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Rating the Summer College Leagues

Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
I had a friend ask me the other day which summer leagues were considered better, or tougher, than others, and I really had no idea how to answer.

Would anyone here be willing to take a stab?

I know the Cape Cod League still rules the roost, but after that?

There must be 20 of these out there now. How do you decide which one is best for you?
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Moc1Moc1500+ posts
Hi Midlo Dad, frankly the collegiate leagues, in my opinion, are becoming very competitive with the talent levels pretty much leveling out all across the country. The old thought is that the Cape league has the most talent top to bottom and this is where the majority of the scouts go to check on "top" prospects. However, colleges are sending their players all over the country now including Alaska and Hawaii and the top teams are pretty much competitve with top teams from all over.

Example, Vienna,Va of the Clark Griffith league was "ranked" #1 in mid-July and they decided to play an exhibition double header with Waynesboro and Luray of the Valley League. They lost both games-first was close in extra innings, but the second game they were trounced. They played in the ABC World Series in Wichita,Ks and picked up the top hitter in the Valley League to join them(Tyler Townsend) and they finshed 9th out of 44 teams. I was at the tournament and saw most of the teams play. The Jayhawk league was well represented as well as the Alaskan league. This summer I also saw a number of teams from the Valley and the Florida Collegiate leagues as well. All the top teams could compete in any league in the country. I think once you get past the top 3-4 teams in the leagues the talent starts to dwindle and this is where the Cape may have the upper hand. Honestly, the most important things to look for are playing time and a good host family. Baseball is baseball, if you're not playing it doesn't make any difference how good the league is.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
My friend's son has been given 3 choices, hence the question.

JD, thanks, I thought I'd seen something somewhere at one time but when I went back through the BA and PGX web sites I couldn't find it.

Unfortunately PGX is down right now for some reason, but I'll check again tomorrow.


JMO, but I would chose a league that the player and parents feel are a good fit for the player. Although some don't feel it's necessary, we enjoyed having our son housed with a host family, some teams do not offer that option. We also liked that the team son was on preferred that you have a part time job (easy) and curfew.
A player heading into his junior year (that has a choice) seriously wanting to play at the next level should chose the league that is the most competitive from top to bottom. Some leagues "stack" teams, that is why you will find maybe 3-4, as Moc states, that will dominate.

Playing time is important for players that have not had a lot of playing time, pitchers should be careful if they have put in significant time and that their pitching coaches give limits and that they are followed.

JMO.
Midlo DadMidlo Dad10,000+ posts
Found that info JD referenced on PGX, thanks.

Putting it together, it looks like this:

Group 1 (top): Cape Cod was the only league in this grouping.

Group 2 (next to top): 8 leagues including Alaska, California, Coastal Plain, Great Lakes, New England, Northwoods, Texas, Valley and West Coast. (Note that these are in alphabetical order, so no info is provided as to how to rank among these 8.)

Group 3: 8 leagues including Atlantic, Ripken, Central Illinois, Clark Griffith, Florida, Jayhawk, MINK, and New York.

Group 4: 4 leagues including Great South, Hawaii, Mountain, and Southern.

Two leagues, Kitty and Sierra, were not ranked. Not sure why but I'm guessing that makes them "Group 5".

At the risk of answering my own question, maybe this will help others as well.
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Midlo Dad:
My friend's son has been given 3 choices, hence the question.

JD, thanks, I thought I'd seen something somewhere at one time but when I went back through the BA and PGX web sites I couldn't find it.

Unfortunately PGX is down right now for some reason, but I'll check again tomorrow.


If given a choice by the coach it will generally be for teams that teamates may have played on in previous summers. The best approach is to ask the teamates what they thought of the team from the previous year i.e. did they like the coaches the facitlites, playing opportunities, the living situation, was the pitching in the league good.... You don't want to end up in a situation that your son won't enjoy even if its the best league......
J JT1,000+ posts
Here is a link to an article BBA posted a couple of years ago rating the summer leagues.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/college/features/262310.html

I think the biggest thing is finding a league that FITS the player. Certainly, a D1 player from a major school will have his choice, while players from D2/D3 schools may want to really check the rosters, see how many small school players are on the teams, and how many of those guys actually get substantial playing time.
Last edited by JT
ILVBBILVBB1,000+ posts
My son has played in two of the better known leagues the last 2 summers. The first year he had a great experience, last summer, it stunk!

Not all teams and leagues are the same. My advice to parents that are funding your son, do your due dilligence. Learn about the league and the team.

His first summer, great experience, first rate baseball, affordable. Last summer, expensive, marginal baseball, dishonest organization, so-so league.

College coaches don't always know the in's and out's of each placement. If your son wants to go, someone ought to do a certain level of due dilligence.
Last edited by ILVBB
M Michael'sDad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
Good article on some comparisons between Northwoods and Cape leagues.

http://dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/2008/aug/11/cape-cod-an...-inspire-strength-b/


A good article and very accurate on the Northwoods from what I have heard. A good friend of my son played in the Northwoods (actually lead that league in batting average this summer) and from what he told me, this article describes it very well. Pretty much like the minors without pay. Of course, less talent that the minors but very competitive for collegiate players. Long bus rides, stays in hotels/motels, long boring periods and so on.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by ILVBB:
College coaches don't always know the in's and out's of each placement. If your son wants to go, someone ought to do a certain level of due dilligence.[QUOTE]

A very true statement about placement. My son was placed early last Fall by his coach in what ended up being a great placement for him. However, I spent months worrying about it because a couple of friends of his had been placed previously - by their dads and one other coach - and their experience was very poor with big rosters, limited playing time, revolving rosters, and one league that even folded. If you're paying, do as much as you can, as early as you can to get information.
Last edited by Michael'sDad
FungoFungoHighly Regarded and Beloved Old Timer
quote:
As a newbie with a college freshman who will be placed by his school, what can I expect cost-wise next summer(fees, travel costs, room, board, etc.)? Does this vary from league to league?


Have no idea how they all are but my son played at the Cape and the cost was minimal. Travel to and from the Cape was paid for (not sure if the college or the Cape paid that), He had host family @ $50.00 per week (some didn't charge - his did). Meals were the biggest expense even though the host family provided a lot of food, the players they usually bypassed the host family for eating out. The Cape also provided part-time jobs for the players. Mine worked weighing chickens in the meat dept. of the "Star Market". He wasn't given a choice where to play.
M Michael'sDad100+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:
As a newbie with a college freshman who will be placed by his school, what can I expect cost-wise next summer(fees, travel costs, room, board, etc.)? Does this vary from league to league?


It varys from league to league and sometimes from team to team inside the league. My son was a FR playing in the Great Lakes this past summer. His coach placed him and did not give him any other options. His team put him, with three other roomies, up in an apartment for the summer at no cost other than a deposit. They also provided all transportation to and from games but did not provide transportation to the home teams location from his home state. They provided a meal card good for one meal per day (with a $ limit) at a restuarant close to the apartments plus generally provided meals after home games. They also provided all meals on the road. They provided the bats, and uniforms. The players provided any other equipment.

Other members of his college team were placed in other leagues (Coastal Plains, Hawaii, Southern Collegiate), plus a close friend of his was in the Northwoods. Each one was a little different in what it cost.
Last edited by Michael'sDad
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
My son's cape expenses were about the same as Fungo's, he got mileage for driving though I think if you fly it's paid for by the league. The 50 dollars required a week by the player to give to the host family was earned by picking up rocks and raking the field, along with being a camp counselor (they all have camps for a few weeks. Food was always left in the fridge for him (he had his own shelf) by the host family but he did eat meals after the game out if it wasn't too late returning. The jobs are basically easy and son liked that it prevented him from sleeping in each day as to not lose his college schedule of early classes.
He also liked that he had the same bed to return home to every night after traveling so much on the road in college for two years. I think that traveling and staying on teh road, is a good experience for those that don't make the travel team their first year in college.
Essentially is it one huge scouting summer day in and day out.
Yes, you most likely will find better facilities than on the cape, there is no glitz imn that regard, it is what it is, but that is not the purpose. The purpose is to play against and with the best players in the country, so if that is one of the choices, go for it. It is especially a great opportunity for those that are asked their first year in college as a large portion of the players are those going into their draft year. You get a chance to watch many future ML players and figure out how you are going to be much better than them. I understand many young players returning back from the cape come back a whole lot more focused than when they left, knowing they have 2 years to improve for draft possibility.

Besides, you get to spend the entire summer with hard core Red Sox fans! Eek
Last edited by TPM
ILVBBILVBB1,000+ posts
The cost varies by league and to a degree team to team. The better financed and established leagues appear to have an edge from a cost prospective.

My son played in the Great Lakes League after his freshman year. We paid a player fee of $150 and an airplane ticket to and from Ohio. The team provided housing (college dorm), one meal a day, workout facilities, laundry for baseball uni's and such and transportation to and from every game. My only cost was for either breakfast or lunch (usually lunch as the boys generally slept every day till noon). Very few if any kids had jobs, frankly the cost was so low.

Games were all 9 inning games, they were well attended and scouts were present more often then not.

This past summer he played in the Atlantic league. The player fee was $300. We paid airfare to and from Philly. My son lived with a host family (saints in my book). They generally fed him a meal if he was home. When he had a game or traveled to a game, he had to fend for himself (the team didn't supply a meal). The team provided nothing. He had to supply his own transportation to and from games (generally he car pooled, although he had to catch a cab once that cost $85). They had to go into NYC to play a series at St. John's, he said tolls alone was more than $25 which he split with 2 other players. The team webcast their games, but the cost was $25 per game so we seldom heard them play (the prior year webcasts were free). If my son wanted to work out he would have had to join a local gym as the team had not made arrangements for any kind of workout facilities. The team provided wood bats, however, my son said that they were so cheep that they all were broken by the second week of the season and kids had to buy there own bats. The team ran a camp for local kids, some of the players earned a few dollars (not all kids were invited to coach - preferance was given to kids from local universities or those that grew up in the area). The cost this past summer was a little more than 3 times the cost of his first summer.

Games this last summer were not very well attended. My son indicated that the standard crowd at home was 25, attendance was better with other teams. They did get to play in the brand new AAA stadium and that game was well attended. With the exception of scout day he said that games were seldom scouted. Also, in the Atlantic league nearly 40% of their games are 7 inning double headers. I don't know why this is but it clearly reduced the amount of innings played (and the amount of playing time for many).

The better leagues appear to have more resources and as a result the cost to the family is less. What I have learned is that you can not assume anything and that if you don't ask the important questions before your son signs his contract, you may end up having to foot the bill for costs that you clearly hadn't anticipated.
Last edited by ILVBB
J JT1,000+ posts
My son played in a fee league this past summer...plus we have to fork out $$ for room and board. It was NOT cheap...but the summer he had living on his own with 3 other teammates was worth the expense. The league was great for "cutting his teeth" and was friendly to the D3 player...and his success enabled him to get picked up in late summer by a CPL team for a 2 week stint...performed well and he got picked up by them for the entire 09 summer. Thus...look at the BIG picture.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Infield08 you don't have to accept the 1st offer. My son turned down 4 placemens and the cost varied substancially. They ranged up to a coupl thousand dollars. It didn't hurt him in the coaches eyes but they did put a little pressure on him. He didn't enjoy his 1st experience as several promises were broken.
From what I have learned from my son's experience and several of his teammates is that some really enjoyed their experience and others didn't. My son is not a country kid and he was stuck out in the country. The host family was lovely and even visited him at college . Wonderful people but they were often away with their own kids. They didn't charge anything for food or room. The team charged $450. Many of my son's teammates didn'y enjoy their experience either for one reason or another. One had a 10:00 curfew and he is 22 yo. A lot depends on your son and what he likes. My son is a social animal who needs his friends around and is a city dweller. 2 months is a long time. Also several complains about lack of coaching and practice time.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
Keep in mind most kids will be lucky to have one offer to play. It is a challenge to get freshman placed. You can go ahead and ask 20 questions but the coach perhaps could interpret that as ungratefulness. It is not easy to get freshman placed and often takes a big sales job on behalf of a very dedicated assistant coach who works many hours for free.

I did some research about one year ago on placement and here is some of the data I collected:

To illustrate how rare it is to even be invited to play in one of these leagues - here are some approximate statistics that I compiled from this site and the Internet.

From NCAA-baseball.com - here are the 17 listed collegiate wood bat leagues:

Alaska
Atlantic Collegiate
California Collegiate
Cape Cod
Central Illinois
Clark Griffith Collegiate
Coastal Plain
Florida Collegiate Instructional
Great Lakes
Jayhawk
New England Collegiate
New York Collegiate
Northwoods
Pacific International
Southern Collegiate
Texas Collegiate
Valley

Assuming about 10 teams per league and about 25 players per team, that leaves about 4250 spots.

From this site, there are about 25,000 players at the NCAA D1-D3 levels. There are approximately 400 JUCO's out there which yields approximately another 10,000 players and about 300 NAIA schools which provide approximately another 7500.

Thus, with about 4250 spots and about 42,500 players at the collegiate level, there is about a 10% chance of finding one's way on to one of these rosters. The percentage is actually a bit higher in that college seniors are not eligible to play in the summer leagues. It is not easy to be placed on to one of these teams and it is not easy for coaches to find spots for players. It truly is an honor to be invited.
H Homerun041,000+ posts
ClevelandDad,

Your point is very well taken, not many players will or should question his placement by his college coach. Coaches will place players where they can to help them progress though the summer. Many coaches have the relationships that they rely on for their placement. If a school is strong, they will have the luxury to placing their players in better leagues.

BTW, there are actually close to 70 summer leagues, the ones you pointed out are recognized by NCAA but there are others around the country that operate at various levels.

Dale's Summer League Central

An additional thought, maybe the difference between the 17 leagues and the 70 leagues is that the balance may allow non-collegiate players to participate......
Last edited by Homerun04
ClevelandDadClevelandDadHSBBWeb Administrator
quote:
Originally posted by Homerun04:
ClevelandDad,

Your point is very well taken, not many players will or should question his placement by his college coach. Coaches will place players where they can to help them progress though the summer. Many coaches have the relationships that they rely on for their placement. If a school is strong, they will have the luxury to placing their players in better leagues.

BTW, there are actually close to 70 summer collegiate leagues, the ones you pointed out are recognized by NCAA but there are others around the country that operate at various levels.

Dale's Summer League Central

HR04- Your points are well taken as well. The leagues I listed are the famous ones and the ones most often discussed here on the hsbbweb. Indeed there are numerous other leagues in which to play and they also provide great summertime competition.

Sorry if I implied not to ask questions because I did not mean it that way. I was just really trying to indicate that you might not want to give the impression that the coach's efforts were not appreciated. Certainly ask questions but in the spirit of trying to find out what needs to be done (financially, logistically) to prepare for the upcoming summer.
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
Its not so much about the league as it is about the team and family your son will be placed with. Kids on different teams in the same league, and same team, have vastly different experiences. Some host families and/or teams pay for almost everyting, while others don't. At risk of sounding repetitive, my son found his best source for information were his teamates who played on the teams his coach was trying to place him on.

Another poster wrote:

"....Also several complains about lack of coaching and practice time....."

My son had this experience with his first summer team and spoke to his coach who in effect told him "this is by design. Just like pro ball, it is up to the players to put in the necessary effort to workout and get better" Don't know if it applied to the situations mentioned, but sometimes there is a reason for it.
3rdgenerationnation3rdgenerationnation100+ posts
I was born and raised in Falmouth, a Cape Cod league town from the beginning. My Grandfather and a couple of Great Uncles played in it when it was a semi-pro league. I was raised and taught the game by a couple of generations of CCL players and coaches. While I live all the way across the country now I bring my kids home for some time each summer and the Commodores are part of the reason why. (I saw Steve Bye, Bye, Balboni hit a ball the pitcher tried to throw his glove at and the centerfielder never even started back on.....)

I can't tell you how good the other leagues are but I can tell you that the debth of quality pitching and the number of scouts on the Cape has never been higher.
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
Collegeparent that coach sounds like the coach of a HS who didn't believe in teaching his team the game. BB players always need coaching . My son was an hour from the ball park and 20 min by car from aany thing else. He had no transportation. He also had some mechanics issues that I was unaware of that started at the end of his season and it continued to get worse. I thought it was due to the lack of coaching at the summer team but it was due to the lack of P coaching at his college. If the summer team had a proper P coach it could have been corrected in a matter of mins. His shoulder was actually starting to hurt for the 1st time in his BB career. MLB teams have excellent coaching as a rule and they are constantly working with pitchers. Pitchers and hitter can develop some real problems and still look good to many but it shows up in their performance.
The coaches were very nice and they were great to my son barring a few unkept promises to get him to sign. The big one was that he would be within walking distance of the ball park because he had no car. He was also promised a job which never happened and they were told that he needed to work. The whole day he had nothing to do and nowhere to go. He was bored to tears. The host family was wonderful but they were rarely home. They travelled a lot with their 2 young lefties. As I said they even visisted him at college. The coaches even started him in the opener against last years championship team so they liked him but they obviously didn't see the issues. Unfortunately I didn't see the issues until spring when they streamed his games on the internet. I worked with him for a few mins and he was back on track and I just hope he can salvage his senior year after great freshman and soph years. His new P coach teams pitching in Charleston and is keeping an eye on his mechanics.
I am always amazed that people don't understand the importance of good coaching and proper mechanics. They need good coaching all the time.
Is it an honor ? yes I would say it is. 9 of my son's teammates were on the all star teams and were honored for their excellent play. Not all of them enjoyed the experience even though they did well. I agree it is more about the team than the league except the top legue. My son's 1st placement was the Northwoods league and I was shocked he didn;t want to go. That attitude may have contributed to his experience not being so good as well. He loves Charleston and has a life there which doesen't always include BB.
Last edited by BobbleheadDoll
momandcpamomandcpa500+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Infield08:
ClevelandDad, thanks for the illuminating post. It confirms my hesitance in questioning any placement my son will receive. The associate head coach of my son's team does the summer placements and we will trust his judgment in finding the best spot for our son -- and hope that we can afford it too!


My son played this past summer as an outgoing freshman/incoming sophomore at one of the leagues listed. The cost for him was minimal. He had a great experience on the field, a great host family, AND a great roommate.

I, too, worried a fair amount about his placement... and surprisingly enough it all worked out withOUT Mom's help! Big Grin You might want to check and see where some of the other players from your college were placed this past summer. It appears to me that colleges tend to have relationships with certain leagues.

Good luck!
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
I think if most of us understood how much it costs in money, time, sacrifice and resources to operate a Summer League team for 42 to 65 or so games, we would not be focused on the cost to us.
For most teams that are successful, these folks work 10 months per year to provide our son's the ability to play for 2 months. Many, many are non profits and are totally dependent on community support and fundraisers to field a team.
If we understand how much it costs to bring in 25 college players and run a team for 2-3 months, we would recognize this isn't about what cost it might be to us, it is about the time, effort and sacrifice others make for our sons.
CollegeParentNoMoreCollegeParentNoMore1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
Collegeparent that coach sounds like the coach of a HS who didn't believe in teaching his team the game. ..


Gee, I never checked back on this oneSmile

To the contrary, the coach was a very well known retired/highly succesfull/respected D2 college coach. Scouts, other coaches and former players have nothing but great things to say about him and his staff.

He made an impression on my son... take control of your own destiney and make good use of your time and opportunities, don't wait for someone else to help you........
B BobbleheadDoll5,000+ posts
CP all players need constant coaching especially pitching and hitting. Evrey pro team has P coaches and hitting coaches for that reason otherwise they could send them home and save the money. Any coach whos say you can do it by just practcing is dead wrong . Hitters and pitchers pick up bad habits often they require adjustments and that is what those coaches are there for. Unfortunately many of them don't know what to look for. My son suffered through his summer league unnecessarily and his JR year after posting 2 very good years in D1 college ball. The problem started late in his soph year and got worse over that summer and during the spring of his college year. If I hadn't seen what was happening it still might be going on.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by CollegeParent:
My son had this experience with his first summer team and spoke to his coach who in effect told him "this is by design. Just like pro ball, it is up to the players to put in the necessary effort to workout and get better" Don't know if it applied to the situations mentioned, but sometimes there is a reason for it.


I found this to be the same for my son. You are basically on your own until gametime, and he did not receive instruction though some players often do pick up instruction during the summer at the cape. There is a difference between instructional summer leagues and summer leagues. Most college coaches don't want things changed (especially for pitchers) and the summer coaches respect that.

3rdgeneration, if you were up at Falmouth summer of 2006 son was there, great place. He loved it.
B Bear1,000+ posts
Peak Attendence at a regular season game at
Madison's Duck Pond, for the Northwoods League
is 9,288.

Average attendence ~ 35 games: 6,100

Peak # of kegs sold per game: 95
Average # of kegs sold per game: 60

Average number of Tapped Kegs per game: 30
Five in the RF Bleachers
Five in the LF Bleachers
Five down the 1b line
Five down the 3b line
Ten behind the dish.

Average number of fans in seats for
the inning and a half after
the Visting Team's Beer Batter strikes out. 380

Average number of Women getting autographs
from the Ball Players after the game........2,800

Average age of the women getting autographs: 26

Average number of fans in the Duck Pond parking lot
three hours before the game, every night: 3,800

Average number of fans in the Duck Pond parking lot
after the game, every night: 1,800

Want to know what makes the Northwoods League
what it is (and why many collegiate players are leaving the summer wood leagues in the NE,
Alaska, CA & Texas?) ...

.............................think about it.
Last edited by Bear
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