Check it ... Washington, DC's WUSA CH9 did a piece on this back on June 30th:
American Legion Baseball is an Affordable option for Young Athletes
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I would love to see the trend go from travel back to legion. Even in our area, Legion ball has taken a hit and just a few short years ago, all the top players were on Legion teams. Over the last few years, it has become about coaches becoming businessmen which is all travel baseball is about. Travel leagues are expensive and are more about showcasing than about team play and playing for your town & school. At the end of the day, no matter what league you put them in, the cream rises to the top with many kids who's family spent thousands on travel ball got false hope and weeded out anyway and only they're a lot lighter in the wallet from the expenses of travel ball.
Just wanted to share how they operate legion baseball in South Carolina.
quote:From: WBJones
Date: Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Online POLL question about ALB roster size
To: JEFF MILBURN
Jeff, Thanks for your interest in the betterment of American Legion ball. Our State in South Carolina already allows 20 players on our roster during regular season. This is fine with national. When we go into playoffs we must cut to 18.
Funding will always be a problem for baseball, whether on the high school, college or summer teams. In high school and college the football teams help or completely fund the baseball teams. In summer ball the parents or the legion posts funds the team.
If going to 20 players allows more players to be absent from the team to do other things like college camps and the like, then you will get into vacation absentees. So, if you're going to have more players so some can miss and still have enough players you're back to the numbers you have now.
Are there any other summer ball operations who cover expenses for the regional and national tournaments other than american legion ball? I am thankful for what they do. In promoting the American Legion Baseball program, I state the following points:
1. Our boys don't have to pay a dime to play for us. We haul them, feed them and sleep them when we are out of town.
2. American Legion ball play for their hometown and community.
3. My players want to win for our town. Its not about who gets 2 hits and sits down. How many travel ball players are trying with all their might to hit a ground ball to second base with a runner on third with one out? This is what being a baseball team means
4. A.L. is a showcase of teams not a show case of individuals
5. Poor kids can play AL baseball.
6. Our coaches motives are pure. None of our coaches are paid. I have one coach who drives 50 miles one way everyday to coach. It costs me at least $10,000 a year in lost revenue from my business(dentistry) and direct contributions. It is a good discipline to trace the money in any operation to see what the motives are.
We are hosting the South Eastern Regionals in Sumter Aug 6th to 10th. I don't have the team of last year (3rd place nationally). So, we may be two and out. If you want to come down, you can stay at my house. I won't be able to visit with you because of my duties. If and when we lose out, I immediately leave town for a few days so I can only offer my house while I'm here.
Wallie Jones (Sumter P15's)
http://www.p-15.com
quote:
From: Jeff Milburn
Date: Wed, Mar 3, 2010 at 9:44 PM
Subject: "Letter to Editor" for Collegiate Baseball News
To: Collegiate Baseball
Dear Lou,
Please consider my letter for the print edition. Please edit as you see fit.
Please confirm receipt.
Thank You,
Jeff Milburn
American Legion Baseball, the last of a dying breed? Or making a strong comeback?
I read with much interest the Little League = Big Money, while millions of people volunteer their time for this organization, a handful of people earn substantial salaries article that was featured in the January 8, 2010 edition.
I just want to share that National American Legion Headquarters is staffed with just one and half full-time employees that is the National program coordinator, Mr. Jim Quinlan and his part-time secretary.
American Legion Baseball is always around the 5,000 ballpark figure of registered teams through both junior and senior teams.
National Headquarters does not charge a fee for the players to play.
This year, ALB National has taking advantage of the technology that is available and has made the registration process paperless by allowing everyone to enter their teams via online at the following link: http://www.baseball.legion.org/baseball
This registration process just alone could start attracting managers back to form new teams to play American Legion Baseball.
Mr. Quinlan did share that the rules committee is reviewing the roster limit.
To close, American Legion Baseball is truly the only nearly 100% volunteer baseball organization left in the United States if the not the world.
Kudos to Mr. Jim Quinlan, his part-time secretary (I am sorry I did not catch her name), the State Commissioners, District Chairman across the country who volunteer their time as well as to all of the team managers and coaching staffs for giving many young men an opportunity to play baseball for basically no charge.
Respectfully shared,
Jeff Milburn (former player/coach of Post 21 Winchester)
Winchester, VA
From: WBJones
Date: Thu, Mar 4, 2010 at 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: "Letter to Editor" for Collegiate Baseball News
To: Jeff Milburn
Good letter. Had supper with Mr. Quinlan in January.
Legion ball is the only thing in our area where the players don't have to pay to play baseball. By the nature of its restrictions it is a community team. When a fan goes to see his home team play, he will probably know a lot of the kids. The kids care if they win as do the fans, unlike showcase stuff.
I think what needs to be hammered home about travel ball is the tremendous expense involved-you pay to play, have travel expenses, motels for parents and family, food away from home.
Some spend $4000/year from the 9th grade on to win a scholarship worth $2,000 per year if that. Not good mathmatics in South Carolina as I don't know about Va.
We currently have 14 graduates from our Legion team playing in college. We have 3 playing pro ball, none of whom ever played a day of 'travel ball' nor paid for private lessons. So, you can get to college and beyond in baseball from American Legion ball.
I would suggest that you read The Talent Code by Coyle. It has given me information that will change my way of coaching and dealing with my grand children. Every one who teaches should read this book. It unwraps some mysteries about why people reach different levels in what they do whether it is playing a piano, mastering mathmatics, or playing baseball.
Wallie Jones
Coach Milburn,
How many id's do you have going on here?
How many id's do you have going on here?
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Coach Milburn,
How many id's do you have going on here?
Two, I used to post with my full name and someone said it's not a good idea to do that. So I had the site owner rename it to my nickname which I am not using as I am using TCWPreps, is there an issue with that?
quote:Originally posted by TCWPreps:
Two, I used to post with my full name and someone said it's not a good idea to do that.
People know who I am but I don't list my email and telephone number. I haveno agenda here.
Why not just do it in your profile? Or is it that TCWpreps has a board that needs some hits?
quote:Originally posted by TPM:quote:Originally posted by TCWPreps:
Two, I used to post with my full name and someone said it's not a good idea to do that.
People know who I am but I don't list my email and telephone number. I haveno agenda here.
Why not just do it in your profile? Or is it that TCWpreps has a board that needs some hits?
Nope, TCWPreps does not have a board and is not interested in dealing with anonymous users, not part of the mission statement.
Oh yeah that's right you got your blog and FB, etc.
What's your point sir, haven't we been over this many times? I don't think that anyone is denying it isn't affordable for young players. I don't think that anyone is denying that travel ball can be expensive.
Either way, regardless, is when someone has to keep putting the same thing in front of my face, it becomes old news, and has a personal stake it that agenda.
I am done now, I just was curious why you had to change your name and why the multiple names. I got my answer.
What's your point sir, haven't we been over this many times? I don't think that anyone is denying it isn't affordable for young players. I don't think that anyone is denying that travel ball can be expensive.
Either way, regardless, is when someone has to keep putting the same thing in front of my face, it becomes old news, and has a personal stake it that agenda.
I am done now, I just was curious why you had to change your name and why the multiple names. I got my answer.
FWIW, I had a very interesting conversation with a recruiter recently that told me that the expectations now expected from those who seek out college scholarships to play baseball has become incredible (skill level).
Unless an organization can provide the a venue that will help players to develop the skills needed and provide good competition to play against (a must), and lots of exposure, people ARE going to spend money for the above.
Unless an organization can provide the a venue that will help players to develop the skills needed and provide good competition to play against (a must), and lots of exposure, people ARE going to spend money for the above.
All you have to do is get someone to start and fund a Legion program in every area of America and you can put an end to Showcase baseball. Of course then you have to have coaches who do not use the Legion team as a way to continue their hs program throughout the summer while players trying out from the feeder programs in that area are cut. Even though they are clearly better players than the home base programs players. Of course this doesnt happen to the D1 signee that pitches. It only happens to the 2b or lf who is not from the home base school and the home base schools fundraiser is the dad of the 2b.
You want to talk BS politics it is rabid in our area. Players who were all conf and all state cut who attended feeder schools and home based players on the roster in front of them. Coaches who use the legion experience to do the will of the home base hs coach. Of course keeping the majority of his players on the team is the key here right? How else is he going to accomplish this goal?
Nine inning games five to six days a week where guys arms are worn completely out by the half way point of the season. This is after throwing a hs season and straight into the summer. Pitch counts that are off the charts because there is simply not enough arms to go around.
Legion ball would be great if you took the BS politics out of it and allowed teams to carry enough arms to play 9 inning games five to six days a week without throwing guys to death. Take the BS politics out of it and select the best players from the drawing area instead of loading up on home base school players so the HS coach can use the Legion team as a HS summer team.
Legion is dead in our neck of the woods for these reasons and many more. Now if you can come and fix these issues I am sure many more would play Legion. There is a reason showcase baseball is here and Legion has no one to blame for its demise but itself. When a player who is drafted in the 3rd round is cut from a Legion tryout so another kid who plays at the home base school can be the everyday mif do you think there is a problem? When a team who wins the conference year in and year out sends their players to Legion tryouts and they are not selected and the players who are are from the other teams in the same conference whats going on?
People play showcase because there are legit tryouts. The coaches want to select the best players they can find. They want to put the best team and players in front of the college coaches. The parents know their son is not going to throw a 9 inning game twice a week and left in to hang because they have 5 more games that week and they need to burn up some innings. The list goes on and on. There are a lot of things that are free. And many times there is a very good reason they are free.
There are more and more showcase programs popping up that are free to players selected. There are more and more programs getting sponsors for players who have hardships. We never turned a player down because they could not afford it. Never.
If a Legion program is doing it right and doing it fair, great. Outside of that my experience with the way my players were treated over the years and the way I have seen other players treated over the years leads me to post this.
You want to talk BS politics it is rabid in our area. Players who were all conf and all state cut who attended feeder schools and home based players on the roster in front of them. Coaches who use the legion experience to do the will of the home base hs coach. Of course keeping the majority of his players on the team is the key here right? How else is he going to accomplish this goal?
Nine inning games five to six days a week where guys arms are worn completely out by the half way point of the season. This is after throwing a hs season and straight into the summer. Pitch counts that are off the charts because there is simply not enough arms to go around.
Legion ball would be great if you took the BS politics out of it and allowed teams to carry enough arms to play 9 inning games five to six days a week without throwing guys to death. Take the BS politics out of it and select the best players from the drawing area instead of loading up on home base school players so the HS coach can use the Legion team as a HS summer team.
Legion is dead in our neck of the woods for these reasons and many more. Now if you can come and fix these issues I am sure many more would play Legion. There is a reason showcase baseball is here and Legion has no one to blame for its demise but itself. When a player who is drafted in the 3rd round is cut from a Legion tryout so another kid who plays at the home base school can be the everyday mif do you think there is a problem? When a team who wins the conference year in and year out sends their players to Legion tryouts and they are not selected and the players who are are from the other teams in the same conference whats going on?
People play showcase because there are legit tryouts. The coaches want to select the best players they can find. They want to put the best team and players in front of the college coaches. The parents know their son is not going to throw a 9 inning game twice a week and left in to hang because they have 5 more games that week and they need to burn up some innings. The list goes on and on. There are a lot of things that are free. And many times there is a very good reason they are free.
There are more and more showcase programs popping up that are free to players selected. There are more and more programs getting sponsors for players who have hardships. We never turned a player down because they could not afford it. Never.
If a Legion program is doing it right and doing it fair, great. Outside of that my experience with the way my players were treated over the years and the way I have seen other players treated over the years leads me to post this.
Good points in your post.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I understand the nostalgia around American Legion baseball; but, as soon as showcase tournaments made it possible for scouts and recruiters to see a bunch of talented players in a single location, it spelled the death knell for legion baseball (which already suffered from all of the maladies mentioned by Coach May).
With recruiting budgets as limited as they are, the recruiters are going to favor any format that allows them to spend their limited dollars efficiently. It makes no sense for them to travel from legion game to legion game, night in and night out, to see two or three recruitable players at a time.
As an aside, the same dynamics give the Cape Cod League the advantage it has over other summer college leagues. When the distance separating the two teams farthest apart is only 45 miles, making it possible for scouts to take in a couple of innings in 4 games a night, the obvious efficiency involved goes a long way toward explaining the league's popularity among major league scouting organizations.
With recruiting budgets as limited as they are, the recruiters are going to favor any format that allows them to spend their limited dollars efficiently. It makes no sense for them to travel from legion game to legion game, night in and night out, to see two or three recruitable players at a time.
As an aside, the same dynamics give the Cape Cod League the advantage it has over other summer college leagues. When the distance separating the two teams farthest apart is only 45 miles, making it possible for scouts to take in a couple of innings in 4 games a night, the obvious efficiency involved goes a long way toward explaining the league's popularity among major league scouting organizations.
It sounds like Legion ball is the same as High School ball in that some programs are great and run the way they should be and others ...well ...they are not. Our limited experience with Legion ball in Virginia indicates that it is pretty good. There are scouts from local colleges present on a fairly regular basis and the all-star game boasted 25+ college scouts including some out of state D1 programs. I guess it is like anything else - do your homework and know what you are getting into. While there are always people who believe that the selection process is not perfect - ours appears to be fair. I do think our local organizations might not be pleased with the suggestion that the experience is free because it does not have much value. I know that the Legion Posts feel that they are providing a service to the community - every game I went to this year had several local Legion post members in attendance. While it is not for everyone - on our area it is "an Affordable Option for Young Athletes".
quote:You want to talk BS politics it is rabid in our area. Players who were all conf and all state cut who attended feeder schools and home based players on the roster in front of them. Coaches who use the legion experience to do the will of the home base hs coach. Of course keeping the majority of his players on the team is the key here right? How else is he going to accomplish this goal?
Coach May you make some very solid points and I think this one I'm highlighting out of your post is going to be done away with in North Carolina. Tuesday at the rules clinic in Greensboro they said that the grandfather clause that allows HS coaches to coach Legion and JR. Legion teams with more than 8 of their own players has been done away with. Now baseball has to follow like other sports in being limited to a full team minus one.
Now this could go two ways - like you're saying and Legion starts having legitimate tryouts and putting the best possible players on the team OR it will free up high school players to get on more and more travel, select, USSSA (whatever team) and Legion will disappear. Sadly I think the latter will be more likely to happen than the former.
Maybe I'm crazy but Prepster said scouts want to go to a central location instead of traveling to town to town to watch Legion games and he's right. But I can't see why Legion teams can't attend these types of tournaments while still playing a more limited schedule. Either have Legion teams put on their own tournaments in a central location or have Legion teams enter these types of tournaments where you the (fill in the blank) type of team. I just don't see why we need to get caught on the name of the team. Baseball is baseball and let's get the best to play each other.
Over in the VA thread the OP has been posting schedules for games.
Someone said that one team has 6 college players.
Is that normal?
I mean if that is true how does ALB help the HS player by giving up 6 spots to college players?
Someone said that one team has 6 college players.
Is that normal?
I mean if that is true how does ALB help the HS player by giving up 6 spots to college players?
I can speak for any ALB program other than the one my son is involved in. It does have several college players on it. What it means is that the level of competition is intense. My son, a rising junior, has had the opportunity to catch a very good local JUCO pitcher.
The last three games have been attended by college coaches and scouts, from JUCO to D1. I'm going to the first state tournament game I've attended today, so it will be interesting to see if others are there.
Does it compare to a showcase team? From what I know, the answer to that is "no", there isn't as much exposure, especially beyond the local colleges. I will say that there are kids who played for this Legion Post who are now playing good D1 baseball.
I don't know if Legion will be the answer next summer but it has been a great experience for him this year. All I can say is that I'm glad TR is back in business.
The last three games have been attended by college coaches and scouts, from JUCO to D1. I'm going to the first state tournament game I've attended today, so it will be interesting to see if others are there.
Does it compare to a showcase team? From what I know, the answer to that is "no", there isn't as much exposure, especially beyond the local colleges. I will say that there are kids who played for this Legion Post who are now playing good D1 baseball.
I don't know if Legion will be the answer next summer but it has been a great experience for him this year. All I can say is that I'm glad TR is back in business.
quote:Originally posted by TPM:
Over in the VA thread the OP has been posting schedules for games.
Someone said that one team has 6 college players.
Is that normal?
I mean if that is true how does ALB help the HS player by giving up 6 spots to college players?
In our area, it was normal. Senior Legion is 19U making rising college sophomores still age-eligible to play. Usually, the Legion teams that had their eye on State & National championships loaded their teams with age-eligible college players.
For partly this reason, this is why a HS coaches summer league was formed in our area. So HS players who got squeezed off Legion teams had a competitive summer league to play in that also showcased so they got their exposure. To be eligible to play on the HS coaches summer league, the cut off was rising seniors. Recently-graduated HS players weren't eligible and had to play Senior Legion or somewhere else. So basically, any young varsity players or rising varsity players who would've gotten squeezed off Legion now have the HS coaches league.
I've always wondered why college players would play on Legion instead of a college league or at least a college bridge league with all other incoming college freshman but I guess there are many resons for that.
Now, with many HS players in the HS coaches league, Senior Legion teams would be primarily made up of recently-graduated HS players and rising college sophomores but I wonder how many of them are playing Legion with all the college summer leagues out there. I've seen Legion teams with rising college sophomores play legion who quit playing baseball after they graduated so Legion was the only option.
In as much as I'd like to see Senior Legion be the premier summer league for HS players, I definitely can understand why & how these new travel leagues formed. Basically, Legion has shot itself in the foot for many of the same BS politics mentioned by Coach May has gone on as well and these travel leagues forming because there was a market and demand for those HS players wanting to play on these teams where they can get exposure.
quote:Originally posted by zombywoof:
In our area, it was normal. Senior Legion is 19U making rising college sophomores still age-eligible to play.
I've always wondered why college players would play on Legion instead of a college league or at least a college bridge league with all other incoming college freshman but I guess there are many reasons for that..
I think it's all 18U, now. My son (10/92) will be a sophomore in college. He says he's finished.
His team lost in the regionals, last weekend. He played Legion this summer to be with the guys he grew up with (including two D1-bound pitchers), one last time. I'm glad he did.
By the way, I saw one local D3 coach at the regionals (eight teams). If any other scouts/recruiters were there, they were very good at going unnoticed.
In fact, if I had a dollar for every scout/recruiter/college coach I've recognized at Legion games in the last six years, I'd have about... three dollars.
I know. I know. That's not why kids play Legion! But, it's one reason they don't. It's 2011, not 1984.
I really believe Legion's best move would be to go all wood.
I've seen Legion vary greatly by region. I've worked in areas where AA Legion is "next year's HS varsity team" and AAA is recent grads and local JC students.
I've worked in one area where the AAA coaches were paid $8,000 for the season.
I've seen some select teams scramble for a Legion "sponsorship" so they could compete in Legion tournaments.
And, I've seen some areas where the select teams have taken all the players with any level of talent leaving the Legion teams a small step above JV ball.
I've worked regional Legion tournaments that lead to tghe Legion world series and by the time teams get to that level, they are all playing pretty good ball.
I've worked in one area where the AAA coaches were paid $8,000 for the season.
I've seen some select teams scramble for a Legion "sponsorship" so they could compete in Legion tournaments.
And, I've seen some areas where the select teams have taken all the players with any level of talent leaving the Legion teams a small step above JV ball.
I've worked regional Legion tournaments that lead to tghe Legion world series and by the time teams get to that level, they are all playing pretty good ball.
quote:Originally posted by AntzDad:
I think it's all 18U, now. My son (10/92) will be a sophomore in college. He says he's finished.
From the 2011 American Legion Rule Book:
"Senior American Legion Baseball competition in 2011 is open only to players born on or after January 1, 1992."
That opens it up to kids that are as old as 19 years 7 months old by the time of most regionals.