid who gets outs by throwing pitchers in the dirt thus he needs a catcher that can handle that type of pitch and not worry about wild pitches or passed balls
As for batting order it does not affect it
Morale ?---there is no way that this enters the picture
One other thing we like to do when we have it set up to work to pitchers in the game we like the catcher warming up the second pitcher to come in with him
Only in special situations do we allow the pitcher to select his catcher--for instance if the combo plays on the HS team together we like to see it happen with us
We mostly go by who does certain things better in relation to the guy on the mound---we have a kid who gets outs by throwing pitchers in the dirt thus he needs a catcher that can handle that type of pitch and not worry about wild pitches or passed balls
As for batting order it does not affect it
Morale ?---there is no way that this enters the picture
One other thing we like to do when we have it set up to work to pitchers in the game we like the catcher warming up the second pitcher to come in with him
Most of us in 'non-select' situations (ie hs, legion, etc) have one catcher that is the best one on the team. He won't catch all the games but he's going to get the lion's share of work. Or, we have a situation where we don't really have a good catcher and then 2 or 3 guys have to share the load and you just hope for the best.
as for the morale issue; i have seen this happen when you have a rising young player; let's say you've got a sophomore catcher who is surpassing your senior catcher but the senior pitcher wants to throw to his buddy...
as for the morale issue; i have seen this happen when you have a rising young player; let's say you've got a sophomore catcher who is surpassing your senior catcher but the senior pitcher wants to throw to his buddy...
Re Morale: I know it probably shouldn't be an issue. I wondered if it might affect the morale in cases where pitchers were always allowed to choose, there is more than one catcher, and the pitchers choose based on something like friendship or personality, excluding other catchers from playing. (Assuming equal skills.) Seems it might have an affect in cases like that, but that probably is something coaches would have a handle on and not allow?
(Trojan, this is what I was getting at. Posted before reading yours.) I wonder also if never getting to choose the catcher would affect pitching morale.
(Trojan, this is what I was getting at. Posted before reading yours.) I wonder also if never getting to choose the catcher would affect pitching morale.
Well, my son pitched and I think it can work both ways. I think that pitchers absolutely work better with some catchers than others. It's not necessarily an insult to the unwanted pitcher. Sometimes, a coach can see something in a catcher though that a pitcher can't. Bottomline however, it's important that a pitcher be able to trust that guy back there and make music together (how I always look at it). A good duo is an amazing thing to watch.
Again, I think it should be encouraged and allowed. I don't see a pitcher picking a catcher based on friendship - not beyond LL anyway. They want to be successful.... or the good ones do.
Again, I think it should be encouraged and allowed. I don't see a pitcher picking a catcher based on friendship - not beyond LL anyway. They want to be successful.... or the good ones do.
I'm not saying it's based on just friendship as much as it is the kids' perceptions. I see them as players; SOME seniors do not see an underclassman as capable. Who could even guess what their presumptions are based on?
Of course the good ones are in it to win it... but even some of those good ones have thoughts or attitudes that are not exemplary (you work with people who you wonder if they are on your team or not don't you??)
Of course the good ones are in it to win it... but even some of those good ones have thoughts or attitudes that are not exemplary (you work with people who you wonder if they are on your team or not don't you??)
Lafmom, I tend to agree with trojan. In some cases, young men can be very forgiving to the shortcomings of friends/buddies and have perceptions of others that are skewed or not as objective as a coach's evaluation might be. This isn't something that ends in LL, imo. There can be a lot of loyalty built into the perceptions and allowances made for friends on a team (or in an office among adults for that matter)...
I guess if a coach sees this happening or believes this is the case, he would probably step in somehow, or stop allowing pitchers to choose.
I guess if a coach sees this happening or believes this is the case, he would probably step in somehow, or stop allowing pitchers to choose.
quillgirl, I do believe that a good coach can and would recognize a pitcher's ability to decide which catcher he wants. Otherwise, he'd never allow the pitcher to chose. I think it's important that a pitcher be able to have the skill to work with whomever is put behind the plate, but I think it's also important that he have confidence in that guy.
Can see it from both sides, and again one of the best things in baseball you can observe is pitcher and catcher being on the same wavelength. That chemistry is magical!!
Can see it from both sides, and again one of the best things in baseball you can observe is pitcher and catcher being on the same wavelength. That chemistry is magical!!
quote:Originally posted by quillgirl:
Lafmom, I tend to agree with trojan. In some cases, young men can be very forgiving to the shortcomings of friends/buddies and have perceptions of others that are skewed or not as objective as a coach's evaluation might be. This isn't something that ends in LL, imo. There can be a lot of loyalty built into the perceptions and allowances made for friends on a team (or in an office among adults for that matter)...
I guess if a coach sees this happening or believes this is the case, he would probably step in somehow, or stop allowing pitchers to choose.
Quillgirl,
A pitcher is only as good as his catcher, so why would a pitcher trying to get to the next level or get noticed, prefer someone just based on friendship?
My son was always hard to catch, and he had his preferences, but the catcher who always caught him on any team was the best catcher on the team, same for every pitcher, barring a day off or injury.
The best catcher on the team is not necessarily the best hitter either, in many cases.
TPM, I was responding to Trojan's post in which he said he had seen this happen. Why would a pitcher choose a catcher simply out of friendship? Loyalty to a friend. Personal dislike of someone else. Comfort with the status quo and fear of trying someone new. I guess there a plenty of reasons. Not all kids are rational, objective, or unemotional in their decisions and choices. Maybe they should be, but I'll bet not all are.
Love the one you're with.
Quillgirl, very good question about pitcher/catcher relationship. Our son's team has two catchers, he is the older of the two and taller. The JC pitcher we have really likes having our son catch for him and he seems to do better. On this team the catcher calls the game, new for our son but evidently he is doing well after all he was a pitcher too. And the other side of the coin, catchers like pitchers that throw close to the strike zone and don't pitch too many dirt balls. I wonder if teams keep track of win/loss according to catcher?
I never consulting the players on who should start at catcher. In college and beyond, and most High Schools, I think you will find that the better hitting catcher will always play so they batting lineup won't change! However, one catcher can't handle all of the games so some catchers maybe set up with particular pitchers depending upon their respective abilities.
They keep track of everything...at least in college and beyond.
If a pitcher was able to pick his catcher, I would think they would select the one that best catches him. If friend favoritism figured into the equation, it would be because a catcher had a history of catching that particular pitcher not becasue they were good buds. Parents seem to be more concerned with being politically correct, not hurting feelings etc. than the kids.
quote:Originally posted by puma1:
If a pitcher was able to pick his catcher, I would think they would select the one that best catches him. If friend favoritism figured into the equation, it would be because a catcher had a history of catching that particular pitcher not becasue they were good buds. Parents seem to be more concerned with being politically correct, not hurting feelings etc. than the kids.
Puma nailed it and the point I was trying to make. Any pitcher (HS or beyond) really trying to perform at his best and given a choice will pick the catcher who does the best job with him.
If it's purely for friendship sake, he's not real serious about his game.
JMO.
"I want Gus."
Billy Chapel (Kevin Costner) in the movie For Love of the Game
Billy Chapel (Kevin Costner) in the movie For Love of the Game
First hand experience on this one. Soph yr in HS for my C son, on V team. 2 Cs (a Sr who really was not a C, and a Jr who was) on the team ahead of mine. Coach asked #1 pitcher (a Sr) who he wanted to catch him, #1 Sr pitcher picked my guy - said it did not matter that my son was a only a Soph.
I guess the coach agreed with the Sr's pick, because my son got the job. Yes, the other guys (and their parents) were upset at first, but the coach found good spots for them to play, and that made it better for the whole team.
Bottom line, agree with Puma and TPM on this one.
I guess the coach agreed with the Sr's pick, because my son got the job. Yes, the other guys (and their parents) were upset at first, but the coach found good spots for them to play, and that made it better for the whole team.
Bottom line, agree with Puma and TPM on this one.
I am never going to ask a pitcher who he would rather have catch him. I am just going to make out the line up and go with it. If a pitcher comes to me and requests that a certain guy catches him I want him to tell me why he wants that guy to catch him. And I am going to honor that request.
There are certain pitchers that want the same catcher everytime out and they get comfortable with that guy and build a chemistry. Some pitchers could careless and dont care who catches them as long as they are a quality guy back there.
There are certain pitchers that want the same catcher everytime out and they get comfortable with that guy and build a chemistry. Some pitchers could careless and dont care who catches them as long as they are a quality guy back there.
I'm with Coach May on this. I'm going to make out a lineup based on who I think helps us best. When a high school kid can prove to me through a good discussion of who should catch him then I will listen but I still have final say.
If a player is ticked off to where it hurts morale because he doesn't have so and so catching him then he's probably already a terrible team mate to begin with. The fact he lets a decision like this affect his performance shows how mentally weak and selfish he is to begin with.
If a player is ticked off to where it hurts morale because he doesn't have so and so catching him then he's probably already a terrible team mate to begin with. The fact he lets a decision like this affect his performance shows how mentally weak and selfish he is to begin with.