question on awarding RBI

Woodie you are right on. Batters get the RBIs no matter how the runner(s) got on base. It's pretty simple. Statistics credit INDIVIDUAL accomplishment during isolated instances. If a catcher throws out a runner that got on base because of an error, the catcher still gets the credit for the "caught stealing". The runner that gets on base because of an error can still get credit for stolen bases or runs scored.
Fungo

ty Fungo. I kinda thought I knew but was just confusing myself. I looked it up in the OBR regarding scoring and it was not real clear..or course it was almost midnight... and I had been staring at the numbers from several games for a couple hours at that point! They were all starting to run together. I was about to give the cheering dug out and the 3rd base coach credit for RBI's as well... I was starting to feel real generous!

RBI's cannot be credited to a batter on an error. But your situation DOES credit the batter with RBI's because his grand slam did not include an error (which would be impossible of course). Fungo is correct. Pitchers on the other hand would get credit for earned runs of which were ONLY legitimate "reaches" ... that is they reached base by an instance of NON-ERROR.

Here are a few things to consider:

1. Regarding the statement "RBI's cannot be credited to a batter on an error"... the rulebook states otherwise.


OBR 10.04A(A): "(2) Credit a run batted in for the run scored when, before two are out, an error is made on a play on which a runner from third base ordinarily would score."


2. On the "earned runs" issue -- the posted scenario seems to be this:
A. single
B. reach by error (should have been out #1)
C. fly out (should have been out #2)
D. reach by error (should have been out #3)
E. home run

OBR 10.18: "In determining earned runs, the inning should be reconstructed without the errors ..." So in this scenario, I would score all 4 runs as being unearned -- for both the team and the pitcher.

Interestingly enough, "In some instances, runs charged as earned against the relief pitcher can be charged as unearned against the team."

So if there had there been a pitching change between D and E above, the new pitcher would have been charged with one earned run (while all 4 are still unearned for the team).

quote:

Originally posted by RPD:
Here are a few things to consider:

1. Regarding the statement "RBI's cannot be credited to a batter on an error"... the rulebook states otherwise.


OBR 10.04A(A): "(2) Credit a run batted in for the run scored when, before two are out, an error is made on a play on which a runner from third base ordinarily would score."

So you are saying that you give a batter an RBI on an error only with less than two outs??? Ok, so this scenario doesn't count. 2 outs, runner at 3rd, batter hits to 3rd base, bobble, throw to home too late....Error on 3rd baseman, runner scores (still two outs), but RBI is NOT credited in this instance??? But SAME scenario, with 1 out, and batter IS credited for the RBI????? Is this what you are saying??

Switchitter: An RBI is awarded on an error only if, in the scorer's judgement, the run would have scored on that play anyway. If the run would not have scored without the error, the hitter does not get an RBI. Examples:

-No outs or one out, runner on third and outfielder drops what would otherwise be a sacrifice fly. The hitter gets an RBI, is NOT charged with an at-bat, gets credit for a sac fly, and reaches first on the error. The run from third base is earned (depending on how he got there); if the hitter eventually scores, his run is unearned.

-No outs or one out, runner on third, corners in, middle infielders back and 2B boots groundball. If scorer feels the runner would have scored anyway because 2B was playing back, the hitter gets RBI, but IS charged with an at-bat and reaches on an error. Run from third base is earned. Hitter on first base would be unearned if he later scores. (If the same thing happened except the groundball was to the 3B playing in, scorer might rule no RBI because the runner may not have scored without the error. Scorer's judgement.)

-Suicide squeeze bunt. Runner scores from third and fielder throws the ball away so hitter is safe at first. Scorer determines that the bunt was good enough to score the run regardless of what happened to the throw at first base. Hitter gets RBI, is not charged with an AB, gets credit for a sacrifice, and reaches on error.

Thanks TOM M that is a great explanation. I remember hearing a guy once tell me (looked like a coach and was emphatic about it) that RBI's don't count on errors. but you have proved him wrong. Shows how much he knew to start with I guess.

But he acted all holy and stuff about baseball like he knew it like the back of his hand.