If you have a player who is hitting well and you "think' you see a flaw in his swing do you try to change him.
I am a "if it ain't broke don't mess with it" kind of guy
How about you?
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quote:Originally posted by TRhit:
If you have a player who is hitting well and you "think' you see a flaw in his swing do you try to change him.
I am a "if it ain't broke don't mess with it" kind of guy
How about you?
Ditto! Only thing would be if he got in a mini slump, that would be the first thing I would do to try to fix it. That way he may not object to the change. Bottom line though, is that if he's still hitting the top pitchers, it may not be an important flaw for his swing or athletic ability. JMO
2,3,5,10 years early, how does he feelyou knew there was a flaw and didn't tell him.
Will you still as he struggles to make the changes? result in some losses that would have been wins?
Or will you "pick em clean, quick"? Dump him for the next make you look smart.
Will you still as he struggles to make the changes? result in some losses that would have been wins?
Or will you "pick em clean, quick"? Dump him for the next make you look smart.
Chameleon, you make a valid point....
mic
Mark Grace has the best advice to get out of slumps, but I have not tried it yet.
quote:Ditto! Only thing would be if he got in a mini slump, that would be the first thing I would do to try to fix it.
Mark Grace has the best advice to get out of slumps, but I have not tried it yet.
quote:but I have not tried it yet.
Me neither, as my wife probably would not approve!
The cyberspace twins speak inanely once again from their garage training facilities---
Who is talking trophies?
I asked a simple question and I still say that if it aint broke you dont try and fix it until it need to be fixed but then you cyberspace twins have all the answers, or at least you think you do.
I know who we coach but you two have yet to inform anyone who you teach/coach / Isnt that a bit weird?
Perhaps none exist other than in your cyberspace minds
Who is talking trophies?
I asked a simple question and I still say that if it aint broke you dont try and fix it until it need to be fixed but then you cyberspace twins have all the answers, or at least you think you do.
I know who we coach but you two have yet to inform anyone who you teach/coach / Isnt that a bit weird?
Perhaps none exist other than in your cyberspace minds
let's face it, this whole thread was started with the last post in mind. Another opportunity for you to bash BlueDog and Chameleon. It has become obvious watching it over the past couple of years, and has a certain pettiness about it. You should hold yourself to a higher standard where you're not picking fights when uprovoked.
TR, do you teach hitting? Or, just run a program to recruit players and enter them in tourneys. (Admittedly, you do bring value in what you do for players in recruiting and obtaining exposure)
My guess is you don't teach any aspect of the game itself. So cut those guys some slack. They bring a lot to the table in the conversation of hitting.
And please don't use the argument that hitting can't be taught over the internet. Information can be explained for a coach/player to have a better understanding on something that is then worked on by the player.
You are good at what you do. But, that is not on the instructional aspect of the game.
That being said, because a hitter is hitting at the level he is at, why wait to until he fails at a higher level to teach him higher level hitting.
I recall PGStaff commenting on his own son in a thread. I may not be exactly correct in all the details, but, the point of it was his son was hitting, and had always hit. PG felt that the swing had some issues, but why mess with it. That particular son eventually reached a level where that swing wasn't working as well. I beleve PG commented on how he felt he should have addressed it earlier, even though the swing was working at that level. I also believe he commented that it was difficult to re-teach the hitting after years of having that swing ingrained in him.
The point being, competition at each step is increasingly competitive. The patience time frame gets reduced at each level.
Why not fix flaws now, instead of waiting until the player fails? The coach that lets it continue is doing an injustice to the player.
TR, do you teach hitting? Or, just run a program to recruit players and enter them in tourneys. (Admittedly, you do bring value in what you do for players in recruiting and obtaining exposure)
My guess is you don't teach any aspect of the game itself. So cut those guys some slack. They bring a lot to the table in the conversation of hitting.
And please don't use the argument that hitting can't be taught over the internet. Information can be explained for a coach/player to have a better understanding on something that is then worked on by the player.
You are good at what you do. But, that is not on the instructional aspect of the game.
That being said, because a hitter is hitting at the level he is at, why wait to until he fails at a higher level to teach him higher level hitting.
I recall PGStaff commenting on his own son in a thread. I may not be exactly correct in all the details, but, the point of it was his son was hitting, and had always hit. PG felt that the swing had some issues, but why mess with it. That particular son eventually reached a level where that swing wasn't working as well. I beleve PG commented on how he felt he should have addressed it earlier, even though the swing was working at that level. I also believe he commented that it was difficult to re-teach the hitting after years of having that swing ingrained in him.
The point being, competition at each step is increasingly competitive. The patience time frame gets reduced at each level.
Why not fix flaws now, instead of waiting until the player fails? The coach that lets it continue is doing an injustice to the player.
noreast
YOU ARE SO OFF BASE IT IS PITIFUL !!!! Don't guess or assume anything about anyone because 9 out of 10 times you will be wrong
I have talked with many coaches about this and
was interested in what the people on this site thought---I don't need to bash them as they do it for themselves---then came at me if you will notice--if they want to throw barbs I will defend myself anytime they or anyone else jumps in my face, including you
No, I am not a "hitting teacher" such as they claim to be but I/WE instruct our players as we coach them and try to improve their game. Perhaps I might know more about playing the game than you might think I do. We work in "real" time, not cyberspace, because I truly believe that you can discuss on the internet but not teach/instruct--- instructing in baseball is one on one in "real" time but then they call me "old school"---
Sorry that you interpreted my original post as you did BUT you are off base !!!
YOU ARE SO OFF BASE IT IS PITIFUL !!!! Don't guess or assume anything about anyone because 9 out of 10 times you will be wrong
I have talked with many coaches about this and
was interested in what the people on this site thought---I don't need to bash them as they do it for themselves---then came at me if you will notice--if they want to throw barbs I will defend myself anytime they or anyone else jumps in my face, including you
No, I am not a "hitting teacher" such as they claim to be but I/WE instruct our players as we coach them and try to improve their game. Perhaps I might know more about playing the game than you might think I do. We work in "real" time, not cyberspace, because I truly believe that you can discuss on the internet but not teach/instruct--- instructing in baseball is one on one in "real" time but then they call me "old school"---
Sorry that you interpreted my original post as you did BUT you are off base !!!
If it works , don't fix it.
If a player can hit a ball pitched at the level he is playing and have success, then leave it alone.
As the competition gets better or the pitch speed increases, then tweaking is in order. Tweaking can be anything from better posture in the stance, to shortening the swing.
I have always believed that we have to teach mechanics first, timing second and hitting for the desired result third.
Just as you can't teach speed, you can't teach bat speed. Batters will eventually reach the point where they can't get the bat in the zone fast enough to make contact. All the tweaking in the world will not increase bat speed beyond the physical capability of the batter.
If a player can hit a ball pitched at the level he is playing and have success, then leave it alone.
As the competition gets better or the pitch speed increases, then tweaking is in order. Tweaking can be anything from better posture in the stance, to shortening the swing.
I have always believed that we have to teach mechanics first, timing second and hitting for the desired result third.
Just as you can't teach speed, you can't teach bat speed. Batters will eventually reach the point where they can't get the bat in the zone fast enough to make contact. All the tweaking in the world will not increase bat speed beyond the physical capability of the batter.
quincy, I agree with the order that you teach. However the batspeed part I disagree with for one reason. You can teach and increase batspeed, no I realize that we can't make someone have the batspeed of say Albert Pujhols. But we can increase it with proper weight training and also over and underload programs.
In my view, that would be tweaking.
We all hit the wall at some point. The ones who still have room before the wall will usually be successful.
Foot speed and bat speed are within us at birth. We can develop one or both, but there will be a finite point where our bodies cannot go beyond.
We all hit the wall at some point. The ones who still have room before the wall will usually be successful.
Foot speed and bat speed are within us at birth. We can develop one or both, but there will be a finite point where our bodies cannot go beyond.
My main question is if he is hitting, is it really a flaw? I understand that as pitching gets better,the hitters must get better and have good mechanics to hit but each person is different.
You haven't said what the "flaw" was so the above statement is just thrown out there.
My observation is that you are NOT a hitting instructor so imo,YOU should't try to change something that is working.I understand you probably do know quite a bit about hitting but that isn't your area of expertise.
If you truly feel he would gain from a change,then inform him what you think he is doing and what you think needs to be done but tell him to get a hitting instructor to fix it, if in fact he wants to take his hitting to the next level.If he does,he will take the neccessary steps to make it happen,if he doesn't,then there is no reason to waist your time.
You haven't said what the "flaw" was so the above statement is just thrown out there.
My observation is that you are NOT a hitting instructor so imo,YOU should't try to change something that is working.I understand you probably do know quite a bit about hitting but that isn't your area of expertise.
If you truly feel he would gain from a change,then inform him what you think he is doing and what you think needs to be done but tell him to get a hitting instructor to fix it, if in fact he wants to take his hitting to the next level.If he does,he will take the neccessary steps to make it happen,if he doesn't,then there is no reason to waist your time.
tfox
A few things here
First I asked a simple question looking for responses---some respond and other throw darts
Second
I said I was not a "hitting instructor"---never made that claim--much rather "coach" our players as we progress
Third---I wont get into the semantics with the "Cyberspace Cowboys" ---As I have said, read my posts, I work with out kids one on one in "real life" not on a website but during the games, before and after as does our staff. Perhaps in this day and age of the Cyberspace Guru is seems absurd to you but that is our way and it work
A few things here
First I asked a simple question looking for responses---some respond and other throw darts
Second
I said I was not a "hitting instructor"---never made that claim--much rather "coach" our players as we progress
Third---I wont get into the semantics with the "Cyberspace Cowboys" ---As I have said, read my posts, I work with out kids one on one in "real life" not on a website but during the games, before and after as does our staff. Perhaps in this day and age of the Cyberspace Guru is seems absurd to you but that is our way and it work
Tfox, you nailed it......... 
The great thing about discussions pertaining to hitting on here is, you can take the information being presented, trial-and-error it yourself and make a very educated decision on it's worthiness to you, or lack thereof......
The great thing about discussions pertaining to hitting on here is, you can take the information being presented, trial-and-error it yourself and make a very educated decision on it's worthiness to you, or lack thereof......
I think you completely misunderstood my response.I think you are so ready to fight that you completely overlooked the response.
If the kid wants to get better,point him in the direction to get better.He will make the decision.
That was all I was saying.
I agree,it won't happen on the internet.
If you are not a hitting instructor(hitting teacher),which YOU STATED,then point him where he needs to go IF HE WANTS TO GET BETTER.
If the kid wants to get better,point him in the direction to get better.He will make the decision.
That was all I was saying.
I agree,it won't happen on the internet.
If you are not a hitting instructor(hitting teacher),which YOU STATED,then point him where he needs to go IF HE WANTS TO GET BETTER.
I’m not sure about many things, but one thing I am fairly sure about is that everything an athlete does can be improved. And that improvement can involve teaching. That includes bat speed and running speed. It amazes me how many do not run efficiently or swing the bat efficiently or throw efficiently. We see them every day we watch players. And some of the players who do these things incorrectly are very successful at the level they play at now. Yet, they could all improve. Should they?
IMO, I think there is something to be said about “if it aint broke don’t fix it”! There’s also something to say about “if it works, don’t fix it”!
How well does it work? What if it is broke but it’s also working right now. What if your car is running fine, low on oil? What if your faulty parachute still opens? What if you don’t know how to fight but you can beat up all the little kids in the neighborhood? What if you can’t see very well but still hit over .500 with a bunch of home runs in the little league? Do we send you to the eye doctor or wait till you quit hitting?
I’m not a big believer in changing what’s working, but if I see a young one eyed hitter whose hitting the heck out of youth pitching, I’m going to help him become a two eyed hitter, (Unless he’s only got one eye) rather than watch certain failure when he gets at a higher level. Same goes for other things that sooner or later just can’t work.
There have been hitters who are among the best ever who could be considered untraditional or different. But there are some things all the great ones do similarly and there’s other things that simply will not work at the higher levels. If these are not changed the hitter just accumulates and practices the bad habit over and over. The more established the habit becomes the harder it is to change. Allowing players to do things wrong over and over has probably cut short many future possibilities. If a hitter has excellent “natural” hitting ability but does one of those things that simply won’t work at a higher level, I would try to help him and if he can hit he will still hit. Not talking about “style”, here. The young kid who learns correctly from day I has a nice advantage.
We can always say we are going to wait and find out if and when he fails or we can try to do something about it. We all know that getting by with things when we were young and not preparing for the future has a low success rate. The odds of someone getting a college education or having a chance at professional baseball are minimal. Why not try to arm someone with as much ammo as you can? If he’s a natural, he’s going to have a good chance anyway. If he’s not he needs all the help he can get. It’s not how good you are at 13 or 14 years old. It’s how good will you be when you’re 17-18 and older.
That said, I do think there are too many times a player is changed when it’s not a necessity. This even happens in pro ball some times. The hitter becomes uncomfortable and his performance can suffer. To me, the very best instructors are those who can make changes and adjustments while allowing the player to be comfortable with those changes. The better the player the quicker these adjustments take place.
IMO, I think there is something to be said about “if it aint broke don’t fix it”! There’s also something to say about “if it works, don’t fix it”!
How well does it work? What if it is broke but it’s also working right now. What if your car is running fine, low on oil? What if your faulty parachute still opens? What if you don’t know how to fight but you can beat up all the little kids in the neighborhood? What if you can’t see very well but still hit over .500 with a bunch of home runs in the little league? Do we send you to the eye doctor or wait till you quit hitting?
I’m not a big believer in changing what’s working, but if I see a young one eyed hitter whose hitting the heck out of youth pitching, I’m going to help him become a two eyed hitter, (Unless he’s only got one eye) rather than watch certain failure when he gets at a higher level. Same goes for other things that sooner or later just can’t work.
There have been hitters who are among the best ever who could be considered untraditional or different. But there are some things all the great ones do similarly and there’s other things that simply will not work at the higher levels. If these are not changed the hitter just accumulates and practices the bad habit over and over. The more established the habit becomes the harder it is to change. Allowing players to do things wrong over and over has probably cut short many future possibilities. If a hitter has excellent “natural” hitting ability but does one of those things that simply won’t work at a higher level, I would try to help him and if he can hit he will still hit. Not talking about “style”, here. The young kid who learns correctly from day I has a nice advantage.
We can always say we are going to wait and find out if and when he fails or we can try to do something about it. We all know that getting by with things when we were young and not preparing for the future has a low success rate. The odds of someone getting a college education or having a chance at professional baseball are minimal. Why not try to arm someone with as much ammo as you can? If he’s a natural, he’s going to have a good chance anyway. If he’s not he needs all the help he can get. It’s not how good you are at 13 or 14 years old. It’s how good will you be when you’re 17-18 and older.
That said, I do think there are too many times a player is changed when it’s not a necessity. This even happens in pro ball some times. The hitter becomes uncomfortable and his performance can suffer. To me, the very best instructors are those who can make changes and adjustments while allowing the player to be comfortable with those changes. The better the player the quicker these adjustments take place.
quote:Originally posted by PGStaff:
That said, I do think there are too many times a player is changed when it’s not a necessity. This even happens in pro ball some times. The hitter becomes uncomfortable and his performance can suffer. To me, the very best instructors are those who can make changes and adjustments while allowing the player to be comfortable with those changes. The better the player the quicker these adjustments take place.
That was what I was trying to point out when I suggested he point him in the right direction with a hitting instructor.
They are dedicated to that goal of teaching hitting and are better prepared to fix a perceived problem.
Not pointing out a specific 'flaw' does not detract from the discussion.
What one person may see as a 'flaw', may be a timing move.
I have never seen it as reasonable to eliminate all 'flaws' or quirks from a successful hitter.
What benefit would a Little League batter gain if he has a major league swing at his level of play?
What adjustments would be there to make when the level of competition increases?
How does a fine tuned swing for a 70 mph pitch adjust to high 80's or 90's?
If raw talent and natural ability is enough to excell, why tamper with anything?
If that stride is okay to nail a 90 mph pitch, a shorter stride will allow that batter to the hit the 100 mph.
Sometimes it isn't 'what' one teaches, but 'when' they teach it.
What one person may see as a 'flaw', may be a timing move.
I have never seen it as reasonable to eliminate all 'flaws' or quirks from a successful hitter.
What benefit would a Little League batter gain if he has a major league swing at his level of play?
What adjustments would be there to make when the level of competition increases?
How does a fine tuned swing for a 70 mph pitch adjust to high 80's or 90's?
If raw talent and natural ability is enough to excell, why tamper with anything?
If that stride is okay to nail a 90 mph pitch, a shorter stride will allow that batter to the hit the 100 mph.
Sometimes it isn't 'what' one teaches, but 'when' they teach it.
quote:The better the player the quicker these adjustments take place.
PG's whole post was excellent.......Easy to see that PG has mucho experience working with players..
The above quote from that post tells me all I need to know about PG's ability to help players.....Along with the fact that he completely understands that ALL hitters on ALL levels struggle with better than average speed pitching when hitting......
I want to say something that is absolutely true that I learned working with hitters.....Anytime you ask a hitter to give something new a chance, you can tell right away who the better hitters will be out of the bunch.......The better ones will not be apprehensive and will aggressively give it a try......They want to know if it will help them, or not.......The others will reluctantly give it somewhat of a weak effort.....
