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I have been amazed about the number of posts lately regarding parents posting about their players being (for whatever reason) unhappy. I am sometimes not sure whether it is the player or the parent themselves. Expectations have to be realistic.

Being through HS and college, I myself as well as son have found many times that things weren't always the way he or we liked them. The bottom line is that no matter how wonderful things appear, how good our players are, or we think they are, baseball is not an easy road. Whatever road you take, however far you go, there are always obstacles that one has to face and many times you find yourself questioning your decision. That's normal just like life you have to take each day, each game, each inning, each at bat, each year as it is your first and could be your last and do whatever you can to improve YOUR game, being a good team member and not worry about how the coach is screwing you, someone is better, you made a wrong choice, etc.

Some things I have found along the way that son dealt with on his own, with or without advice.

Will you always get the playing time you want?

Most likely no, in HS and in college. Every coach runs his team differently, in college it is big business. The coach makes decisions and sometimes they don't always seem fair, he has his reasons and that's it, just like your boss at work does what he wants and you have little or no say in the situation. The more you dwell on his decisions or develop and attitude, the less success you will have wherever you are. As we have stated over and over, coaches don't always play the best players, sometimes it's about loyalty, sometimes about experience, sometimes about winning, sometimes because you need to develop your game (even though you think you are the best at that position), sometimes you are not fully in his plan for another year or two. Sometimes you get lucky, a player gets hurt, gets drafted and as a freshman you get an early shot, it does happen often. Make sure that you have summer plans to improve and play as much as you can to improve and get noticed in HS and college. Don't rely solely on your HS coach or even your college coach or scouts at every game.

The coach lied to me.
Did the coach really make you false promises or is this your opinion. Where you so excited to get signed, you didn't realize there were more in front of you, you had to work harder to prove yourself, maybe you were just a backup guy for that program where in another you could have been a starter. Into half a season, how can you complain you haven't had enough playing time? Do that after seasons end. Things change rapidly the farther the season goes, starting pitchers are tired, position starters get banged up. You are now into 20+ games in a 56+ game season. Be patient. Even if you have done well a few at bats, a few innings, doesn't mean you are ready that moment. If a coach tells you that you will be a starter when he signs you as a senior in hS, remember things change, often. The only thing he should promise you as a scholarship player is a roster spot. The rest is up to you.

Did you make your decision on where to go to school on basebal only?

Bad choice, IMO.

Will you get drafted in college.

The truth is most likely not. Even if you are the best pitcher or best batter on your team, a very succesful college player doesn't always equate into a successful pro player or getting drafted. Lots of this depends on you as an individual player, where you play, who you play under, type of program, competition you face and whether a scout thinks you have pro potential. I always think it's better to concentrate on your degree than becoming a pro player, because in reality, that's what is most important. Everything else is icing on the cake, IMO. Remember, things change, a pro prospect in college can become a marginal player, and a marginal player can become a prospect. So much depends on your future potential, your growth and maturity. Because you are a college senior playing your best ever, does not mean you have a future in baseball. In fact, the older you are in college, the less likely you may be desired. You have to have GREAT stuff at 22,23,24 as you are "old" already.

Do I ask my parents to ever get involved.

Never, unless there are issues regarding overuse, and most likely that can only be while in HS. A situation that I know a parent pulled a college coach over to the side and complained about playing time and how unhappy his son was and how much better he was. The truth was the player was not unhappy and the player was not better than anyone else. When given his chance, he didn't perform and lost it to others, even younger than him. Do not speak to anyone else about your situation but your coach.

How will I know that this is the perfect "fit" for my choice as to where to go to school and playball.

Hardest question of all to answer. What appears to be the best choice may not be when you get there. Every program is run differently and you don't know that until you become a part of the team. What may have been a good year before, may not be the year you enter, and that causes lots of tension that may not have been there before you came. You have to learn to adjust to coaches and their demands, possible changes, their attitudes and their goals. If you can't do that, don't play college sports. You'll never be happy, no one is 100% happy, I can tell you that. Trying to get out of a situation because you find it not to your liking, may or may not mean the next place is better for YOU. Don't assume teh grass is greener. Yes, sometimes you have to get out, a good reason the coach is evil, period. Go with the flow, the more you do this the less likely you will be unhappy. Remember, coaches during recruiting are courting you, you don't find out who they are until you are with them 90% of your time and most likely you won't be happy 100% of the time. Are you all happy with your boss all of the time?

My post may have some familiarity, as I have taken some questions or situations posted here for my opinions.

Also, one may argue each situation is different, I don't agree with that. The situation your player is facing most likely has been faced by many before you. This is the norm, not the exception, usually.
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Wow,..TPM, you beat me to it. I too was just making a post about what seems to be a wave of dicontented parents lately at the highschool level.

I had been wondering if it was just human nature or something else?
You have probably hit the nail on the head about the reason fitting under an umbrella of parental expectations.

What I have also observed is that the players themselves dont seem to be complaining, so that continues to restore my faith as to what is happening in the baseball worlds/communities across America.

Many recent parental complaints are of this nature:

- At tryouts, my son did not make the level that " I think " he should have.
- My player does not get enough playing time.
- Other players on the team aren't very good.
- Why is the coach playing player X over player Z?
- " I " contacted the coach and now he's giving my son an attitude.
- My son has been black listed.
......and the list goes on.


I watched a kid recently week, who hasn't got a hit in the last three years, go up to bat 4th in the line up. ( my inner head/voice said, " huh ? " )
This kid hit one,.... ( and it was a beauty I must say! ) over the CF fence with runners on base! Cha ching!!

( Me and my stupid-stupid, " Huh? " head! ) More proof, I know NOTHING. Why did I second guess the coach's decison??

There are lots of things we parents don't always understand or agree with, especially when it comes to certain decisions that the coach(s) makes. But the truth be told, bottom line, it is hands down, the Coach's team.
He makes the decisions. We as observers have to learn to live with them.
The players seem to already understand this.


I also watched a parent yell from centerfield to his son sitting on the bench. " Tell your coaches to get some brains and put you in. You're the best *&%@$! player/pitcher on the team!! ".
Player continued to sit.
7th inning,...same player gets off the bench & takes right field. His dad is standing at the fence livid. The player calmly looks over to his dad and says, " Dad, I came to the game late. You cant be late. I'm in the game now. That's what counts. "

I know that father didn't enjoy that game.
He stood steaming with his ears on fire about his son not playing.
Doubt he took much note of his son's team mate who hit one over the fence for the first time in his life that night, or the sophomore who's quick thinking turned a double play and ended a crucial inning for us.
The value of these kinds of awesome moments unfortunately gets lost on the parent who is so consumed with the idea that his/her own child is being " wronged ".

I hope this father asked his son after the game, " Why were you late to your game ? " and then talked to him about the importance of being on time, etc. I also hope he noticed that the team still won inspite of his son sitting the bench.
( Remember that kid who hit one over the fence? Well he was actually filling in for this father's son's usual batting spot. )
Hopefully that event alone triggered the idea to both father and son, that no one player is more important over another.
I truely hope he didnt spend the rest of the evening telling his son how stupid his coaches were for not playing him for most of the game,...... but I have a feeling that's probably what happened.
I also have a feeling the coach probably got a livid phone call/email from this parent.
I'd also be willing to bet the coach wasnt going to meet this parent with a giant happy grin on his face either,...but, that just my best hunch. Wink

Parents,...please enjoy these four years of ball. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Consider it your challenge to find a way to overcome adversity. Take the high road, teach your sons that good things dont always come easy and that this too is just a tiny blip on the map of their life.
How these players and how we as parents handle these situations will help mold our children into what they will be in the future.
Its sooo important.

Enjoy the game,...if your son isn't playing,.....watch, observe, and cheer on the team, just like he is.
Don't miss out on special team moments.
Enjoy the team, not just your own player,....but the team as a whole.

There is a whole lot of satifaction that comes from watching the new, green-still-wet-behind-the-ears-catcher make an amazing throw down to 2nd, or the pitcher who finds his zone after a few harsh innings, or the left fielder who slides through the wet grass on his belly with his glove up and the ball sitting pretty inside of it.

Your son is watching. He's learning. He's overcoming. Join him.

We as parents can learn alot from our kids.
Last edited by shortstopmom
Once in high school or college player needs to develope rapport with coaches and address any issues he / she has.Parents need to let "little birdy" fly out of the nest.Without this chance to succeed or fail the parent becomes an enabler of parental dependancy.Give the kids a chance and most times they'll figure it out.Life is not always fair and sometimes knocks you down,The true test is what you do after that.

Good posts folks...
Here are a couple of more anecedotes that happened to us just this week.
1. Starter forgot pants... had to sit out. I wasn't going to ask another kid to give up his pants.
2. DH has shin splints bad.... mom e-mails my assistant coach, "can he play somewhere else where he wouldn't have to run much?" ... I mean folks, in the words of Larry the Cable Guy, that's funny I don't care who you are.
Sometimes I wonder if the kids would be unhappy if this generation of parents didn't tell them they're supposed to be unhappy. I think it's the parent's ego getting bruised their kid isn't the star or a starter.

I never remember my father commenting on anything negative regarding teammates and coaches. I remember one year of college summer ball the coach promised twelve position players starting positions. When I complained to my dad he asked what I was going to do about it. He meant on the field, not complaining to the coach.
Last edited by RJM
quote:
Parents,...please enjoy these four years of ball. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Consider it your challenge to find a way to overcome adversity. Take the high road, teach your sons that good things dont always come easy and that this too is just a tiny blip on the map of their life.
How these players and how we as parents handle these situations will help mold our children into what they will be in the future.
Its sooo important.

Enjoy the game,...if your son isn't playing,.....watch, observe, and cheer on the team, just like he is.
Don't miss out on special team moments.
Enjoy the team, not just your own player,....but the team as a whole.

There is a whole lot of satifaction that comes from watching the new, green-still-wet-behind-the-ears-catcher make an amazing throw down to 2nd, or the pitcher who finds his zone after a few harsh innings, or the left fielder who slides through the wet grass on his belly with his glove up and the ball sitting pretty inside of it.

Your son is watching. He's learning. He's overcoming. Join him.

We as parents can learn alot from our kids.

shortstopmom - these are very powerful words and stirred some emotions in me. If I am reading what you are saying correctly, I believe you are saying that there is tremendous honor in being on the team. I can even think in my own experiences, where you get caught up in what position someone is playing or where they may be hitting in the order or whether or not they are even playing for that matter. If that is the only focus, many of these team blessings for which you speak can be missed and I regret I missed some of them - moreso when I was a boy than in my son's experiences.

This also reminded me of a story and it demonstates how children can change or affect the lives of adults...

During my son's pre-hs years, I was always glad just to be the scorekeeper as it was something I enjoyed. For our 14 year old pony travel team however, I was asked to be an assistant coach. I agreed to coach first base and I would keep score at the same time Smile

On the day we held tryouts for this team, it was snowing on and off all day. Only 16 kids showed up for tryouts and we were going to keep 12 kids. One kid named Drew made the team by default. Another kid actually played better than Drew but he gave the vibe he was a trouble-maker so we kept Drew. We considered him to be the 12th man on our bench and didn't expect him to play that much. Were we ever mistaken about that!

As is the case with any baseball team at any level, not all 9 guys you play are going to perform well. With the slim pickings we had that year, that was almost assuredly the case. As time went on, Drew started to grow on us. He was a first-one-there and the last-one-to-leave types. Always had a smile on his face. Would give the shirt off his back type of player. I have never to this day met anyone as unselfish as him. In short, everyone loved that kid.

We started finding resaons to put him in the lineup. He started in the 9 hole and he played mostly first base. As time went on, he willed himself to become better and he did. We kept moving him up in the order and he started to pitch for us. At the end of the year, he clearly was one of our best players. Never forget him and it shows the power that a player actually possesses. Think about all the fun you can have looking out for the other guy and being on the team. I assure you someone will notice and they just might not ever forget.
Last edited by ClevelandDad
I have one son in his final year of college ball, one in his second.

The posts on here are truly dead-on, 100% correct. You can like 'em or dislike 'em, but print them off and save them, then come back to read them when your sons have been in college a couple years,and you'll see they were gospel correct.

One added bit of advice: if your spouse doesn't use the computer, and can't look up your college guys' stats on the internet, don't make the mistake of teaching them how. Roll Eyes
From truthorfiction.com ...

Bill Gates' High School Speech on The Eleven Rules of Life-Fiction!

Summary of the eRumor

Bill Gates spoke before a group of high school students and gave them his eleven rules of life.

The Truth

This is not from Bill Gates. It's an excerpt from the book "Dumbing Down our Kids" by educator Charles Sykes. It is a list of eleven things you did not learn in school and directed at high school and college grads.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway, thanks for the information. Either way I've never seen it before.
Stagedad,

How about the parents of kids who have watched them go from star of youth baseball - to toilet bowl - and then back again.

Do you think they might know a thing or two?


TPM - I thought that was really great insight - and I agree with what RJM posted about this generation of parents.

I think if you keep things as simple as you can - if you work really hard and play really hard whenever you get the chance - if you fight through the ups and downs with your head held up high - if you ignore the hype and the naysayers - and if you truly enjoy playing the game - you will have a good experience - regardless of the ultimate level you obtain or how others measure success.

I also think it helps alot if you can tactfully tell your parents to keep their mouths shut and act like adults and not like spoiled brats - if necessary.
Excellent advice from all the experienced parents. I'm going to print it up and give it to my son. Most importantly, I will memorize the advice for his upcoming college years(for me). I too have noticed alot of complaining parents on the site recently. Hopefully they will read TPM's advice and take it to heart.
Very good posts.

I think most of the time the parent is a lot more upset about the amount of playing time, or the batting order, or the stats, or whatever, than the player is. Often the player understands better WHY he is not playing, or is playing where he is. And the parent's first job should be to shut up and not make themselves and their son miserable. Second job is to watch the game, enjoy it, and applaud their son's team and teammates. Heck, go ahead and applaud a special play by the other team, too!

Just let your player play. It's the best game in the world.

Julie
Last edited by MN-Mom
I think (hope) that sometimes the complaints are contained to this board. Maybe some parents use this as a way to vent and voice frustrations, but they leave it here. In a way, this becomes a "therapy board" doesn't it?! For every upset parent on board, there are several who answer and say "I know what you are going through..." I think people just want to be heard and validated, even if they know they have to be quiet in real life and let the game play out.

A recent story from our family file:

We arrive at a game. Our sophomore son is usually the starting catcher (over a senior) but on this occasion senior is behind the plate and son is in left. This was also true of a previous game. My hubby's jaw gets a bit tight, and he mumbles to me "When did son lose the starting position?" (He'd never say this to son or coach, by the way.) I point out that son IS starting. Also that he understand the coach's dilemma: the last two teams are big hitters/slow runners, we have a young pitcher at the plate who will probably give up some deep hits to left, and the team's best option for left field control is our son. The senior behind the plate might give up a few more passed balls/bases, but a hole in left has cost us too many runs in previous games. Hubby immediately relaxes and says, "Oh! OK..." and sits down. Son comes in behind the plate after 4 innings (senior doesn't have endurance) in which we're holding at 1 run behind, and we fall back by 6 because of uncaught balls in left. <sigh> I actually wish son could have stayed in OF a little longer.

Sometimes the coach just has to figure out how to make the best of things.
Even things that seem to work against our sons in the beginning usually end up helping them in the long run.

Case in point: one of my son's teammates, a senior, received an 8.5 PG rating and throws in the upper-80's. The coach never uses him to pitch; he just plays outfield. What originally began as a pretty significant source of frustration for him and his parents has turned out to be a huge blessing -- he was recently recruited as a pitcher by a top Texas JUCO, whose coach is absolutely thrilled that his new signee will have a fresh arm come August.

My own son, who was recruited by several colleges as a middle-infielder, is playing third base this year. The only thing we've been able to figure is that maybe he had the strongest arm in the infield and the coach needed him there. Our son has never played third base in his life and really loves the middle-infield. But we are choosing to look at things positively, realizing he's getting the chance to master a new position. And by doing so, he is increasing his chances to start somewhere in the infield when he gets to college.
Last edited by Infield08
Playing time aside, are there any legitimate reasons any of can think of for a kid wanting to transfer? Some of you seem to think that there is no good reason and that it's the parent who's unhappy 100% of the time. Suppose a kid (and the parent if you must) are ok with the playing time that he's receiving but very unhappy about a coach's methods, philosophies, on and off field demeanor (closed minded, narrow-thinking, miserable, never smiling, never joking, never lightening up at all!), in-game decisions/coaching and overall baseball knowledge? What then? Should the kid not pursue another route? What if the kid comes to a parent out of the blue and explains these things and states to you "For the first time in my life, I'm not having fun playing baseball"? What then? And before all of you jump on the "well, if he's not enjoying it anymore maybe it's time to give it up" bandwagon, all I'll say is that that has been examined and is not the issue here. I'd be interested in knowing what you all think of a situation like that.
quote:
What if the kid comes to a parent out of the blue and explains these things and states to you "For the first time in my life, I'm not having fun playing baseball"? What then? And before all of you jump on the "well, if he's not enjoying it anymore maybe it's time to give it up" bandwagon, all I'll say is that that has been examined and is not the issue here. I'd be interested in knowing what you all think of a situation like that.
There are some legitimate reasons to transfer. But do most kids take the time to really think through their situations and address the issues with the proper people?

I don't believe this generation of kids is as mentally tough as previous generations. Our generation doesn't even approach our parents. We didn't deal with depression and world war.

This generation of kids is more likely to look for a place to assign blame and move on. In many cases this generation of parents have been enablers. Some kids can't look inward, come to the realization some of the problem is their fault and take responsibility for their actions.

Then there's that ever present helicopter hovering overhead at the ready to swoop in for the rescue.
Henry-

I offered the same question and this is some of what transpired.

by thats-a-balk
College is a business, period. They are there to make money just like any other business.
If you are unhappy at your business, not enough money, you look elsewhere. If you get tired of or don't like the line of work your in, you look elsewhere.
If a student does not like the education he is receiving or school he is attending, he changes schools or drops out. No different for an athlete. If he is disappointed in his lack of playing time, he has every right to transfer (with penalty). If a player is disappointed they cut his scholly money and it cost him more money to attend this business, he has every right to transfer (with penalty).

Each person including student and athlete is different, each situation is different. To use such a wide brush in painting athletes that transfer is just wrong and closed minded.

by YoungGunDad
I will say that I still don't agree even with college kids moving all over the place if they don't like their ___________ (fill in the blank(s). Seems to me that they should learn how to investigate things more in-depth before making a decision. A lot of headaches can be eliminated if this were taught better by parents and/or mentors. Yes, things change unexpectantly. Learn to suck it up and forge on..grow up.

by thats-a-balk!
Society is full suck it up people who were told to grow up and were afraid to make changes. Let the kid (in college) make his own decision on what he wants to do.

Alot of talking out of both sides of the mouth on this site. First it's keep Daddy out of it, let the kid handle his own issues from high school on. Then it's tell the kid to suck it up, grow up. You can mentor/educate but you can't have it both ways.

I will fill in the blanks-

I will support my son moving from one college to another if he doesn't feel he is getting the education he is paying for and deserves. Better than dropping out.
I will support my son moving from one college to another if he wants more playing time than he is receiving and still has that burning desire. Better than quiting all together.
I will support my son moving from one college to another if a coaching change occurs and he no longer feels comfortable with the new staff.

I have no son in college yet, but not one of these scenarios will ever cause me to tell my son to suck it up and grow up. If other opportunities are available and it will make my son a better student, athlete and person entering society, I'm all for it.

This is not an attack on you YoungGunDad, this is just my opinion and how I feel about these issues.

by YoungGunDad
The "fill in the blank" scenario's I speak of are these kinds:

I don't like my head coach. I wanna quit the team.

I don't like my teammates. They don't like me. I'm transferring.

I should be playing every day and not riding the pine. I'm going to the D3 school close to home next semester.

Balk, if your son wants more playing time, encourage him to work harder, get to practice early/stay late, etc. etc. First sign of trouble or unhappiness and calls home you're ready to help junior quit. Is this your advise for him from now on when things get tough? Quit? Whatever happened to the theory of out working someone to EARN the spot?

The 3rd one you mention is quite hilarious. Transfer because of a coaching change because he no longer "feels comfortable"? You're kidding, right? The only reason a kid would use this excuse is because the new coach(s) aren't playing him!

I was raised in an era when "The going gets tough, the tough get going." Not "throw in the towel because I haven't the fortitude" to stick it out.

Just as you mentioned when you finished, no attack on you Balk...but how I feel about these issues.

Nothing wrong with agreeing to disagree.


by thats-a-balk!
C'mon Young, get real.

What makes you think working harder, staying late, going early etc. etc. has not already been exercised?
You know, there are just some kids who are better than others and always will be. You make it sound as though transferring is the lowest form of shame and failure known to mankind! It happens everyday, are all these kids failures?

First sign of trouble? I didn't mention anything about trouble. Unhappiness? Sure, I hope my son and I have a close enough relationship where he seeks my advice when things are not going well. Please don't put words in my mouth or assume what I would tell my son. If you want to put a spin on it and use the word quit, go ahead.

I still use the theory of working hard and earn a spot, but at some point you have to make a common sense decision and decide if you would be better off elsewhere and admit the better man or athlete won. If not, you can waste four years, probably for most, your last four years not playing much. Again, it has nothing to do with not working hard or quiting, has to do with moving on to a better situation.

And last but not least, I don't see what you find so hilarious about a coaching change transfer.
I guess just a different sense of humor than me.
Most kids who make decisions on what schools they will attend have who the coach is pretty close to the top of their list. Why in the world would an athlete attend a University if they didn't feel comfortable with the coach. I don't think they would.
So again, don't assume or use such a broad brush when you say they only reason my son or any other kid would leave because of a coaching change is their not playing.

One last thing, your era is no different than mine, "The going gets tough, the tough get going".
The towels not being thrown in, the young man is still gonna "stick it out", same work ethic, same enthusiasm, same love for the game. The only thing that will change, is the scenery.

No quitter or failure in my eyes. Just a young man who wants to fulfill a dream and enhances his chances to do so!
He HAS taken responsibility for his actions by saying to himself "I believed the **** this coach spewed at me during recruitment and I think I've made a mistake here." He doesn't blame anyone but himself for not being more probing, more curious. He acknowledges that his biggest mistake was not talking to more rank and file players before signing on. He only spoke to players hand picked by the coach to guide the recruit. So he has taken responsibility and I resent that you assume he hasn't. And I guess you mean me when you call me the "helicopter". Yes, I'm going to try and help him be happy again, so sue me. What kind of a parent would turn his back on his kid and say "Oh well, you picked the school, you deal with it." And I do have a rooting interest in this in that I'm paying the tuition here. There's no scholarship involved. So why don't you now try and answer the question as asked. Is this specific situation a legitimate case for transfer. There isn't anything my kid can do to change the situation and by the way, about 90% of his teammates feel the same helplessness.
If there is a situation that is so intolerable, then transfer is in order.

But what is intolerable? In the years I have been posting here, I know of only 2 situations from websters where there was an intolerable situation, the rest was for more playing time, finances or homesick, or not doing well in class.

The advice I can give is DO YOU HOMEWORK when it comes to finding out about coaching presonalities. They've most likely done there homework on your son, do as much as you can on your end. We made phone calls to people that we knew regarding coaches before he committed. Friends, people who have know coaches for years, parents of players. You can get that info, just look in the media guide (most addresses and numbers listed) and make a random call to speak to parents. Have your sons do homework to find out if they know anyone who knows anyone from the team. Go to a game, a few games, watch the coach in a game and how he interacts with the other coaches, umpires, dugout. Body language is easy to figure out. Read up on the coach, where he was before, who played under him, how many years, winning or losing coach, etc. With the internet you can find out just by searching a bit.

All coaches just like each one of us have their quirks, strong points and weak points. If your son played in HS or a travel team where he was one of their favorites, that's not gonna happen in college. Coaches, IMO, no matter who they are or where your go, are not out to be your players best friend.
My son is very close with his former pitching coach and always will be, but they've had their moments, even so much as little conversation for days after son got his azz chewed several times over three years. The best part was every time that happened he improved so coach said "no problem I'll get on you for every little thing as long as you listen". I am not sure my son would be where he is if not for him. He may not have understood it at the time, but he did the day he was drafted. The funny part when he told us when he got his azz kicked, we agreed with the coach! Some other parent may have found him to be too hard on their player, but my son knows now that if a train came the coach would have stood in front of him. He lives his life for his players.

I saw a coach at a game once have a hissy and I said I would never let my son play for someone like that, yet I know players who adore him. He stands up for his players, may not be what we expect, but that's just the way he is, some like him, some don't.

Your sons will learn more lessons from the tougher coaches than the easy going ones, JMO.

Mine who had a great over all college experience called several times to tell us he didn't want to play anymore, it wasn't fun. We listened, never gave advice unless asked and in a few days it was over. This is normal. What many have to understand is that as they get older, the fun game now becomes hard work, dedication and in college or beyond a business. That's why I say have your sons play for the shear joy and pleasure as youngsters for as long as they can and give them no pressure about the game. Put away the guns, the video camara, that stuff can come later on. Some may say their sons love it, but they don't know better. As they get older plenty of radar guns will be pointing at them for more important reasons than, "how hard should my 12,13,14 year old be throwing".

I consider myself at times an enabler as a parent, most are. But there comes a time when you have to know when they truely need your help and when they can figure it out for themselves. The sooner you begin the process, the easier it is for your kids to grow up and make decsions on their own, without your help. You should only be there to listen, especially when they leave the nest.

I find it ironic that parents that don't like coaches attitudes towards sons (especially after a bad game whether it be individual or team) most likely read them the riot act when they were younger about a cr*ppy game. If your kids are still young, forget about it, go have some ice cream or a burger, because channces are they are gonna get it later on from someone when expectations and stakes are higher. Smile
Last edited by TPM
quote:
Although I feel there are some very caring supportive people, they have their opinions.
Seems like a lot of the newer posters get very taken back when someone responds with something they might not want to hear.

fanofgame,

I agree with most of what you said, but there is a big difference between "something you might not want to hear" and being negative. When someone comes on here seeking advice (especially newbies) the last thing they are looking for is the negativism. Give advice, but don't make the poster regret visiting this site.
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:

What kind of a parent would turn his back on his kid and say "Oh well, you picked the school, you deal with it." And I do have a rooting interest in this in that I'm paying the tuition here. There's no scholarship involved. So why don't you now try and answer the question as asked. Is this specific situation a legitimate case for transfer. There isn't anything my kid can do to change the situation and by the way, about 90% of his teammates feel the same helplessness.


I must be a bad parent, I would have told son, you made this decision now you make the most of it.

If you are paying the tuition YOU should have helped him.

It's not usuaul for most of the team to dislike the coach at times, especially if they are having a losing season. I know on son's team when coach wasn't happy, they banned together and PLAYED like animals to win, sometimes for coach to get off their backs. That meant extra time in the cages, better conditioning, asking more questions.

A winning coach (no you don't have to win every game) is a happy coach, remember that. The team shares much responsibility as to what goes on. It's up to the team to make sure that the coach stays happy. Big Grin
Henry,
I know you are new posting here. Ya gotta take the good info with the bad, the negative with the positive.
Sift through it & see what you can use, if
anything.

You asked:
quote:
So why don't you now try and answer the question as asked. Is this specific situation a legitimate case for transfer.


Go with your gut about your own personal situation and never let a message board make/break your decision. When you come to an open forum, you need to understand that you are going to get opinions from all across the spectrum & from multiple directions. Some might hit ya right between eyes, others will be far off.
Use what helps you.


~ Best of luck ~
Last edited by shortstopmom
quote:
Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
quote:
Although I feel there are some very caring supportive people, they have their opinions.
Seems like a lot of the newer posters get very taken back when someone responds with something they might not want to hear.

fanofgame,

I agree with most of what you said, but there is a big difference between "something you might not want to hear" and being negative. When someone comes on here seeking advice (especially newbies) the last thing they are looking for is the negativism. Give advice, but don't make the poster regret visiting this site.


TAB,
There may be some who are negative, ignore it, listen to the advice, move on and let's not highjack the thread. Wink
Last edited by TPM
quote:
What kind of a parent would turn his back on his kid and say "Oh well, you picked the school, you deal with it."


Ummm,...well, gotta admit, I am that kind of parent. If son regrets his decison at the college level and cant work through it, then son needs to figure out what he wants to do.
For what its worth, if he comes to me I am going to tell him what I have always told him: You dont solve problems by going around them. You solve problems by going through them.

quote:
unhappy about a coach's methods, philosophies, on and off field demeanor (closed minded, narrow-thinking, miserable, never smiling, never joking, never lightening up at all!), in-game decisions/coaching and overall baseball knowledge


I'm curious as to why this wasn't noticed before your son committed? Has the coach's personality changed just recently? If so, there could be legit reasons for it.

I agree with TPM's words:
quote:
Your sons will learn more lessons from the tougher coaches than the easy going ones,


I'm not sure what age your son is or what level college ball he is playing, but I do wish him good luck with his future.
Last edited by shortstopmom
ssm,
Good post, sounds like mine, you wann get together and have a cup of coffee. Big Grin

ssm sets a great example, I never heard any whinig from her and her son's path hasn't been easy!

Henry,
Some good points made here, remember we are only hearing one half of the story and not all of the details.
Henry ...

Welcome to the HSBBW. It seems like this might have been a tough thread to begin your first postings, as some of us oldtimers have pretty strong opinions about these issues ... especially if we have seen them or experienced them ourselves.

Hopefully personal feelings and/or preconceived notions don't cause those seeking advice to confuse 'something you don't want to hear' with negativism. I suspect that when we hear something we don't want to hear, we interpret it as negativism (quite often). If someone is expressing their opinion based on factors in their life (similar situation, years of experience, etc), and it differs from what you anticipated when you made your post, it is not necessarily negativism. It is (their) reality ... as they know it and have experienced it ... even if it isn't your reality. If you are treated respectfully when someone answers your question ... even if they don't agree with you or you don't like what they say ... I would hope that it should be enough and a simple "I don't happen to agree with you on this" is sufficient to get your point across.

As in many situations, IMHO, there is often a valid reason to change one's mind about a decision they have made. In this case, it is your son's decision to play baseball at a particular school, which he now regrets. It is a shame that he (and you) didn't see this in advance, but hopefully it can be remedied to everybody's satisfaction.

I agree with shortstopsmom on this (as I do on many of her very wise posts):
quote:
Go with your gut about your own personal situation and never let a message board make/break your decision. When you come to an open forum, you need to understand that you are going to get opinions from all across the spectrum & from multiple directions. Some might hit ya right between eyes, others will be far off.
Use what helps you.


PS ... TPM ... sorry if I pirated the thread further ... I will stop now

PPS ... While our son was in college, I learned that he made a special effort to get to know the coaches on a closer level ... he stopped by their offices AT LEAST ONCE A WEEK to just sit with them and chew the fat (old-timer term). They got to know him better as a person and he got to see them in a different light off the field. Some people considered it 'brown-nosing' but personally, I thought it was pretty clever. I have actually recommended this to other players and parents since then because I think it was beneficial to all ... it gave him a new perspective on the game as THEY saw it, and it gave them a new perspective on him ('cause they obviously didn't believe all the wonderful things I said about him LOL ).
Last edited by FutureBack.Mom
The problem is that today the kids do not want to "work thru" the difficulties. Ther majority are looking for the "easy" way out

I have always taught my kids to take care of business on your own, even at an early age--if it gets real "sticky" then come to me for help.

My son had both the recruiting coach and the Head Coach leave his school after three years for other positions--they, he and I are still in contact with each other and this is nearly ten years later---he made it all work, I didn't. All to his credit.
FBM,
The hijack comment was to TAB, who was getting into "negative" stuff, something I don't see in this thread. Wink

I think all advice and comments have been great!

I liked your comment about seeing it from the coaches side, that's an important point! I am not sure if players know what stuff they have to deal with on a day to day basis.

I remember the first few weeks son was into his freshman season, team was young and NOT doing well. He called us to tell us that he was on a losing team in HS and didn't want to play on a losing team in college maybe he made a wrong choice.

I remind him of that sometimes, he smiles. Smile
Last edited by TPM
quote:
Originally posted by TRhit:
The problem is that today the kids do not want to "work thru" the difficulties. Ther majority are looking for the "easy" way out

I have always taught my kids to take care of business on your own, even at an early age--if it gets real "sticky" then come to me for help.

My son had both the recruiting coach and the Head Coach leave his school after three years for other positions--they, he and I are still in contact with each other and this is nearly ten years later---he made it all work, I didn't. All to his credit.


Great post TR.

kinda reminds me of a quote I to use just recently about this same issue: When the going gets tough, the tough get going. It sounds like your son decided to get going and not up and quit. I'm sure he's a better young man today for it.
Henry-

As you can see, it's a decision you and your son needs to make. You have been given advice from both sides of the aisle, some say there is absolutely nothing wrong transferring if it makes your son happy and it brings better opportunities for him, and others will call you a quitter and looking for the easy way out.

Regardless of the advice you receive on this board, ultimately it's your families decision and one that you have to live with. I'm sure if you decide to transfer, you will be just as much a man as the one who didn't transfer.

Good luck!
Last edited by thats-a-balk!
Yeah Henry, just like TR said above, many are looking for the easy way out because it's the easiest thing to do and the way of quitters. They should be taught to work through their difficulties and learn self-fortitude, dedication, loyalty, determination, hard work, will power, devotion, etc. To learn these traits at a young age will catapult him through harder times when he gets older.

Throw in all the advise you have read on here into a big ole pot, stir it up, and I'm sure you will make a sound decision.
quote:
Originally posted by thats-a-balk!:
Henry-

As you can see, it's a decision you and your son needs to make. You have been given advice from both sides of the aisle, some say there is absolutely nothing wrong transferring if it makes your son happy and it brings better opportunities for him, and others will call you a quitter and looking for the easy way out.

Regardless of the advice you receive on this board, ultimately it's your families decision and one that you have to live with. I'm sure if you decide to transfer, you will be just as much a man as the one who didn't transfer.

Good luck!


TAB,
No one said he was a quitter. That's unfair. We don't know the whole stroy do we?
I used to feel the same way you did, once you have a player in college you might understand it's not an easy process and has to be thought out of very seriously and carefully. If the coach is one from h*ll that's a whole differnet issue, if that is really the way it is.

Henry, good luck to your player.
TPM-

This is the last I'm gonna comment on this subject and many others. I know you are well respected on this site and by me as well, but please, the insinuation here by some (not all) is exactly that.
If you cannot tough it out or suck it up and want to transfer well......read these quotes and spin'em any way you want!


kinda reminds me of a quote I to use just recently about this same issue: When the going gets tough, the tough get going. It sounds like your son decided to get going and not up and quit . I'm sure he's a better young man today for it.

Balk, if your son wants more playing time, encourage him to work harder, get to practice early/stay late, etc. etc. First sign of trouble or unhappiness and calls home you're ready to help junior quit .

Yeah Henry, just like TR said above, many are looking for the easy way out because it's the easiest thing to do and the way of quitters . They should be taught to work through their difficulties and learn self-fortitude, dedication, loyalty, determination, hard work, will power, devotion, etc. To learn these traits at a young age will catapult him through harder times when he gets older.
Last edited by thats-a-balk!
You all are paddling up stream. We are a society of taking the easy way out. Divorce rate is at an all time high and climbing. Most folks change jobs every 5-7 years. Credit card debt is astronomical. Coaches leave their schools readily, sometimes before the ink on the contract is dry.

Why would we expect anything else from the kids out there. I'm not saying everybody or anybody on this thread fits in the shoes above.

However, how can you pass judgement on a kid that wants to transfer for WHATEVER reason. His life right? Don't meddle, let them figure it out on their own right? Then tell them they don't have what it takes, need to work harder, aren't focusing on the reason for being there.

Perhaps we should start a parenting forum and stop all this baseball talk. It is just a game right?

Lord knows raising kids right is hard enough. I thought baseball was a pleasant break...now I know I was wrong. Baseball is way more serious than life.

That ought to get this thread going....Red Face)
quote:
how can you pass judgement on a kid that wants to transfer for WHATEVER reason


People give their opinions ( which is interpreted by some as " passing judgement " ) when other people bring it up on an open forum and either ask for advice or say, " Hey,..whatta ya think about this? ".


Baseball, as well as with any other sport or extra curricular activity, is intertwined with our daily life experiences. How one deals with those experiences helps to shape and mold an individual for the future,....and that goes for all parties involved, not just the athlete him/herself.
The parents, the other team mates, the coach's, the umpire, the innocent bystander, etc. are all affected.
It's a blip of life experience that can be tucked under our belts and the knowledge gained from these experiences can be used for future situations that come up.
Lessons learned. The good the bad the ugly, its all part of it.

quote:
Baseball is way more serious than life.


I like to think that if one applies the life lessons learned from baseball, it just may pave the way to make life ahead, a lil' easier. Smile
Last edited by shortstopmom
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
I'd be interested in knowing what you all think of a situation like that.


I do beleive that someone asked for an opinion, so therefore you most likely are going to get it, not necessarily what you might like to hear, maybe a lot what you want to hear, but if asked, you are going to get it.

Now if you come on and tell us that son is transfering because he was unhappy, I would say congratulations and best of luck.

This is a perfect example of what happens here, opinions are given, based primarily on those of past experience. It's been that way since I came to the HSBBW and will always remain the same. You read and use what you want or don't want.
quote:
Originally posted by Henry:
He HAS taken responsibility for his actions by saying to himself "I believed the **** this coach spewed at me during recruitment and I think I've made a mistake here." He doesn't blame anyone but himself for not being more probing, more curious. He acknowledges that his biggest mistake was not talking to more rank and file players before signing on. He only spoke to players hand picked by the coach to guide the recruit. So he has taken responsibility and I resent that you assume he hasn't. And I guess you mean me when you call me the "helicopter". Yes, I'm going to try and help him be happy again, so sue me. What kind of a parent would turn his back on his kid and say "Oh well, you picked the school, you deal with it." And I do have a rooting interest in this in that I'm paying the tuition here. There's no scholarship involved. So why don't you now try and answer the question as asked. Is this specific situation a legitimate case for transfer. There isn't anything my kid can do to change the situation and by the way, about 90% of his teammates feel the same helplessness.

Henry, I am not negative in the least about players transferring. My own son did it for very legitimate reasons and never regretted it. I've known many players to do so. I think my biggest concern is when a player transfers because mom and dad think he should. Mom and dad don't feel that superstar son is getting the time he should be, etc. I think it's up to us to support our kids and make sure they realize the pros and cons of any situation.

I had two kids (well, still have them!). One very athletic and sports skills came naturally to this one (oldest one). Then the younger one who never had any natural athletic ability. I can honestly say that the younger one feels she contributed as much to her teams as the older one. That is in large part I believe because of the lessons she saw with her older brother and that I always wanted him to know he was no different than the kid that cheered from the bench every game. I tried to teach them to do their best, to support all their team mates and to respect their coach. Those are things that the weakest player should be doing as well as the strongest. If a kid is truly a team player, he adjusts much better to whatever role he is given.

Obviously, there's always two sides to a player wanting to transfer. Kinda like a married couple that's getting a divorce. You hear each side of the fence and often the truth is sitting right in the middle. The only one that's responsible for a college player's future is himself. It's the first step in taking responsibility for their future. They are the ones that have to live with the decision one way or another. Hopefully regardless of what they choose, they'll learn lessons that will benefit them for the long term.
Some pretty passionate views from some on the transfer issue.
If I may, let me just add mine.

My wife and I have a wonderful son who we have raised for the better half of nineteen years. During those years part of parenting was to know when to let our son fail and when to prevent it from happening. The allowing it would make him a better and stronger person in the long run, and the preventing it would keep him from harm possibly physically and mentally in the short term.

Move forward a few years. When our son showed signs that he might have enough talent to play baseball beyond little league, I turned to this website for some advice. Not parenting advice, but baseball advice. There are hundreds of people here who can offer me outstanding advice on conditioning, on colleges and coaches, on recruiting and scholarships.
There are many who can pass along great advice about pitching and catching. A ton of this advice I have taken to heart, sent PM's asking for more in depth advice. All beneficial to my son.

The one thing that no one can do on this site is tell me what is best for my son. They cannot raise my son better than I can. Many on here can offer their experiences (which are greatly appreciated by the way) which can be very helpful.

Some here may feel that if you allow your son to transfer it shows a sign of weakness, or it's wrong because your not preparing him for future failures in life. You are allowing him to take the easy way out.
Those are all opinions and everyone is entitled to his own. But when you start labeling parents and or kids because they are making a decision based on their needs, wants, or any other reason is just simply wrong.

As I stated, we raised our son for the better part of nineteen years and feel we did a pretty darn good job at it (look at my profile). If I feel that my son transferring would be in his best interest, regardless of the reason, then that's what he will do. I have have enough confidence in my parenting ability to know that this will not keep him from learning the values of life.

Let me say this,
I can't promise you my son will ever be a hall of famer. I can't promise you that my son will ever be the president of the United States. But what I can promise you is regardless if my son transfers ten times or zero times. Regardless if my son plays every inning or zero innings, my son will never be considered a loser, quitter or weak. What he will be is a well educated, well respected, respectful outstanding contributor to society. As a parent, that's all I can ask of my son.

I hope I did not step on anyones toes, that was not my intent. Just remember, one size does not fit all.

From one former coach to the parents, read this site and absorb all the great baseball advice that is given.
From one parent to another, trust your parenting skills and do what you feel is right for you, your child and your family.
It is your decision and yours alone!
Last edited by Danny Boydston
TGUF,
Nice post.

However, I don't see anyone telling anyone how to be a parent. Everyone approaches things differently. What I do see today, IMO, is a child telling their parents they are unhappy on the field and then there's the let's fix it quick attitude so you can be happy again. There's a LOT of importance placed on college baseball because most players want to go farther and reality is, it doesn't happen often.
Lots of stories. Here's one. Player is a ERA starter leader in his very small conference and transfers to a larger conference with big expectations as a closer and can't get it done, unhappy at school, he doesn't play much, parents are furious, where he was a star he is now on the bench. They want him to start, that was not in the agreement. Player is drafted but not as high as the parents liked, they are furious with the coaching staff. It's their fault. I am not sure how he is doing in pro ball. Did they not realize their player just didn't do his part? It was someone elses fault.

For many it works out well, but the above is only ONE example of countless stories where parents are at fault but the program or the coaches. May not be in this case, but this is why I do post what I do sometimes.

The object is to think carefully about each decision, from transfering while in HS so your son can play, from your college choice, to going pro after HS, to transfering in college, etc. It doesn't matter why as long as you accept responsibility in who gets the blame. I am not looking at that player as a quitter, but have heard too much, it's the coaches fault stuff over teh past few years.
Theygrowupfast commented:
quote:
But when you start labeling parents and or kids because they are making a decision based on their needs, wants, or any other reason is just simply wrong.


I'm not sure who is labeling or where that happened. But I do know that if a person comes to an open forum and asks a question like:

Quote from Henry:
quote:
Playing time aside, are there any legitimate reasons any of can think of for a kid wanting to transfer? Some of you seem to think that there is no good reason and that it's the parent who's unhappy 100% of the time. Suppose a kid (and the parent if you must) are ok with the playing time that he's receiving but very unhappy about a coach's methods, philosophies, on and off field demeanor (closed minded, narrow-thinking, miserable, never smiling, never joking, never lightening up at all!), in-game decisions/coaching and overall baseball knowledge? What then? Should the kid not pursue another route? What if the kid comes to a parent out of the blue and explains these things and states to you "For the first time in my life, I'm not having fun playing baseball"? What then?


quote:
I'd be interested in knowing what you all think of a situation like that.


They leave themselves wide open for a vast amount of different opinions and when people give their opinions I dont happen to think they are wrong for doing so.

Theygrowupfast quote:
quote:
If I feel that my son transferring would be in his best interest, regardless of the reason, then that's what he will do.


I'm guessing you probably wont need to ask the rest of us for our opinions before you and your son make that decison either, right? Wink Big Grin

Before we all get bees in our bonnets, ( That saying makes me sound like I'm 90! tee-hee ) it is my belief that this post originated by TPM was done so with the intention of helping others.
There has been an overload of parents who seem very discontented recently and she reached out to help.

As Quillgirl suggested earlier, perhaps many use this forum to vent and I for one, think its good that there is a place to do that.
We all need a spot where we can bounce our ideas, thoughts, and opinions off one another. Doesn't mean we all have to agree.
Thank goodness we all don't think we know everything, cause if we did, there would be little conversation, we'd all be boring as heck, and darn wrong for sure! Big Grin
Last edited by shortstopmom
quote:
I'm not sure who is labeling or where that happened.


shortstopmom,

Let's just say you might say "Tomato" differently than I do. Wink

Along with TPM, I think most posters post with the intentions of helping others. I'm not gonna get in a tit for tat like some others have on this board and thread, I posted what I felt needed to be posted and how I felt some were using some words I disagreed with in their advice. No doubt in my mind they meant well, but as I read some of it, yes labeling would be a word I would use to describe it. This is my opinion and mine alone.

Yes shortstopmom, I will continue to seek advice from this site because as I stated earlier, I have received a ton of advice that has been beneficial to my son. I will also continue to offer my opinions where I feel they need to be expressed, because like you, I would hate for this board to become so boring I remove it from my favorites folder! angry Smile
Last edited by Danny Boydston

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